Skip to comments.Lt. Starbuck … Lost In Castration.
Posted on 01/20/2009 8:30:14 AM PST by EveningStar
Once upon a time, in what used to be a far away land called Hollywood (but is now a state of mind and everywhere), a young actor was handed a script and asked to bring to life a character called Starbuck. I am that actor. The script was called Battlestar Galactica.
Fortunately, I was young, my imagination fertile and adrenal glands strong, because bringing Starbuck to life was over the dead imaginations of a lot of Network Executives...
Witness the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, bleak, miserable, despairing, angry and confused. Which is to say, it reflects in microcosm the complete change in the politics and morality of todays world, as opposed to the world of yesterday. The world of Lorne Greene (Adama), Fred Astaire (Starbucks Poppa) and Dirk Benedict (Starbuck). I would guess Lorne is glad hes in that Big Bonanza in the sky and well out of it. Starbuck, alas, has not been so lucky. Hes not been left to pass quietly into that trivial world of cancelled TV characters...
(Excerpt) Read more at bighollywood.breitbart.com ...
Actually, I find the moral ambiguity refreshingly realistic. Pakistan is our “ally” in the WOT, but they’ve been selling us out all along. Saddam was our “ally” once, we know how that turned out.
Quote: “Its TV. Its not real. The stories are decent and the actors are pretty good. The effects are well done. But, its TV.”
No, its part of the leftist propaganda machine. Until we start realizing how they are playing the game, we are toast. They own the education system, they own the news media, they own enterntainment. I have watched every episode of this show and at first I loved it. But once I got hooked and started to try to figure out where the show was heading I understood the message that was trying to be put forth, namely, that the Cylons comitted genocide on the human race but it was somehow morally justified because the human race was itself imoral and corrupt. Afterall, it was the humans who made the cyclons, right?
Gee that sounds familiar. Al Queada destroys the WTC killing thousands and what did the left say? Why, they said “America’s chickens were coming home to roooostaaaaah.” Ok, they did not all put it that way but they certainly said that we needed to look inwards. They said that we, the U.S of A had made Bin Laden by supporting him during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and we had created Saddam by supporting him during the Iran Iraq war. So, somehow it was our own fault.
Perhaps I am being paranoid but given the REAL events of today, Hollywoods leftist tilt and their incessant pushing of an agenda on us in everything they produce, I refuse to believe it is a coincidence. I could care the less whether a dude or hottie is playing Starbuck, Boomer or whoever. That misses the point. I am sick of an agenda being pushed on me and just want to be freaking entertained.
Quote: “Actually, I find the moral ambiguity refreshingly realistic. Pakistan is our ally in the WOT, but theyve been selling us out all along. Saddam was our ally once, we know how that turned out.”
So then, by that logic, Bin Laden was our ally once. Why not forgive and forget and sit down with him for a talk? If he was our ally once and attacked us, that makes it ok? I find the moral ambiguity refreshingly naive. The bottom line is that in fighting a war things are never clear and you can’t always be choosy about who you side with. The Soviet Union was our ally. Should we not have allied with them and allowed Germany to win WWII?
I just don’t see the political correctness. I thought that when I first heard the news, and I really ralphed when I heard the Cyclons look like humans. But I gave it a chance and it came out remarkably well. And the re-imaged Starbuck is definitely a troubled character. And it goes into why she has the tough-guy thing going on. The original Starbuck was a cardboard cutout caricature of a man.
Give the pilot miniseries a chance. They do a good job of paying respect to the old show, too.
The whole point of the show was if humanity has the right to exist. What makes the humans better than the machines? It's not much different than humanity today. That example was a strong part of the plot line. The humans didn't wipe out the Cylons. And later in the show, the Cylons realized that the genocide of the humans made them just like the humans so they stopped. THat's why they occupied New Caprica. I believe one of the underlying ideas in the show is that humanity and the cyclons need to reconcile or neither will survive.
As I said, I haven’t watched the new BSG. However, I’m not easily overwhelmed. For instance, I found Babylon 5, Alien Nation, and Beauty and the Beast to be unimpressive.
