Posted on 02/04/2009 11:49:12 AM PST by patriotgal1787
Do you believe that the November 22, 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy was the result of shots fired by a lone assassin from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository?
Or are you one of many who believe it was a conspiracy that involved the highest levels of our government?
The case is not closed regarding what actually happened on that fateful day.
The late President Gerald R. Ford, the last surviving member of the commission admitted that the CIA destroyed pertinent documents, covering up the investigation of the assassination, in a recently published book.
Tim Miller, the book publisher who helped author the text, believes there was a conspiracy and that Ford knew even more than he told his publisher and the world. Ford shares many other breath-taking admissions with the reader in this, his final book, written three years prior to his own death.
What did Ford say about the "single bullet theory," the Zapruder film, and Oliver Stone’s movie, JFK?
"Who killed John F. Kennedy?"
Tim Miller joins us to discuss tonight at 9 p.m. ET -- link to the show here.
I really don't understand the point you are making about Connely or are you just trying to state a fact?
Obviously, the best pick for a patsy for those who really did gain from Kennedys death.
Kennedy had issued an Executive order for the cease of Viet Nam and the immediate pull out. The first thing Johnson did—while on the plane—was take out of his briefcase his first Executive Order and SIGN IT ON THE PLANE—to rescind Kennedys order. Coincidence? No, I dont think so. Johnson knew. He knew it was going to happen, otherwise, why did he have the papers already prepared? Too much stuff doesnt add up for Oswald to be the only player. He lacked the intellect, and he lacked the resources to put that together alone. He was there and he was a player, but he wasnt alone. That’s my story and I am sticking to it.
The decision was made to make the two turns, one on Hudson and then a greater than 90 degree on Elm St, both of which are against SS policy, and connects directly to the Stemmons Frwy.
The route had been published a few days before.
Ah, yes, the dreaded “GRASSY KNOLL”
Someone raised the suspicion about who chose the route. I'm pointing out that the choice of route was dependent on the destination, and that was insisted on by the governor, who was also a victim.
As for being more than one way to get there, look at a map of Dallas. If you want to go from Love Field to the Trade Mart while having a motorcade down Main St, there really were no choices involved.
This is not true. There is no such order.
There is no route from Main St to the freeway. You say it would have had to cross a median, like it was a choice. It would have had to jump the curb and drive over a raised divider.
I always found it odd, that the motorcade route was so concvenient for Oswald. Didn't he start work there before the trip was planned ot at least before the route was known? Or is it alleged that he heard about the route and then decided to take advantage of it?
Was it a coincidence or just some quirk of fate?
Thanx. I knew the second part.
Means: He had the rifle. He had already taken a shot at Edwin Walker with it.
Motive: He was trying to prove to Marina what a 'great man' he was, and after their argument the previous weekend, he was set to show her. His trip out to see her during the workweek (which he had never done before), and pick up the rifle, days before the motorcade, indicates pre-meditation.
Opportunity: He knew the route would go right by his place of work, and he could set things up to hide his rifle and where to shoot from. He had two days to plan it.
The killing of Kennedy is not about what Johnson did after, or that Kennedy was even the one killed.
The real story is about Oswald.
A lonely, lowly, pathetic example of uneducated, unsophisticated, failure at everything he attempted, individual who wanted greatness, but would never achieve it in any normal capacity.
Yes, it would have had to jump the curb. Kinda uncouth for a President. that is why the change to turn on Hudson and then to Elm.
I said before, it was a crime of opportunity. He didn't plot it out well in advance. He probably had it in his mind since he saw the route published in the paper, and didn't decide for certain until the night before when Marina rebuffed his attempt to patch things up.
There may have been hundreds of potential assassins we never found out about because opportunity and circumstance didn't line up. This time it did.
Personally, I've had a president drive right by me, to my surprise. There have also been several occasions where I could easily positioned myself along a president's route.
Naturally, I'm no threat. But there are people out there that are and the same circumstances happen to them.
