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Shocker: Electronic Money Market Run Nearly Destroyed US Economy
RushLimbaugh.com ^ | February 10th | Rush

Posted on 02/11/2009 3:03:27 AM PST by Halfmanhalfamazing

RUSH: I want you to listen to this, Paul Kanjorski. He's a Democrat member of Congress from Pennsylvania. He was on C-SPAN's Washington Journal on January 27th.

KANJORSKI: On Thursday at about 11 o'clock in the morning --

RUSH: Stop the tape a second. Go back and recue this. He's talking about September the 18th here. Let me tease you even further. September the 18th is the day last year that the world economy almost came to an end. Don't smirk. It's true, Snerdley. That's what Kanjorski is saying. So he's talking here about Thursday, September the 18th.

KANJORSKI: On Thursday at about 11 o'clock in the morning the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States, to the tune of $550 billion was being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two. The Treasury opened up its window to help. It pumped $105 billion in the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide; we were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn't be further panic out there.

RUSH: Do you remember this? This is the day I think that the Atlanta banks ran out of one-hundred-dollar bills. But now stop and think of this: A $550 billion withdrawal from money market funds in one-to-two hours. I am convinced -- and there's one more sound bite to go here -- I am convinced that this is what they took to the White House and said to President Bush, "We have got a disaster, you have got to get on board with a bailout," which came later on in October, "you've got to get on board with this $700 billion, the TARP 1," all because 550 -- now, what precipitated this? Here's the second Kanjorski sound bite.

KANJORSKI: If they had not done that, their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, five-and-a-half trillion dollars would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed. It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. We're really no better off today than we were three months ago because we've had a decrease in the equity positions of banks because other assets are going sour by the moment.

RUSH: Now, this is January 27th, Kanjorski is talking about this, and we have to allow, since Kanjorski is a Democrat he's part of the Pelosi team, we have to allow that some of his comment here is being flavored. When he ends up saying we're no better off today than we were three months ago, some of this is obviously oriented toward panic and getting people to go along with the bailout today, but let's leave that aside because that's traditional Democrat Party politics. If they had not done that, if that $550 billion-dollar withdrawal in an hour or two had not been stopped, if they hadn't closed the windows, he says that five-and-a-half trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States. Now, when I hear money market I think of savings accounts, higher interest rates than passbook savings at the old downtown building and loan where people park their money temporarily 'til they decide where to put it permanently. He says five-and-a-half trillion would have vanished from the banking system, would have collapsed the entire economy of the US and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.

Now, we've gotta allow here for some exaggeration. It's amazing this was said on C-SPAN on Thursday, January 27th, and nobody picked up on it. We got it from a website called LiveLeak. They were rummaging through things, and they found this. Now, let's assume for a second here that elements of this are true. Let's assume that there was a $550 billion run, electronic run on the banks and money market accounts in one to two hours. The question is who was doing this? Who was withdrawing all this money? And the next question is why? That's where my mind starts exploding, and this is dangerous to have these explosions going this way. Could it have been George Soros? Could it have been a consortium of countries -- Russia, China, Venezuela -- countries that are eager to have Barack Obama elected because they know that will make it easier for them to continue their own foreign policies in the world? In the meantime, five-and-a-half billion dollars in one to two hours, that can probably be confirmed. The five-and-a-half trillion is speculation based on the rate at which money was coming out. We could check that the Fed stopped the trading windows, they closed the window. We do know they were pumping money into the system left and right. And remember when the Federal Reserve loaned elements, $2 trillion and we weren't told who got the money? And we still haven't been told who got the money.

