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What Is Science?
AiG ^ | Roger Patterson

Posted on 02/19/2009 9:24:24 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

What Is Science?

"Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic."

—Dr. Scott Todd, Kansas State University, Nature 401(6752):423, Sept. 30, 1999

What You Will Learn

Many people do not realize that science was actually developed in Christian Europe by men who assumed that God created an orderly universe. If the universe is a product of random chance or a group of gods that interfere in the universe, there is really no reason to expect order in nature. Many of the founders of the principle scientific fields, such as Bacon, Galileo, Kepler, and Newton, were believers in a recently created earth. The idea that science cannot accept a creationist perspective is a denial of scientific history...

(Excerpt) Read more at answersingenesis.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; intelligentdesign; science
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To: js1138
"The biggest flaw in ID is that it doesn't suggest looking for them."

I probably should read at least one other post in this thread before I weigh in. However, I am not famous for my abundance of discretion.

The biggest thing that the TOE has going for it these days is the evidence found in mitochondrial DNA!

So we all share DNA and we all have common ancestors. I never had to read an Evolution Book to learn that.

The absence of physical evidence sustaining the notion that one critter grew into another is actually revealing. Academic square-heads still tend to run around the world proselytizing dumb hicks (like me) that something came from nothing and that any thought contrary to that must indicate a need for more education.

Darwin's 5 year voyage around the world on the Beaver sure seems to have involved a lot of wasted time. How much of that 5 years was actually spent watching some finches on the Galapagos? Think about it!

It is all BS, but gosh, I can't say BS out loud here on FR.com.

That is not enough for the proponents of a logically flawed "Science" that is in all but acknowledgment a secular religion. That is a religion that has no God.

I wish that it weren't bedtime already.

151 posted on 02/19/2009 7:44:47 PM PST by Radix (22;22 EST, 13 Feb 2009, C-Span2, Silent wait for Sen to come bury USA after burying his Mom)
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To: metmom

The best way to deal with an arrogant scientist is to prove him wrong. Where’s that YEC proof?


152 posted on 02/19/2009 7:45:19 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: metmom
Where do you get that God was torturing Adam ...

Quoting Adam:

"This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;"

My bolding.

153 posted on 02/19/2009 7:46:50 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: Buck W.
This is uncalled for:

“If you don’t have an answer say so statement about an earlier post is not an answer.”

Particularly so since I had not spoken to him at all.

154 posted on 02/19/2009 7:48:03 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Radix
I wish that it weren't bedtime already.

Who sets your bedtime?

155 posted on 02/19/2009 7:51:54 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: Buck W.

“Christianity is not defined by Genesis.”

I’ll give you that I guess. The majority of Christians just don’t believe in parts of the bible that have been exposed as false.

Its certainly more rational the literalism, but they can never explain why they believe the rest of it.

Though I do find it funny that most people who consider themselves bible literalists think catholics are crazy for taking the last supper story literally about the body and blood.

Christianity is funny from the outside looking in.


156 posted on 02/19/2009 7:53:21 PM PST by Rhino371
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To: Radix
Darwin's 5 year voyage around the world on the Beaver sure seems to have involved a lot of wasted time.

Not near as much time as Adam wasted trying out all the animals for suitability as companions before God figured out he needed a woman.

157 posted on 02/19/2009 7:53:46 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: ColdWater

Its not your question so you have no right to demand an answer from me and then decide which answers I’ve given to SOMEONE ELSE are acceptable.

You want to ask a question, do so, but do not tell me how to answer another person’s question.

It called “manners”.


158 posted on 02/19/2009 7:55:07 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Buck W.; metmom
Jesus talked about the creation of Adam and Eve.

Are you saying that he lied about that when He did it?

Buck I would like to hear a real answer to this question. Also what is your definition of a Christian

159 posted on 02/19/2009 7:57:06 PM PST by TinCan
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To: Radix
The Beaver? LOL. I hope you were joking.
160 posted on 02/19/2009 7:57:45 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: whattajoke

Say what? Answers to your questions are readily available to you online. You have much to learn regarding the process of getting a real paper published in a real journal.

Thanks for once again displaying you're unable to adequately explain your untenable positions, aptly named whattajoke.

