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An Ugly Attack on Mormons ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804

An Ugly Attack on Mormons

The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.

By Jonah Goldberg

Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wife’s purse and then the man’s wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughter’s piggy bank and pinch every penny. “We need it for the Wall Street bailout!” they exclaim.

No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?

No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. “Hi, we’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!” says the blond one with a toothy smile. “We’re here to take away your rights.” The Mormon zealots yank the couple’s wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, “That was too easy.” His smirking comrade replies, “Yeah, what should we ban next?” The voice-over implores viewers: “Say no to a church taking over your government.”

Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.

The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.

What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?


The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the “hard-hitting commercial” was too little, too late.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: christians; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; ldschurch; mormon; mormons; prop8; samesexmarriage
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To: DelphiUser

Thank you.

381 posted on 12/03/2008 5:31:54 PM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: broncobilly

Mormonism is not Biblical by any means. It’s not a matter of interpretation. They follow Joseph Smith and HIS version of the Bible, which is ungodly to say the least. They don’t believe in the Trinity either, from what I have gathered from remarks here. To them, Jesus is satan’s half-brother. Does that sound biblical to you?

382 posted on 12/03/2008 5:34:07 PM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

The truth is not “un-Christian.”

383 posted on 12/03/2008 5:34:42 PM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: netmilsmom

Well, I kinda figured she didn’t...

384 posted on 12/03/2008 5:35:09 PM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: svcw; DieHard the Hunter
DieHard: What if the Mormons are right? Wouldn’t that put you in an extremely perilous position?

svcw: Not really because they say after we die we get a second chance to believe.

Cough, um it's every one will get a chance, after death is only if you didn't have a chance to learn the truth here. By debating us, you kind of missed that boat. (just thought you ought to know.)
385 posted on 12/03/2008 5:35:32 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Osage Orange

thank you. I appreciate that. M

386 posted on 12/03/2008 5:36:03 PM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Elsie
Point to some HATE that we can see!

There truly are none so blind...
387 posted on 12/03/2008 5:36:33 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: SJackson

If we took the religious and homosexual aspect out of the debate, it’d be interesting to see how people feel about a lot of money coming from out of state that is targeted towards influencing another state’s proposition/elections.

388 posted on 12/03/2008 5:37:48 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: Elsie


389 posted on 12/03/2008 5:41:15 PM PST by lady lawyer
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To: DelphiUser

So you are saying that if I ask questions and don’t follow the lds chant I do not get another chance.
Huh? My uncle the bishop says all I have to do is be a good person and I’ll get a second chance.
Oh well.

390 posted on 12/03/2008 5:41:21 PM PST by svcw (Great selection of Christmas gift baskets:
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To: Elsie

Yes, and yes.

391 posted on 12/03/2008 5:41:46 PM PST by lady lawyer
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To: af_vet_rr
It would depend on the issue, gun rights, pro life advocacy, great. Amnesty, horrible. We're all hypocrites to some degree. Some more than others.

On the out of state issue though, while I see your point, national advocacy groups are a fact of life. If you tried to regulate them, they'd simply function through subsidiaries on a state level. Which most have anyway.

Better it's in the open, and if the gays want to criticize the LSD or Catholic Church, fine. If they're over the top, we can criticize them (when we can get a word in edgewise), when they interrupt services or trespass they should be arrested. And however unpopular it might be, the Churchs involved should be involved in prosecution.

392 posted on 12/03/2008 5:43:23 PM PST by SJackson (
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To: Publius804
From the original article in the LA Times:
“The artistic director of the California Musical Theatre resigned because of pressure after it was revealed he gave $1,000 to a pro-Proposition 8 group.”

I was once engaged to a nationally known violist. According to her, she was about the only non-queer member of the symphony.

Why the PervsR’Us crowd came to so dominates the arts scene has always escaped me. But, knowing what she told me, I can see why being discovered to have not supported the “Queer Qrowd” might make retention of a prominent position in the arts a wee bit of a problem.

393 posted on 12/03/2008 5:43:42 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: FormerLib

“What we are seeing after Proposition 8 is another thing entirely. This sounds like it’s building towards an anti-Mormon pogrom.”

Please! Do preface such posts with a keyboard alert.

Your post got me to thinking about what a war between the Mormons and the Poofters would look like. Too hilarious for words.

394 posted on 12/03/2008 5:51:34 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: SkyPilot; DelphiUser
First of all, I find it interesting that you point to one scripture, John 19:30 as the basis for your argument but yet don't address any of the scriptures I listed in re: to works.

You then state that we do not explain our beliefs & yet if anyone were to do a search on my posts, or Delphiuser, or most other Mormons that post here re: our beliefs, one would find your assertion to be quite erroneous. You then state that I call every critic a bigot or hater. Perhaps you can post excerpts of my posts where I call every critic a bigot or hater.

Lastly, I am an unapologetic defender of Mormonism & believe it is actually very logically defended. I would imagine you believe in your church & probably defend it vs. those not of your faith or beliefs as well. Not sure what your problem is there.

Your fallacious attacks on Joseph Smith have been gone over ad naseum here in prior threads as well as Delphiuser’s very cogent response in this thread.

I feel bad for the anger you have. It seems to virtually consume you. That's a shame. The liberals & MSM paint Christians as loons & zealots. With that being said, is it any wonder why when a minority of Christians here do the same thing to Mormons that they bemoan others do to them?