We know that last fall, the Federal Reserve lent $2 trillion to somebody or a series of somebodies, and we still don't know where it went. We know last year that we had a crisis on our hands and everybody was saying if we didn't do this today the country was finished and they got Bush on board, they got Paulson on board. Obviously this kind of news, if somebody from the Fed shows up and Bernanke and Paulson say, "Hey, we got a chance here of losing five-and-a-half trillion dollars if we don't do something," I mean that's gotta scare anybody into some sort of action to stem the tide. RUSH: We have an AP-Obama story here that targets the date of this run on money market accounts to September 16th. It was Kanjorski on C-SPAN on January 27th, said it was Thursday the 18th. Here's the AP story: "A money-market mutual fund that 'broke the buck' amid a rush of orders to pull out cash has begun returning an initial $26 billion to investors who had been unable to access their money for more than a month. ... On Sept. 16, the rapid sell-off of assets caused the value of fund assets to fall to 97 cents for each investor dollar put in -- the first instance in 14 years of a money-market mutual fund 'breaking the buck,' or having its per-share value fall below $1. Reserve Management froze redemption orders. That led institutional investors to pull out cash..." I think both dates are right. September 16th, the rapid sell-off begins and "[t]hat led institutional investors to pull out cash from that fund and others, creating fears about the safety of the $3.4 trillion in assets held in money-market funds, and a new temporary government money fund guarantee program.'" It's sort of just a casual, hey, no-big-deal kind of story from the Associated Press -- and here again is Kanjorski talking about this. Let's go back to these two sound bites, Paul Kanjorski (Democrat-Pennsylvania) on C-SPAN's Washington Journal on January 27th.

KANJORSKI: On Thursday at about 11 o'clock in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to the tune of $550 billion was like being drawn out in a matter of an hour or two. The Treasury opened up its window to help. They pumped $105 billion in the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide; we were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn't be further panic out there.

RUSH: By the way, I should tell you that Kanjorski's source for this is none other than Bernanke -- Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve -- and the Treasury secretary, Hank Paulson. They are the two figures that told members of Congress what was going on with this initial run of $550 billion, an electronic run on the banks, money market accounts, investor accounts here. He goes on to say this, if they had not stepped in to stop this, if they had not closed the window...

KANJORSKI: If they had not done that, their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5-1/2 trillion dollars would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed. It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. We're really no better off today than we were three months because we had a decrease in the equity positions of banks because other assets are going sour by the moment.

RUSH: So the last part, I think that's just salesmanship for doing something now to get the stimulus bill passed, although Kanjorski is among some Democrats starting to shift to the cant that more time is needed to make a correct decision this time; which I think is one of the reasons Geithner postponed his announcement to today from last week or even today. So, you know, I have been suspicious of all this that happened last fall. It just seemed too perfectly timed. Now we know that these are not individual money market accounts like you would have had to withdraw your money. This is money invested in a mutual fund money market account. So it is quite possible somebody could have started a run on this thing and the word spread, and it did -- and the $550 billion withdrawal in one hour would panic anybody. So there's so much to this. You know, it's always the case that there's so much more going on in all this that we don't know. The Drive-By Media, any longer, is worthless in ferreting out the truth involved in events. They totally exist on the surface. They exist with a path of least resistance particularly with Democrats in power, because with the presumption that Democrats could abuse power or commit ethics violations just doesn't even cross the radar. It doesn't even show up on the radar. It's not possible for Democrats to behave in that fashion, and so all this stuff goes on below the surface and we find out about it much later after the fact.


TOPICS: Editorial; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 110th; bailout; democratcongress; democrats; economy; financialcrisis; fundedbysoros; impeachobama; kanjorski; obama; octobersurprise; rush; socialism; sorocrats; soros; talkradio
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To: palmer

Yeah, I agree...it would have been far better for the feds to rescue Lehman rather than ever enacting TARP.


101 posted on 02/11/2009 7:13:12 AM PST by nyconse
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Read Later


102 posted on 02/11/2009 7:24:44 AM PST by TalBlack
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To: JACKRUSSELL

Soros is the most evil, heartless, destructive man in the world. I would think he is the Anti-Christ, except the Anti-Christ is supposed to be attractive and Soros is mega-ugly. The money he has made destroying other countries’ currencies is funding communist propaganda in the media, entertainment, and groups like MoveOn.org. His tentacles reach everywhere. I also believe he is the one pulling O’s strings. O couldn’t even handle the intro remarks at his press conference yesterday without his teleprompter! O can’t think for himself; he’s just an empty suit. O is Not Ready For Primetime and someone has to do his thinking for him. I believe it is Soros. Soros has said publicly that he wants to destroy this country and his organizations are doing a good job of it right now.


