Posted on 12/16/2008 4:19:57 PM PST by briarbey b
The loony speak seems to be coming from your end.
The boss doesn't have to prove to you that you are eligible for the job for which you are applying.
Then surely you can point to the law which specifies what credentials Obama needs to present and what government entity he needs to present them to?
Because Obama's legal and public position is that he has met all legal requirements to show that he is Constitutionally qualified to be President. Until and unless a court orders him to provide more, I think he's not going to budge from that position. Objectively, I think that is the best position for him to take for his own political purposes. Otherwise, he would be giving credence to people who he probably considers to be fringe kooks.
Unless someone comes up with enough evidence to get a court to order Obama to provide more proof, this whole thing is at a dead end.
‘Zactly.
His political purposes would be better served by making his enemies look like fools if he can.
I was not forecasting any probabilities merely describing the facts. Congress has in the past declared slates of electors invalid so it is not impossible. By the end of a month the Blagoavitch scandel may have sunk more than we know.
That maxim clearly is not followed in American politics. I wish Bush had followed it.
AOL’s poll indicates he is hurting himself with a far wider group than FReepers.
And it is false that the vast majority of us would not accept a valid birth certificate something he has NOT produced no matter your belief that he has.
Should he direct Linda Lingle to release it to the media and it is valid we will grin and bear it.
You are glued the position that “citizen at birth” equates to “natural born citizen”. After all, they both have a derivative of the word “born” in them. Oh wait. “Naturalized citizen” and “natural born citizen” both contain a derivative of “natural”! They must be equal too! The usurpers of the world thank you for being a useful idiot.
Hawaii law requires hospitals to maintain records for 25 years (i.e., back to 1983).
I recently had occasion to try to uncover some information about events in the childhood of a 55-year old man. These events took place AT MY HOSPITAL, and he was MY PATIENT.
The fact is, records are not stored for 45 years by any hospitals, anywhere, and it's very, VERY unlikely that list information (admissions, discharges, deliveries) from 1961 would have been digitized before being destroyed in 1986, since scanning and database technology was just beginning.
I'm sure the reason these hospitals have no records of Stanley Ann Dunham in 1961 is because they have no records of any kind from that era - and haven't had any since they were destroyed in 1986, as allowed by law.
I've been watching these threads for quite some time. And if Obama did produce his birth certificate I would predict that the overwhelming majority of the people on these threads would immediately say, "Yes, but Hawaii issued birth certificates to anyone who asked. It doesn't prove anything." A sizable majority of your cohorts would not believe Obama was born in the U.S. if the substantiation came from a burning bush.
Because nowhere in the Constitution is the term 'natural born citizen' defined. Because federal law identifies two types of citizens - citizen at birth and naturalized citizen. Because the Supreme Court has upheld the idea of two classes of citizen, and two only, in their Ark decision. And because of that 'citizen at birth' and 'natural born citizen' are one and the same. But mainly because unlike you I've read the applicable law and the relevant Supreme Court decisions.
The usurpers of the world thank you for being a useful idiot.
And would that make you a useless idiot by comparison?
obumpa
“End the speculation once and for all by going out there and coming up with something, anything that shows Obama was born in Kenya.”
Tut, Tut, I never said I believed he was born in Kenya.
We really can’t be sure where he was born.
That’s the problem.
Frankly, I’m not sure where he was born would be the end of the story.
I’m also concerned with where he’s been and what sort of allegiances (if any) he has with foreign powers that would speak to divided loyalties.
I am not out to ‘get’ Obama — at this point in time.
You would probably be surprised how much I would be willing to forgive.
Contrary to the image projected by the MSM upon the naive and clueless sheeple — that there is something ‘special’ about him — he’s just a man.
I’ve met hundreds of Obama’s in my life and I wouldn’t buy a pencil from any of them.
However, if Obama comes clean with his vital records and is otherwise qualified to be President, then — since he was duly elected — he will be my President.
He may drink blood and hold midnight mass, but if he is constitutionally eligible — he will be my President.
ALSO OF NOTE:
I don’t mind your answers if they are straight forward (like this time)without the accompanying dialectal gymnastics, peppered with non sequiturs!
In order for communication to be meaningful there has to be a meeting of the minds.
