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Vatican condemns IVF, the Pill (Why is this so surprising alert!)
Reuters ^ | December 12, 2008 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 12/12/2008 6:09:21 AM PST by NYer

THE Vatican today said life was sacred at every stage of its existence and condemned artificial fertilisation, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning and drugs which block pregnancy from taking hold.

A long-awaited document on bioethics by the Vatican's doctrinal body also said the so-called "morning after pill" and the drug RU-486, which blocks the action of hormones needed to keep a fertilised egg implanted in the uterus, fall "within the sin of abortion" and are gravely immoral.

"Dignitas Personae" (dignity of a person), an Instruction of Certain Bioethical Questions," is an attempt to bring the Church up to date with recent advances in science and medicine.

It said human life deserved respect "from the very first stages of its existence (and) can never be reduced merely to a group of cells."

"The human embryo has, therefore, from the very beginning, the dignity proper to a person," the docment by the Congregations of the Doctrine of the Faith said.

It said most forms of artifical fertilisation "are to be excluded" because "they substitute for the conjugal act ... which alone is truly worthy of responsible procreation".

It condemned in-vitro fertilisation, saying the techniques "proceed as if the human embryo were simply a mass of cells to be used, selected and discarded."

The highly technical document said only adult stem cell research was moral because embryonic stem cell research involved the destruction of embryos.

In the document, the Vatican also defended its right to intervene on such matters.

(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.news.com.au ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: catholic; cloning; ivf; moralabsolutes; pope; prolife; vatican
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To: Petronski
Feeble cause? Basic human rights for all humans?

No. Trying to prevent someone from reproducing. That's what you're fighting, by fighting IVF.

181 posted on 12/12/2008 9:50:12 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: NYer

I am a committed Christian and am pro-IVF.

There is one sin associated with IVF, and it can be completely avoided. That sin is the destruction of leftover unused embryos.

There are 3 ways to avoid this sin of destroying leftover unused embryos: 1) donating to other infertile couples, 2) placing for adoption with snowflakes.org, or 3) using the embryos in subsequent IVF attempts until the embryos have all had the opportunity to implant.


182 posted on 12/12/2008 9:50:19 AM PST by olivia3boys
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To: BMiles2112

The right to procreate is so basic, transcends all other rights. Genetic suicide is strongly disapproved, in all life-forms.


183 posted on 12/12/2008 9:51:46 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: rintense

Yes, I believe I read once that only 25% of IVF cycles result in any leftover embryos for freezing.


184 posted on 12/12/2008 9:53:13 AM PST by olivia3boys
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To: Citizen Blade
I don't disagree with that. However, I'm not the one arguing for the supremacy of nature. Those arguing for IVF are claiming that propagation of genes is natural, and therefore good. I don't believe that something is good merely because it is so in nature.
185 posted on 12/12/2008 9:53:51 AM PST by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

ethics in an unethical selfish world are totally complicated. Morality however is not. I will live by my morals because they are grounded in the good of society instead of self. Simply stated, what part of thou shall not kill is not ethical? It is easy to see it is immoral to kill a human being, no matter what stage of life it is at. Unethical “ethisits” argue it is ethical to kill some to create one, or heal one, or kill one who’s life is not deemed worth living. This is in complete disagreement with moral teaching. As Ronald Reagan once said, the only ones who argue for abortion are those who were not aborted. Same applies here.


186 posted on 12/12/2008 9:54:12 AM PST by wombtotomb (since its "above his paygrade", why can't we err on the side of caution about when life begins?)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

ethics in an unethical selfish world are totally complicated. Morality however is not. I will live by my morals because they are grounded in the good of society instead of self. Simply stated, what part of thou shall not kill is not ethical? It is easy to see it is immoral to kill a human being, no matter what stage of life it is at. Unethical “ethisits” argue it is ethical to kill some to create one, or heal one, or kill one who’s life is not deemed worth living. This is in complete disagreement with moral teaching. As Ronald Reagan once said, the only ones who argue for abortion are those who were not aborted. Same applies here.


