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Skip to comments.An Ugly Attack on Mormons
Posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804
An Ugly Attack on Mormons
The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.
By Jonah Goldberg
Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wifes purse and then the mans wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughters piggy bank and pinch every penny. We need it for the Wall Street bailout! they exclaim.
No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?
No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. Hi, were from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! says the blond one with a toothy smile. Were here to take away your rights. The Mormon zealots yank the couples wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.
As the thugs leave, one says to the other, That was too easy. His smirking comrade replies, Yeah, what should we ban next? The voice-over implores viewers: Say no to a church taking over your government.
Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.
The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.
What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?
The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the hard-hitting commercial was too little, too late.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
Coming from you, it is a compliment. :)
>>Questioned the claims of Mormonism? Well, yes certainly - that happens all the time. <<
Well then maybe you’re not part of the solution.
> Pointing out differences between what the Bible teaches and what certain churches teach is NOT bashing anyone.
No, but claiming that Mormons aren’t “Christian” IS Mormon-bashing. It is unkind, unnecessary and un-Christian. We oughtn’t to do it.
Perhaps, nor are you?
As a fundamentalist church-raised Baptist, I give a hearty AMEN to the above statement.
Ohhhh, many Freepers won't admit it .... but then how do you explain the fact that many (Republicans) supported "liberal flip-flopper" McCain (open borders amnesty, no on Bush tax cuts, close Guantanamo, America's criminal torture vote, Global Warming psychobabble, carbon tax, blames corporations) yet were over the top hateful toward Romney the Mormon.
Romney SUPPORTED and PROMOTED conservatism with dignity and enthusiasm..... yet many were obsessed with some stupid 3-second comment about homo's Romney made 20 years ago.... or because Romney's conversion to ProLife didn't meet their perfect approval.
McCain was absolutely the worst possible candidate for the Republicans in 2008 --- geeky, irritating, vindictive, frumpy, Washington insider for 35 years, hates religious conservatives, etc etc.
Romney supporters like myself did not back Romney because we thought Romney was 100% perfect about everything.
Far from it.
But he was the only candidate who stood a chance due to his relative youth, poise, grace, articulation, intellect, and he LOOKED and SOUNDED presidential.....
Which after all, is a largely why Obama won.
Even I, a staunch conservative, born again GOP committeeman could not stomach the thought of hearing a lackluster word-fumbler like McCain the next four years.
Hey, flame away. It doesn't matter now.
There was a reason that almost every thinking conservative in America (Hannity, Limbaugh, Hewitt, Coulter, Weyrich, Rich Lowrey, Rick Santorum, Tom Tancredo, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham) endorsed and begged people to nominate Romney.... and not McCain.
And it had nothing to do with Mormon. It was because people could actually envision Romney as President.
Me and many others (obviously) could not envision McCain stutter-stepping and fumbling around Air Force One or the White House even as his health got worse due to the pressure of being POTUS.
Tough words? Yes, but an honest assessment.
>>Perhaps, nor are you?<<
Perhaps. But some of us flock to threads to berate the posters there. Some defend them, some are them.
When it comes to Catholics, I am one of the defenders.
When it comes to others, I try to do the same.
Our Lord is the final judge. No earthly being.
How in the world did you get into Eskdale?
I couldn’t get past the gate...
God bless the Mormons. They are the only ones willing to take on the Sodomites.
We’ve shown the gays tolerance. That isn’t good enough. They have their bathhouses and their diseases. They want to marry and adopt kids. We have taken votes on it. When they lose, they get violent or go to the courts and have the people’s will overturned.
The Mormons have immense courage and I applaud them. Almost no church will stand up to the homosexuals anymore. They should be absolutely praised for their willingness to stand against this evil.
I have to concur.
They have given me a whole lot of pamphlets, though. But that's not even close to the same thing.
It’s not what you know, but who. I am a frequent visitor of Gandy, Utah. Google it.
The flaw in that thinking is that intelligent, honest people differ in their interpretation of the Bible. For example, some can not find the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. Does that mean that anyone believing in the Trinity is not a Christian?
Why is it so hard for some people to have a little bit of intellectual humility? They can’t seem to fathom the difference between their particular opinion and absolute reality.
But don’t the Mormons promote the idea that the entire Christian faith fell into heresy shortly after the passing of the Apostles and that it wasn’t restored until Joseph Smith came along.
In short, do they consider any non-Mormons to be Christians in light of that teaching?
> That was the motivation behind the Nicene Creed. Are we going to throw that away? Are we going to be silent while heresies pass themselves off as Christian? Of course not.