161 posted on 02/19/2009 8:11:19 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: TinCan

Why do creationists confuse (or deliberately misrepresent) “lie” and “allegory”? Did Jesus lie when he used parables?


162 posted on 02/19/2009 8:14:45 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: allmendream
The Beaver? LOL. I hope you were joking.

Five years on the beaver might explain Darwin's lifelong frail health. He was just wore out.

163 posted on 02/19/2009 8:14:48 PM PST by js1138
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To: count-your-change
Its not your question so you have no right to demand an answer from me and then decide which answers I’ve given to SOMEONE ELSE are acceptable. You want to ask a question, do so, but do not tell me how to answer another person’s question. It called “manners”.

I wanted the answer from you to that question. I said if you don't want to answer then say so and I would not be beckoning you for a response.

164 posted on 02/19/2009 8:15:45 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: Buck W.

Can you answer the questions?


165 posted on 02/19/2009 8:16:48 PM PST by TinCan
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To: metmom
What do you mean, *trying out all the animial to see if they could suit him*? Trying them out how?

The Bible doesn't say how but obviously Adam found a something lacking in the animals.

I will make him a helper fit for [5] him.” 19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed [6] every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam [7] there was not found a helper fit for him.

166 posted on 02/19/2009 8:17:24 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: metmom
They aren't just satisfied with opting their kids out of the creation section of origins in schools, they have to sue the schools into submission to have evolution only taught.

Citation please.

167 posted on 02/19/2009 8:19:37 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: metmom
Any paper dealing with creation or ID will never be accepted for peer review because of the very mentality you are displaying. Anything that doesn't tow the hardline evo position is by default dismissed as not *real* science and not even given any consideration.

This is another example of evos demanding the impossible by setting up conditions that they know no one can meet and then deriding those who can't meet them for their failure.

Talk about intellectually dishonest.

Yup...and isn't it funny these scientists that aren't "real" attend or teach or graduated from MIT, Johns Hopkins, Princeton? One really wonders if whattajoke thinks these are "real" institutions of higher learning.

Frankly, I wouldn't call it intellectual dishonesty so much as honestly devoid of intellect.

168 posted on 02/19/2009 8:22:36 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: ColdWater

No doubt referring to Dover.


169 posted on 02/19/2009 8:22:46 PM PST by js1138
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To: TinCan; Buck W.

Questions to Buck W. that have as of yet been unanswered....

Post 94: Sources? Or are we just to take your word for it as fact?

Post 95: All? Sources? Or are we to just take your word for it as fact?
Sources? Or are we to just take your word for it as fact?
You’re pretty liberal with the blanket statements. Want to back them up sometime? Or just stereotype everyone?

Post 109: Which church?
All people? Everywhere?
You know that to be a fact?

No sources provided as of yet for any of the statements made.

I know what happens to creationists who don’t provide sources and it isn’t pretty. But evos are know for double standards. They don’t seem to think that the requirements they demand of others, they need to meet themselves.


170 posted on 02/19/2009 8:24:41 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Buck W.
Yes, at the time Christians believed that the earth was at the center of creation. They based that belief on the literal reading of the Bible. Today, scientific evidence reveals conclusively that the earth holds no such place of honor.

Really, and when did that happen? How is it that scientists determined the center of that which has no borders? Conclusively.

171 posted on 02/19/2009 8:29:03 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: ColdWater

Your bolding alright.

I just checked out about a dozen English translations of that verse and cannot figure out where you came up with that one.


172 posted on 02/19/2009 8:30:46 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ColdWater

That’s not all the animals on the planet.


173 posted on 02/19/2009 8:31:38 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ColdWater

I asked,

“The question on literalness is another one by its self. So why should I have not responded with Biblical references?”.

And your question is?


174 posted on 02/19/2009 8:34:00 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

” They aren’t just satisfied with opting their kids out of the creation section of origins in schools, they have to sue the schools into submission to have evolution only taught. “

Public schools can’t teach your religion it is illegal. And you don’t want them to since then school would have to present both sides, and trust me you don’t want them proving the bible is full of lies in school. Take your kid to church if you want them to learn your mythology.


