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Skip to comments.An Ugly Attack on Mormons
Posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804
An Ugly Attack on Mormons
The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.
By Jonah Goldberg
Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wifes purse and then the mans wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughters piggy bank and pinch every penny. We need it for the Wall Street bailout! they exclaim.
No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?
No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. Hi, were from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! says the blond one with a toothy smile. Were here to take away your rights. The Mormon zealots yank the couples wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.
As the thugs leave, one says to the other, That was too easy. His smirking comrade replies, Yeah, what should we ban next? The voice-over implores viewers: Say no to a church taking over your government.
Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.
The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.
What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?
The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the hard-hitting commercial was too little, too late.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
Defend your HONOR! Gentile WOMAN!!
Let me try...
Delfi will type - I said - You said - soon!
Translation: We should only bash Mormons, and not let the light shine on the hypocrisy of the rest of us and some of the disgusting past of YOUR own religions.
Must be nice in a world torn apart by extremists who want to kill us that some of you can only go after Mormons DAY AFTER DAY. It's getting OLD. What the hell are you afraid of, that they might have some food stored?
Note that this is one place where Satan actually told the truth to sneak in the lie about not dying. The sin was disobedience not wanting to be like God we are commanded to emulate him.
Ah, but disobedience of what? Original sin goes deeper than eating a piece of fruit. The sin was pride: wanting to be like God. Eve didn't want the fruit; she wanted to be like God.
No, it's U said
You’ve probably seen many times when I TRIED to get it, but someone else managed to slip in on me.
Nah... we don't read 'em either; but prefer to get out stuff directly from things that LDS, Inc. SLC, has published.
And yet, THEY keep coming back for more!!
Talk about a target rich environment!
There ya go!
I tried, but couldn’t!
I guess I need a bigger hat!
I’ve heard it said that you are ALL hat and no cattle. lol...
It is polite for you to make fun of my intellect, but calling you pansy is persecution? ....rrright!!
You are entertaining, if nothing else, DU (or is it AND nothing else.)
Ex. 24: 7 took the book of the covenant.
Num. 21: 14 book of the wars of the Lord.
Josh. 10: 13 (2 Sam. 1: 18) book of Jasher.
1 Sam. 10: 25 Samuel . . . wrote it in a book.
1 Kgs. 11: 41 book of the acts of Solomon.
1 Chr. 29: 29 book of Samuel the seer.
2 Chr. 9: 29 book of Nathan the prophet.
2 Chr. 12: 15 book of Shemaiah the prophet.
2 Chr. 13: 22 acts of Abijah . . . in the story of the prophet Iddo.
2 Chr. 20: 34 book of Jehu.
2 Chr. 33: 19 written among the sayings of the seers.
Matt. 2: 23 spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
1 Cor. 5: 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle.
Eph. 3: 3 as I wrote afore in few words.
Col. 4: 16 read the epistle from Laodicea.
Jude 1: 3 when I gave all diligence to write unto you.
Jude 1: 14 Enoch also . . . prophesied of these.
Just as the writings of your prophets in the Journal of Discourses is not considered scripture, these books mentioned in the Bible are not scripture, but deserved mention in God's Word
. Do YOU believe God had his hand in the creation of the Bible. If so, don't you think what He wanted to include is included.....or do you think the Bible is simply a creation of men who had apostacized, and if so, why believe in anything the Bible says at all?
I hope you are doing well and that your plans for Christmas’s are merry and smooth.”
Very well, Dephi, thank you. Have a blessed Christmas!
Listen, if I had meant this the way you interpreted it, (and then you could have chastised me for it), it would have come out as "everybody will have their own planet." (I didn't say that...'cause I know LDS don't believe that)
I specificially said "kingdom" -- as in "degrees thereof":
From the official LDS Web site: Telestial Kingdom: The lowest of the three degrees or kingdoms of glory in heaven. The scriptures compare the glory of the telestial kingdom to the glory of the stars.
So, here even your own church body compares the (made-up) "telestial kingdom" to stars plural, yet you "bop" me as being "ignorant." I ask you, if I said, "When you go home at night..." (even if you rent), do you respond, "It's not my own home?" (No) People consider where they live as their "own" home -- even if they are renters. If they do that now, how much more so re: their after-life residence?
