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Why Darwin was wrong about the tree of life (Creationists have been saying this for decades!)
New Scientist ^ | January 21, 2009 | Graham Lawton

Posted on 02/24/2009 6:37:38 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

...

The tree-of-life concept was absolutely central to Darwin's thinking, equal in importance to natural selection...Without it the theory of evolution would never have happened. The tree also helped carry the day for evolution.

...

For much of the past 150 years, biology has largely concerned itself with filling in the details of the tree. "For a long time the holy grail was to build a tree of life," says Eric Bapteste, an evolutionary biologist at the Pierre and Marie Curie University in Paris, France. A few years ago it looked as though the grail was within reach. But today the project lies in tatters, torn to pieces by an onslaught of negative evidence. Many biologists now argue that the tree concept is obsolete and needs to be discarded. "We have no evidence at all that the tree of life is a reality," says Bapteste. That bombshell has even persuaded some that our fundamental view of biology needs to change...

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: atheisticmorons; christianmythology; christianmyths; creation; creeation; evolution; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; mythology; myths; religiousmyths; superstition; treeoflife
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To: conservativebabe

Let’s let them speak for themselves, shall we?:

Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”

Lewontin, Richard C. [Professor of Zoology and Biology, Harvard University], “Billions and Billions of Demons”, Review of “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark,” by Carl Sagan, New York Review, January 9, 1997.


“I had motive for not wanting the world to have a meaning; consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics, he is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do, or why his friends should not seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to themselves. … For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political.”

Aldous Huxley: Ends and Means, pp. 270 ff.


Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented.”

Provine William B., [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], “Darwin Day” website, University of Tennessee Knoxville, 1998.


“Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.”

Provine, William B. [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], “, “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life”, Abstract of Will Provine’s 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address.


“It is no more heretical to say the Universe displays purpose, as Hoyle has done, than to say that it is pointless, as Steven Weinberg has done. Both statements are metaphysical and outside science. Yet it seems that scientists are permitted by their own colleagues to say metaphysical things about lack of purpose and not the reverse. This suggests to me that science, in allowing this metaphysical notion, sees itself as religion and presumably as an atheistic religion (if you can have such a thing).”

Shallis, Michael [Astrophysicist, Oxford University], “In the eye of a storm”, New Scientist, January 19, 1984, pp.42-43.


“Man is the result of a purposeless and materialistic process that did not have him in mind. He was not planned. He is a state of matter, a form of life, a sort of animal, and a species of the Order Primates, akin nearly or remotely to all of life and indeed to all that is material.”

Simpson, George Gaylord [late Professor of Vertebrate Paleontology, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, USA], “The Meaning of Evolution: A Study of the History of Life and of its Significance for Man,” [1949], Yale University Press: New Haven CT, 1960, reprint, p.344.


101 posted on 02/24/2009 9:14:33 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

yep, it’s as I thought.

It is the absence of accountability


102 posted on 02/24/2009 9:18:59 AM PST by conservativebabe (awaiting inspiration for a new tagline)
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To: org.whodat
There was/is a study of the subject on discovery a little while back, showed that a chicken had a tail.

OK, but what I asked for was a link to a source comparing bird DNA with frog DNA and dinosaur DNA.

103 posted on 02/24/2009 9:25:12 AM PST by js1138
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To: dangus
yes, the DNA of birds, measured in at least some ways, is more similar to frogs than to Dinosaurs.

I would appreciate a link to your source for this information. I'm still waiting.

104 posted on 02/24/2009 9:26:52 AM PST by js1138
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To: conservativebabe
The problem is, they are not just advocating this for themselves, they are trying to legislate their libertine, purposeless, and ultimately, totalitarian way of death on the rest of us too. That is why Christians need to wake up to the fact the the Temple of Darwinistic Materialism is a religion (not science) that has every intention of taking over the reigns of power in this country, if we let them.
105 posted on 02/24/2009 9:32:31 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Indeed as a conceptual tool the use of a tree was very smart. But that is the point, it a concept in the eye of the beholder, the relationships are in the eye of the classifier, not in reality.

You can argue, demonstrate, prove that the Emperor has no clothes and that there is no Emperor either and his footmen will still take the credit saying they convinced the crowds of that fact.

106 posted on 02/24/2009 9:35:02 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: js1138

see post #63


107 posted on 02/24/2009 9:36:48 AM PST by dangus
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To: GodGunsGuts
You have no idea what you’re talking about. MALCOM MUGGERIDGE began as a socialist, converted to Christianity, and then became a staunch conservative and anti-communist.

Lucky he lived so long. Sixty-five years is a LONG time to be wrong.

