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Seized gun poses puzzle
winnepeg sun ^ | 13 January, 2009 | CHRIS KITCHING

Posted on 02/01/2009 7:21:00 AM PST by marktwain

A submachine-gun seized during a gang house raid in Winnipeg's North End last week is unlike anything a police firearms expert has seen locally before.

What makes the gun so unique -- and troubling, police say -- is the way it was cobbled together.

"It looks like a hybrid or amalgam of gun parts," said police Det. Const. Rob Duttchen, a member of the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team.

SHOTGUNS STOLEN

Possibly homemade, the submachine-gun and five sawed-off shotguns, along with ammunition, were seized at a house in the 400-block of Manitoba Avenue on Jan. 7, police said.

Three males, aged 17, 27 and 28, are facing almost 120 charges.

Two of the shotguns were stolen during a break-and-enter in the District 6 area, Duttchen said.

The submachine-gun was loaded when it was found, said police spokesman Const. Jason Michalyshen.

It has parts consistent with those of a Second World War-era Sten and M-16 assault rifle, said Duttchen.

A certain level of expertise and knowledge would be required to make such a gun, he said.

Duttchen said the gun will be sent to a lab in Ottawa for examination as part of an investigation into its origin.

Police showed the firearms to reporters yesterday, along with an assortment of drugs and a 9-mm handgun seized during a separate bust Saturday afternoon in the 800-block of McCalman Avenue.

"We've got a significant amount of firepower here," Michalyshen said.

HOLLOWED-OUT BOOKS

The handgun was loaded at the time of the bust, he said.

Two of the more unusual items were hollowed-out books used to hide about $9,000 in cash, police said.

Officers also seized 31.5 ounces of cocaine, 17 ounces of marijuana, eight Percocet tablets, two grams of hashish oil and 3.2 ounces of the cutting agent benzocaine.

Police said the drugs allegedly belonged to a mid-level dealer.

Police said Marc William McIntosh, 29, is facing several drug- and weapon-related charges. He is in custody.


TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; canada; gun; homemade
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One of the things the anti-gunners never mention is homemade guns. At the url, there is a tab on top "photos" that gives a nice picture of the well made homemade submachinegun.
1 posted on 02/01/2009 7:21:00 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

That right there is the work of someone who has spent time in the Western Frontier of Pakistan.


2 posted on 02/01/2009 7:24:12 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Chevron 7 will not engage!)
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To: marktwain

IIRC, during the Second World War the Brits, who had production bottleneck problems, airdropped a set of dies to the Danish resistance so that they could make their own Sten guns in a toy factory they had access to.


3 posted on 02/01/2009 7:26:03 AM PST by Grut
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To: marktwain

If your assumption is that no one knows how to do anything, in a rubber room liberal world it all makes sense.


4 posted on 02/01/2009 7:27:18 AM PST by Tarpon (America's first principles, freedom, liberty, market economy and self-reliance will never fail.)
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To: marktwain

I suspect we will be seeing more stories like this one in the USA sooner than later.


5 posted on 02/01/2009 7:30:23 AM PST by LimaLimaMikeFoxtrot ("If you don't have my army supplied, and keep it supplied, we'll eat your mules up, sir"-Gen.Sherman)
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To: LimaLimaMikeFoxtrot

“I suspect we will be seeing more stories like this one in the USA sooner than later.”


There are a *lot* of homemade guns that are confiscated in the United States each year, most of them in liberal areas that have strict “gun control”. They are not counted in the overall totals, because they don’t have serial numbers and are untraceable, thus, no firearms traces are run on them.


6 posted on 02/01/2009 7:33:10 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
big whoop. it looks like a sten to me

"Police are concerned that it is an amalgam of parts" Stens have always been home made frankenstein type things.

That said, these were obviously bad guys.

7 posted on 02/01/2009 7:33:38 AM PST by mylife
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To: marktwain
"It looks like a hybrid or amalgam of gun parts," said police Det. Const. Rob Duttchen, a member of the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team.

Psst Joe. Is it to late to get that fag Frank to put one of those National Weapons Enforcement Support Teams in the Bill for us?

8 posted on 02/01/2009 7:35:45 AM PST by RoadKingSE (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash ?)
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To: Tarpon

“If your assumption is that no one knows how to do anything, in a rubber room liberal world it all makes sense.”


