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Do These Mysterious Stones Mark The Site Of The Garden Of Eden?
Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | February 27, 2009

Posted on 02/27/2009 9:47:03 PM PST by Steelfish

Do these mysterious stones mark the site of the Garden of Eden? By TOM COX

For the old Kurdish shepherd, it was just another burning hot day in the rolling plains of eastern Turkey. Following his flock over the arid hillsides, he passed the single mulberry tree, which the locals regarded as 'sacred'.

The bells on his sheep tinkled in the stillness. Then he spotted something. Crouching down, he brushed away the dust, and exposed a strange, large, oblong stone.

The man looked left and right: there were similar stone rectangles, peeping from the sands. Calling his dog to heel, the shepherd resolved to inform someone of his finds when he got back to the village. Maybe the stones were important.

They certainly were important. The solitary Kurdish man, on that summer's day in 1994, had made the greatest archaeological discovery in 50 years.

Others would say he'd made the greatest archaeological discovery ever: a site that has revolutionised the way we look at human history, the origin of religion - and perhaps even the truth behind the Garden of Eden.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: adamandeve; anatolia; archaeology; catalhoyuk; catalhuyuk; creationism; discovery; eden; gardenofeden; gobeklitepe; godsgravesglyphs; oldearthspeculation; origins; prehistory; religionofatheism; sanliurfa; turkey
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1 posted on 02/27/2009 9:47:03 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish

The 6k nuts will be by to scream blasphemy.


2 posted on 02/27/2009 9:50:16 PM PST by arealconservativeforachange (Tell JD Hayworth to run for McCain's seat! http://www.jdhayworth.com/contact.php)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping!


3 posted on 02/27/2009 9:50:22 PM PST by JennysCool (Internet Powerhouse)
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To: arealconservativeforachange

In before the 6k nuts start. Good call.


4 posted on 02/27/2009 10:01:15 PM PST by freeplancer (McCain Voters Catch the Lobsters-Obama Voters Eat Them)
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To: Steelfish

WOW. This is mind-blowing stuff, and entirely plausible. Amazing carvings, ay — particularly for something 13,000 years old!

This is straight out of the days of Conan the Barbarian, in the Hyperborean Age.


5 posted on 02/27/2009 10:02:51 PM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: arealconservativeforachange
The 6k nuts will be by to scream blasphemy.

And why should that bother you?

6 posted on 02/27/2009 10:04:06 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Yes, Gorbachev is better than Obama. At least Gorbachev admitted he was a Communist)
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To: Steelfish
There were herds of game, rivers of fish, and flocks of wildfowl; lush green meadows were ringed by woods and wild orchards. About 10,000 years ago, the Kurdish desert was a 'paradisiacal place', as Schmidt puts it. So what destroyed the environment? The answer is Man.

I'd say it's just as likely that the retreating glaciers changed the climate here to that of Saudi Arabia.

7 posted on 02/27/2009 10:05:59 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Yes, Gorbachev is better than Obama. At least Gorbachev admitted he was a Communist)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Read his posting history he is something of a bait troll.


8 posted on 02/27/2009 10:07:52 PM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center 1971?)
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To: ansel12
Read his posting history he is something of a bait troll.

I gathered that. He surely added nothing of value to this thread.

9 posted on 02/27/2009 10:10:53 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Yes, Gorbachev is better than Obama. At least Gorbachev admitted he was a Communist)
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To: Steelfish

This is a fascinating article, if someone has links I would like to read more about this.

That part about the massive covering up of the site seemed unusual that is a lot of labor.


10 posted on 02/27/2009 10:11:27 PM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center 1971?)
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To: Steelfish
humanity's innocent and leisured hunter-gatherer past, when we could pluck fruit from the trees, scoop fish from the rivers and spend the rest of our days in pleasure

Ho-ha, someone has a sense of humor at least. Why we should all just up and become hunter-gatherers; since it's such a paradisiacal mode of living. And I just love the little bit of rhetorical projection at the end; paradise was lost because of ...