My point is, it wasn't a change. That's the way the road went. Nobody ever intended to follow a path the road didn't take.
Castro organized it.
Thanx
You sound like Bugliosi.
I am aware of all these "excuses", fairy tales and other "explanations".
If you watched the video you saw that Connally's head snaps downward faster than anyone could move it (2 frames, approx 1/10 of a second) and you continue to repeat Bugloisian explanations. That is the point the bullet hit him in the back. Dale Meyers is famous for the lapel bulge at Z224 but that is NOT the point the bullet hit him in the back. Connally simply raises his shoulders as he snaps around to look to his left then he snaps around to look to his right which is where he thought the shot was fired from.
For FIVE SECONDS Connally turns, no sane person could believe that he has a major back/chest wound and he'd turn like this. He isn't shot in the back until 5 seconds later. That's why this is a mystery, too many witnesses disagree witht the "official" findings which are nothing but bundled lies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8_kIDP4EQ0
Regards!
By now, so many people have duplicated the actual shots fired by LHO, with the same cheap-o equipment, that your proposition simply doesn't hold water. Superior shot needed? Well, a good shot, anyway. AS always, good luck certainly is no handicap.
In re the FBI testing Oswald's rifle: in the time elapsed between the deed and the test, having been in police custody, and having been handled (or even mis-handled) by all and sundry, it is no surprise that a low-end scope would need to be re-zeroed. However, in their conclusions, the FBI allowed as how the LHO-single shooter theory was quite plausible.
Speaking of 6.5mm, I still own a 6.5X 55 Swede, which, a bit hotter than the 6.5 X 52, and the 6.5 X 54 and uses spitzer bullets rather than round-nosers, is a 200m "tack-driver" on the range without a scope. Very easy recoil, very easy target re-acquisition. The next step in combat rifles for the USA may well involve a 6.5 or 6.8 MM configuration. The Dutch, The Greeks, The Italians, The Swedes, The Norwegians, all came up with the 6.5 MM as their military answer to the range, penetration, lethality, accuracy compromise. BTW. The penetration achievable with a long, slim 6.5mm FMJ can be quite something, sometimes blowing through a whitetail and coming out the other side ... or close to it ... looking pretty good. I for one, have never had that much of a problem with the "Magic Bullet," especially since new research shows how Connally and JFK were lined up when struck.
I am reasonably satisfied that LHO was the sole shooter. The real question is who directed him. Again, I vote Fidel... who coopted the Mob ... and who had KGB help.
While I think the Carcano is a bit of a clunker, it certainly is capable of doing the job. I have no arguments with those who say the equipment was capable.
Now as far as those saying the shot was easy, I flat out disagree, at least for a mediocre shot with a scope which is not sighted in properly.
As I have said before, I think Oswald probably was the lone shooter and was really lucky or unlucky depending on your point of view. The fact that it could be done is enough tho the fact that it is a bit unlikely adds to the skepticism of many.
I do have questions as to who put Oswald up to it. I have an open mind but think it is likely someone else was involved.
I wonder about that too but I've never seen anyone question the authenticity. Many question the veracity. Fair enough IMO. It does not affect my opinion of LBJ.
I remember judge "Maximum" John Sirica. I'd forgotten that G. Gordon Liddy was not the only "victim." Hunt got 35 years, I read that he served 33 months of hell.
Years later he is quoted "I cannot escape feeling that the country I have served for my entire life and which directed me to carry out the Watergate entry is punishing me for doing the very things it trained and directed me to do."
So here's a super-sized ego and patriot who feels betrayed getting even with Washington?
Regardless of Hunt, et al I am sure of my memories of LBJ and I am always reminded of Rasputin -- I have from those days that like Rasputin's body LBJ's body should be disinterred and burned. BTW, this has nothing to do with Viet Nam, it's his whole "service" to our Country
Bugliosi is an experienced criminal lawyer. He knows how to evaluate evidence.
It is a fact that there are other possible explanations. Witness perceptions are not gospel. The human mind is not a recording device.