103 posted on 02/11/2009 7:31:32 AM PST by nanetteclaret (Blessed Martyrs of Compiegne, Pray for Us!)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
This was written a couple days after the meltdown. NY Post writes about the dramatic money market drawdown. The money markets are what spurred Paulson to act; many didn't understand why he moved so fast. This article explains it.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09212008/business/almost_armageddon_130110.htm

104 posted on 02/11/2009 7:39:43 AM PST by what's up
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
I am convinced -- and there's one more sound bite to go here -- I am convinced that this is what they took to the White House and said to President Bush

Rush is exactly right.

105 posted on 02/11/2009 7:41:33 AM PST by what's up
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To: bert

This is an interesting thread. More to come I’m sure...


106 posted on 02/11/2009 9:12:44 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Bipartisainship is now about a 3 to 532 vote on Capital Hill.)
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To: nyconse
,,,,,it’s pretty clear what happened....

The $500 Billion run on money markets occurred within 1 hour. The time frame was 11:30 AM to 12:30 PM, on Thursday, September 18, 2008. When it became clear that an injection of $120 billion could not halt the hemorrhage, trading was suspended and the damage was irreparably done.

Your economically sophisticated and logical reasoning is quite sound. However, the event has many illogical, but equally sophisticated aspects that are inexplicable at the moment, including the precise timing and the identities of the prime movers in the event. So, it is not yet "pretty clear what happened," except if you are speaking of a damage report.

However, given George Soros's long and criminal history of currency manipulations conducted against governments other than our own, certainly an investigator would be amply justified in making him "a person of interest" in the case. Were I George Soros, I would be extremely grateful that those who investigate him will probably be Americans, not French, Indonesian, or especially the Russians.

..... No matter what, it would have happened eventually....

A reasonable assumption on your part, but an assumption none the less. It is an equally reasonable assumption that a coordinated blow was delivered against the financial system of our country on 9/18/08.

107 posted on 02/11/2009 10:28:11 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Ayers for SCOTUS. It's a done deal.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

We can investigate, but I don’t think Soros orchestrated this for political gain. For days, from about September 11th on, the street was waiting for the announcement of a bailout for Lehman...it didn’t come. When Lehman fell, the ripple effects began. I see panic on the part of investors and some manipulation by Buffet and others to try to calm the waters, it just didn’t work.


108 posted on 02/11/2009 10:44:16 AM PST by nyconse
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing; All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ-IPb8AOZE&feature=related


109 posted on 02/11/2009 10:51:00 AM PST by djf
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To: nyconse
I We can investigate, ....... II I don’t think Soros orchestrated .......III this for political gain.

(I) OK

(II & III) I sense your mind is somewhat open, why not wait and see what happens in I?

Of course, in American law, Soros' sins in foreign jurisdictions remain off limits, except as a subliminal reminder those deeds of which this former concentration camp kapo is capable.

Objection: Sustained: Strike that. The jury is to disregard KB's prejudicial remarks.

110 posted on 02/11/2009 12:09:52 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (Ayers for SCOTUS. It's a done deal.)
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To: Jim Robinson

As a follow-through I believe this is an ideal issue for Republicans and Kanjorski and other Democrats who can be communicated with to be asked about.

If the mailers and callers who communicated about the pork issue were to request as a highest priority of an inquiry into this incident it would be difficult for many to oppose such an inquiry, which would have two aspects:

1) Were any existing laws violated, and

2) What can be done to make sure it can never happen again?


111 posted on 02/11/2009 12:38:09 PM PST by AmericanVictory
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To: nyconse

“Same thing”

Nah.


112 posted on 02/11/2009 1:17:54 PM PST by ripley
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To: Kenny Bunk

bookmark


113 posted on 02/11/2009 10:24:47 PM PST by southland ( 1 John 4:4 , Zec 12:9, PS 121)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

bookmark


114 posted on 02/11/2009 10:25:56 PM PST by southland ( 1 John 4:4 , Zec 12:9, PS 121)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

bookmark


115 posted on 02/11/2009 10:26:00 PM PST by southland ( 1 John 4:4 , Zec 12:9, PS 121)
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To: All

Ping


116 posted on 02/11/2009 10:26:03 PM PST by stockpixx
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To: Arrowhead1952; Fiddlstix; PhilDragoo; Liz; onyx; potlatch; devolve; MEG33; Grampa Dave; Lady Jag; ..