Titus 1:16...in works they deny him
Let me ask you something: If you are married (or plan on getting married), did a laundry list of good works justify yourself as the one to marry to your spouse? (Was "good works" the primary quality that your spouse saw in you as being marriage-able...or if it hasn't happened, yet, is this what you think single women (assuming you're a man) are looking for in a partner?
In both passages you cited, Titus 1:16 and in Matt. 25, the works done by men either denied God as their Lord, (in Matthew 25, it was denial by omission). In Titus 1:16, what were they guilty of? (being abominable, and disobedient...) Now, apply that to a man who is, say, living with a woman, "pretending" to be her "husband." Let's say this "cohabiter" is both abominable and unfaithful. Does not his unfaithfulness alone disqualify him as being a "husband?" -- even if they were married?
You see, it wasn't his "good works" or even his "faithfulness" that qualified him as being her husband. (After all, I said he was her "cohabiter" -- but being a faithful cohabiter doesn't make you "married")
You see, works justify our faith just as intercourse consummates our marriage. In other words, our faith gives us the RIGHT to accomplish godly works in His strength. (And the Holy Spirit living in us, His temple, gives us the power/energy).
Works no more procure faith or salvific faith anymore than intercourse procures marriage. In fact, the act without a proper relationship is rejected by God! Yet, historically, LDS advocate salvation by works (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 134).
Even the Book of Mormon shows very clearly that works do not save (2 Nephi 2:4; 26:25, 27; Ether 12:8,33).
And this has been long the message of the Bible: John 6:28-29; Rom. 3:28. Are we justified in God's eyes via works of the law? Paul says "no" (Gal. 5:4; Rom. 3:20; 1 Cor. 6:11).
As for Matthew 25, you assume that it was only their good works or lack of them that shaped them into "goats" and "sheep." (May I suggest another way of looking at that?) The sheep did was they did because they belonged to the Shepherd's fold, heard His voice, followed His lead, and fed and clothed and visited as He led them. In other words, they were already sheep! The goats, on the other hand, were fiercely independent -- as goats are -- ate what they wanted, and heard no voice to follow. Goats acted goat-like because they were...well, goats.
Whatever we were created as, we follow that nature (goats). Whatever we were re-created as, we follow that supernature (Sheep). Goats aren't goats because they act in a goat-like way; they are goatlike because they are goats. (The same with sheep). You keep putting the attention on the outward behavior; but the way we behave is tied to who we ARE inwardly! (by nature, and by a new nature)
In flocks & folds, goats in Jesus' day mixed in with the sheep. Now I suppose a goat might have thought they were just as sheepish as the rest, but goatlike behavior would give such pretension away.
Finally, while you keep saying I'm not dealing with good works in my response posts, I have repeatedly done so -- ultimately, because you cannot separate "works" from God's grace. Let me give you the best Scriptural example:
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (John 6:28)
Reno, you can't get any better "works" going than work[in'] the works of God, can you? (No!) They were askin' Jesus, "Bro, how can we get doin' what God's doin' so that we might work His work?"
Now how did Jesus respond? Did He give them all the things you'll find on a temple recommend list that your bishop goes over with ya? (No)
Verse 29: Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Believe in Me. That's it. Not only that, He went even much further. Jesus didn't say, "Do this work: Believe in Me." He said even this belief wasn't man's work, but rather it was God's work!!! (Later in this chapter, John 6:44, He said that no man could come to the Father unless the Father drew him...only sheep would hear his voice and be so drawn).
The sixth chapter of this book isn't the only important sixth chapter in the NT. Another one is Romans 6. So before I cite one verse from there, I want to wish you and other LDS a very merry Christmas...and as I do this, my wish and prayer for you is that you would consider all your past Christmases.
Think of your parents.
Think of you yourself if you are one.
Think of the gifts given, and how love and grace were the only motivators of parents.
No strings attached.
No expectations of tit-for-tat returns.
No laundry list of "good works" necessary to be accepted as children.
Think of the sheer purity they/you have had in giving these gifts.
Now just apply that same purity, love and grace to our Heavenly Father as you read this verse:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
Merry Christmas, Reno! Merry Christmas, LDSaints -- God loves you just as you are, accepts you just as you are, gives you eternal life now just as you are, relates to you just as you are...and out of your sheer (future) returned love for Him -- no "merit" points, no "worthiness" bonuses, no temple recommend checklist -- you return that love in the form of "good works" and obedience...just as you would act for your spouse. We do love-based good things for our spouse because we are married; we don't do them to be accepted by him/her.
