Discipline of Military Redirects Dropouts

The New York Times ^ | March 7, 2009 | ERIK ECKHOLM

[Amelia]

FORT GORDON, Ga. — By his own account, Donte’ A. Dungey had no motivation in high school, sleeping through classes and sometimes showing up only for the free lunch to reduce the burden on his mother, who was struggling with nine other children. Held back three times and scheduled to enter the 10th grade at nearly 18, he knew that “high school just wasn’t going to work for me,” he said.

But he was also ready to change. More than five months ago, Mr. Dungey took up residence in a program for dropouts called Youth Challenge, run by the National Guard, that is proving effective at using military atmosphere and discipline to turn around at-risk teenagers.

[Amelia]

I've known a number of students who have gone through this program - and quite a few more who would have if the waiting lists weren't so long - and it seems to work very well for many of them, although not for all.

It is amazing to see a child who was a thoroughly unmotivated student emerge from this program as a bright and polite young man with prospects for a future. Some of them do crave discipline.

[raybbr]

But he was also ready to change.

Gotta slip that in somewhere.

[YellowRoseofTx]

This proves that children need, and unknowingly want, structure, limits and discipline. It’s human nature, even though they rebel, that is part of their growing. They push the limits to see how far they can go, but want the limit to feel secure.

[bankcritic]

Speaking as someone who wears the uniform I can tell you that I've seen alot of young people come into the organization that I would have avoided on the streets, and after their indoctrination (I dont really like that word for the negative connotation it has (sounds like we're making robot zombies or something), but it most accuratly describes the process) they emerge as motivated people with direction. It's not for everyone and you have to be ready to change yourself.

Lot of people don't get this but if the person doesn't want to change then the program won't work. I guess its alot like AA, unless you want to stop drinking, AA isn't going to help you.

[areukiddingme1]

You are so right — I saw it for the 20 years I was in the Navy.

They are apparently just now figuring out what the rest of us have known in this country for over 233 years...Army (Born 14 June 1775), Navy (Born 13 October 1775), Marines (Born 10 November 1775).

Taking boys and making them motivated, hard charging, disciplined Patriot’s for over 233 years — God Bless America! God Bless our Troops!

[Amelia]

This proves that children need, and unknowingly want, structure, limits and discipline. It’s human nature, even though they rebel, that is part of their growing. They push the limits to see how far they can go, but want the limit to feel secure.

I agree. However, many parents don't want to provide those things, and they don't want the schools to provide them either.

[Leisler]

Not being a class struggle bigot or anything, but I tell a lot of well off families that their sons who have lived privileged, elite lives would really benefit from being in the military, getting up close and personal with lower classes, seeing past peoples superficial appearances. That their good education would help the military and that years later they would look back at their service as one of the best parts of their lives.

Unfortunately, I usually get blank, are you crazy look.

[MikefromOhio]

The wifey and I already decided that if our daughter wants to go into the military, she’ll go in as an officer...

the military is a great tool for maturing a 17 or 18 year old kid into an adult - the maturity which a lot of the kids today lack in every respect.

[yazoo]

All I remember is that 2 years in the Army was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[bankcritic]

It's something you have to want to do. In terms of development, its hard to replicate the kind of experiences and camraderie you get by marching 20 miles with a 70 pound rucksack on your back with a group of people. I sometimes tell people you only really get to know others after you've suffered with them. That's something that gets missed alot in today's world.

I also think you don't really get to know yourself until you've had to suffer for a while, till all the layers of bullshit we surround ourselves with get peeled away and we find what we are actually capable of and who we really are. I think that's really the experience that you get by going through a military training camp and that's what actually changes people.

For people who are more likely to be making decisions that affect large groups of people (children of wealthy families) I think they should go through that so they know themselves and some of what they will be putting others through (not saying that its ONLY wealthy people that make decisions, but I think its more likely).

[bankcritic]

For people who are more likely to be making decisions that affect large groups of people (children of wealthy families) I think they should go through that so they know themselves and some of what they will be putting others through (not saying that its ONLY wealthy people that make decisions, but I think its more likely).

Just want to clarify this statement because it's not clear what I mean, I think most people will get what I was driving at, but for my own piece of mind I'd like to make it clearer.

The wealthy are most likely to own their own businesses or be in a position within a company to make decisions affecting large numbers of workers. They are also more likely to be involved with government at the stratiegic level therefore I don't think I'm out of line if I say that the wealthy kids should go though a period of suffering to understand what being less privilaged is like.

[jwpjr]

Sadly, the program would be even more successful if it accepted kids who were in elementary school. Problem is though, that smacks so much of Nazi Germany and radical Islam. Both of whom has show how effective it is, but chose, and choose, to use it for the dark side.

Any first, second, or third grade teacher worth his or her salt can identify students who are on the road to a lifetime of problems.

My wife has been a preschool director for over 30 years, 25 in the same program. She can tell you after the parents and prospective student(s) take ‘the tour’ if they stand any chance of making it in the real world of preschool. It's really sad when we've come to the point that preschool is a part of the ‘real world.’

[Oatka]

Not being a class struggle bigot or anything, but I tell a lot of well off families that their sons who have lived privileged, elite lives would really benefit from being in the military, getting up close and personal with lower classes, seeing past peoples superficial appearances. That their good education would help the military and that years later they would look back at their service as one of the best parts of their lives.
Unfortunately, I usually get blank, are you crazy look.

Yeah. I get the "Why should I thow away four years of my life?" routine. They completely miss the point.

Starting in 1951. I put in three years, eight months and 24 days (roughly) in the USN. I look back on it with neither fond nor negative memories, but I do realize that it was the best thing this pink-cheeked 17-year-old did at that time, compared to my peers. I learned a Helluva lot about peple and the world pretty fast.

[DEPcom]

This is nothing new.

I was a high school drop out for a year because school was boring in Fort Lauderdale Florida where you take skills test to move to the next grade. Back in the early 80s those skills exams where the same test year to year starting at eight grade. Teachers would often give the same lessons from grade to grade, how to pass the exam.

One day I decided I wanted to go into the Army Reserves, and discover I needed to complete high school or get a GED. The recruiter convinced me into finishing high school, and signing up for the split option program, where I attended basic training between my junior and senior year.

Basic Training gave me the discipline to complete high school and a 4 year college degree. I am also retired after 22 years of Active duty Service in the Army then the Air Force.

Service is a great place if you lack the focus and discipline to achieve goals.

[Amelia]

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[metmom]

It sounds like it’s the perfect thing for a kid who is not really messed up but lacks direction and purpose in life.

I’m guessing that the authority figure that these young men crave and lack with no father around, is what straightens them out.

[CottonBall]

Not being a class struggle bigot or anything, but I tell a lot of well off families that their sons who have lived privileged, elite lives would really benefit from being in the military, getting up close and personal with lower classes, seeing past peoples superficial appearances. That their good education would help the military and that years later they would look back at their service as one of the best parts of their lives.

Unfortunately, I usually get blank, are you crazy look.

Well, you're not getting one now. ;) Our son, who is 17 and has lived a pretty easy life, is going into the Air Force when he graduates. We are very proud of him. And you're right - since our son has decided to go into the military, people have come out of the woodwork to tell him of their experiences in it, whether they were in for 20 years or just 4. It obviously had a great impact on all of them. I espeically get a kick out of the older men who talk about their service as if it was just a couple of years ago.