Posted on 02/04/2009 11:49:12 AM PST by patriotgal1787
Do you believe that the November 22, 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy was the result of shots fired by a lone assassin from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository?
Or are you one of many who believe it was a conspiracy that involved the highest levels of our government?
The case is not closed regarding what actually happened on that fateful day.
The late President Gerald R. Ford, the last surviving member of the commission admitted that the CIA destroyed pertinent documents, covering up the investigation of the assassination, in a recently published book.
Tim Miller, the book publisher who helped author the text, believes there was a conspiracy and that Ford knew even more than he told his publisher and the world. Ford shares many other breath-taking admissions with the reader in this, his final book, written three years prior to his own death.
What did Ford say about the "single bullet theory," the Zapruder film, and Oliver Stone’s movie, JFK?
"Who killed John F. Kennedy?"
Tim Miller joins us to discuss tonight at 9 p.m. ET -- link to the show here.
It was definitely the Dalai Lama. You forgot to allow for the Coriolis Effect, Dumkopf! It is posters like you who cause FR to lose respeck amongst intelectuals like Michael Medved.
Kindly return your foil chapeau to the Moderator. We know where your pets live.
Agree with all of your points - there’s a youtube video of a journalist who swears he saw Ruby at Parkland on Nov. 22. Later the Warren Commission insisted that the journalist was mistaken and he obviously was confusing what he thought he saw with what he actually saw. Or something like that. But the journalist says that he knows what he saw and he saw Ruby? Does that prove anything? Obviously not. But I tend to agree with you that Ruby is a key player and the stated reasons for doing what he did don’t really add up.
You have to keep in mind that the case was pretty conclusively solved within days of it happening. By the time LBJ formed the Warren Commission it was already clear that Oswald did the shooting.
Ha! That's what they want you to believe. The "staged moon landing" was *faked*! They want you to think that the moon landing never happened, so they faked the stage shots and photographic anomalies. When in fact, there were several *secret* moon landings taking place at the exact same time as the staged, televised ones! Why, you ask? Because, I answer, they wanted to hide the fact that there were no secret alien bases on the moon, because *that* was the reason for the secret funding of the real moon landings which were covered up by the staged fake moon landings to hide the secret real moon landings.
See, it all makes sense once you hold in enough smoke.
Hard to believe the goverbnor would personally pick the route for a motorcade. Approve maybe, select, no.
History or Discovery ran tests of Oswald’s steps during and after the assassination. Including walking across the floor and down to the break room. It all worked out. I don’t believe the lone gunman,. But I believe that Oswald could have done what was alledged or at least he had time to.
Would not stand up in court, and very unlikely he did use the stairs as it was a short period of time he had to use them. And the people using them didn’t see anyone.
***Witnesses not seeing him doesn’t mean he didn’t use the stairway.***
After the officials visited Oswald in the morgue he had ink on his body, not disputed. The Official story would not hold up in court.
***There is no evidence fingerprints were added later.***
Your behind on your research, there is plenty. There is more known about Oswald in the year 2009 than JFK or anyone else involved. More has come out on Oswald recently, one example being the 700+ page book written by his mistress who spent most of her time with him in New Orleans in 63. She was privy to his ‘Intel’ assignments in detail. People just don’t realize what info is out there, suggest search keywords on Amazon. There is weeks worth of reading available to anyone interested.
***There’s no evidence he had any “Intel orders” to do anything.***
I show that there is more than enough information for any reasonable person to see it, understand that people heard it AND that you don’t have to believe incredible violations of simple physics. The last two shots were BANG-BANG.
NONE of the things shown in this simple YOUTUBE video PROVES anything but there is more after this simple introduction:
three witnesses say the last two shots were BANG-BANG two shots fired very close together (there are more who heard the two shots close together).
John Connally says the force of the bullet bent him over (seen AFTER Kennedy’s head shot)
Nellie says John Connally turned to look over his shoulder and then was hit. Sit in your seat and imagine you have an exit wound in your chest the size of a baseball (a few inches of his rib was blown away). It’s ridiculous to think he turned with his back/chest/right arm wound with this turn that took over 5 seconds BEFORE he is bent over.
What started me on this review several years ago was the fact that several Parkland Doctors talk about the large wound in the back of JFK’s head. It is simply not credible to believe these Doctors and Nurses lied or were simply mistaken. It happened like the witnesses said it did, not what a corrupt government came up with.