Oh well.
Trouble is channels like these have been compromised by threats of lawsuits, and the govt. If they air information negative to the govt they get pressured to retract it, usually someone can be found to sue as a cover story for the real reason.
In 2003 History debut’d 3 new additional ‘Men Who Killed Kennedy’ 1 hour segments. They basically solved the JFK case, no more mystery. The were forced to halt DVD sales and the segments and apologize.
These 3 segments covered the Limo deathbed story from a key Detroit employee, the search for a cosmetic specialist right after the assassination, info on LBJ involvement, and a one hour story about Oswald's mistress who was privy to what he was really doing in NO’s in 63.
***History or Discovery ran tests of Oswald’s steps during and after the assassination. Including walking across the floor and down to the break room. It all worked out. I don’t believe the lone gunman,. But I believe that Oswald could have done what was alledged or at least he had time to.***
There are some in respectable positions who believe that these photos were “doctored”. Opinions are very emotionally divided on this subject. There are just too many things out of the realm of acceptable protocol with regard to this case for me to believe that it was as simple as Oswald by himself. I remember the day it happened. I bought a copy of the Warren Report when it was first released and still have it. I have been interested in this and have read everything that I could lay hands on about it. I have associates who are privy to inside info who have made comments both ways. It will be debated for a long time to come,,,emotionally I’m sure.
NO PROPER CHAIN OF EVIDENCE to prove anything, unless you want to blindly believe the govt, much like ppl who believed the bailout stories the first week.
You may recall the running battle right after the assassination between the Govt, Mainstream Media, and the citizens.
The govt story never made sense from the beginning. This is why the public got involved, and to this day the majority believe there was a conspiracy in addition to our own ‘House’ opinion.
***His rifle, with his prints on it, was found on the sixth floor.
His prints were found on boxes making up the sniper's nest.
A homemade paper bag the right size to conceal the rifle was found on the sixth floor with his prints on it.
He was seen in the window during the shooting by witnesses on the ground***
It's much more difficult to accept your govt doing it than a lone nut.
It was disappointing to see the look of shock and fear in Garrison's staff when their research led them directly to the govt and they realized it.
Garrison's book is an informative read, or at least watch the movie JFK. There's a scene where his staff are at a restaurant and the realization hits home. I think they realized then there was no going back after that, and they were also shocked when the govt opposed them rather than help them find the truth.
***There will always be those that will never accept that the erratic, angry, lonely Oswald could murder Kennedy.***
To accept the government, et al, had anything to do with the murder of Kennedy would require an untold number of people to, be involved, be knowledgable, and be able to keep a secret. That means the Dallas PD involvement since they did the search of the TSBD and found the rifle, it means the officers DOING the search had to take the rifle in, plant it, then 'discover' it, 'discover' the boxes Oswald used, plant empty cases, fingerprints, fried chicken bones(Oswalds lunch) all while being filmed. You'd have to believe Oswald had a better getaway plan, rather than try to WALK away from his apartment.
We've had books on fake photos, fake autopsy, SS shooters, doctored corpses, mob shooters, CIA shooters, multiple rifles, Cubans, Russians, theories about Johnson, Connoly, Tippit, even Kennedys personal detail in the car. There has not been one credible piece of evidence (other than heresay) that has brought to light any names of other shooters, or of any evidences of other shooters.
Like I said previously, you either have to believe in a multitude of conspiritors or Oswald alone in a vain attempt to make himself important to Marina.
These are poor quality versions. The labels were added by the person using the photos to support their argument. That person says there is a 45 cal wound in the side. None of the doctors said that. I believe this person also has the photos oriented the wrong way.
Discovery aired the program he was talking about. One of several they've done.
"Trouble is channels like these have been compromised by threats of lawsuits, and the govt. If they air information negative to the govt they get pressured to retract it, usually someone can be found to sue as a cover story for the real reason."
Completely false. The government has threatened none of these channels. The only threat of lawsuits was from people being slandered. There have been plenty of programs aired on both sides of the issue.
