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Evolution debate persists because it's not science
The Sun News ^ | February 23, 2009 | By Raymond H. Kocot

Posted on 02/22/2009 10:58:04 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Ah, you are back. You said "*everything* in science is false", with emphasis on "everything". According to you then, evolution is false, among other things.
Yawn... I see you still don't understand the difference between nuoma and phenomena.
451 posted on 02/24/2009 3:22:36 AM PST by ketsu (It’s not a campaign. It’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: Fichori
Well, I have yet felt the need to call you snoogums, so, not hardly at all.

As a Creationist, I have never had any credibility with Evofascists to begin with.

My joke about Nature received the exact response I was hoping for.

I'm certainly having fun.

Far be it from me to deny you the simple(emphasis on simple) pleasures in life.
452 posted on 02/24/2009 3:25:42 AM PST by ketsu (It’s not a campaign. It’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl; TheWasteLand; cookcounty; ketsu; editor-surveyor; GodGunsGuts
"...But his (dead and immobile) bone keeps slipping and sliding away. His maladroit incompetence is really hilarious..."

Survival for dogs must involve catching it in his teeth first. Once it's captured, securing it with his paws is less of a survival problem. A bone provides little in the way of nourishment or utility: That a bone might slip away isn't a great loss.

Humans don’t grasp things? BTW, a scotch pot cleaning pad has friction strips, too. Some designer someplace...in some soap lab...noticed an obvious idea.

And...

"...the last I checked humans grip a far greater variety of objects (large and small, coarse and smooth) than do apes..."

The same "friction ridges" that appear on your fingers and palms also appear on your feet.

What were we humans supposed to be grasping with our feet?

453 posted on 02/24/2009 3:59:32 AM PST by Does so (White House uncomfortable? Sleeplessness? The 0bama will quit before 6 months are up.)
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To: ketsu; Fichori

Some day Fichori will get indoor plumbing.


454 posted on 02/24/2009 5:27:37 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: ketsu; Fichori

I thought with all the penis posts they were making that one of them would explain to me why God designed the one organ both for insertion and reproduction and also for the elimination of waste.


455 posted on 02/24/2009 5:36:23 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: whattajoke
Thanks doc, for doing the dirty work this time.

Thanks. Its tiresome work but someone has to do it.

;-)

456 posted on 02/24/2009 5:37:55 AM PST by DoctorMichael (Creationists on the internet: The Ignorant, amplifying the Stupid.)
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To: ColdWater
I thought with all the penis posts they were making that one of them would explain to me why God designed the one organ both for insertion and reproduction and also for the elimination of waste.

The Adam in original state apparently contained the complete 'curve' as something was separated from him to form woman. Imagine that one if you can, as in original state 'man' was created in the image of God.

457 posted on 02/24/2009 5:43:23 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: ketsu

why do you refer to yourself as “somebody”?

If you’re feelign small, there are meds for you


458 posted on 02/24/2009 5:47:00 AM PST by woollyone (I believe God created me- you believe you're related to monkeys. Of course I laughed at you!)
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To: ColdWater
>>>No. Harley riders have made me hate them because of their loud pipes and detuning to make them backfire as they come off their throttles.<<<

but why be a hater?
Mine doesn't backfire.
Runs great!
Changing the subject because you have no real answer for how stupid it is for a human being to claim to be related to primates as distant relatives? lol

>>>Ocala is NOT south Florida.<<<

Ok. Thank you for that.
Good geography lesson.
But I don't live in Ocala.
I live in SOUTH Florida.

>>>Rest assured that my mode of transportation will blow away your Harley on both acceleration and top speed.<<<

You can blow all you want, for all I care.
You brought up my Harley as unrelated information in the thread...why...?
You went to my “about” page to try and dig up something scandalous and my Harley was the best you could do?
So you then post a “compensator” comment that you think yours is bigger and faster?
What exactly IS your point?

I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
You brought up the topic of my Harley, not me.
Which makes folks wonder why you'd feel so insecure that you need to try and...compare.
You have issues.
Your last statement shows your inner need to validate what...your size?...stature?..social value?...worldly importance?...what?

All because I laugh at people who openly are willing to embarrass themselves by claiming to have originated from, and related to, lower life forms?

Well, its YOUR theory!
It's YOUR belief!
You own it by your OWN choice!
If it is so darn embarrassing for you, maybe that ought to give you folks some kinda clue!
hello!