187 posted on 12/12/2008 9:54:12 AM PST by wombtotomb (since its "above his paygrade", why can't we err on the side of caution about when life begins?)
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To: MHGinTN
We have many n00bs filthying up FR of late. That these pricks (littel nettles, nothing more) expect to be given credulity and lots of attention is an immediate giveaway. Twisting and deceit are the natural democrat way don’tchaknow. It is to smile, they are so obvious.

I hope you're done taking out all your frustrations owing to your incapability to participate in the discussion, with that cute paragraph. It is plainly evident, what you intended to achieve with that nasty, LOL!

Background chatter, is all what that was.

188 posted on 12/12/2008 9:54:43 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

I’m not trying to prevent someone from reproducing, that’s a grotesque distortion of my position.

I’m trying to protect the basic human rights of ALL humans, not just the ones who survive the womb (or in this case, the glass dish).


189 posted on 12/12/2008 9:55:17 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: wombtotomb; olivia3boys
ethics in an unethical selfish world are totally complicated. Morality however is not. I will live by my morals because they are grounded in the good of society instead of self. Simply stated, what part of thou shall not kill is not ethical? It is easy to see it is immoral to kill a human being, no matter what stage of life it is at. Unethical “ethisits” argue it is ethical to kill some to create one, or heal one, or kill one who’s life is not deemed worth living. This is in complete disagreement with moral teaching. As Ronald Reagan once said, the only ones who argue for abortion are those who were not aborted. Same applies here.

Consult Olivia3boys argument.

190 posted on 12/12/2008 9:57:34 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: wintertime

Selective reduction is by no means a required part of the process of IVF.

Higher-order multiple pregnancies (more than twins) happens more often with IUI, not IVF, because with IVF the number of embryos replaced can be controlled—not so with IUI.


191 posted on 12/12/2008 9:57:42 AM PST by olivia3boys
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
The right to procreate is so basic, transcends all other rights.

That is truly twisted.

The reality is that the individual's right to life is so basic, it transcends all others.

192 posted on 12/12/2008 9:58:00 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Petronski
I’m not trying to prevent someone from reproducing, that’s a grotesque distortion of my position.

In essence, respectively, yes you are; no it's not.

See #190

193 posted on 12/12/2008 9:59:17 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: olivia3boys
Don't pretend this is just about lives lost to selective reduction--a more monstrous euphemism I have not seen in quite some time.
194 posted on 12/12/2008 10:00:17 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
When you analyze deep enough, establishing a genetic legacy is the paramount motivation for all living forms,
False. If you were given the option of 1) A guarantee of a long, healthy life without genetic offspring (you would be free to adopt) or 2) A guarantee of procreation today with a second guarantee that the child would live a long life, but you will die tomorrow, which do you choose? Unless you can make the argument that only the disordered would choose a long life, then I'm afraid you're wrong.
195 posted on 12/12/2008 10:00:25 AM PST by BMiles2112
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
When you analyze deep enough, establishing a genetic legacy is the paramount motivation for all living forms, no matter how much PC nonsense can make arguments to the contrary. It's life's substitute for immortality.

Maybe that is what ultimately drives us to progriate....Yet...in the end it serves as no advantage when one dies....which is what I questioned initially....how does this provide an advantage to one who is dead....?

I cannot think of one advatage....assuming there is no existence after death....
196 posted on 12/12/2008 10:00:35 AM PST by PigRigger (Donate to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org - The Troops have our front covered, let's guard their backs!)
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To: olivia3boys
Yes, I believe I read once that only 25% of IVF cycles result in any leftover embryos for freezing.

This debate will go away as medical technology advances to the point where few, if any, extra embryos will be necessary.

197 posted on 12/12/2008 10:01:08 AM PST by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: Petronski
That is truly twisted.

You are wilfully choosing to not see what's evident, in life.

Reproduction IS paramount, however twisted it may seem. In the long run, in strict terms, as a biological entity, the individual matters a mere fraction compared to its genetic legacy.

198 posted on 12/12/2008 10:01:37 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: olivia3boys

How about those million destroyed in the UK?

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=1079


199 posted on 12/12/2008 10:01:46 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: PigRigger
Maybe that is what ultimately drives us to progriate....Yet...in the end it serves as no advantage when one dies....which is what I questioned initially....how does this provide an advantage to one who is dead....?

Because nature values genetic legacy more than the individual.

200 posted on 12/12/2008 10:02:56 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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