There be dragons there, in that line of reasoning.
There are some Christian denominations that believe the Nicene Creed to be a heresy and the beginning of Apostasy for the “true” Christian faith. And they believe that they can prove it, every bit as much as you believe you can prove your viewpoint, from the Bible.
That kind of back-and-forth sniping is surely not the best way for Christians to behave in these, the Last Days? Enemies on all sides — real heresies like islam and marxism and atheism and all manner of satan worship — and like typical Christians we’re going to argue over who is more Christian than who?
What shameful bloody nonsense! “Will I find the Faith on the Earth?” becomes a very valid question. Who knows?
It doesn't. Hatred is bad. Religious relativism is also bad.
I disagree completely. Paul may not have written out a creedal statement, but he spent his career both spreading the faith and fighting heresies. We should do no less.
> In short, do they consider any non-Mormons to be Christians in light of that teaching?
I have no idea what Mormon thought on that is, as I am not a Mormon. There are dozens of ‘em on the FRee Republic tho’, perhaps one will enlighten us.
> I disagree completely. Paul may not have written out a creedal statement, but he spent his career both spreading the faith and fighting heresies. We should do no less.
And there are Christians who believe that St Paul did not work by Inspiration, but rather spent his career spreading heresies.
They have a name for such heretics. They are called “mormons.”
And who gave you the right to make the Nicean Creed the definition of what it means to be a Christian.
The Nicean Creed is essentially the restatement of belief in God using the concepts of Neoplatonic realism. Is Neoplatonic realism, concepts not found in the Bible, that important?
>>We should do no less. <<
There is a huge difference between constantly showing how you are right and constantly telling a person they are wrong.
I dabbled in other religions for a while. The one thing that brought me back “Home to Rome” was the haughty elitist attitude of some of the “Christians” towards Catholics. Catholics were spoken of as evil or stupid. That is not how we should treat each other.
A dear friend of mine came into the Catholic church and asked why we did not evangilize as his old church did. We don’t get in anyone’s face. We live our faith and will tell anyone that asks.
Beating people on the head with your faith will get you really far. /s/
I was wondering just what kind of “Christian” DieHard was referring to, who thinks the Apostle Paul was a heretic.
Up is down, down is up - topsy-turvy thinking right there!
>>They have a name for such heretics. They are called mormons.<<
Are you a Christian?
Oh please. You do not have to apply ancient Greek metaphysics to get the trinity and other doctrines out of the bible. Just read the Gospel of John. It makes the divinity of Christ abundantly clear. Mormonism is a racist and sexist heresy.
Do you believe a Christian could possibly think that St. Paul was a heretic?
If so, what is your definition of Christian?
No kidding! I’ve had some pretty heated theological debates with Catholics about the chair of Peter and whatnot. Perhaps God allowed Mormonism to make us appreciate just how much we do have in common.
Just so. And I thought finding Ibex Wells was a big deal.
>>Do you believe a Christian could possibly think that St. Paul was a heretic?<<
Maybe you should ask Diehard that question. You might be surprised at the answer.
I will tell you this, Diehard’s replies on this thread are some of the most Christian here.
> They have a name for such heretics. They are called mormons.
If you believe calling Mormons ugly names helps you in your Christian walk, then best of luck to you.
I do not see how namecalling could possibly help you persuade Mormons to accept Jesus the “right” way: indeed, it is sure to alienate them and turn them against your brand of Christianity — perhaps that’s a good thing.
If you believe God gives you sanction and license to turn people against Him, then FRiend I believe you probably have a nasty surprise coming.
Recall, if you will, the Prodigal Son. Or the parable of the Lost Sheep.
PRinting quotes from their Founder and subsequent Leaders?
Printing things that their publishing house has issued?
Not saying nice things about Mitt?
Well, I’m more interested in your opinion as a Catholic.
Hyperbolic mindreader alert!
Actually, the Nicene Creed does say you “must believe.” It says unless you believe it you cannot be saved, but will perish everlatingly.
Ya gotta attract attention.
If you don't draw "Mormon Bashers" into your thread; it dies a wimpy death...
Milk Before Meat.
I do not see how namecalling could possibly help you persuade Mormons to accept Jesus the right way:
I think you have internalized some of the relativistic worldview that is common in liberal circles. Saying "X is true and Y is false" is not name-calling. Heresy is just a theological term for false doctrine.
Oh, and I am the prodigal son. I was an atheist for the first 32 years of my life. I provided the sin, God provided the grace that brought me back to Him.
> That being said, I’ve heard Mormons also keep a year’s supply of guns and ammunition on hand as well as food. I think everyone should do the same.