...still laughing.
...moving along

459 posted on 02/24/2009 6:06:46 AM PST by woollyone (I believe God created me- you believe you're related to monkeys. Of course I laughed at you!)
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To: ketsu; Sir Francis Dashwood

Coming from someone who runs around calling everyone *snoogums*, that’s ironic.....


460 posted on 02/24/2009 6:12:53 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: woollyone
You can blow all you want, for all I care. You brought up my Harley as unrelated information in the thread...why...? You went to my “about” page to try and dig up something scandalous and my Harley was the best you could do? So you then post a “compensator” comment that you think yours is bigger and faster? What exactly IS your point?

Uh you mentioned something about progressive and ride. I made a short comment about that any one that rode a Harley was not about progress! A one-liner. Then you went on one multi-paragraph rant after another. I was responding to your rants. If you had not gone on so many rants, I would have never posted more than my one-liner. In fact, you asked me some direct questions. If you don't like my answers, don't ask me questions.

BTW, mine will blow you away in the curves also!

In the last six months, we have had three Harley riders at our place of work go down and to the hospital; two while on the company access road. They just can't handle the twisty curves. That is three out of about 15 riders! In town, I don't know how many but there were at least two deaths. All the above were related to driver error and NONE involved another vehicle.

461 posted on 02/24/2009 6:13:02 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: woollyone
You went to my “about” page to try and dig up something scandalous and my Harley was the best you could do?

I could have done much worse if I had wanted to. But I didn't desire to. I take it you are a little thin-skinned when it comes to out-dated Harley technology. Why are Harley riders all about show but so thin skinned?

462 posted on 02/24/2009 6:15:59 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: woollyone
Your last statement shows your inner need to validate what...your size?...stature?..social value?...worldly importance?...what?

Uh, riding a Harley is all about compensation.

463 posted on 02/24/2009 6:16:45 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: Fichori

“Uuuuum... do you even know what the journal Nature is?”

>Yeah, its the second rate backup paper source that sits under the the JC Penny and Sears & Roebuck catalogs in the outhouse.

And the outhouse is also a backup for when outdated plumbing backs up?

I don’t think there’s anything anti-biblical about good quality indoor plumbing.


464 posted on 02/24/2009 6:17:18 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: woollyone
But I don't live in Ocala. I live in SOUTH Florida.

OK. My sources had you spotted frequently in Ocala.

465 posted on 02/24/2009 6:19:04 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: woollyone
but why be a hater? Mine doesn't backfire. Runs great!

I am not a "hater". I actually go out of my way to compliment a Harley rider that keeps his factory exhausts or at least keeps some type of muffler on his bike. It is those that run the noisy pipes and cut you off at 70 mph on the interstate that bug me. I never can understand why a Harley biker will white-line it between two cars and move into a space of about one car length and then get annoyed that the car is intruding on his 'space'!

466 posted on 02/24/2009 6:22:24 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: woollyone

Harley engines don’t “run great”; if you’re lucky they run at all. That long stroke 45 degree V engine was a bad design for an engine in 1920 or whenever it came out and they’ve never really fixed it.


467 posted on 02/24/2009 6:24:41 AM PST by varmintman
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To: GodGunsGuts
But did you ever wonder why Darwinism's general theory of evolution, sometimes called macroevolution, has been debated for over 150 years without resolution?

Because people generally don't find their religious beliefs threatened by the Laws of Thermodynamics. Meanwhile, anything that points to a world older than 6,000 years gets argued about endlessly by people who refuse to accept any evidence or chain of reasoning that contradicts the Bible.

468 posted on 02/24/2009 6:25:37 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: varmintman
That long stroke 45 degree V engine was a bad design for an engine in 1920 or whenever it came out and they’ve never really fixed it.

But with a single lobe crank and no distributer it made for painful riding and weird vibrations and exhaust. Which has made Harley more famous? The exhaust note or the oil leaks?

469 posted on 02/24/2009 6:28:25 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: varmintman
That long stroke 45 degree V engine was a bad design for an engine in 1920 or whenever it came out and they’ve never really fixed it.

I think the V-Rod is a 60 degree V.

470 posted on 02/24/2009 6:29:09 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: PapaBear3625
Because people generally don't find their religious beliefs threatened by the Laws of Thermodynamics. Meanwhile, anything that points to a world older than 6,000 years gets argued about endlessly by people who refuse to accept any evidence or chain of reasoning that contradicts the Bible.