... wait for it ...

... human caused climate change! Who could have guessed?

11 posted on 02/27/2009 10:12:34 PM PST by eclecticEel (Wall Street isn't a charity ... so why are we giving them money?)
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To: arealconservativeforachange

And just who are the 6k nuts?


12 posted on 02/27/2009 10:12:44 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: Steelfish
Fascinating article. I've always believed we short-change our ancestors in terms of their knowledge. I think their societies were far more sophisticated than we believe.
13 posted on 02/27/2009 10:15:06 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Steelfish
Awesome and eerie. Click on the photo at the link below for some extraordinary pics.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html#

14 posted on 02/27/2009 10:16:56 PM PST by this_ol_patriot (I saw manbearpig and all I got was this lousy tagline.)
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To: arealconservativeforachange

There are 6 thousand nuts who don’t think Mulberry trees are sacred?
What is this place coming to.


15 posted on 02/27/2009 10:17:51 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: this_ol_patriot

Thanks- the Smithsonian URL is great!


16 posted on 02/27/2009 10:21:11 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: freekitty
"And just who are the 6k nuts?"

The Ussherite YECs -- like the one who typically spams the FR news forum at least once daily with garbage editorials from YEC websites...

17 posted on 02/27/2009 10:26:56 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: Steelfish

Thanks for posting. That was extremely interesting and something I knew nothing about. Good read!


18 posted on 02/27/2009 10:34:24 PM PST by Boanarges
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To: arealconservativeforachange

I don’t think so... Everyone knows there were neither clocks or calenders back then.


19 posted on 02/27/2009 10:36:05 PM PST by babygene (It seems that stupidity is the most abundant element in the universe)
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To: Steelfish

Wow. Stunning story, fantastic post.


20 posted on 02/27/2009 10:37:50 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Steelfish
Do those animal reliefs look vaguely Mesoamerican, more primitive but similar?
21 posted on 02/27/2009 10:37:57 PM PST by this_ol_patriot (I saw manbearpig and all I got was this lousy tagline.)
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To: Steelfish
Gobekli Tepe is, indeed, a 'temple in Eden', built by our leisured and fortunate ancestors - people who had time to cultivate art, architecture and complex ritual, before the traumas of agriculture ruined their lifestyle, and devastated their paradise.

It's a stunning and seductive idea. Yet it has a sinister epilogue. Because the loss of paradise seems to have had a strange and darkening effect on the human mind. A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.

Will the nonsense spawned by that idiot Rousseau EVER stop??

Man was never a "noble savage" living in harmony in a state of nature and at peace with his fellow man and environment, only to be "ruined" by society and civilization.

This idiocy was picked up by Marx who claimed that the development of human society had "alienated" man from his wonderful noble primitive self and we need communism to get back to the state of supposed wonderfulness. It's been the constant drumbeat of the Left ever since.

Hobbes and Locke got it right; Rousseau and Marx, not so much.

22 posted on 02/27/2009 10:40:40 PM PST by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: Steelfish; blam; SunkenCiv
Ping to some interesting archaeology -- with or without the religious interpretation applied in the article.

Good (and interesting) photos at the link, too...

23 posted on 02/27/2009 10:46:48 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

Well argued and absolutely correct.


24 posted on 02/27/2009 10:47:13 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: Interesting Times

Ping to some interesting archeology, although the author’s pontificating is tiresome.


25 posted on 02/27/2009 10:50:52 PM PST by zot
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To: Coyoteman

Meant to include you in the ping in #23, too...


26 posted on 02/27/2009 10:51:21 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: Richard Kimball
I think their societies were far more sophisticated than we believe.

There is evidence of prehistorical nuclear warfare.