Yep!

Ping-worthy, imho !!

Ping! Ping! Ping!


117 posted on 02/12/2009 6:32:04 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Obama, WHO is Bill Ayers and WHY are you still friends with him? Please RSVP asap!)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
So, you know, I have been suspicious of all this that happened last fall. It just seemed too perfectly timed.

Timed for the election?

Timed for the election?

If this is true - if President Bush was played for a fool - and the economy was taken to the brink of disaster for political gain - heads will roll.

Where's the FBI? Pull the FBI off Madoff and on to the real financial crime of the century.

118 posted on 02/12/2009 6:43:53 AM PST by GOPJ (What's caused 19 deaths, makes travel difficult, and won't melt til April? Global Warming.FR:Dentist)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Thanks for the ping!


119 posted on 02/12/2009 6:54:05 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: arthurus
I would have to agree with you on the Soros connection.

My gut tells me there are a number of political, wealthy leaders around the world that want to bring the USA to it's knees.

IMHO, Soros won this election to an empty suit that Will follow his directions. Soros got everything he wanted.

A liberal, black/white American with a domineering wife who will follow directions as instructed.

One more tin hat theory..Soros and Pelosi are using O as their puppet.

JMHO

120 posted on 02/12/2009 7:20:02 AM PST by not2worry (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND)
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To: djf
Recommendation: Turn your stacks into $20’s.

$100 bills are subject to much scrutiny.

Most people will accept a $20 bill, but a $50 or $100 will get the Governmental highlighter swipe.

Plus one soldier FReeper informed me that a $20USD is accepted worldwide.....just in case you decide to flee to a Country where democracy reigns.

121 posted on 02/12/2009 7:25:07 AM PST by not2worry (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND)
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To: MeekOneGOP; Halfmanhalfamazing

122 posted on 02/12/2009 7:43:51 AM PST by Lady Jag (Believe in your heart that you're destined to do great things)
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To: Kenny Bunk

My mind is open to evidence of a Soros hit on the market...I don’t see it right now, but I am always open to new evidence. I wold like to see it investigated then devolve into a yet another conspiracy theory...


123 posted on 02/12/2009 7:58:39 AM PST by nyconse
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To: NVDave

Explain the part of Kanjorski’s comment that it happened over the period of a couple of hours?


124 posted on 02/12/2009 8:04:24 AM PST by Amityschild
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To: nanetteclaret
*IMO it was an intentional act*** George Soros

Even SNL had a skit that implicated Soros....It was pulled in two days from public view.

125 posted on 02/12/2009 8:39:01 AM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: Amityschild

OK, no problem.

While there are some of us who are somewhat more experienced in the market and are paying attention to a trading terminal throughout the day, most people aren’t. So this wasn’t a run created by the retail investor.

Hedge fund managers, however, are paying attention all day, every day. Asset managers (ie, running managed accounts for high net worth people) are in the trading terminal all day. Managers at investment banks, brokerages, etc - all paying attention to the same news feeds - they all have Bloomberg terminals on their desks. If they’re watching CNBC, it is with the sound down, mostly for the view of the tight, low-cut sweaters, not any news content. The Bloomberg terminal is their real news and analysis feed, and this is what almost all professionals use. If you get to see a Bloomberg terminal, check it out. It is a very, very powerful tool and when you see what is available, you’ll see how the professionals are much better informed than the retail investors.

My point is, most professional money shops are all using the same source of news.

The Bloomberg terminals had been coughing up a steady stream of headlines stemming from the Lehman collapse since the night of Sunday, Sep. 14th. When people came into work on Monday morning, I’m sure they were already looking like deer in the headlights. It had finally happened - one of the Big Five investment banks - over 150 years old - went down in flames in the space of a couple weeks. Probably only 10 days prior, the thought have been so inconceivable, that most people who didn’t know the debt portfolio of Lehman would have laughed it off.

eg, look at people like Jim Cramer telling his viewers that they’d be crazy to pull their money out of Bear Sterns... only days before it went under.