Connally’s head snaps downward starting at Z325, faster than anyone could move, that marks the point the bullet hit him in the back (this has never been documented before that I am aware of). Do the math, there’s enough momentum in the bullet to knock him over like this IF most of the momentum was transferred to him (same when Kennedy is knocked backwards on the head shot).
You think automatically that it couldn’t be this easy, the biggest “mystery” in history? You’ll find out that it’s not a mystery, it’s been a SECRET.
This lie is going to die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8_kIDP4EQ0
When I was a young lad of about 10, I would race my Aunt's elevator by using the stairs. She was on the third floor. I could beat her going down, but up, the elevator beat me about half the time. This was a matter of 15 seconds, or less, for a 10-year-old to go three flights. For Oswald to go 4 flights down, would likely be no different. Also, going down, I was rarely out of breath or sweating. Going up? Different story.
But competent enough to take over control of most banks, lending institutions and competent enough to aid and abet a violent illegal invasion of our country by millions, while forcing law abiding citizens to subsidize their own demise...All in broad day light.
Naw, never happen.
Wrong, Dog. The shots were all under 100 yards, and in a straight line going away. Think Bubba dead drunk in a deer stand. Piece of bloody cake.
The Carcano, which many of us utes owned in Ye Bad Olden Days, because for $20 you could have one sent to your house along with 100 rounds of corrosive primer 6.5 X 52 WWII (or earlier) fmj ammo. Cheap and cheaply made.
Cleaned up, this crappy-looking thing shot fast, and slick, and believe it or not, it was pretty accurate ... beer bottle at 50 yds with open sights ... no problem.
Plus, when you ran out of the funky round nose bullets, it could be used to prop open garage windows
That much is known. The rest of this are allegations made in the article. Jackie did not get along with the rest of the Kennedys, as they were only one generation away from bootlegging, had mob connections, and we know about the various scandals, rapes, drugs, etc., that went on with the family. She had a choice. Go into the Kennedy family, or find another rich guy.
She married Onassis shortly after Bobby was assassinated, and she desperately feared for the life of her children. She was close to Bobby (there are rumors he banged her a few times.)
Onassis was rich, but needed a trophy wife, Jackie needed someplace to get her kids where they wouldn't be the target of assassination attempts. A rich guy that owned islands was a perfect choice.
Well he did. Or a least he had his dog with him when he got the impluse. No planning to the shot.
I did, and I couldn’t make the shot. But then again I don’t shoot. On the other hand, from the Grassy Knoll, I could have done it with a slingshot.
That's not what I said. The route was determined by the destination. It was a choice between two, in different parts of town. The governor pressured for the one that was chosen, and that determined the route.
What wouldn't stand up in court? You made the claim about him not being able to use the stairs, it's that claim that has to stand up or not. There were no people using the stairs at the time. He could have, and did, easily made it to the break room.
"Your behind on your research, there is plenty. There is more known about Oswald in the year 2009 than JFK or anyone else involved. More has come out on Oswald recently, one example being the 700+ page book written by his mistress who spent most of her time with him in New Orleans in 63. She was privy to his ‘Intel’ assignments in detail. People just don’t realize what info is out there, suggest search keywords on Amazon. There is weeks worth of reading available to anyone interested."
You need to understand that there's been a lot of garbage written about this case. Just because you can read some stuff in a book doesn't mean it is true. All those conspiracy books make crap up, or repeat old crap that someone else made up. The actual evidence is often completely different than what the conspiracy books tell you it is.
We still don't have a witness that saw Oswald use the elevator or stairs. Excuse my Perry Mason approach to evidence.
BTW, did anyone listen to the radio show in the original posted link? It was an informative.
***When I was a young lad of about 10, I would race my Aunt's elevator by using the stairs. She was on the third floor. I could beat her going down, but up, the elevator beat me about half the time. This was a matter of 15 seconds, or less, for a 10-year-old to go three flights. For Oswald to go 4 flights down, would likely be no different. Also, going down, I was rarely out of breath or sweating. Going up? Different story.***
From the ricocheting bullet which cracked the armourglass windscreen as it bounced off.
Yes I was just ricocheting above. There was no right side foreward hit. That was an exit wound.
I was the all comers champion shooter for our gun club the only time I competed, I didn’t win the prize because I neglected to list four hits on steel turkeys and after cards were turned in they could not be altered. But I did have the most hits and by three.