27 posted on 02/27/2009 10:56:40 PM PST by RJR_fan (Winners and lovers shape the future. Whiners and losers TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: VeniVidiVici
"I'd say it's just as likely that the retreating glaciers changed the climate here to that of Saudi Arabia."

I'd say it was probably a little (or a lot) of both. It wouldn't take much in terms of weather pattern or rainfall changes coupled with complete deforestation to destroy the ecosystem.

I've seen it happen in huge areas of the Philippines, which is clearly a tropical setting with rabid vegetation growth. But, with no land management regulating the harvesting of natural resources, things like complete or deforestation occurred throughout the second half of last century. Now nothing, not even weeds grow in some places. Erosion of the topsoil accelerates leading to complete collapse of the ecosystem. It's quite something to see in person.

Now, if that happened in this area coupled with some mild weather pattern shifts, I could see how it could easily be catastrophic. I'm not a enviro-whacko, but I do believe we should take reasonable care of what God gave us.

28 posted on 02/27/2009 10:57:11 PM PST by Big_Monkey
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To: Big_Monkey

>Now, if that happened in this area coupled with some mild weather pattern shifts, I could see how it could easily be catastrophic. I’m not a enviro-whacko, but I do believe we should take reasonable care of what God gave us.

Well, He did say that we’re to tame the Earth and subdue it... IE something like a Head Gardener for an estate back in “Ye Olde English Dayes”.


29 posted on 02/27/2009 11:02:12 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
Yep. Life in paradise was "nasty brutish and short."
30 posted on 02/27/2009 11:03:34 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Steelfish
The odd beak and head on the bird in that particular carving calls to mind the Dodo bird.


31 posted on 02/27/2009 11:15:28 PM PST by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: Steelfish
Whatever the answer, the parallels with our own era are stark. As we contemplate a new age of ecological turbulence, maybe the silent, sombre, 12,000-year-old stones of Gobekli Tepe are trying to speak to us, to warn us, as they stare across the first Eden we destroyed.

Gaia worship barf alert. This isn't what I would call objective journalism.
32 posted on 02/27/2009 11:24:04 PM PST by dr_who
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To: RJR_fan
There is evidence of prehistorical nuclear warfare.

Say, what?

33 posted on 02/27/2009 11:37:34 PM PST by Bellflower (The end of this age is near but the beginning of the next glorious one is coming!)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyberborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west
34 posted on 02/27/2009 11:40:51 PM PST by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: Eternal_Bear

(BIG GRIN!!)


35 posted on 02/27/2009 11:43:44 PM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: RJR_fan; Bellflower
There is evidence of prehistorical nuclear warfare. Chariot of the Gods stuff Erich von Däniken
36 posted on 02/27/2009 11:52:49 PM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center 1971?)
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To: Eternal_Bear

“...Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet.”


37 posted on 02/28/2009 12:00:32 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Steelfish

This is an odd thread, it is such a great article and the link down thread to the national geographic article about this find was very good also, unfortunately I get the impression that only a few people read either article.


38 posted on 02/28/2009 12:10:38 AM PST by ansel12 ( Am I the only freeper that has been held in an American internment center 1971?)
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To: this_ol_patriot

I agree, there is a distinctly paleo-american air to me. The animal reliefs remind me of Tiahuanaco. And that reptile they unearthed reminds me of reliefs from that giant lake in Nicaragua.


39 posted on 02/28/2009 12:13:06 AM PST by tanuki (Summum ius summa injuria. (The more law, the less justice))
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To: ansel12

> This is an odd thread, it is such a great article and the link down thread to the national geographic article about this find was very good also, unfortunately I get the impression that only a few people read either article.

As articles go, I thought they were amazingly cool. It is seldom that archaeologists find artifacts such as these that tip on its head our idea of what Civilization was, and when and how it formed.

I have long thought that Civilization is older and more marvelous than we have yet conceived. Robert E Howard may have come closest with his “Conan” fictions...


40 posted on 02/28/2009 12:17:52 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
Will the nonsense spawned by that idiot Rousseau EVER stop??