When Lehman tipped over, and word went out that the funds broke the buck the next day, fund managers all over the country started looking at what money market funds they were using. Hedge funds especially, because European and UK hedge funds had been burned BADLY earlier in the year by a money market fund in Europe taking severe losses from having client money in illiquid debt investments which tanked.

As soon as word went out that Reserve broke a buck, the pro’s acted independently, but all with the same thought at the same time: “Holy *(&^*&^ - we can’t trust ANYTHING. SELL. NOW.” They had been primed for this by Lehman tipping over - and Lehman was counterparty to a whole lot of bond transactions. AIG was teetering - and they were insuring a whole lot more paper.

These “professionals” all think alike. I say “professional” in quotes because one of the marks of distinction that “financial professionals” like to claim is that they’re the “smart money.” This, it turns out, is far from the truth. They offer very little unique between each other. Many of them went to the same schools, have the same degrees, studied out of the same textbooks. They largely think alike - which is what got us here in the first place, after all — too many of them chased yield, believed that borrowers with low FICO scores could somehow pay down their mortgage in a way that resulted in a “AAA” rating by virtue of being deadbeats from all over the country combined into one CDO. That sort of thinking.

It was a whole lot of “financial professionals” who got us into this jam. It wasn’t the retail investor. It was people who like to call themselves “financial engineers” and the like. Never mind that real engineers wouldn’t have allowed this much risk to build up in the system. They like to call themselves “financial engineers” because it sounds cool — like they’re designing something slick — sorta like a banana peel on a linoleum floor, I guess.

So when you get a bunch of people like this, who think alike... and they see the same event (one of the oldest money market funds in the US breaking a buck), from the same data/news source, they all do the same thing at once: sell, sell, by God sell NOW.

No co-ordination, no conspiracy, no need for Freemasons, Jews or Illuminati need to be involved, and while I’m sure there are more than a couple Masons or Jews working on Wall Street, they weren’t doing all this selling after meeting at the lodge/temple for three-whisky or three-martini lunch, hatching a plan and then going back to their desks to bring down the world around us.

This was just blind, herd-mentality panic.


126 posted on 02/12/2009 8:41:48 AM PST by NVDave
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To: driftdiver

I can not see the “panicked people” of this country coming together in an 1 1/2 to 2 hours to pull this off. It doesn’t make the least bit of sense. We all need to demand that our government tell us the truth.


127 posted on 02/12/2009 8:43:36 AM PST by RC2
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To: GOPJ
IMO Soros might have had help...Who says Madoff or others weren't accomplices.
128 posted on 02/12/2009 8:44:34 AM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: hoosiermama

It was pulled because the two people (a couple named Herb and Marion Sandler) who had sold a sub-prime origination bank in California (Golden West Financial, purchased by Wachovia in one of the most stunningly stupid deals of the sub-prime melt-down) threatened to sue NBC for libel, not because of Soros. The Sandlers are not “public” people, so NBC’s parody of their sale of the bank, and the subsequent melt-down of Wachovia being presented as being the fault of the Sandlers was libelous.


129 posted on 02/12/2009 8:47:35 AM PST by NVDave
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To: RC2

Sit in front of a trading terminal some day.

You can see dozens to hundreds of actors on Wall Street act in concert with no more co-ordination than the price and volume movements they see on the screen in front of them.


130 posted on 02/12/2009 8:48:37 AM PST by NVDave
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing; MeekOneGOP; BOBTHENAILER; SierraWasp; Liz

My wife and I were part of that near collapse.

I got word about the money fund in trouble on 9/17, the first warning may have come from this site.

I immediately put a sell on a large amount of our Fido regular money funds and their federal reserve money fund in our IRAs.

On 9/18, the money was dumped into the short term, medium term and a few long term CDs that we could buy via Fido.

On 9/18, I cashed out enough cash from our remaining money markets to handle the bills and extras into this month and had it deposited into our checking acct, in case the system crashed. As soon as that cash arrived, it was transferred to a internet bank with a high interest CD on the internet. That will be closed out this week as their rates are dropping and some other flags showed up.