I am continually amazed at how many people in the modern US do not have a clue as to how to do the simplest things.

An intelligent woman I know was amazed that I knew how to adjust an alternator belt on a car!

A large number of urban people’s idea of how to fix something is to call a repairman. They have not the slightest idea of how plumbing, carpentry, or electrical systems work!


9 posted on 02/01/2009 7:37:36 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I do know how all those things work. The vehicles I leave to others because I’m more likely to do more damage than correct a problem. “A man has got to know his limitations”


10 posted on 02/01/2009 7:44:28 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Emmett McCarthy

Good! I am glad that you are capable. I did not accuse you of anything less.

Do you know people that fit the description that I gave?


11 posted on 02/01/2009 7:47:03 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
That is not a home made, it is a WWII 45, cal grease gun.
12 posted on 02/01/2009 7:47:32 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: marktwain

http://www.wwiiguns.com/store/product_details.php?p=301


13 posted on 02/01/2009 7:50:45 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: marktwain

The problem I always had was asking the operators why I was there to fix their machine. No matter who I talked to, I always was given this vague stupid answer.

It became a power trip for the operators. I wanted to know what the symptoms were and they couldn’t or wouldn’t give me a straight answer. As long as the machine was down, they were given free time and anything they did to impede progress helped them.


14 posted on 02/01/2009 7:52:43 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: org.whodat

No, its not. It is only a passing resemblance. The details are quite different.


15 posted on 02/01/2009 7:52:53 AM PST by buwaya
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To: marktwain

I hope the politicians stay up late at night wondering just how many homemade guns there are out there and I hope you all start making a few for yourselves. The realization of that HOPE could lead to real CHANGE for the better in this country.


16 posted on 02/01/2009 7:53:32 AM PST by MichiganConservative (You are a slave. The government is your owner and master. For many slaves, it is also their god.)
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To: org.whodat
org.whodat posted:
That is not a home made, it is a WWII 45, cal grease gun.

marktwain replies:
Why do you think so? The grip is wrong. The shape of the receiver is wrong. The trigger and trigger guard are wrong

17 posted on 02/01/2009 7:54:26 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Looks like a S&W 76 mated to some non-standard parts, like an AR-15 grip.


18 posted on 02/01/2009 7:57:21 AM PST by Pistolshot ("Democrats don't show respect, they just demand respect " - ClearCase_guy)
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To: org.whodat
It resembles a M3 and probably shares the blow back design but it is homemade


19 posted on 02/01/2009 7:57:36 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: marktwain

Like use a file and drill press ... Of course in relation to guns, we have been told this for ages, you can’t build modern guns with hand tools, so who needs modern. What do you think they used back in the late 1800s? 1911, get it ... Sheeze the stupidity.

It is amazing, but plenty of the people you describe live on my block. I rebuilt our house a few years ago, kitchen from scratch, replaced all windows, doors, light fixtures and my garage looks like a shop. I keep the garage door closed so as to not let the band-saw scare the neighborhood.

It really is frightening what nightclubbing has done to entire generations of Americans.


20 posted on 02/01/2009 7:59:27 AM PST by Tarpon (America's first principles, freedom, liberty, market economy and self-reliance will never fail.)
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To: marktwain
There used to be a display room of hand made firearms at Sing Sing prison. They were many and varied and all had one thing in common: They were made in prison by prisoners and used in escape attempts and sometimes just to kill someone for revenge. The most notable example that I saw was one with a barrel made from a curtain rod that used rectangular bullets and match heads for propellant. It worked, and had been used to kill a guard during an escape.

The point being this: If you can't "control" guns in a prison, a tightly controlled mini society, then how the hell are you going to do so in the real world? The answer is: You can't. Politicians know this, they are not stupid they are very cunning and simply want to disarm law abiding citizens in order to control us. Period.

As a PS, Guns and Ammo magazine did an article on the gun room back in the 1960s, it is possible they still have pictures of the guns in their archives if someone wanted to take the trouble to contact them about it.

21 posted on 02/01/2009 8:00:31 AM PST by calex59
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To: Shooter 2.5

No it’s not you can buy the de-milled parts just about anywhere, all you need is the receiver tube, a piece of muffler pipe works well.


22 posted on 02/01/2009 8:01:22 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: MichiganConservative
I hope the politicians stay up late at night wondering just how many homemade guns there are out there and I hope you all start making a few for yourselves. The realization of that HOPE could lead to real CHANGE for the better in this country.

