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An Ugly Attack on Mormons
article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804

An Ugly Attack on Mormons

The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.

By Jonah Goldberg

Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wife’s purse and then the man’s wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughter’s piggy bank and pinch every penny. “We need it for the Wall Street bailout!” they exclaim.

No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?

No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. “Hi, we’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!” says the blond one with a toothy smile. “We’re here to take away your rights.” The Mormon zealots yank the couple’s wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, “That was too easy.” His smirking comrade replies, “Yeah, what should we ban next?” The voice-over implores viewers: “Say no to a church taking over your government.”

Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.

The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.

What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?

Nope.

The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the “hard-hitting commercial” was too little, too late.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: christians; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; ldschurch; mormon; mormons; prop8; samesexmarriage
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1 posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804
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To: Publius804

The Mormons have been pushed as far as they’re gonna go. Look at their cities. They’re fortresses.


2 posted on 12/03/2008 9:01:21 AM PST by gundog (When the SHTF, it will not be evenly distributed.)
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To: Publius804

I’ve been witness to plenty of Mormon bashers here on FR, and they sould be ashamed of themselves.


3 posted on 12/03/2008 9:02:10 AM PST by GVnana ("I once dressed as Tina Fey for Halloween." - Sarah Palin)
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To: Publius804

The title makes it seem that Goldberg is the one making an ugly attack on Mormons.


4 posted on 12/03/2008 9:02:22 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Publius804

Why would Jonah do that? Oh wait, you changed the title.


5 posted on 12/03/2008 9:02:27 AM PST by NonValueAdded (once you get to really know people, there are always better reasons than [race] for despising them.)
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To: gundog

The Mormons have been pushed as far as they’re gonna go. Look at their cities. They’re fortresses.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Where are these fortified Mormon cities? Perhaps if I knock they will let me and my family in and give us protection from the atheistic mobs that are now forming.


6 posted on 12/03/2008 9:04:18 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Publius804

the main difference is that the first two ads reflect reality.


7 posted on 12/03/2008 9:04:57 AM PST by rightwinggoth
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To: Publius804

Your headline blows.


8 posted on 12/03/2008 9:05:47 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: gundog
The Mormons have been pushed as far as they’re gonna go. Look at their cities. They’re fortresses.

Salt Lake City? Are there other fortresses I'm missing or are they camouflaged so I can't see them?

9 posted on 12/03/2008 9:05:55 AM PST by rhombus
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To: NonValueAdded; Publius804; samtheman

Removed ‘By Jonah Goldberg’ from title to avoid confusion


10 posted on 12/03/2008 9:06:10 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: NonValueAdded

Accidentally omitting a punctuation mark is NOT changing the title.

Relax, Francis.


11 posted on 12/03/2008 9:07:55 AM PST by Don W (To write with a broken pencil is pointless.)
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To: Don W

Wow...I didn’t realize the headline would cause such controversy. Next time I’ll make sure to watch my punctuation. Sorry for causing such outrage. :-)


12 posted on 12/03/2008 9:11:16 AM PST by Publius804 (Buckle up - with Obama at the controls it's gonna be a bumpy ride. God help us.)
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To: Don W

Don’t ever call me Francis, or I’ll kill you.


13 posted on 12/03/2008 9:11:27 AM PST by Cathy
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To: GVnana

Stating that Mormons are not real Christians is not the same thing as Mormon bashing, though there was some real Mormon bashing during the primaries.


14 posted on 12/03/2008 9:12:06 AM PST by Arguendo
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To: GVnana

Theological disputes are appropriate and expected in a free society.

This is simply hate.


15 posted on 12/03/2008 9:18:41 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Hate and fear. Staples of the left.


16 posted on 12/03/2008 9:25:01 AM PST by henkster (It's time for a conservative "long march through the institutions.")
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To: Don W

Don’t be the south end of Francis, Richard.


17 posted on 12/03/2008 9:25:18 AM PST by NonValueAdded (once you get to really know people, there are always better reasons than [race] for despising them.)
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To: gundog
The Mormons have been pushed as far as they’re gonna go. Look at their cities. They’re fortresses.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Several of my partners are Mormon, and I know they keep emergency supplies of food on hand (as should we all). And I think they are all gun owners or at least sympathetic.