And the Bible consistenly points to our relationship with the Lamb...from Isaiah to the gospels to the Corinthians to Revelation...as one of a Bridegroom of the Lamb wed to His bride, the church.
“Let’s see if we can steer it to a Catholic/Protestant fight.”
I hate fighting with myself. ;)
I believe the Bible to be the word of God & that He had a hand in those writings. If you've studied at all on how the Bible was compiled, you would see it was definitely something that man did. The compilers never mentioned direct intervention in what books would be included & which wouldn't. In fact, you may recall, they stated that the Heavens were closed to further revelation.
Question for you. Is there anything in the Bible that doesn't have a purpose? Anything that's worthless? If not, why the mention of these books if there wasn't some relevance for us?
The point is, the Lord had a hand in the writings. He was kept out of the compilation. Study up on how the Bible was put together, it's a fascinating read.
>>Were here to take away your rights.
The “Rights” referred to by the founders were Natural, Inalienable Rights, endowed to the created by Nature’s Creator.
Humans are Mammals. Mammals reproduce heterosexually.
Homosexual behavior is an aberration of Natural Human sexual instinct and morphology.
Human Homosexuality is not Natural.
There is no Natural “Right” to homosexual behavior, or homosexual marriage.
“... Jesus didn’t ask you to judge, get it?”
I know exactly how the Bible came to be....through God. The history of it is fascinating....but not as fantastical as the Book of Mormon. Obviously you think God did direct Jospeh Smith in the creation of the Book of Mormon, but was unable to direct the Church fathers in the organization of the Bible. And so, ultimately you don’t believe in the Bible do you?
You see anger in what I post...because I call you apologists out on your prevarications and obsfucations and I do it in plain language.
Actually, I am smiling when I post, because most of you can't seem to present the mormon beliefs without editing them to hide the facts that you don't want others to see as you did in your post 655.
Tsk, Tsk...promising that Christians will "ultimately receive all the blessings the Lord has in store for them." (read as "they won't get the blessings the Lord has in store for US!...neener, neener") ;)....Smiling here, Reno.
"We believe that most will not go to hell b/c of their beliefs." (Read "they won't go to HELL, 'cuz we don't believe in hell, but they will be kept at the very bottom of the mormon "three degrees of glory, while WE will sit at the top!"
The way to avoid my "angry" posts is to simply post the truth of your beliefs, and stand up for them....you can wager that SOMEONE will challenge you when you try to dodge the truth.
But more importantly, we obviously have very different views on the subject as many other Christians here would as well. How do you know you're correct? What makes your opinion better than ours? Definitively, why are you correct, & we (LDS & other Christians) wrong?
it's not what you post that's the problem, it's what you post that isn't so.I have chased most of these down with you on other threads, and some with other posters, and they are all misquotes from anti sites that are either nonexistent, or taken out of context. It does not bother me for anyone driven off by your juvenile antics is not ready anyway, you do however keep threads visible by posting so for that, thanks.
One would question the depth of that "understanding and perspective", given your comments on Christians. (Big smile! ;)
Examples? Other than your whine about being "persecuted"?
We believe that ALL Christians will have the opportunity for Celestial glory. In fact we believe all mankind will. You should know that. That includes folks in China that have never even heard of Jesus Christ, let alone had the opportunity to accept him as their Savior. That's the mercy of the Lord.
As far as MY post 655 is concerned, post 655 was actually your post. Not sure what you're talking about there. See, people make mistakes.:)
You claim to know what we believe, & yet so misrepresent our beliefs it's almost beyond comprehension. But listen, I can see your dander is up again & I'd rather not be the cause of that. Let's call it a day here. I sincerely wish you the very best & a great weekend my FRiend.
What it the most recent utterance from an LSD president that could be taken as LSD doctrine?
CALLING it so does not MAKE it so.
You have shown nothing to DISPROVE what I've posted; have you?
You have the cattle, els....you definitely have the cattle - AND the hat!
No problem; I'll just continue to post your Organizations output and let the chips fall where they may.
There you go again!
SHOW us MISQUOTES!!