108 posted on 02/24/2009 9:51:10 AM PST by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts
The problem is, they are not just advocating this for themselves, they are trying to legislate their libertine, purposeless, and ultimately, totalitarian way of death on the rest of us too. That is why Christians need to wake up to the fact the the Temple of Darwinistic Materialism is a religion (not science) that has every intention of taking over the reigns of power in this country, if we let them.


"There coming to take me away! HaHa! They're coming to take me away! HoHo! HeHe! HaHa! To the funny farm...."
109 posted on 02/24/2009 9:53:42 AM PST by Wacka
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To: dangus
Well, I was referring to percent matches of DNA among Crocodillia, Anura, Aves, and a Dinosaur DNA sample found in the 1980s.

Do you have a link to the finding of dinosaur DNA?

110 posted on 02/24/2009 10:00:27 AM PST by js1138
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To: dangus
In any event, if you read my original posting, my clear intent was to prompt further research into using genetics to establish phylogenies, not to champion young-earth creationism.

That's certainly among the hottest fields of research at the moment. It's clearing up a number of disputed lineages.

111 posted on 02/24/2009 10:04:53 AM PST by js1138
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To: dangus

OK, I’ve had time to look into your claims about dinosaur DNA.

In 1994 a guy named Woodward claimed to have found a few tiny snippets of dinosaur DNA. At the time, the human genome had not been sequenced, so it was not immediately possible to demonstrate the snippets were contamination. But they almost certainly were. You don’t find many references to the Woodward find after 1996.

The same thing is happening to the more recent claim of finding dinosaur collagen (protein). As more work is done, it appears to be microbial contamination.

Construction of Jurassic Park in on hold..


112 posted on 02/24/2009 10:38:55 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138; dangus; org.whodat
from 111 dangus: "Well, I was referring to percent matches of DNA among Crocodillia, Anura, Aves, and a Dinosaur DNA sample found in the 1980s.

js1138: "Do you have a link to the finding of dinosaur DNA? "

This is too laughable for words. Dinosaur DNA! ;-)

Yes, of course, DINOSAUR DNA! It was in a book, don't you see? About mosquitoes trapped in amber, remember? They even made a real scary movie from it, then sequels -- about a park, from the Jurassic era... now I remember, those frog-like velociraptors... ;-)

js1138, I hate to say this pal, but you are way too subtle for these guys! ;-)

113 posted on 02/24/2009 10:47:11 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

It was probably amino acid sequencing, come to think of it...


114 posted on 02/24/2009 10:50:04 AM PST by dangus
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To: BroJoeK

Just trying to move the debate forward without being rude.

There are bits and pieces of reality scattered throughout the discussion of dino DNA and frogs. But since the advent of DNA sequencing machines, anything said about DNA and lineages before 2000 is likely to be out of date.


115 posted on 02/24/2009 10:54:35 AM PST by js1138
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To: buck61

You said — “There is another tree of life, Revelation.”

The same tree of life, just with more of a description of it... The tree of life was preserved and protected by the angel sent by God to guard the way to it.


116 posted on 02/24/2009 11:56:30 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: GodGunsGuts

I think it’s likely that Darwin drew his tree of life as an analogy to family trees, which have been around for a long time. Family trees are gross oversimplifications, of course. For example, one of my ex-wife’s father’s brothers married one of her mother’s cousins. That required drawing a few extra lines in the family tree (making it—horrors!—look something more like a web), but it didn’t mean she was no longer related to the great-grandfather back in Russia.


117 posted on 02/24/2009 12:16:05 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: js1138
” microbial contamination.”? Maybe it wasn't contamination, maybe the dinosaurs were really huge microbes. Big squishy, soft microsaurs, Microsquishy? No,...Microsoft! That's it!
118 posted on 02/24/2009 12:34:48 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: allmendream
1977

You're worse off now than you were then. Shoulda quit while you behind 'cause now you're behinder.

The science of evolution is not dependent upon fossils

Ya, I know. Nor the geologic column, nor carbon 14, nor the 2nd law of thermodynamics, nor mathematics, nor genetics, nor honest evidence of any kind, nor integrity.

119 posted on 02/24/2009 12:49:03 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

Second law of thermodynamics? Wow. That is so dumb even other Creationists warn against using that argument.

Do you think that the Sun doesn’t provide energy to the Earth?


120 posted on 02/24/2009 12:54:35 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: Cedric

And you still trying to ignore how the “DR” got put in front of a lawyers name? Did you copy and paste it from a disreputable source, or did you add it yourself?


121 posted on 02/24/2009 12:55:22 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

Java man


122 posted on 02/24/2009 12:55:33 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

What was the name of the “scientist” who bribed Chinese peasants to unearth fraudulent discoveries for him?