Just dismissing everything one’s conversational partner says as ‘nonsense’ or ‘wacko’ etc. — as is in vogue nowadays, especially on left wing forums — is not exemplary of a keen mind.
I know you can do better.
Now let me ask(please be honest).
(1)Do you have any SERIOUS concerns in regards to an Obama Presidency?
(2)Do you TRUST that he will... ‘faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of (his) ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.’(from the Presidential oath of office)
(3)Do you believe that those that hold serious reservations about Obama in the white house are making a big fuss over nothing?
(4) Is it your contention that Obama is being singled out unfairly... that he is being ‘picked on’ for what amounts to frivolous and irresponsible rumors... rumors generated from the over active imaginations of those that would oppose him even if he were forthcoming with his vital documents... that he has had sealed from the public?
By the way, there does seem to be precedent for disqualifying candidates for president at the level of the secretary of state (sos).
NOTE:
Admittedly, these candidates were removed BEFORE they had an opportunity to be elected to office.
Because ‘the people’ have now voted, reversing the election becomes problematic.
Still, it seams to show that there was a process in place for weeding out ineligible candidates and Obama, apparently, fell through the cracks — so to speak.
THE KEYES’ LAWSUIT (SEE BELOW: PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDATE)
NOTICE THAT PRECEDENT IS ESTABLISHED FOR REMOVING CANDIDATES THAT ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO SERVE AS PRESIDENT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. (SEE # 78)
OBAMA — AND CONSPIRATORS (IF ANY) — MAY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME ( see # 76)
ON THE QUESTION OF ‘STANDING’ (see 71 & 72)
WHY A CERTIFIED COPY OR AN ORIGINAL VAULT CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH IS NECESSARY TO SHOW THAT SENATOR OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII — AS HE HAS ATTESTED — AND NOT SOMEWHERE ELSE (see 74 & 75)
PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDATE:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/AlanKeyesSuit.pdf
EXCERPTS:
71. 3 United States Code (U.S.C.) Section 8 provides, “The electors shall vote for President and Vice President, respectively, in the manner directed by the Constitution.” This federal statute confers upon each elector an affirmative duty to discover whether the candidate for President for which the elector is seeking election is a “natural born” citizen. Otherwise, the elector would not know if his vote was being cast in the “manner directed by the Constitution.”
72. Given this constitutionally mandated duty, PETITIONERS have standing to bring this Writ before this Court.
73.A growing number of questions have arisen in litigation in at least 10 states contesting whether Senator John McCain or Senator Barack Obama are “natural born” citizens and, therefore, constitutionally eligible to be entrusted with the Office of President of the United States. In the litigation against Senator Obama, allegations have been made that his admitted dual citizenship in Indonesia, and lack of evidence that he renounced the same, caused a loss of his United States Citizenship as a matter of law. Moreover, evidence released by the Obama campaign purporting to be a “Certification of Live Birth” on its face appears to be of questionable authenticity. One of the many problems with this evidence is that the border design differs from the border designs of other Certifications of Live Birth printed during the same time period. All these questions about both of the candidates are still unresolved.In the course of those lawsuits,some of which have been dismissed, it has been determined that there exists no designated official in the federal government, or the government of the states, directly charged with the responsibility of determining whether any Presidential candidate meets the qualifications of Article II of the Constitution of the United States. In most states,that responsibility is vested with the political parties, all of which have a conflict of interest in making any such determination, and none of which have been forthcoming with information or evidence verifying any candidate’s compliance with the eligibility requirements.
74. A press release was issued on October 31, 2008, by the Hawaii Department of Health by its Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino. Dr. Fukino said that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Senator Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” That statement failed to resolve any of the questions being raised by litigation and press accounts. Being “on record” could mean either that its contents are in the computer database of the department or there is an actual “vault” original.
