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To Obama and his cronies-what orders US military will not obey
Defend Our Freedoms Blog ^ | March 11, 2009 | Orly Taitz

Posted on 03/11/2009 8:21:23 AM PDT by conservativegramma

From: http://www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com

U. S. Military, Veterans, and Peace Officers

Our oath is to the Constitution of the United States of America.

It is NOT to the President..., and that oath will be kept,......

Oath Keepers is a non partisan association of currently serving military, veterans, and peace officers who will fulfill our oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the President, not to Congress, and not to any political party. In the long-standing tradition of the U.S. military, we are apolitical. We don’t care if unlawful orders come from a Democrat or a Republican, or if the violation is bi-partisan. We will not obey unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law.. We won’t “just follow orders." Our motto: “Not on Our Watch!”

There is at this time a debate within the ranks of the military regarding their oath. Some mistakenly believe they must follow any order the President issues. But many others do understand that their loyalty is to the Constitution and to the people, and understand what that means.

The mission of Oath Keepers is to vastly increase their numbers. [This confliction MUST NOT be allowed to continue within our military...]

(Excerpt) Read more at defendourfreedoms.us ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; bho2009; bho44; bhodod; cicobama; democrats; donttreadonme; oath; obama; possecomitatus; usmilitary
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To: Don Corleone

Our oath is to the Constitution of the United States of America. Read and understand it Got that liberals?


51 posted on 03/11/2009 9:57:05 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: conservativegramma

It’s not just the military that needs to say “NO” when an unconstitutional “order” (or law) comes down.

There are plenty of civies that need to say no to things like the removal of the conscience clause in abortion cases, the “food safety” and “clothing and toy safety” acts, or any attempt to outlaw homeschooling, etc.


52 posted on 03/11/2009 10:03:15 AM PDT by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: mgc1122

Now, that is frightening!


53 posted on 03/11/2009 10:06:51 AM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Terabitten
If I want to pass an IG inspection, I'd go with an active duty unit. If I want to pass combat, I'd go with a National Guard unit.

No kidding.


54 posted on 03/11/2009 10:06:53 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It took almost 250 years to make the USA great and 30 days for BO to tear it down.)
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To: Roklok
No Offense, but the National Guard are a bunch of civilians just following orders.

Not anymore. That was true for the post WWII thru Vietnam eras. But when Clinton restructured the military to peel away money for his social programs they put the majority of the country's combat punch into the national guard and reserve systems. I lost track of the number of deployments the FL National Guard has had to either Iraq or Afghanistan. The state guards have been battle tested and emerged as steel. They can't be denigrated as Weekend Warriors ever again.

Now, as to whether they will obey orders that inflict direct harm to American citizens, I dunno for certain but I think they will, mostly. About 75% to 85% will act against the populace. Here is why: They are mostly products of the public schools and have the same limitations in their educational backgrounds. There is a reason for the "dumbing down" in school. If you never learn the truth about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, you're less likely to wish to lay down your life protecting something you never learned and don't understand. We have bred our children into liberal sheep who will follow orders like good little lemmings, no matter what the cost to freedom. There is significant information to support this theory. Case studies going back generations, too.

55 posted on 03/11/2009 10:10:30 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Salamander

You know there are some strange parallels, but Lincoln Barry is not. Lincoln would lead people to revolt.


56 posted on 03/11/2009 10:10:35 AM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: conservativegramma

When I was in the Army, our company commander told us that if he were ordered to take a squad of us and open fire on everyone in Times Square with machine guns, he’d do it. And if any of us refused to do it, he’d blow our brains out on the spot.


57 posted on 03/11/2009 10:15:34 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: WayneS

What about Ruby Ridge and Waco? That was the FBI and BATF!Their officers couldn’t wait to pull the trigger against civilian targets. There wasn’t much concern for constitutionality in those cases.


58 posted on 03/11/2009 10:15:58 AM PDT by MountainYankee
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To: Terabitten

Doesnt it say for law enforcement? It doesnt say they cant be used, IIRC.