“fighting a war is never clear”: hmmm, who said that? Wouldn’t a more realistic and therefore entertaining TV reflect that? Or do you want all straw men and propaganda in your shows?
And the problem is that if they did, I wouldn't care because none of the characters are worth caring about at this point. It's like they populated the show with the people who would have been put on Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B.
Kirk: There's just one thing I want.
Spock: The Klingon?
Kirk: One of us must get him.
Spock: Revenge, Captain?
Kirk: Why not?
Or how about this exchange from The Conscience of the King, where Captain Kirk reacts to Kodos' attempt at moral relativism:
Kodos: Captain Kirk, who are you to say what harm was done?
Kirk: Who do I have to be?
Or how about this very nice summary of what's wrong with the leftist idea that war should be "proportional" and fair and thus rational (consider this quote in the context of Gaza) from A Taste of Armageddon:
Kirk: Death, destruction, disease, horror... that's what war is all about, Anan. That's what makes it a thing to be avoided. You've made it neat and painless. So neat and painless, you've had no reason to stop it. And you've had it for 500 years.
I can go on. Basically, those characters had conservative attitudes toward right and wrong that just don't exist in curren television characters except in parody.
It was cheesy in 1978. Partly in self defense. It had a really dark story but in 78 the Cyber Punk revolution hadn’t started yet, dark stories really weren’t big in SF or anything else, so there was a lot of fluff stuck in like Boxey to lighten it up. Actually my view of the original is better now than it was then, partly because of the new version, after the first season finished I Netflixed the original, one of the things I noticed was the seeds of the story Ron Moore has been telling. All the dark brooding stuff people complain about was in the original, they just couldn’t focus on that in a pre-Blade Runner/ Terminator world. You could kill off most of the human race back then, but you couldn’t dwell on it, you could mention that people’s living conditions in the fleet were basically sub-human, but you couldn’t show it every episode, you could hint at the fact that the commander of the Pegasus had crippling survivors guilt by having him plan suicide missions, but you couldn’t play with his insanity for half a season.
It didn’t get canceled to help M&M it got canceled because it was too expensive. In order to pay for itself it would have needed near Super Bowl numbers every week. 1 million 1978 dollars is very expensive, especially with the FCC regs that limited the number of commercials you could stick in an hour of TV, there was just no way to pay for the show. That was part of the point of Galactica 80, it was a very bad attempt to capture what they thought made Galactica popular for much less money, unfortunately they guessed wrong.
Within the episode it does kind of surprise you, they get you thinking maybe Dee and Lee will get back together and BAM. Then you think and remember and it all makes some sense. Also the walk through scene of Adama helps, really does show that everybody is falling apart, hope has been removed.
Deep Space 9- Commander is black, doctor and security chief are metrosexuals
Having seen a lot of both versions I say ole Dirk is spot on. The new BSG has the dreariness of “1984” without the imagination.
If we committed genocide we arguably wouldn’t. That’s the problem with your logic. You’re saying they should have genocided the Cylons because they tried to do it to them. Of course if committing genocide it the kind of act that earns a species genocide will then had they released the virus they would have after the fact earned the genocide done to the humans.
One should always ask questions when one is about to start killing. That’s what separates us from the animals, the ability to understand what we’re doing and figure out if that’s what should be done.
You can’t really blame Jerri Ryan because she fought, with Jack, to keep those papers sealed. It was the judge and the papers that forced them to be unsealed.
Or even just watch the original Star Trek series. One of the biggest differences is that before the late-1960s, eternal childhood wasn't idealized but was something to fear and Star Trek had several episodes promoting this theme including Charlie X, And the Children Shall Lead, and Miri as well as The Squire of Gothos and The Way to Eden, which ultimately was a warning against the blind idealism of young hippies.
The new BG sucks even though the chicks are groovy.
All of that politically correct hand wringing, really put me off!
I want to be entertained, not preached to.
“...(witness the abortion episode, for example)”
Guys don’t watch shows about abortion.
“...Dee was seriously depressed, the last time she spoke to her family was an argument over whether she should join the military, and she had a lot of regrets about that (remember the military tribute episode). Then Billy dies, and her rebound relationship with Apollo...”