But none of them live in a fortress, nor does any "Mormon city" I've ever seen look like a fortress. And I think there is a long ways to go before their good-natured tolerance is all used up.

Salt Lake City, by the way, is majority non-Mormon nowadays, with a really stupid and obnoxious liberal Dem for a mayor.

-ccm

18 posted on 12/03/2008 9:25:26 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: GVnana

>>I’ve been witness to plenty of Mormon bashers here on FR, and they sould be ashamed of themselves.<<

I’m Catholic and I have too.


19 posted on 12/03/2008 9:26:18 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Arguendo
> Stating that Mormons are not real Christians is not the same thing as Mormon bashing

Let's try it a different way, see how it looks:

"Stating that MormonsCatholics are not real Christians is not the same thing as MormonCatholic bashing..."

Or how 'bout:

"Stating that MormonsBaptists are not real Christians is not the same thing as MormonBaptist bashing..."

Ummmm... yeah it is. It is the same thing. And it is ugly and unbecoming of Christians. I think we ought to leave it to God to decide who is/isn't "Christian" and focus instead on working out our own Salvation with trembling and fear.

We each of us aren't that righteous...

20 posted on 12/03/2008 9:28:24 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: netmilsmom

I am ex-mormon, and I haven’t witnessed any.


21 posted on 12/03/2008 9:31:18 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: netmilsmom

I’ve seen lots of attacks on Roman Catholics, its sister Apostolic churches, Protestants, Mormons, and Jews of every type here on F.R. by various factions and back-and-forth.

That said, I saw too many Mormons confuse dislike of RINO Romney with “Mormon bashing.”


22 posted on 12/03/2008 9:31:25 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: GVnana

Most of us don’t bash Mormons themselves. It’s just when they try to say they’re a Christian organization that we get a bit testy. Mormons are fine people. They’re just off the bubble on their beliefs.


23 posted on 12/03/2008 9:32:30 AM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Publius804

bump for later


24 posted on 12/03/2008 9:32:33 AM PST by panaxanax ("Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't." T.Jefferson)
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To: Cathy

Wow, that’s a bit harsh. I hope you were just sarcastic, LOL.


25 posted on 12/03/2008 9:33:33 AM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: GVnana
>>”I’ve been witness to plenty of Mormon bashers here on FR, and they should be ashamed of themselves.”<<

Agreed, but they won't. They are filled with more hatred for Mormons than they are for the despicable acts of homosexuals.

26 posted on 12/03/2008 9:35:27 AM PST by panaxanax ("Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't." T.Jefferson)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Pointing out differences between what the Bible teaches and what certain churches teach is NOT bashing anyone. It’s TRYING to point out the truth of the scriptures verses the tradition of man. Truth does hurt at times and you do have to do it with love. But even when you do, people think it’s hate.


27 posted on 12/03/2008 9:36:43 AM PST by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: gundog
Mormons have cities?

Who knew!!

: )

28 posted on 12/03/2008 9:37:40 AM PST by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: ccmay

>>”....nor does any “Mormon city” I’ve ever seen look like a fortress.”<<

The best fortress is one that does not appear to be. Fear what you don’t see, not what is clearly visible.


29 posted on 12/03/2008 9:40:24 AM PST by panaxanax ("Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't." T.Jefferson)
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To: Marysecretary
You are correct...........

Nice post.........

30 posted on 12/03/2008 9:40:58 AM PST by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: rhombus

Ever been to Wales? Mantua? New Harmony or even Lund? Check out Eskdale, UT on google.

Maybe not a fortress, but in a predomanatly roadless area, with natural gravity fed water sources and farmland. And an attitude - not so much now, but it was stronger in the recent past.

You might wish to read the book “Folks of the Fringe” by Scott Card, a noted SF witer - a collention of shorts, it is an interesting read, to say the least.