The evening of 9/18, I convinced my wife to roll about 98% of her current 401k into her Fido Ira to buy Cds, Gld and other hopefully more secure paper. That process took until Mid November. All of her 401k was in the money markets due to the stock hits in July 2007. In May/June of 2007, because of the Pelosi/Reid bs, I had tried to convince her to get out of her 401k’s mutual funds. She didn’t want to do it as the funds I had picked for her had a good run. We went on a cruise the first part of that July, and she lost about 10-12% per fund in less than two weeks. So we moved all of her 401k into their money fund.

This August, we bought a fair chunk of GLD in case total disaster happened. She has added more since then. Through her job, she knows a successful investment couple for themselves and the formerly rich winos. They got totally into GLD and hard gold from Aug through November and have the rest in CDs in various banks.

We both own the following etf’s with sell orders changed at least once a week to protect any major losses: SHY, TlO, LTH.

When the inflation cycle starts to kick up, after this kamakazi bailout, I may sell TLO/TLH and buy TIP and ETF’s that short the DOW or S&P 500.


131 posted on 02/12/2009 8:49:35 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foriegn/domestic terrorists, or tax evaders?)
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To: NVDave
126 would only cause this amount of damage if the people involved had a lot of money to manipulate...not the mom and pop investors that most on FR are.

But it certainly does make sense.

132 posted on 02/12/2009 8:54:20 AM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: not2worry

Good advice the $20’s.

We will start storing and hiding a few $20 bills each week.

They are easy to get from the ATM. So we will just add a few extra 20’s each time we use our ATM for cash, about 4 times per month.


133 posted on 02/12/2009 9:01:31 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foriegn/domestic terrorists, or tax evaders?)
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To: Kenny Bunk; Richard Poe

Maybe it was both. A coordinated blow and actions by a lot of investors like me with a few bucks in our IRA money funds.

Below is a little summary of my actions that day and the next day. I’m that I was not by myself. Also, I’m not on George $oreA$$’s special email list.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2183027/posts?page=131#131


134 posted on 02/12/2009 9:06:03 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foriegn/domestic terrorists, or tax evaders?)
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To: NVDave

But the conspiracy!! Such fun!!! Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful response.


135 posted on 02/12/2009 9:08:20 AM PST by Amityschild
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To: Grampa Dave; NVDave

Remember reading about short selling originating in Pakistan, India or Indonesia shortly after all this happened....Is there information out there regarding this or was it just talk.


136 posted on 02/12/2009 9:11:38 AM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

SOROS and friends


137 posted on 02/12/2009 9:38:05 AM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: driftdiver
"IMO it was an intentional act, not a bunch of panicked people."

Bingo. Election year.
138 posted on 02/12/2009 9:38:22 AM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (1st call: Abbas. 1st interview: Al Arabiya. 1st energy decision: halt drilling in UT. Arabs 1st!)
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To: RC2

I can not see the “panicked people” of this country coming together in an 1 1/2 to 2 hours to pull this off
_____________________________________________

Of course not, why is the government hiding it. We have a right to know.


139 posted on 02/12/2009 9:42:34 AM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: NVDave

I understand that. I still can’t see $550 Billion going that fast in such a short amount of time. Maybe it can happen but why has it never happened before?


140 posted on 02/12/2009 9:45:24 AM PST by RC2
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To: JDoutrider

marker


141 posted on 02/12/2009 9:51:05 AM PST by JDoutrider
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

There are two other pieces of info to this, so do you remember CHARLES SCHUMMER’S LETTER on INDYMAC bank in CA, that started a run on Indymac and Bernake (Fed Reserve) had to step in and take over the bank? Lehman Brothers CEO Feld was in trouble and got an offer to purchase the week before they went down, and he refused it...also Warren Buffet (I heard on FoxNews radio) offered Feld (Lehman) same deal for preferred stock he offered to Goldman-Sachs, and Feld refused allowing Lehman to fail. Think about the $440,000 donation to Obama right before Feld closes Lehman Bros down....and other donations to dems and DNC.