Buy David Gingery's books while you still can.

23 posted on 02/01/2009 8:02:14 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: calex59

“The point being this: If you can’t “control” guns in a prison, a tightly controlled mini society, then how the hell are you going to do so in the real world? The answer is: You can’t. Politicians know this, they are not stupid they are very cunning and simply want to disarm law abiding citizens in order to control us. Period.”


Your points about guns in prisons are well made. Many modern politicians know all they know about guns from what they see on TV and “read in the papers”. A great many are appallingly ignorant about the simplest technologies and science.


24 posted on 02/01/2009 8:04:00 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
...and “read in the papers”.

The stupid informing the ignorant.

25 posted on 02/01/2009 8:06:41 AM PST by MichiganConservative (You are a slave. The government is your owner and master. For many slaves, it is also their god.)
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To: marktwain

Why should they be surprised? In the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan, they turn out thousands of hand made guns using crude tools that are every bit as deadly as government and factory produced firearms. These weapons are “counterfeit” AKs, Mausers, and others, and they’re very high quality.

Mark


26 posted on 02/01/2009 8:09:56 AM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: marktwain
Looks like the same idea they used for the Serbu BFG-50, except going the other direction.


27 posted on 02/01/2009 8:10:08 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: org.whodat

Nope, it’s got an AR15-style trigger assembly.


28 posted on 02/01/2009 8:10:47 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: All

I recall one that was made out of an old fashioned tire iron, perfectly concealed you could not tell without looking very close to see the recessed latch to pull out to operate the firing pin.

With the vast resources of our free society it would be necessary to bomb the whole country to stone age living conditions and do lobotomies on all citizens because we can always use existing substitute materials to create a gun, cannon, IED or grenade.

It is absolutely impossible to remove guns from Americans, for every one thats taken aware 10 more will be built with gas shock rods, plumbing parts or even composite materials.

I remember how Damascus barrel shotguns were made by wrapping wire around a dowel and soldering it, nowadays we have hi tensile spectra fishing braid, spools of MIG wire, carbon fibers.

Just imagine all those paintball guns had a different chemical in the paint mixture?

Its the will of the American people and the leaders that are usurped into office should pay more attention to, we the good citizens of America are quite good at being our own policemen.


29 posted on 02/01/2009 8:14:58 AM PST by Eye of Unk (How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words! SA)
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To: marktwain

“Let me explain the house rules. Follow the rules, we’ll get along like a house on fire. Rule number one: No noise, no questions. You make a noise...Mr. .44 makes a noise. You ask a question, Mr. .44 answers it.”


30 posted on 02/01/2009 8:15:47 AM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: George Smiley

The firearm is an open bolt design, from the picture, anything that will trip bolt movement and halt bolt movement will work. In an AR 15 the hammer hits a Firing pin, in an open bolt the bolt and firing pin are one unit.


31 posted on 02/01/2009 8:15:54 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
The vehicles I leave to others because I’m more likely to do more damage than correct a problem. “A man has got to know his limitations”

Same here.

The only time ANY of my vehicles have been in the shop is either for warranty work or safety recalls. I've rebuilt engines, rear axles, front axles, manual transmissions, and a few automatics (older 3-speeds), but I won't touch the newer ones (too many parts!)

Cars today, though, have become a haven for repairmen. Most of them require a degree in computer engineering to repair, vs. a hammer, screwdriver, and a pair of pliers....

32 posted on 02/01/2009 8:17:36 AM PST by dirtbiker (Obama is America's first Affirmative Action president....)
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To: org.whodat

I probably stand corrected, and will defer to your familiarity with Class IIIs.

I was just putting in my two cents worth based on the picture and what the cops said about it being a composite.


33 posted on 02/01/2009 8:18:29 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: marktwain
A large number of urban people’s idea of how to fix something is to call a repairman.

Yup. That's me. I don't have the time, natural talent, or inclination to repair a toilet. My plumber appreciates the business.

34 posted on 02/01/2009 8:18:34 AM PST by Glenn (Free Venezuela!)
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To: Tarpon
we have been told this for ages, you can’t build modern guns with hand tools,

And they're lying through their teeth.

There are villages on the Pakistani-Afghan border where you can drop off any sort of modern weapon and come back in two weeks and pick up a functioning copy of same.