The Bible does NOT contradict a very very very OLD earth. Just as with evolution it is flesh that interrupts what the evidence actually means or what the Bible literally says.

IF evolutionists literally accepted what the Bible literally says they would be quoting the Bible to demonstrated credibility regarding a very very very OLD earth.

What the Bible literally says makes the claim of evolution either down through the eons of time or a quick time process null and void and without form or simply put 'confusion'.

471 posted on 02/24/2009 6:32:49 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: GodGunsGuts

not science

...just saying
again


472 posted on 02/24/2009 6:35:45 AM PST by woollyone (I believe God created me- you believe you're related to monkeys. Of course I laughed at you!)
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To: PapaBear3625
Meanwhile, anything that points to a world older than 6,000 years gets argued about endlessly by people who refuse to accept any evidence or chain of reasoning that contradicts the Bible.

Not argued, refuted. Refuted to ensure the record is set straight. Usually it is easily refuted because those justifications of a 6000 year old earth contain easily identified falsehoods or distortions.

473 posted on 02/24/2009 6:36:06 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: Does so; Alamo-Girl; TheWasteLand; cookcounty; ketsu; editor-surveyor; GodGunsGuts

Traction.

It’s why they put spikes on track shoes,

and interestingly, very similar little split lines on new all-weather tires (for which I paid about $550 at Firestone :>)


474 posted on 02/24/2009 6:39:21 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: woollyone
Next time I ride my Harley in the nice South Florida sun...at one point, I’ll think back to your comment and grin as the wind blows through my blonde hair and my GF’s pretty hair,

Y'all ride without a helmet? This confirms your level of intelligence. But you should really care more about your GF than that.

475 posted on 02/24/2009 6:39:46 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: ColdWater

Here is some info from a biker site. If this were true, then racers would not wear helmets! But lets not allow facts get in the way of our agenda. You wouldn’t do that, would you?

6. It is shown that past a critical impact velocity to the helmet (approximately 13 mph), helmet use has a statistically significant effect which increases the severity of neck injuries. Thus we reject the claim that, helmets have no effect on neck injuries in favor of the claim that, past a critical impact speed, they exacerbate neck injuries.


476 posted on 02/24/2009 6:44:59 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: woollyone
..still laughing

nih.gov

On July 1 2000, the State of Florida exempted adult motorcyclist and moped riders from wearing helmets provided they have medical insurance of $10 000. Monthly time series of motorcycle occupant deaths are examined from 1/1994 to 12/2001. The interrupted time series analysis estimates a 48.6% increase in motorcycle occupant deaths the year after the law change.

477 posted on 02/24/2009 6:52:41 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: ketsu

Are you referring to Sir Faggot Dickweed?


478 posted on 02/24/2009 7:06:18 AM PST by js1138
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To: From many - one.; Fichori
I don’t think there’s anything anti-biblical about good quality indoor plumbing.

Actually, Fichori is being quite biblical with his outhouse:

Deuteronomy 23:12-14 (King James Version)

12Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:

13And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

14For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

Now I wonder if he eats shrimp at cocktail parties, wears wool sweaters, and/or stones the neighborhood kids when they talk back to their parents.
479 posted on 02/24/2009 7:06:49 AM PST by whattajoke (.)
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To: woollyone
not science ...just saying again

Keep repeating it. It still won't change science.

480 posted on 02/24/2009 7:12:59 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: ketsu; Old Landmarks
The Hardcore Free Republic Evolutionists are mostly social liberals who pretend to be something else, never admitting what they really are, blind liberals who think social conservatives are the enemy of the state.

Finally, and insult here I find insulting. Points for that. I'm not sure when being rational, educated, and armed with simple scientific facts meant I was not a conservative. I do know when FR made that rather disappointing "decision" though, and it sucks.
481 posted on 02/24/2009 7:14:25 AM PST by whattajoke (.)
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To: Old Landmarks
They side with the far left and take issue with our pledge of "One nation under God".

Please. I have never seen that position taken by any here at FR. You are losing it.

482 posted on 02/24/2009 7:16:42 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: xzins; Does so; editor-surveyor; GodGunsGuts; hosepipe; betty boop; TXnMA; DallasMike
I find this sidebar on the relevance of ridge detail on the hands and feet of apes and man to be quite amusing.