This was a conspiracy and I’ll wear the tin hat, since the facts show this to be true. Some investigation would show that much of the greed was done to bankrupt our system to make way for a new communist one. Remember these stock brokers went to same colleges with the same marxist professsors as Obama. The CAPM strategy of how to split and sell those bad assets got a Noble Prize, but it was one of reasons the banks had toxic assets. There is a thread somewhere on that info as well. Put all the info together and you will see a pattern of behavior to rape the free market capitalist system, while crashing it, to make way for marxism/communism. No scruples in this bunch of dems.

Why would Hamas terrorists want to come here, because they aren’t interested in freedom or capitalism? Why would Obama want them to come here? America had better start putting two and two together before it is too late. Who really won this election? Or did ACORN deliver the votes? We don’t know do we?


142 posted on 02/12/2009 10:11:45 AM PST by Kackikat (.It's NOT over until it's over and it's NOT over yet....The Trumpet will sound....)
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To: djf
I read somewhere that only something like 2 percent of the “money” out there is actual dollar bills.

Almost all of it is stocks, money market accounts, pension funds, blah blah blah basically fake money.

Fake money? When your paycheck hits your account via direct deposit, is that money less real than if you handed the bank a paycheck or a stack of bills?

Your written checks manage to pay your light bill, regardless of how the money entered your account.

So no matter what, there’s not enough money to cover the “money”.

How much of your net worth is held in FRNs? Less than 100%? Why?

And if everyone was to run to the bank to take out all their C-Notes, the bank would be closed in like 15 minutes.

Quick, buy gold!

143 posted on 02/12/2009 10:29:44 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Protectionists, still bad at math.....)
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To: Red in Blue PA
700 million is chump change; I believe you meant 700 Billion

He was talking about the $700 million of short-term commercial paper mentioned in post #12.

144 posted on 02/12/2009 10:32:03 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Protectionists, still bad at math.....)
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To: RC2

Because you’re seeing AAA-rated debt all over the bond market default. You’re seeing a systemic break down in debt markets, mostly due to “engineered” debt securities being illiquid crap, coupled with feckless incompetence or pay-to-play corruption at the three bond ratings agencies.

Most people think that the stock market is the big market in the world. The NYSE likes to make the retail investor believe that they’re the center of the financial universe.

Not so.

The bond markets in the US and London are the centers of the financial universe. If we want to describe the markets as a dog, the bond markets are the body of the dog. The stock market is the tail. And the commodities/futures markets are sorta like a twitchy nose on the dog.

The tail and the nose go where the body goes. The nose might influence where the body wants to go, but if the body doesn’t want to follow, all the nose can do is sniff the wind.

The tail just tells you whether the body and nose are happy, frightened, not amused or ready to take a dump. The tail cannot make the body do anything, all it can do is follow.

Since the Depression, there has never ever been a debt deflation like we’re seeing now. The financial world has this “recent data bias” of using almost exclusively post-WWII data for their estimations of whether markets are cheap/expensive or in a panic or wildly priced up. The whole of the US financial world seems to want to completely ignore the Depression as a base of statistical information, because they’ve all talked themselves into believing that “it can’t happen again.”

Well... it has. The Depression was a case of debt deflation, and what we have now is a case of debt deflation. When you hear these analysts on CNBC or Bloomberg (or Fox Biz) talk about “de-leveraging” — that’s financial lingo for “debt deflation.”

As a result of debt deflation, the financial world is seeing stuff that they’ve not seen before. Most of the people in finance are younger - say, 50 and below. They don’t know jack about the Depression - most of them learned about it in history class in high school, it isn’t discussed nearly enough in financial degree classes, if the gibber-jabber I see spewed on the financial channels by “professionals” is any indication of what is taught about the Depression in MBA or finance majors.

One of the things the financial world is seeing is the deadly combination of illiquid debt securities (like CDO’s) and leverage. When you’re levered up and your portfolio loses value, your margin lender can (and will) call you, the fund manager, and say “Hi there... margin call. We need $XXX before time HH:MM or we’re going to start selling what we need to in order to lower your leverage.” All summer long, hedge funds and others were getting calls like this - you could see this start to happen as the stock and commodities markets were selling off in increasing waves. The reason why we saw this was that stocks and commodities are liquid - when the markets are open, you can get a price and sell the stuff right now - in seconds, if not minutes for large block orders.