123 posted on 02/24/2009 1:06:00 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

So did you add the “Dr” yourself, or did you copy and paste it from a disreputable source?


124 posted on 02/24/2009 1:23:30 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: Cedric

So did you add the “Dr” yourself, or did you copy and paste it from a disreputable source?

Care to reveal your source?

........... I didn’t think so. It might cast a harsh light on your dishonesty.

Who again is the “Lord of Lies”?

Who do you think you are serving by such dishonesty?


125 posted on 02/24/2009 1:25:11 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

“Darwin sucks!”

Dr. Ota Benga


126 posted on 02/24/2009 2:02:26 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

Did you add the “Dr” onto that one as well?

Care to reveal your source. I am interested in knowing if you copy and pasted the Dr. or added it yourself.

Well?


127 posted on 02/24/2009 2:06:21 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream
trying to “pull a fast one?

Homo Habilis

128 posted on 02/24/2009 2:08:48 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream
trying to “pull a fast one?

Dr. Homo Habilis

129 posted on 02/24/2009 2:11:07 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

In natural processes, a system will always lose order or stay the same.

Dr. Cedric


130 posted on 02/24/2009 2:14:14 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

So you think promulgating false information is funny?

Care to share your source?

Were they stupid and dishonest or were you?

I am beginning to get the feeling that it was you.


131 posted on 02/24/2009 2:14:37 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

There are several aspects of quantum physics which easily lends it to misinterpretation. The first is Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle, which very specifically relates to the proportional relationship of quantities - such as position measurement and momentum measurement - within a quantum system. Another is the fact that quantum physics field equations yield a range of “probabilities” of what the outcome is. Together, the two have led some postmodern thinkers to believe that reality itself is completely random.
In fact, though, the probabilities go away when you combine them and expand the mathematics into our own macroscopic world. While the tiny world may be random, the sum of all that randomness is an orderly universe.


132 posted on 02/24/2009 2:16:20 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

Prov 16:33 The dice are cast into the lap, but every result is from the Lord.

So who do you think you are serving by dissemination of false information?

Who again is the “lord of lies”?


133 posted on 02/24/2009 2:18:27 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream
you think promulgating false information is funny?

Evos have provided side-splitting hilarity for a century and a half.

134 posted on 02/24/2009 2:18:45 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric
So you think that whatever “Evos” do in your imagination, then you are free to do it as well?

Because evolution is a “lie” to you, that means that you can lie with impunity?

Is that your “logic”?

Most people learn that the “they do it too!” excuse loses its appeal around first grade.

135 posted on 02/24/2009 2:21:19 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.


136 posted on 02/24/2009 2:24:04 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

David lied to Ahimelech.


137 posted on 02/24/2009 2:26:58 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

Jehu lied to the worshipers of Baal in order to gain the advantage over them and destroy them.


138 posted on 02/24/2009 2:28:15 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

So you admit you lied, and now claim it was justified?


139 posted on 02/24/2009 2:40:41 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream
Who again is the "lord of flies"?

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/

140 posted on 02/24/2009 2:45:14 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

Matthew 10:16
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.


141 posted on 02/24/2009 2:52:30 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

And you thought adding “Dr” in front of a lawyers name was being “Shrewd as snakes”?

Not likely.

Your interpretation of that scripture has you acting as “shrewd as a dove” and “as innocent as a snake”.

Moreover Matthew 10:16 is no excuse for lying.


142 posted on 02/24/2009 2:54:59 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

Psalm 74:18
Remember how the enemy has mocked you, O Lord, how foolish people have reviled your name.


143 posted on 02/24/2009 3:01:28 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

So now you think YOU are the Lord?

I am mocking YOU and your dishonesty.

You mock the Lord by taking his name for yourself and then being as “shrewd as a dove and as honest as a serpent”.


144 posted on 02/24/2009 3:08:25 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

Numbers 25:5 (b)
...put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor.


145 posted on 02/24/2009 3:11:08 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

How about

“do not bear false witness”

Forgot that one in your zeal to pass off a lawyer as a doctor?


146 posted on 02/24/2009 3:13:24 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

“You shall have no other gods before Me.”


147 posted on 02/24/2009 3:16:37 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

Dr. Luke 4:8
Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.


148 posted on 02/24/2009 3:31:01 PM PST by Cedric
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To: allmendream

Dr. Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.


149 posted on 02/24/2009 3:59:36 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Cedric

Are you that guy I see on the corner in downtown SF, screaming bible verses?


150 posted on 02/24/2009 4:08:32 PM PST by Wacka
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