I’m so glad I haven’t seen this show. Who wants to watch cr@p like that?! Who in the hell CARES about Dee feeling bad because her family is unhappy, and her rebound with whoever?
Is this show on Lifetime? Does Oprah discuss its plot lines?
Quote: fighting a war is never clear: hmmm, who said that? Wouldnt a more realistic and therefore entertaining TV reflect that? Or do you want all straw men and propaganda in your shows?”
So, a more entertaining show to you is one where on race is subject to genocide and it is not clear if they are justified in fighting back rather than just cashing it in and voting for extinction. “Oh crap, we were attacked, but to fight back might mean there is collateral damage. Oh well, lets just die!!!” Yes, I want to see that show. We can call it “Battlestar Suicide.”
I know, how about a show that seeks first and foremost to entertain. How about no agenda, no message, just freaking entertainment. Tell a damn story. Alas, that art form has been lost in Hollyweird. Instead it is agenda first and, oh yeah, there is a story in there somewhere that we will get to right after these messages from your lefist overlords.
Jeri is the one who made the *accusation*.
It was still decent - the Hurons were still bloodthirsty savages. But I couldn't recall the Hawkeye character being referred to as "Hawkeye" even once in the film.
I know a lot of folks on here really have liked BSG, but frankly, I have said from the beginning that it is a terrible series with no uplifting redeeming value. All it has been is a daytime soap opera in a sci fi skin.
Star Trek Enterprise with Scott Bakula was by far the best of them. Too bad it only ran 4 seasons.
Same here. Never watched an episode for the same reason. I figured they'd just turn it into a lame 90210 in space with great special effects.
Scanning through this thread it looks like I was right.
That’s about it in a nutshell for me as well. I just didn’t find the whole “Lost” in space genre to be interesting.
Though, I’ll usually tune in for about 10 minutes just in case there might actually *BE* an interesting show. Usually, it’s mostly a miss, though.
Depends... Are you basing your opinion on the standards of the 1970’s (when the show was on), or now?
I’m willing to bet that the new BSG will be considered gayer than gay in 30 years. (and be thought to have cheesy special effects, too)
Actually, I think that any of the Golgafrinchian telephone sanitizers, third class, could write a better script than what’s found on most television shows nowadays...
It’s not because her family is unhappy, it’s because they’re DEAD and the only reason she’s alive is the source of her argument with them.
Have we been watching the same show? You’re weird, dude.
No man wants to talk or think about a ‘rebound relationship’. That marks it as a feminazi show.
That marks it as a show that understands there’s a large percentage of the population out there that aren’t traditional SF fans that comprehend feelings and stuff. The core nerd crowd is easy to get, a few decent space explosions and some hot babes and don’t horribly violate the laws of physics too often and they’re yours. But they aren’t that much of the population, nothing wrong with appealing to non-nerdy men and women, they’ve got money too.
First off your “first off” is wrong on all counts. They aren’t just machines, they can breed with humans, they clearly are another culture (they have a religion that none of the humans have) and possibly race.
The virus probably wouldn’t have insured their survival. There was one big gaping hole in the concept of the virus, it all ran under the assumption that the resurrection ships were all within resurrection range of some other resurrection ship all the way back to the Cylon home world. Any R-ship that wasn’t close enough wouldn’t have gotten the virus. It would have wiped out the pod that was currently harassing the fleet, but really it’s unlikely to have taken out the whole race.
You should always ponder something like genocide. Remember, that’s a large part of why we dropped the bomb, because we figured that was about the only way we could win the Pacific front without committing genocide.
Nobody is saying they don’t have the right to defend themselves. But is genocide ever really self defense? That’s the question.
Moral clarity can make for boring drama. Interesting drama asks hard questions of the viewer. IMHO I think they should have released the virus, for all the reasons you point out only without the needless venom, even if it didn’t wipe out the Cylons it was a good counter attack. But I don’t think it’s an easy decision, the Cylons AREN’T just machines and even a probably unlikely attempt at genocide would kill many millions of them. Killing many millions of anything sentient is a thing worth considering deeply. Truman didn’t just say “heck yeah drop the bombs” he thought about it long and hard, and those bombings didn’t even kill a 1/4 million.