Try selling some of these thinly traded debt securities in a couple minutes — fat chance. You’ll take huge losses. This is the problem with thinly-traded securities. Imagine if someone came up to you and said “I need more money down on your mortgage by 5pm today — or we’re going to sell your house.” It is exactly the same type of thing - you can’t sell your house in one afternoon without taking a HUGE haircut in valuation. So you sell what you can that is more liquid for more reasonable prices - like your 401K, or your car, etc.

So this set the trap for the market: Along comes the fall of Lehman. These funds, banks, investment banks - they’re all bleeding out of their eye sockets due to these stupid illiquid debt securities, they’ve had to sell off their stock and commodity positions at increasing losses... and now comes word that money market funds are not safe. We’ve had money market funds “break the buck” before in the US — the last time was about 14 years ago, if I recall. It was a little ripple back then, because the markets were healthy; money was pulled out of that particular fund, the market went on.

But leading up to 9/15 to 9/16 — the market behavior was getting increasingly “out there in the thin tails” — ie, the statistical models (going back to the confirmation bias and deliberate decision to ignore and not use data from the 1930’s) of these wizards of wall street were all saying “We have no prediction for what happens next....” because the events we were and are seeing are not in post WWII model data sets - but some old fart (really old fart) who had been in the markets in the 1930’s would have told us exactly what to expect. That’s why I keep referencing Irving Fisher’s paper on debt deflations - Fisher studied the panics of 1929/1933, 1873, 1837, 1807, etc. They have a common pattern to them, and we’re seeing that pattern now.

Suddenly it is worth paying attention to the really old fogies with no hair or white hair. They’re the only people alive with some basis in experience for what we’re seeing.

Due to the recentcy bias in their models, suddenly there was no black box telling the young turks that this was a buy signal. It is like those older role-playing game maps with a big, dark area on the map that gives no detail; it says only “Here be dragons.”

Right now, there are banks withdrawing guidance on their bad loan losses — because their models don’t account for unemployment higher than 9%.

So they had to fall back on human judgment - and in this case, the judgment became panic.


145 posted on 02/12/2009 10:51:08 AM PST by NVDave
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To: RC one; djf
"I’m far too reliant on electronic debit cards myself. I might need to think about that.

Me too. It was right here in FR where politicket said he was bailing to cash just before the large part of the meltdown. I evaluated the situation and bailed too. It saved me about $80K in my IRA.

146 posted on 02/12/2009 10:51:08 AM PST by uncommonsense
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To: driftdiver; All
Adjusts tinfoil hat....

I said way back, way back in Oct. & Nov. this was an intentional act. Rush is close, but not quite on this yet...

Look to who was invested heavily in the companies and/banks that went under. Rush needs to go back 9 months, 12 months and look who was invested in the failed or failing institutions.

The run-up in oil prices was not an accident, was not all that speculation, and was not the faux demand. It was done to protect the assets and the people of those oil countries from the economic collapse of the world.

I said it before and I'll say it again...we took a terrorist hit on our economy.

147 posted on 02/12/2009 11:25:11 AM PST by EBH ( Directive 10-289)
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To: djf

Where do you live?
Where exactly do you store these stacks?


148 posted on 02/12/2009 11:33:21 AM PST by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter(the Godfather of Terror) allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: meyer
Maybe I need to netflix the movie "Rollover". Haven't seen it for a while.

Funny notes on the movie:
About this title: Alan J. Pakula directs the political thriller Rollover, produced by leading lady Jane Fonda's production company, IPC Films. Featuring a racist plot and negative stereotypes about the Arab world, this film reflected the American fear of the Middle East prevalent in the early '80s.

149 posted on 02/12/2009 11:36:36 AM PST by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: w1andsodidwe

Not tellin ya.
Besides, they’re not “hundred dollar bills”.

They’re hundred “dollar bills”.

Just separate out and save your singles when you get home.

By the end of the year, you’ll have a good stack of Christmas cash.


150 posted on 02/12/2009 11:41:24 AM PST by djf
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