A review from Amazon says, in part
“Only a few nuclear weapons fell. But in the chaos of famine and plague, there existed a few pockets of order. The strongest of them was the state of Deseret. The climate has changed, and the lake has filled up. There, on the fringes, brave, hardworking pioneers are making the desert bloom again.

I was stationed at Nellis for years and spent a lot of time in rural NV and on the border with UT. Those folks are country all right.

If you had to make a break from the big city because of a Depression, for example, I don’t know about you, but that is the part of the US that would not have food riots....

The Wastach Front is just another urban area, so we are in areement there.

For the fortress part, you have to check uot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah)
very much like the NORAD complex.


31 posted on 12/03/2008 9:43:36 AM PST by ASOC (This space could be employed, if I could only get a bailout...)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Yep! I always wondered who came down from heaven and gave these bigots disguised as Christians the right to proclaim who is and who isn't Christian.

That being said, I've heard Mormons also keep a year's supply of guns and ammunition on hand as well as food. I think everyone should do the same.

32 posted on 12/03/2008 9:45:36 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: Publius804

Ok, why are ldsers the most vulnerable? I just do not get that statement at all.


33 posted on 12/03/2008 9:47:12 AM PST by svcw (Great selection of Christmas gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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To: Publius804

I’ve never spoken to a Mormon who gave me any trouble.


34 posted on 12/03/2008 9:47:13 AM PST by onedoug
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To: colorcountry

Perhaps you didn’t go on the threads where it was.

In fact, for a time some Mormons and Catholics were calling each other to threads as examples of this. For a long time, I didn’t see it because I didn’t go onto Mormon threads. I happened onto one and was very surprised at the way they were treated.


35 posted on 12/03/2008 9:48:35 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

>>Ummmm... yeah it is. It is the same thing. And it is ugly and unbecoming of Christians. I think we ought to leave it to God to decide who is/isn’t “Christian” and focus instead on working out our own Salvation with trembling and fear.<<

THANK YOU!

Bears repeating! We have a much bigger enemy than each other.


36 posted on 12/03/2008 9:50:58 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: MeanWestTexan

>>I’ve seen lots of attacks on Roman Catholics, its sister Apostolic churches, Protestants, Mormons, and Jews of every type here on F.R. by various factions and back-and-forth.<<

Some you mentioned, yes.
Some you mentioned, fair game.


37 posted on 12/03/2008 9:53:02 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Ummmm... yeah it is. It is the same thing. And it is ugly and unbecoming of Christians. I think we ought to leave it to God to decide who is/isn't "Christian" and focus instead on working out our own Salvation with trembling and fear.

It is up to God to judge our hearts. But we have to settle our theological disputes here on earth. That was the motivation behind the Nicene Creed. Are we going to throw that away? Are we going to be silent while heresies pass themselves off as Christian? Of course not.

38 posted on 12/03/2008 9:53:34 AM PST by Jibaholic ("Those people who are not ruled by God will be ruled by tyrants." --William Penn)
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To: Marysecretary

Hi Mary!
That post from Cathy is a quote from the movie “Stripes”. I’m sure she didn’t really mean death.


39 posted on 12/03/2008 9:54:35 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Vigilanteman

St. Paul?

/ducking/


40 posted on 12/03/2008 9:54:51 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; GVnana; netmilsmom; Arguendo

Challenging Mormons on their theology is one thing (although such things have their correct place and time). I’ve certainly seen Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and various Protestant sects similarly challenged over in the Religion forum.

What we are seeing after Proposition 8 is another thing entirely. This sounds like it’s building towards an anti-Mormon pogrom.

So their going after the Mormon’s first this time, they’ll get around to the rest of us in good time.


41 posted on 12/03/2008 9:54:53 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: ASOC
"Ever been to Wales? Mantua? New Harmony or even Lund? Check out Eskdale, UT on google."

I've been to every single one of those towns, even considered "the enemy" in most of them. Was born and raised in a rural, exclusively Mormon, small Utah town - they aren't fortresses by any means.

42 posted on 12/03/2008 9:55:13 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Vigilanteman
Yep! I always wondered who came down from heaven and gave these bigots disguised as Christians the right to proclaim who is and who isn't Christian.