There’s drama in the thinking. Maybe not a kind of drama you enjoy, but there is drama there, and there’s nothing wrong with enjoying it.
So they’re after the Oprah audience...
A man breaks up with a gal because she’s a jerk and he’s glad to be rid of her. If she initiates the breakup, she’s a jerk and he’s glad to be rid of her.
You just described a chick flick TV series.
Remember - gays have money too! That’s why the second Star Trek series was popular...
They’re after any audience they can get. Just like any other intelligently run TV show.
See you’re just thrashing around wanting to insult people. I already said the first boyfriend DIED, that’s what she was rebounding from.
It’s not a chick flick TV series because it hasn’t come close to having a happy ending and isn’t staging for one. Chick flicks have happy endings.
The second Trek series was popular because it brought Trek back. The juggernaut by that point was well established. Of course the first Trek did some things to try to get the female (and I guess gay) audience too, they followed the old Wild Wild West rule: if the plot is thin have Bill (or Bob depending on which show) take his shirt off. They didn’t really have a good shirt removing plot substitute in Next Gen.
I’d heard they’d hired a show fixer, never knew why.
Nonsense. The article is extremely insightful and well-written, and in my opinion, dead-on accurate in its conclusions. You, and others, of course, are free to have a different opinion. That, at least, is still permissible in America, for the moment...
I can see your point, but one has to give the writers credit for knowing their audience. Traditionally, viewers of sci-fi are male, and males react more strongly to the death of female characters, and they can identify more strongly with males who (over)indulge by drowning their sorrows in drink. In fact, men drowning thier sorrows is the basis for a lot of blues and country music.
Lets get something straight. What happened in their marriage, and the reasons for the divorce are the matters between the Ryans. It takes a real moron to equate the divorce *accusations* of one party, as the reason or responsibility, as to why the other "lost" a senate seat.
Their divorce happened years before Jack ran for senate. Jeri had nothing to do with it.
Maybe, just maybe, the accusation is true. In that case Jack Ryan has no one to blame but himself.
If Jeri was the one who gave the media the court records, then she could be blamed, as the one slinging mud to damage an ex. But that is not the case.
Basically what you are saying is "Jeri is the one who made the *accusation*." "So she is the one guilty of torpedoing Jacks senate run."
Still have to disagree on the cheesy part.
TOBSG’s effects were done by John Dkystra, Richard Edlund(who both worked on Star Wars) and John Goss(who later worked on V). They won a Emmy for the effects.
The effects compared very well on a shot for shot basis.(what there were of them, but that was just a budget problem)
I think the real reason people think the effects of TOBSG weren’t as good as SW is that they saw them on different size screens. Seeing SW on a 50ft screen and then seeing TOBSG on a 25” screen makes all the difference in the world.
I saw TOBSG on TV and then later went to the theatre to see the theatrical release. TOBSG did not hold up very well on the big screen. Even my wife noticed the difference, and she wasn’t in the business.
Then a few weeks later I got a hold of a pristine copy of Star Wars on 3 3/4” UMatic cassettes.
Strange as it may seem, SW did not look as good on the small screen as TOBSG. I think it is because they were each composited for different mediums.
RE: M&M replacing TOBSG. All I can say is that Wikipedia mentions it(Yeah, I know), Glen Larson said the same thing in a film interview, and it was mentioned in an anniversary article in Starlog magazine a while back. Argue with them, not me.
And M&M DID move into TOBSG’S time slot.
When the threat to your survival is sufficiently large (as it is when there are only 50,000 humans left), yes. Pondering the morality of war is a luxury that people not facing extinction have. It's one of the reasons why the behavior of the characters in the show often rings hallow. They frequently act like the don't really care if humans make it or not and that's a pretty standard leftist world-view, that it doesn't matter which side wins.
As Patton observed (in 1930), "War is not a contest with gloves. It is resorted to only when laws (which are rules) have failed:" I highly recommend this essay.