I think I could have made the shot but it is not by any means easy, and any one who says it is, is either lying, fooling himself, or a superior shot. One thing which stuck in my mind was when the FBI was testing the rifle, they discovered the scope was not zeroed very well. If he hit it was by luck. Of course that doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. I think he did but it was sheer luck.
***He could have, and did, easily made it to the break room.***
IMO, In the order of ‘garbage’ written on the JFK case here's how I rate them from worst first.
1.Warren Commission
2.Mainstream Media
3.Websites repeating the ‘official Story’, some being govt disinformation
4. Of the 2000+ books written there are a few garbage books like Posner & Bugliosi, and others, but the majority are objective (one can tell by how they are written). Most honestly written books on the JFK case usually cover a micro investigation of some facet of the event, or post info. Rarely do they disagree on the basic established facts of the research community which BTW includes liberals & conservatives mutually working towards an answer.
And I do understand that our ‘House’ concluded there was probably a conspiracy in the JFK case, with extreme pressure being put on them to obstruct evidence.
***You need to understand that there's been a lot of garbage written about this case. Just because you can read some stuff in a book doesn't mean it is true. All those conspiracy books make crap up, or repeat old crap that someone else made up. The actual evidence is often completely different than what the conspiracy books tell you it is.***
Yes I've seen the photo. There are similarities for sure.
Isn’t this about the point in the thread that somebody posts the picture of Billy Lovelady?
Yep. Ruby was full of himself. Always the showman and wanting to be the center of attention.
Ha...I think your right about that...From what I recall wasn’t Lovelady a dead end?
In the end it is all numerology. You heretic!!!! :-)
Here is the Autopsy with photos, argue with these people. The first shot got Kennedy in the neck from rear to front. The next shot got Kennedy in the right temple from front to rear. Kennedy was sitting on the right side of the car. The bullet was not a ricochet, unless it was a curve ball. There is also a .45 cal bullet wound into the right side of the head above the ear, explain that. So says the pathologist who conducted the autopsy.
Sorta difficult to argue with the autopsy isnt it?
Can you give a cite on that point?
Here is the autopsy with photos, argue with this.
Here is the autopsy with photos, argue with this.
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/Issues_and_evidence/Frontal_shot(s)/Tobias_frontal_shots/Tobias—Ballistics_Findings.html
Here is the autopsy with photos, feast on it.
Here's what's puzzling me. That article was not written by J J Humes CDR, MC, USN, 497831, Chief of Pathology at Bethesda, who conducted the real autopsy. Nor is he referenced in the article.
You can explain? Go.
Funny!
These threads just ain't what they used to be.
It's important to keep in mind what a witness can tell you, and what they can't. A witness can only relate their recall of their perceptions. They can't necesarily tell you what really happened, and they certainly can't tell you something beyond what they can perceive with their senses.
Because of the nature of perception and memory, witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence there is. But even when a witness has perfect recall, they can still only tell what they perceive.
A witness may perceive two sounds close together. They can't know the sounds are due to individual gunshots. There are other possible explanations. One of which is that the sense of time can be distorted in a sudden shock. Anyone that's been in an accident can tell you that.
"John Connally says the force of the bullet bent him over (seen AFTER Kennedy’s head shot)"
It is your interpretation that a bullet hit him after the head shot. It is much clearer that he was hit at 223 when the bullet bulges out his jacket and after striking his wrist causes the hat in his hand to fly up in front of his face.
"Nellie says John Connally turned to look over his shoulder and then was hit."
Which he does before 223.
"What started me on this review several years ago was the fact that several Parkland Doctors talk about the large wound in the back of JFK’s head. It is simply not credible to believe these Doctors and Nurses lied or were simply mistaken. It happened like the witnesses said it did, not what a corrupt government came up with."
Witnesses do not trump xrays and photos and pathologists. However, there are explanations that bring all this into synch. The autopsy documents that the back of the skull was fragmented and there were sections of bone held on just by flaps of scalp. One in the rear was likely loose in the emergency room, then placed into position for the autopsy examination.
Sure.