175 posted on 02/19/2009 8:35:04 PM PST by Rhino371
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To: metmom
Any paper dealing with creation or ID will never be accepted for peer review because of the very mentality you are displaying.

Anything that doesn't tow the hardline evo position is by default dismissed as not *real* science and not even given any consideration.

This is another example of evos demanding the impossible by setting up conditions that they know no one can meet and then deriding those who can't meet them for their failure.

Talk about intellectually dishonest.

Yup...and isn't it funny these scientists that aren't "real" attend or teach or graduated from MIT, Johns Hopkins, Princeton? One really wonders if whattajoke thinks these are "real" institutions of higher learning.

Frankly, I wouldn't call it intellectual dishonesty so much as honestly devoid of intellect.

176 posted on 02/19/2009 8:42:13 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: metmom; TinCan; tpanther

Are you REALLY looking for sources that geocentrism was a belief enforced by the church 500+ years ago? REALLY? Denial of science is bad enough, but denial of relatively recent history is delicious desperation.

Now, for your homework, look up Galileo and his forced confession in 1615 (or thereabouts) in which he saved his own life by concurring with scripture-derived geocentrism.


177 posted on 02/19/2009 8:43:22 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: ColdWater; YHAOS; Fichori; tpanther; valkyry1; Mr. Silverback; Ethan Clive Osgoode; betty boop; ...

All the lawsuits filed to force creation out of the schools.

We can ask a question here and any evo who wants can answer it.

“Would you support the opt out option for students in the public schools in regards to teaching creation instead of an outright ban on teaching creation in science classes? One that would allow creation to be taught along with evolution but not requiring that children attend?”


178 posted on 02/19/2009 8:43:31 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Rhino371
It's not illegal to teach religion in school. As to proving the Bible is full of lies, most of the people I've debated on this subject only have a couple of bumper sticker quotes that claim the Bible is incorrect, and most have little knowledge of the actual history of Scripture or even the meaning of the passages they claim are incorrect.

I'd also suggest that as someone who's been here less than a month, it would be a good idea not to start bomb-throwing too early.

179 posted on 02/19/2009 8:44:02 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: tpanther
How is it that scientists determined the center of that which has no borders? Conclusively.

That is not what he said. He said the earth is not at the center. That has been determined.

180 posted on 02/19/2009 8:44:32 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: metmom
All the lawsuits filed to force creation out of the schools.

I haven't seen one yet. Please inform me a one. Thanks.

181 posted on 02/19/2009 8:45:18 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: tpanther

“How is it that scientists determined the center of that which has no borders? Conclusively. “

Let me understand this—are you arguing in support of geocentrism? I’m giving you an opportunity to respond with a simple “no”.


182 posted on 02/19/2009 8:45:29 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: tpanther; Buck W.

Curious, Buck. Where is the center of the universe then?

How far are the edges from us in the different directions?

If we’re not in the center, then we must be closer to one edge than the other. How far away is the closest edge and how far away is the furthest edge?


183 posted on 02/19/2009 8:46:12 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

You do know that geocentrism and heliocentrism refer to the entity that we call the “solar system” and not the universe as a whole, right?


184 posted on 02/19/2009 8:48:40 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Rhino371

The public school system for centuries started each day with Bible reading and prayer and taught creation. It was not considered the establishment of religion, nor the teaching of it, nor was it considered illegal.

I don’t want my kids taught your atheistic, nature worshiping mythology either. You want to teach your kids that there’s no God and that they’re just a bunch of animals, teach them on your own.

What lies is the Bible full of and how can you demonstrate that they are lies?


185 posted on 02/19/2009 8:49:42 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Rhino371
Public schools can’t teach your religion it is illegal.

Quick! Tell the Modesto school district. They REQUIRE every 9th grader to pass a course on religion.

186 posted on 02/19/2009 8:50:57 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: metmom

evos dont answer questions. They only create strawmen, distort, project and attempt to re-define the playing field


187 posted on 02/19/2009 8:52:09 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: metmom

Read and get educated ...

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part9/section-5.html


188 posted on 02/19/2009 8:54:17 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: TinCan
Buck I would like to hear a real answer to this question. Also what is your definition of a Christian.