And the do this without the use of power tools.

35 posted on 02/01/2009 8:21:26 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: MarkL

whoops, missed your post. great minds, hehehe.


36 posted on 02/01/2009 8:22:15 AM PST by George Smiley (They're not drinking the Kool-Aid any more. Now they're eating it straight out of the packet.)
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To: Grut

I’ve seen grainy footage of a basement factory somewhere in occupied Europe where they were pumping out gun parts using a press that looked like one of the old fashioned printing presses (large wheel attached to a giant threaded rod).


37 posted on 02/01/2009 8:23:38 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The Fairness Doctrine isn't about "Fairness" - it's about Doctrine.)
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To: marktwain

Know them? Hell, the country’s full of them at this point as you say. Many are so hopelessly stupid that they call you to fix a leak under their sink and it’s “new information” to them that all the junk has to be out of the cabinet to do it!


38 posted on 02/01/2009 8:24:07 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Glenn

I am sure that you have other talents that more than compensate.


39 posted on 02/01/2009 8:24:46 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
They have not the slightest idea of how plumbing, carpentry, or electrical systems work!

Plumbing is easy.

There are only 3 things you have to know about plumbing:
1. Hot is on the left,
2. Cold is on the right, and,
3. $h*t doesn't flow uphill....

40 posted on 02/01/2009 8:24:57 AM PST by dirtbiker (Obama is America's first Affirmative Action president....)
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To: marktwain; Tarpon

Where I live people think I’m some kind of NASCAR mechanic because I can change an alternator.


41 posted on 02/01/2009 8:25:09 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The Fairness Doctrine isn't about "Fairness" - it's about Doctrine.)
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To: marktwain

This thread is as interesting as the story.


42 posted on 02/01/2009 8:25:16 AM PST by Nephi (Like the failed promise of Fascism, masquerading as Capitalism? You're gonna love Marxism.)
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To: George Smiley
I always like the stories of where cops find double barreled full auto's myself.
43 posted on 02/01/2009 8:25:40 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

“Many are so hopelessly stupid”

Call me a stickler, but I do like to make the distinction between stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance can be cured.


44 posted on 02/01/2009 8:26:45 AM PST by marktwain
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To: org.whodat
Fully automatic weapons are much easier to make than semi-autos like the AR-15.

The bolt and firing pin are part of the bolt. Once the bolt returns against the chamber and cartridge, it punches the primer and detonates the round. The trigger merely holds the pin back without a complicated sear assembly.

This type of weapon is likely recoil operated, since gas operated requires a lug lock of some kind and tripping mechanism. All a recoil operated type requires, is a heavy bolt assy. and a strong spring to control barrel recoil.

This is an extremely simple and functional design. (accuracy excluded of course.)

45 posted on 02/01/2009 8:28:42 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (WHAT? Where did my tag line go? (ACORN))
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To: Nephi
Yes, this is an interesting thread. I've made a few homemade guns myself, quite legally, and it is not hard to do.

As I can earn enough in the couple of hours it takes to make one to buy a much nicer modern one (isn't the economic division of labor marvelous) I mostly buy ready-made.

46 posted on 02/01/2009 8:29:43 AM PST by marktwain
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To: buwaya

There were many variants of the weapon, they all functioned on the same principle of open bolt. There were hundreds of thousand of them in US and Canadian training camps in Canada, I’m sure some got lost, and no one searched duffel bags back in WWII war trophies were legal.


47 posted on 02/01/2009 8:30:03 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: George Smiley
Yeah it's weird how these third worlders can do it but somehow Americans couldn't. It's funny that so many believe it. Simple gunsmith skills comes with owning a gun.

So of the best knives(Buck) and swords used to be made from leaf springs, quick, someone tell the English.

48 posted on 02/01/2009 8:33:25 AM PST by Tarpon (America's first principles, freedom, liberty, market economy and self-reliance will never fail.)
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To: buwaya
“No, its not. It is only a passing resemblance. The details are quite different.”

You are correct. Even if it uses some cobbled together WWII greasegun parts, that does not make it a WWII greasegun.
49 posted on 02/01/2009 8:33:55 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Do homemade guns circumvent any firearms laws?


50 posted on 02/01/2009 8:35:20 AM PST by Nephi (Like the failed promise of Fascism, masquerading as Capitalism? You're gonna love Marxism.)
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