It is not bigotry to observe differences between different teachings, or to compare them to a standard - in this case, the Bible. Mormonism is dramatically different than Christianity (even in its disparate forms) in what it teaches about Jesus Christ and the trinity, heaven, hell, salvation, the Devil, justification, atonement, sanctification, etc., etc., etc.

Ultimately it will be God who determines who is a Christian (i.e., who is saved by faith in the atoning work of Christ). But it is not difficult to study what Mormons believe and see that it does not agree with the Bible (by itself) and Christian doctrine. It is not 'bashing' to point these simple facts out. I have a good opinion of every Mormon I've ever met, as a person, but if they hold to their religion they are going to Hell. :-(

43 posted on 12/03/2008 9:56:20 AM PST by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: gundog
The Mormons have been pushed as far as they’re gonna go. Look at their cities. They’re fortresses.

I think that is a false perception. The cities around the Salt Lake region are built on high ground because the area immediately around the lake was/is marshy, swampy land. The is also a problem with the dams above the lake. A moderate earthquake above Provo could easily compromise the dams and inundate the homes built near the level of the lake shore.

LDS families who have followed church recommendations are well prepared for emergencies with sufficient food and supplies. That may give the appearance of being "fortified" for an assault. It's not. It's being prepared for unemployment or emergencies.

The calls for a boycott of Utah by the homosexual lobby means more room for others to patronize the resorts and ski slopes. There's always more demand than capacity.

44 posted on 12/03/2008 9:56:59 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Jibaholic

>>But we have to settle our theological disputes here on earth. That was the motivation behind the Nicene Creed. <<

Um, where is it in the Nicene Creed that we have to insult and berate those that do not share our doctrinal beliefs?

I recite the Creed every Sunday. I remember the words “I believe....” not “You must believe....’

Guide and teach not slash and burn.


45 posted on 12/03/2008 9:57:12 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: netmilsmom
Perhaps you didn’t go on the threads where it was.

I doubt it since I am one of the most outspoken critics of Mormon theology on this board. I've been on both sides of this issue and no one has ever threatened or persecuted a Mormon on this site. Questioned the claims of Mormonism? Well, yes certainly - that happens all the time.

46 posted on 12/03/2008 9:58:32 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Publius804; DelphiUser; sevenbak; tantiboh; Reagan Man; Zakeet; netmilsmom; MeanWestTexan; ...
When Jonah makes a comment like the following, it is clear that he does not fully comprehend the issue nor the place that sacred marriage has in the Mormon faith which is so completely about god-fearing families:

"My own view is that gay marriage is likely inevitable and won’t be nearly the disaster many of my fellow conservatives fear it will be."

Sexual degenerates militantly scrimmage for absolute acceptance as 'normal' because they know they are not, and they have no fear of God nor true comprehension of what FAMILY is nor by whom or where the institution was established.

If Americans want sexual degenerates to have civil unions codified in law, it should be put to a vote. But same sex couples can never meet the fundamental definition of marriage nor legitimately bow there knees before the founder of the institution in order to make sacred vows. Mormons can. End of debate ... sexual degenerates, because they are sick in soul, cannot help but be infuriated when their degeneracy is exposed as the spiritual disease it is and the glaring contrast is most obvious with the issue of marriage.

I wonder, do ya think the degenerates are so dead of soul that they cannot grasp that their machinations cannot and will not force God to sanction their degeneracy? Oh, to be sure, society can, with civil unions. But they are spiritually diseased and they cannot force God to bless their diseased state.

47 posted on 12/03/2008 9:58:37 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Cathy
Lighten up, Francis.


48 posted on 12/03/2008 9:58:46 AM PST by Travis T. OJustice (Change is not a destination, just as hope is not a strategy.)
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To: colorcountry

Coming from you, that is the most funny thing I’ve seen so far today.


49 posted on 12/03/2008 9:58:49 AM PST by broncobilly
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To: ASOC

Thanks for the update. I don’t expect it’s just Mormons who are “hunkering down”.


50 posted on 12/03/2008 9:59:33 AM PST by rhombus
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