There are a huge number of Mormons in the South Pacific. They are known for their generosity and providence, for raising well-mannered children and for being law-abiding good Citizens.
I could well believe that they keep a year’s supply in case of hard times: it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
If these Mormons are “heretics” then every community could do with a good measure of their brand of “heresy”.
The only city in this country that I've visited that might be described as a fortress is Yorktown, Va., which is surrounded by fortifications built by the Confederates. However, it doesn't seem to be a Mormon city. There are Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Roman Catholic, and non-denominational Protestant churches in town, but no Mormon houses of worship.
Wrong on all counts!
Before making similar statements in the future, you should consider the following facts:
FIRST: MORMONISM IS NOT CHRISTIAN BECAUSE IT REJECTS MANY ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES
I suggest you check out the article: We're Christians just like you! wherein the author presents a number of well-annotated examples.
If necessary, dozens of additional articles and illustrations can be found on this WEBSITE alone.
SECOND: THE MORMON CHURCH UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY
And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11If still not convinced, you can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE and HERE.
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) and which I should join. I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of them Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20
Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167
The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171
Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable but with the Bible it was not and is not so it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ."No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
THIRD: THE MORMON CHURCH ITSELF REJECTS CHRISTIANITY
Beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormon prophets have steadfastly proclaimed all Christian denominations were in a state of apostasy.
This raises an interesting question. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can be something you have completely dismissed? How does that work?
FINALLY, the above response is typical of the types of replies given by myself and other so-called anti-Mormons in response to claims made by Latter-day Saints pertaining to my religious faith. For the benefit of all of us Evil Inmans, would you please review the above response and point out exactly what part of it is unkind, unnecessary and/or un-Christian?
>>Well, Im more interested in your opinion as a Catholic.<<
As a Catholic, I believe as the Vatican does...From CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.
So you see, the Devil is in the Details. It is not for me to judge who Our Lord feels is Christian. It is in a person’s heart.
> Saying “X is true and Y is false” is not name-calling. Heresy is just a theological term for false doctrine.
“Heretic”, tho’, personalizes the term. “Heretic” is a pejorative name and a label. If you called me a “heretic” I would be deeply offended. If I called you a “heretic” you would be deeply offended — and rightly so.
Don’t mince with words! You know jolly well it isn’t a nice thing to call anyone.
> I think you have internalized some of the relativistic worldview that is common in liberal circles.
I don’t think I have at all: particularly as I do not move in liberal circles.
> Oh, and I am the prodigal son. I was an atheist for the first 32 years of my life. I provided the sin, God provided the grace that brought me back to Him.
Praise God that He found you. Now, as you are the Prodigal Son, surely you should know better. Had Christians gone out of their way to label you as a “Wicked Dam’ned Unrepentent Sinner Wallowing in Sin” (as all atheists are) how likely would you have been to want to become a Christian?
Like the UNseen Mormon Temple Rites®?
An interesting opinion, dramatically laid out in pretty colors and bold type.
Maybe we are reading a different Nicene Creed.
This is the one at Holy Mass on Sunday from my memory.
I believe in God the Father almighty
Creator of Heaven and Earth
I believe in Jesus Christ His only son
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit
Born of the Virgin Mary
Suffered under Pontius Pilot
Was Crucified, died and was buried
He decended into Hell
On the third day He arose again from the dead
He asended into Heaven
And is seated at the right hand of God
The Father almighty
He shall come again to judge the living and the dead
I believe in the Holy Spirit
The Holy Catholic Church
The communion of saints
The forgiveness of sins
The resurection of the body
And life ever lasting
I live in Mesa, AZ. Definitely not a fortress. We have a ton of illegals coming in.
No, it isn’t a heart issue. It was laid out to you that a supposed “Christian” believed St. Paul was a heretic. You haven’t clearly stated what the Catholic position would be regarding such a person.
You might want to check out your own religions “bashing” of Mormon doctrinal beliefs. Ms. Pot.
> I’m sorry; but as a CHRISTIAN, I do NOT have that option.
Actually, as a CHRISTIAN, you don’t have a choice but to leave it to God to decide who is/isn’t a Christian:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Matthew 7 (again):
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This is a simple fact, EWTN is not the Vatican.
This document overrides any history found on EWTN’s website. Mother Angelica, Lord Love her is not the Pope.
Sorry, missed the link on the document from the Vatican
What if the Mormons are right? Wouldn’t that put you in an extremely perilous position?
Okay then, from the Vatican (those infamous Mormon bashers) < /sarc>