Man was never a "noble savage" living in harmony in a state of nature and at peace with his fellow man and environment, only to be "ruined" by society and civilization.

This idiocy was picked up by Marx who claimed that the development of human society had "alienated" man from his wonderful noble primitive self and we need communism to get back to the state of supposed wonderfulness. It's been the constant drumbeat of the Left ever since.

Amen, Brother Freeper, and preach on!!

41 posted on 02/28/2009 12:18:30 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: dr_who

"Like, as we contemplate a new age of ecological
turbulence,like, maybe the silent, sombre, 12,000-year-old
stones of Gobekli Tepe are,like, trying to speak
to us, to, like, warn us, as they stare across the
first Eden we destroyed....dig it,man?"

42 posted on 02/28/2009 12:26:16 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
Will the nonsense spawned by that idiot Rousseau EVER stop??

The idiots, usually socialists or communists, who think living in a primitive hunter-gathering tribe was paradise, don't know what they are talking about. Those ancient people barely survived and I doubt they had much leisure time.

I have read an interesting theory that collectivists adore primitive tribalism because their minds are not developed enough to appreciate any form of human society beside a primitive tribe run by a strongman or an oligarchy. For millions of years all people knew was primitive tribalism, so people are still hard-wired to like that sort of arrangement.

Collectivists feel that even agriculture is vaguely "unnatural" and a threatening innovation. And they have even stronger misgivings about the Industrial Revolution and representative democracy. They cannot understand the sophisticated concepts in the Magna Carta or the U.S. Constitution. But collectivists instinctively understand a Stalin, Hitler or Mussolini who rules the "tribe" by commands, and most leftists long to be a "priest" in a one-party state, lording it over people. They think that because, theoretically, the best hunter could run a tribe of a few hundred hunters, that somehow this model can be expanded and a dictator can effectively rule a modern society by decree. So really the "progressives" want to take us back many thousands of years.

43 posted on 02/28/2009 1:08:25 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Steelfish

I took this article to be on the level, until the last paragraph. Now I realize it’s from “The Onion.”


44 posted on 02/28/2009 1:25:17 AM PST by Misterioso (Obama was elected not in spite of his color but because of it.)
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To: Big_Monkey
Except that regarding Gobekli Tepe there is not a shred of evidence that this happened.
While the site formally belongs to the earliest Neolithic (PPN A), up to now no traces of domesticated plants or animals have been found. The inhabitants were hunters and gatherers. Schmidt speculates that the site played a key function in the transition to agriculture; he assumes that the necessary social organization needed for the creation of these structures went hand-in-hand with the organized exploitation of wild crops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe (emphasis is mine).

Herr Schmidt could be correct but it's a hell of a jump to say that the regional climate was destroyed by farming when there is no evidence farming much less destructive farming.

45 posted on 02/28/2009 1:33:34 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
The odd beak and head on the bird in that particular carving calls to mind the Dodo bird.

Yes, but why is it playing volleyball, and what is the meaning of the padlocks? And is the scorpion watching the volleyball game, or is it unrelated. So many deep theological questions here.

46 posted on 02/28/2009 1:38:32 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Steelfish

If this is the garden of Eden, where’s the conniving talking snake’s descendents?

Only idiots believe Eden / Adam / Eve to have been real. Serves them for believing in Stone-Age mythology.


47 posted on 02/28/2009 1:42:37 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

As opposed to believeing in a multi-armed elephant God?


48 posted on 02/28/2009 1:53:52 AM PST by Dat
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To: Dat
As opposed to believeing in a multi-armed elephant God?

This is not any opposition; rather, a complete alliance! Both are equals, in the realms of human stupidity.

49 posted on 02/28/2009 2:08:00 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: Steelfish

The piece had to get that little “man changes climate” bit in there. Of course.


50 posted on 02/28/2009 2:43:49 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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