After all, if one were to break a man and an ape down to their constituent parts he would soon observe that both consist of the same quantum particles and fields that make up rocks and galaxies. And yet that would tell the investigator little about either man or ape, because along the way of breaking them down - both would move from being alive to being dead. And of course neither rock nor galaxy is alive.

Or to put it another way, along the way of breaking the man and ape down, something was removed which was not physical at all.

So whether one looks at quantum field theory and gasps that all physical things whether alive or dead have it in common – or whether one looks at physical structures and gasps that all physical things whether alive or dead have geometry in common – or whether one looks at living man and ape and gasps that they both have ridge detail on their feet and hands – the truly amazing part is that life is not physical at all. The rest is just coincidence among things which evoke a physical description.

As Einstein once said "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous."

Truth is hidden in plain view but without "ears to hear" and "eyes to see" man cannot perceive it.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - I Corinthians 1:18-25

It's not "about" the physical realm.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

483 posted on 02/24/2009 8:52:29 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
[ It's not "about" the physical realm. \ It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63 ]

Exactly...

484 posted on 02/24/2009 9:25:31 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: editor-surveyor
Thanks for your kind note.

I do not believe in replacement theology. I believe that all the promises made to the Jews will be given to the Jews. Jesus made it very clear in the Olivet discourse that at the end of the age (aeion) the temple would be destroyed, the Jews scattered, and Jerusalem trampled by the Gentiles for a while. However, in the Day of the Lord, God will intervene, save them from destruction, and they will recognize him. I have read and listened to R.C. Sproul for at least 15 years and have never heard anything remotely approaching anti-Semitism come from his mouth.

I won't go into eschatological discussions here. Reasonable persons can and do disagree. The main point is that, one day, Jesus will come again and believers alive in those days will join him in the air. I so look forward to that day!

Look around at what you see. I always thought that the U.S. would never be a part of any tyrannical antichrist regeime, but Obama hates Christ almost as much as he hates freedom.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. We are entering a period where the sheep will be separated from the goats. I fear that our country will turn against Israel. At that point, God will completely remove his protective hand from us. Those who refuse to go against Israel may suffer intense persecution. We know our shepherd's voice and will follow him unto death if it is God's will.

If we don't meet on earth, I look forward to joining you in heaven. We'll have much to discuss. We can both certainly agree that we will hold fast to the faith and endure the race until the end. We will place any crowns that we receive at the feet of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

485 posted on 02/24/2009 9:29:30 AM PST by DallasMike
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To: hosepipe
Thank you for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!
486 posted on 02/24/2009 9:31:53 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; xzins; Does so; editor-surveyor; GodGunsGuts; hosepipe; metmom; TXnMA; DallasMike
...the truly amazing part is that life is not physical at all. The rest is just coincidence among things which evoke a physical description.... As Einstein once said "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous."

Anatole France had something similar to say WRT "chance": "Chance is the pseudonym of God when he didn't want to sign."

Truly it is amazing that "life is not physical at all." It is a participation in Being that has a physical basis in this world, but it is not reducible to the chemistry or mechanics of that physical basis; i.e., it is not reducible to the physical laws. It is something "more." Being itself is not "physical" — for God, the I Am That Am (Being itself, in itself and as creative cause) is neither "physical" nor bound by any spatiotemporal constraint.

Or so it seems to me. Again referring back to the statements of the astronomer George V. Coyne, S.J., from a recent thread, creation is not a one-time start-up event "in the beginning," but a continuous process. It's interesting to note that it was Plato's view also that living entities exist by virtue of their participation in Being. Being is the first and final cause, the unchanging, everlasting, eternal "ground" of their existence, the constant cause of their livingness, from which they arise into physically-incarnated life, and into which they return at death.

Not for nothing do Christians call the I Am That Am "Our Father": There is no Life without Him.

Just some thoughts, FWIW. Thank you so very much for your insightful essay/post, dearest sister in Christ!

487 posted on 02/24/2009 10:28:34 AM PST by betty boop
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To: hosepipe; Alamo-Girl
[ It's not "about" the physical realm. \ It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63 ]

Exactly...

Exactly!

488 posted on 02/24/2009 10:32:37 AM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop; hosepipe; xzins
Truly it is amazing that "life is not physical at all." It is a participation in Being that has a physical basis in this world, but it is not reducible to the chemistry or mechanics of that physical basis; i.e., it is not reducible to the physical laws. It is something "more." Being itself is not "physical" — for God, the I Am That Am (Being itself, in itself and as creative cause) is neither "physical" nor bound by any spatiotemporal constraint.