"In 2003 History debut’d 3 new additional ‘Men Who Killed Kennedy’ 1 hour segments. They basically solved the JFK case, no more mystery. The were forced to halt DVD sales and the segments and apologize."
No, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" did not solve the case. That show is one of the worst series of programs ever done. They are the Weekly World News of JFK assassination programs. Nearly everything in them is false.
The movie JFK is a work of fiction, not history. Please don't cite that for anything.
I haven’t read the entire thread but has anyone mentioned Keith Hernandez’ role and the gravely road?
There is a separate program merely dealing with Oswald's physical movements after the assassination. They didn't try to say he killed Kennedy or Tippett. They just put him in the various places and re-enacted what his movements would have been to see if it was physically possible. BTW the movements were possible.
Ah, Yes, the Grassy Knoll, the term probably started by the SS agents interviewed in the early UPI article stating they thought rapid gunfire came from there. Of course they changed their stories as I’m sure they were pressured to do. Though I think one of the closest to the president witnesses Jean Hill said she used the term that day too.
I’ve seen and read this early UPI article in a 11/22/63 Michigan newspaper that exists today!
***Ah, yes, the dreaded “GRASSY KNOLL”***
Does anyone believe his book about the JFK assassination and disbelieve his book about Bush?
***Bugliosi is an experienced criminal lawyer. He knows how to evaluate evidence. ***
I haven't read his Bush book, but he clearly is a victim of BDS.
I have read his JFK book. No book that size could be perfect, but it is the best most complete account of the case to be had. If you want to know what the evidence really is and what really happened, there's no better place to start.
Anyone who relies on the Mainstream Media wouldn't know about this. As they don't report on it. There is a wealth of information these people wrote about what they did.
There is a wealth of information of people who tried to tell the govt about the JFK assassination. It was discovered that they weren't accepting information. That's right!
Research about the Revele (not sure if that's exactly right) investigation about the Marseilles assassins hired through the mob for our intel (They would fit in good and looked more like Americans and could be disposed of. I believe there is an Men who Killed Kennedy segment on this where when the investigation was completed he tried to turn it over to the govt to verify and make official. They were not interested! Why?
There was a deaf mute who went to the authorities about activity on the Grassy Knoll, they weren't interested.
Look what happened to the mob leaders testifying at the House Committee on assassinations about it.
The book Regicide has photocopies of an intel ‘conference record’ listing the 20 or so people involved in the plot.
There were witnesses who complained to Garrison that the authorities would not accept their accounts.
The authorities took Jean Hill into custody that day and told her not to say a thing to anybody about the shot she saw from the Knoll.
Why weren't all the many Knoll witnesses not included in the official investigation?
This is the tip of the iceburg, there really needs to be an in-depth book listing all these accounts together.
***To accept the government, et al, had anything to do with the murder of Kennedy would require an untold number of people to, be involved, be knowledgable, and be able to keep a secret.***
Thanx
Here's a good example of the garbage that has been published about this case. The author of Regicide, "Gregory Douglas", is a fraud and a forger.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/2002/100602.html
How can this be? And anyone who supports the official line is truthful and so believable they don't even need to be checked out.
Reading the book Regicide stands on it's own, just by the way it's written and what's in it. There is much more info in it than just the conference record, and there are always names attached to that info. This makes the book worth at least checking out and researching a little. There are people who sware by it too, especially ppl in that community.
“The book Regicide has photocopies of an intel ‘conference record’ listing the 20 or so people involved in the plot.”
***Here's a good example of the garbage that has been published about this case. The author of Regicide, “Gregory Douglas”, is a fraud and a forger.***
“Kennedy had issued an Executive order for the cease of Viet Nam and the immediate pull out.”
***This is not true. There is no such order.***
Like it or not, the document in Regicide is fake.
We do this every year around the third week of November.
I say that it was not Oswald, and certainly not anyone alone. See you in about 10 months, but meanwhile I shall consider this book.
It was if you were JFK.
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