75. Further, the report does not say whether the birth certificate in the “record” is a Certificate of Live Birth or a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth. In Hawaii,a Certificate of Live Birth resulting from hospital documentation, including a signature of an attending physician, is different from a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth. For births prior to 1972, a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth was the result of the uncorroborated testimony of one witness and was not generated by a hospital. Such a Certificate could be obtained up to one year from the date of the child’s birth. For that reason, its value as prima facie evidence is limited and could be overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of birth outside Hawaii can be obtained. The vault (long Version) birth certificate, per Hawaiian Statute 883.176 allows the birth in another State or another country to be registered in Hawaii. Box 7C of the vault Certificate of Live Birth contains a question, whether the birth was in Hawaii or another State or Country. Therefore, the only way to verify the exact location of birth is to review a certified copy or the original vault Certificate of Live Birth and compare the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor against the birthing records on file at the hospital noted on the Certificate of the Live Birth.
76. An unprecedented and looming constitutional crisis awaits if a President elected by the popular vote and the electoral vote does not constitutionally qualify to serve in that capacity. In addition,if Senator Obama is not a “natural born” citizen and not eligible for presidency, Senator Obama will be subject to the criminal Provisions of the California Elections Code, stating, “Any person who files or submit for filing a nomination paper or declaration of candidacy knowing that it, or any part of it, has been made falsely is punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months or two or three years or by both the fine and imprisonment” (California Elections Code § 18203). Further, Senator Obama, SOS, the Governor of the State of California, and all of the California Electors may be subject to the penal provisions of the California Elections Code which states, “Any person who commits fraud and any person who aids or abets fraud or attempts to aid or abet fraud, in connection with any vote cast, to be cast, or attempted to be cast, is guilty of felony, punishable by imprisonment for 16 months or two or three years” (California Elections Code § 18500 ).
77. The Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides, “if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or in the manner in which one who is to act shall be elected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.” Thus, if Senator Obama cannot take office due to his citizenship, succession to the Presidency is set.
II
BACKGROUND OF THE CASE
78. The Office of the Secretary of State of California is the California agency responsible for certifying candidates for inclusion on the ballot. Historically, California Secretaries of State have exercised their due diligence by reviewing necessary background documents, verifying that the candidates that were submitted by the respective political parties as eligible for the ballot were indeed eligible. In 1968, the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for President of the United States. The then SOS, Mr. Frank Jordan, found that, according to Mr. Cleaver’s birth certificate, he was only 34 years old, one year shy of the 35 years of age needed to be on the ballot as a candidate for President. Using his administrative powers, Mr.Jordan removed Mr. Cleaver from the ballot. Mr. Cleaver unsuccessfully challenged this decision to the Supreme Court of the State of California, and, later, to the Supreme Court of the United States. Similarly, in 1984, the Peace and Freedom Party listed Mr. Larry Holmes as an eligible candidate in the Presidential primary. When the then SOS checked his eligibility, it was found that Mr. Holmes was similarly not eligible, and Mr. Holmes was removed from the ballot. Currently, we have a similar situation in that the Democratic Party has submitted the name of Senator Barack Obama as candidate for President.
STE=Q
seams=seems
“Useless” to an usurper of my nation ... yeah, I’ll take that one.
It appears that a dedicated group of folks is narrowly focused on a technical detail of the Constitution, but don’t realize that the nation’s leadership is focusing on a bigger picture: the new Con Con. All of the document hiding and delays are meant to keep the truth out of sight until the Con Con. Afterwards, everything will be legal and proper, since the new Constitution will be written by this generation’s non-spiritual liberal new world order apologists. God help us.
****
I’ve already emailed about this also slam. Everything is orchestrated, they will destroy our constitution one way or another....the objective is to destroy the “CONSTITUTION”!!
Yes...God help us.
“IF MY PEOPLE who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear their prayers and heal their land.”
This is our answer...but this country...ONE NATION UNDER GOD...has no use for God anymore...although 85% profess to be christian...how sad!!
Beckwith's excellent explanation: http://www.theobamafile.com/NaturalBornCitizenChart2.htm
Should have pinged you since I directed readers to your excellent explanation.
“U.S. now only 2 states away from rewriting Constitution”
Thanks for the link.
I’ve known this time would come since I was ten years old... I just didn’t know at the time that I would care.
(not going to say how long ago)
They can ‘reright’ all they want...I’ll be following the ‘old’ constitution. (I have a nice copy right here with me)
So, ah, what do you think about the second amendment?
‘We, the people, are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’ — Abraham Lincoln
Maybe and including ‘rewrite’ the Constitution?
STE=Q
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