"Connally, for reasons that are still in dispute, was absolutely insistent upon holding the luncheon at the new Trade Mart, near the airport along the Stemmons Freeway. Kennedy and O'Donnell wanted to hold it at the Women's Building, near the Fairgrounds. The Secret Service concurred, believing that the Women's Building would be easier to secure. Connally perhaps wanted to limit the size of the crowd, excluding as many of Yarborough's supporters as he could. Yarborough pushed for the larger Women's Building. In the event, Connally got his way, threatening to pull his support if the Trade Mart was not chosen. O'Donnell felt he had no choice but to go along.(12)"12 Reston, p. 642 (excerpt from Jerry Bruno's diary)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dallas.txt
His rifle, with his prints on it, was found on the sixth floor.
His prints were found on boxes making up the sniper's nest.
A homemade paper bag the right size to conceal the rifle was found on the sixth floor with his prints on it.
He was seen in the window during the shooting by witnesses on the ground. A description based on statements from those witnesses went out over the radio and matched Oswald's description.
He lied about where he was at the time when questioned.
All you are doing is selecting the things you don't want to believe and calling them "garbage", because you don't want to believe them. That's not how to find the truth.
Calling Bugliosi and Posner garbage while calling the majority of the 2,000 others objective just proves the point. There is no reasoning with someone who approaches the case like this.
"And I do understand that our ‘House’ concluded there was probably a conspiracy in the JFK case, with extreme pressure being put on them to obstruct evidence."
There was no pressue to obstruct evidence.
Regarding the House's conclusion, you better look at it closely. They decided that Oswald fired three shots from the sixth floor, hitting Kennedy and Connally. Exactly as the Warren Commission said. At the very end, based on an isolated and questionable piece of evidence, they tacked on a supposed fourth shot that missed everything and for which there has never been any other evidence.
That extra shot was added based on an acoustic analysis of noise on a DPD radio recording and was later debunked by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences.
Huh? None of the pathologists found a .45 cal bullet wound to the side of the head.
I can tell you they told us all you report, but most people did not buy it back then no matter how much the media tried to convince us it was so.
He was very conservative when compared to Johnson. For instance...Kennedy supported tax cuts... at the worst he likely would be a liberal Republican by todays standards.
Twas Lee Harvey Oswald, my friend. :)
doesn’t say anything about selecting the route.
Cuber wouldn't be ruled by communists if the US government had finished Castro off years ago in an action designed to win.
Oswald. Only.
It was about selecting the destination. The route depended on the destination. That’s what I said earlier.
Would have been a little difficult, it was about 5-and-a-1/2 years before my time.
I'm just saying that time was not an issue, as, if he was the shooter, he could have easily traversed 4 flights in a matter of seconds. Lack of witnesses was not my point.
Read it before. His 'conclusions' are based on some presupposition that the Groden 'doctored' photos are indication of some sinister conspiracy.
For one, his artice has a number of 'We have no proof that the final frontal shot was from a Carcano nor do we know what bullets were used thus the following is just academic speculation as to what is possible. " and " I have never shot taped melons like Alverez" or this little gem "this would be a fifth bullet which is not supported by existing photo and medical evidence"
His math is correct for the most part on the kinetic energies, BUT he does not take into account
the movement of the vehicle(15 mph vs 3mph he states),
the direction of the 'jet effect', which didn't really occur,
the physiology of the human body when it loses all muscle control,
the effect of wearing that horrible back brace on the same body
the loss of velocity from the TSBD to the target (approx 1/3)
or by using the drawing below, how that '45' bullet he states is used arrived where it is supposedly found.
/Tobias_frontal_shots/Photos/Dealey22.jpg)
And no matter what the conjecture is from the article...this is not a bullet, much less a 45. /Tobias_frontal_shots/Photos/Close-15.jpg)
The bottom line in all of this is simple.
1. Oswald acted alone.
OR
2. Some sinister encompassing conspiracy of Cubans, the mob, and the CIA, with untold numbers of people knowing about it, but not talking all these years, killed Kennedy.
And there is one very important item that is overlooked in almost all the books written. Posner got it right and it shows in Zapruder.
Abraham Zapruder had vertigo, his secretary supported him as he shot the film.
Each time a shot is fired the camera jiggles in reaction, and loses focus. It occurs 3 times, and 3 times only.
If only everyone read “Case Closed” we wouldn’t need to deal with this s**t time and time again.
They base their judgement on what Kennedy was, and not on what Oswald had become. A failure at everything.
Who verified that the hand writing and voice were authentic. I so no mention of either in the article. Who besides the son has seen these papers and tape?
By all accounts E. Howard Hunt was a selfish, grandiose man, a narcissist, who was frequently very cruel to this “damaged” son of his. Maybe this was his last cruelty.
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