Buck's been asked this before. Buck has absolutely no idea what he's talking about on pretty much any subject.

189 posted on 02/19/2009 8:54:55 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: whattajoke
I suspect he'd be rather amazed at how genetics and DNA evidences have confirmed his thinking so long ago.

He'd be more amazed I think that because certain animals share similar DNA, people are gullible enough to believe this can only mean they share a common ancestor based on sheer conjecture and nothing more.

I'm unclear as to why you place "theory" in quoatation marks.

It's crystal clear to people that aren't caught up in the God-hating cult that's clearly hijacked the theory now taught as fact by secualar humanist liberals.

Regardless, I can think of no other theory that is constantly attacked by shameful Christians (and Muslims, for that matter) who are so insecure in their faith they think a branch of science will somehow disprove their beliefs... Even though it does no such thing.

No other "theory" has been hijacked by cultists projecting their insecurities in this way you just displayed. As if that's not shameful enough, you take money from Christians to pay for your failed godless debacles after running them off. THAT would be the very definition of shameful. Along with cowardly and weak. So called science theory as taught only by the threat of lawsuits."Real" science in the liberal world, where up is down and down is up.

190 posted on 02/19/2009 8:55:28 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: metmom
“Would you support the opt out option for students in the public schools in regards to teaching creation instead of an outright ban on teaching creation in science classes? One that would allow creation to be taught along with evolution but not requiring that children attend?”

I support having religious classes as religious classes, not teaching religion in science classes.

191 posted on 02/19/2009 8:56:34 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: demshateGod

As for creationists’ lack of tolerance. HA!! We just want equal time for our money. You force us to pay for teaching we find ridiculous so we try to get an alternative taught, since we’re paying for the classrooms. We even offer to have it taught at our expense. We get pushed out of the classrooms by government orders and told our position isn’t science while the evidence that our position is indeed science isn’t allowed to be heard. Then when we defend our position we’re told we’re intolerant.

A-freaking-mazing!!


Not to mention, Christians pay for their failed godless liberal debacles long after we’ve left!


192 posted on 02/19/2009 8:57:14 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: Buck W.

Dude, can you answer my questions?


193 posted on 02/19/2009 8:58:35 PM PST by TinCan
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To: tpanther
As if that's not shameful enough, you take money from Christians to pay for your failed godless debacles after running them off.

Interesting. My tax money goes to pay for religious classes in public schools and NOT once have I ever called for removing them from the school system. Probably 100's times more money than goes for teaching evolution in the public school system. I think you should rethink your position.

194 posted on 02/19/2009 8:59:00 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: allmendream

Science is the single most productive means humanity has ever come across for gaining useful information about the physical universe.
Science is based upon the systematic gathering of data on measurable and replicable natural phenomena, and attempts to explain and predict these data by appeal to measurable and replicable natural causes in the formation of a scientific hypothesis.

If the evidence supports the hypothesis, and your hypothesis is found to be USEFUL in predicting and explaining natural phenomena, then it may one day be regarded as a theory.

A theory is the highest rank of scientific explanation, making the construction “just a theory” the domain of tools and fools.


Nice, and I guess everyone is to ignore multiverse theory, string theory, the fact that scientists study the effects of prayer...

what a hoot!


195 posted on 02/19/2009 8:59:30 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: metmom
That’s not all the animals on the planet.

Which one did he miss?

196 posted on 02/19/2009 8:59:44 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: metmom
A good question but I think you know what the Dictum from
The Temple of Darwinism is.

Darwinism in the schools is like I remember grits in the cafes in Georgia. You could take it or leave it but you ain't gonna get a plate of food without it. And no subs on the menu either!

197 posted on 02/19/2009 8:59:49 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: tpanther

“Buck has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about on pretty much any subject.”

Thank you! I’m in your head! I may use that as my tagline if I decide to change from FT.


198 posted on 02/19/2009 9:00:11 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: tpanther
the fact that scientists study the effects of prayer...

And what are the findings of those studies?

199 posted on 02/19/2009 9:00:33 PM PST by ColdWater
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To: count-your-change

LOL....ever notice the liberals have these apt handles they use, making them stick out like sore thumbs?


200 posted on 02/19/2009 9:00:58 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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