Indeed. Very well said, dearest sister in Christ!

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and those of Anatole France, George V. Coyne, S.J. and Plato!

Not for nothing do Christians call the I Am That Am "Our Father": There is no Life without Him.

Amen.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; - John 5:25-26

To God be the glory!

489 posted on 02/24/2009 11:15:22 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: js1138; woollyone; tpanther; metmom; editor-surveyor; Old Landmarks; Westbrook; ...
“Are you referring to Sir Faggot Dickweed?”
Uh, js, I know calling FReepers foul names is perfectly acceptable over at DC where you are a moderator, but this isn't DC.

Don't you ban anyone from DC who signs up and starts calling DC'ers foul names?

490 posted on 02/24/2009 11:59:07 AM PST by Fichori (If YOU Evolved, YOUR Unalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are VOID)
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To: betty boop

LoL..


491 posted on 02/24/2009 11:59:47 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Fichori
Don't you ban anyone from DC who signs up and starts calling DC'ers foul names?

Not so far. Wouldn't be many left to turn off the lights.

But I suppose calling biologists nazis and marxists isn't foul.

492 posted on 02/24/2009 12:06:59 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Don't you ban anyone from DC who signs up and starts calling DC'ers foul names?
“Not so far. Wouldn't be many left to turn off the lights.” [excerpt]
So if I sign up on DC and start calling you and all your DC buds all manner of foul names there, I won't get banned for it?

That sounds like an open invite!
493 posted on 02/24/2009 12:12:36 PM PST by Fichori (If YOU Evolved, YOUR Unalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are VOID)
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To: Fichori

Give it a shot, if you can handle wading through the mire.


494 posted on 02/24/2009 12:40:36 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Fichori; js1138
F: Don't you ban anyone from DC who signs up and starts calling DC'ers foul names?

js: Not so far. Wouldn't be many left to turn off the lights.

No, they just ban anyone who wants to tell them about God or tried to inject any thing about intelligence into the discussion.

But the foul they welcome and admit to being.

As we all knew.....

495 posted on 02/24/2009 12:46:55 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
It's not "about" the physical realm.

Science and scientists will never be able to touch the essence of what makes a man a man and sets him apart from animals within the parameters of that men have currently set for science.

The spirit of a man is in no way testable or observable nor can be reduced to a lab experiment.

No evo on FR has as of yet answered the question of what life is and what is the inherent difference between a body, living one minute and dead the next.

For all the smug intellectual superiority that many on the evo side of the debate display towards those who haven't been brainwashed educated into believing that the ToE can explain how life arose on this planet, they cannot ever begin to explain what life really is in the first place.

496 posted on 02/24/2009 12:57:23 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
“No, they just ban anyone who wants to tell them about God or tried to inject any thing about intelligence into the discussion.” [excerpt]
From what I've been able to tell, anyone who directs foulness directly towards a DC'ers person, is immediately banned and all their posts are purged.

They are immensely thin skinned over there.

Did you know that AGW was on their 'no bash list'? (You'll catch major flames if you bash AGW)

However, since there are no Creationists there, bashing Creationists (and FReepers) is just fine.
497 posted on 02/24/2009 12:57:28 PM PST by Fichori (If YOU Evolved, YOUR Unalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are VOID)
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To: Fichori

I’ll bet MANDATORY vaccines are as well. I’ve seen the evos take the hard left pro-government mandate vaccine position here on FR, and call anyone who objects to the mandate part as anti-science, a pejorative they just love to throw around.


498 posted on 02/24/2009 1:32:24 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Coming from someone who runs around calling everyone *snoogums*, that’s ironic.....
Talking to (mental) children makes you gay? I never knew.
499 posted on 02/24/2009 10:06:43 PM PST by ketsu (It’s not a campaign. It’s a taxpayer-funded farewell tour.)
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To: metmom
Science and scientists will never be able to touch the essence of what makes a man a man and sets him apart from animals within the parameters of that men have currently set for science.

Truly said. Under "methodological naturalism" the subject is off the table. And ironically, because it is, extremist animal rights activists are much more successful in making scientific research involving animals troublesome.

500 posted on 02/24/2009 10:28:44 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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