Again I would ask you, if you truly believe in your take on the scriptures, what makes your beliefs & interpretations right & others wrong? We're not the only Christians that have differences w/ your take. If you're correct, tell us why you're correct & why many others(i.e. non-Mormons)are wrong. If you choose to use the red herring that this is just a diversionary tactic, we will just conclude you don't have an answer.

Despite your angst against me & others here of my faith, I sincerely wish you the very best & hope you have a great Christmas season. It's a great time of year to reflect on all of our blessings & what Christ has done for all of us. You, me, & everyone. Cheers my FRiend.

395 posted on 12/03/2008 6:19:49 PM PST by Reno232
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To: Jibaholic
Deification was taught in the Bible
# Rom. 8:16-17
# Luke 6:40
# Heb. 12:23
# Gal. 4:7
# Matt. 5:48
# Psalm 82:5-6
# Rev. 3:21
# 2Pet. 1:4
# 2Cor. 3:18
# Acts 17:29
# 1Pet. 3:7
# Dan. 12:3

And by the early Christians:

Saint Irenaeus
- “Do we cast blame on him [God] because we were not made gods at our beginning, but first we were made men, then, in the end, gods?
- How then will any be a god, if he has not first been made a man?
- Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, of his boundless love, became what we are that he might make us what he himself is.”
(the above quotes taken from: Henry Bettenson, The Early Christian Fathers: A Selection from the Writings of the Fathers from St. Clement of Rome to St. Athanasius (London: Oxford University Press, 1956)

Clement of Alexandria
- “Yea, I say, the Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.”
Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks, 1.[
- “if one knows himself, he will know God, and knowing God will become like God. . . . His is beauty, true beauty, for it is God, and that man becomes a god, since God wills it.”
Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, 3.1 see also Clement, Stromateis, 23

Justin Martyr
- “[in the beginning men] were made like God, free from suffering and death,” and that they are thus “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest”
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 124.

Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria
- “The Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. . . . Just as the Lord, putting on the body, became a man, so also we men are both deified through his flesh, and henceforth inherit everlasting life.”
Athanasius, Against the Arians, 1.39, 3.39.
- “He became man that we might be made divine.”
Athanasius, On the Incarnation, 54.

Augustine of Hippo
- “But he himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. ‘For he has given them power to become the sons of God’ [John 1:12]. If then we have been made sons of god, we have also been made gods.”
Augustine, On the Psalms, 50:2.
Then you have more modern theologians teaching the same idea and acknowledging deification was part of early Christianity...

C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory
“It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship.”

C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him-for we can prevent Him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said”

Westminister Dictionary of Christian Theology:
Deification (Greek Theosis) is for orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is ‘made in the image and likeness of God’ is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become God by grace. This doctrine is based on many passages of both O.T. and N.T. (Psalms 82: (81) .6; 2 Peter 1:4), and it is essentially the teaching both of St. Paul, though he tends to use the language of filial adoption (Romans 8:9-17, Galatians 4:5-7) and the fourth gospel (John 17:21-23).

William R. Inge, Archbishop of Canterbury:
“God became man, that we might become God” was a commonplace of doctrinal theology at least until the time of Augustine, and that “deification holds a very large place in the writings of the fathers...We find it in Irenaeus as well as in Clement, in Athanasius as well in Gregory of Nysee. St. Augustine was no more afraid of deificari in Latin than Origen of apotheosis in Greek...To modern ears the word deification sounds not only strange but arrogant and shocking.

If you want to get the full reference for the quotes, they are at:

396 posted on 12/03/2008 6:36:57 PM PST by Reno232
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To: Marysecretary; Elsie; DelphiUser

> The truth is not “un-Christian.”

Good. Then you should have no difficulty at all with this “Truth”.

Mark 9

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Rather like the Mormons. Argue with Jesus if you like: He says that if they aren’t against Him, they are for Him.

Hey, I didn’t write the rules, I just try to obey them. Perhaps you may wish to do the same.

397 posted on 12/03/2008 6:48:05 PM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Reno232
First of all, I find it interesting that you point to one scripture, John 19:30 as the basis for your argument

I bet you do.

And you cannot answer it.

Can you?

What is the point of me even reading the rest of your rebuttal?

Typical Mormon response.

"We cannot respond via fact - so there is therefore something Wrong with You!"

Turn the Mirror Around.

398 posted on 12/03/2008 6:50:38 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: RobRoy; greyfoxx39
>>I, for one, doubt the rules would be relaxed in the case of a civil emergency.<<

I firmly agree. I think it is the main point of the things.

In fact there are even parts of the temple that take further rank to enter. I remember asking why all of us non-mormons were allowed in and although I don’t remember the specifics of the reason, it had to do with something of the lines of “it wasn’t officially a ‘temple’ yet”. It had to go through some sort of ceremony or something and was still “just a building”.

Temples are just a building until they are dedicated to the Lord. A Temple has many areas that are not "off limits" most have waiting rooms, cafeterias and laundry (usually in the basement) and in an emergency I am sure those would be the safest places and available.

Attributing base motives is not Christlike behavior.
399 posted on 12/03/2008 6:52:51 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Enosh
Delphiuser: “So stating that Jews are not people is not bashing Jews?”

Enosh: This is a dishonest distortion. Nobody ever said Mormons are not people. The argument is that they are not Christian.

Further, to say that a Jew is not a Christin is not only true, it is also not an insult. They don’t claim to be.

Jews say they are people, The Nazis said they were not. Mormons say they are Christian...

It seems a pretty clear comparison to me, but then Hey, I'm a Mormon and don't count.
400 posted on 12/03/2008 7:08:56 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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