59 posted on 03/11/2009 10:18:15 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Obama told NYT Medicare Drug & TARP not his fault- he VOTED FOR THEM!!!)
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To: PghBaldy

The thing I have a problem with is this- Bush pushed for things because of Katrina and 9/11 which I trusted, and now if Obama were to do the same thing, I would distrust. I fear there are many like me who for party loyalty let some things slide. It is so clear now. I hope other conservatives can see this quickly. Obama is just the other side of the coin which is DC elites, be it either party who pushes for more than we should give. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:h5122enr.txt.pdf


60 posted on 03/11/2009 10:24:54 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Obama told NYT Medicare Drug & TARP not his fault- he VOTED FOR THEM!!!)
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To: MountainYankee

Correct. Which is why I harbor that fear.


61 posted on 03/11/2009 10:31:54 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: LibWhacker
I hope he's tucked away somewhere in an asylum now.
62 posted on 03/11/2009 10:32:41 AM PDT by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: mgc1122

Good ol’ John Warner.

Don’t you just miss him already?


63 posted on 03/11/2009 10:33:06 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: ExSoldier

RE: “the dumbing down”: Well said - And a very valid point... unfortunately.


64 posted on 03/11/2009 10:36:10 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: WayneS

“Good ol’ John Warner.

Don’t you just miss him already?”

My thoughts on Warner are not printable in this forum ...


65 posted on 03/11/2009 10:37:06 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: PghBaldy
I fear there are many like me who for party loyalty let some things slide...

Well then, no offense, but shame on you and those like you for that.

Our loyalty should be to the Constitution of the United States of America. Always! No matter who is in office.

66 posted on 03/11/2009 10:38:35 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: mgc1122

Mine either.

That is why I resorted to sarcasm.


67 posted on 03/11/2009 10:39:09 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: zipper
The truth is, in a time of civil unrest, National Guard members are more likely to follow the Constitution than a group of careerist regulars, who are so submerged in their own isolated military culture, they have less compassion for civilians.

I think we might have a winner!!! Excellent point!

68 posted on 03/11/2009 10:41:36 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: mgc1122

Mine either! He was a real piece of work!


69 posted on 03/11/2009 10:47:21 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies - C.S. Lewis)
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To: ExSoldier

Sadly, this freeper must note you are all too correct. The populace has been dumbed down and degeneracy has been defined down so far that most young people do not see anything as truly degenerate on their sliding scale of morality. With such a people our Constitutional Republic type of government cannot survive. And we see it dying before our very eyes!


70 posted on 03/11/2009 10:47:29 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: conservativegramma

I’m not besmirching the character of our uniformed men and women, but today’s average military member has received a public education that has been tainted by a left wing agenda. I do not take any comfort in them knowing the real purpose of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and therefore I do not take comfort in their ability to discern a lawful from an unlawful order. To put it bluntly, they have been dumbed down, Constitutionally speaking. This has been a big part of the left’s agenda all along.


71 posted on 03/11/2009 10:47:38 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Roklok; Arrowhead1952; darkwing104; BIGLOOK; ASA Vet
but the National Guard are a bunch of civilians just following orders.

Dude, you need to retract that statement.

Now.

72 posted on 03/11/2009 10:57:45 AM PDT by Old Sarge ("Remember, remember, the Fourth of November, the Socialist treason and plot...")
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To: mgc1122

Our tradition is of a “housebroken” military that serves it’s civilian masters. On the one hand, you have the advantage of not being subject to military rule by “the Colonel of the Month.” On the other hand, I suspect that the vast majority of the military WILL follow orders, because that’s what they’ve been conditioned to do. Like the Stormtroopers from Star Wars.

Also, you can expect that any officers signing this Constitution Oath will be weeded out of any command posts, and forced into retirement. 0bama wants a housebroken military, but it has to be one that hears his voice as master.


73 posted on 03/11/2009 10:59:19 AM PDT by henkster (0bamanomics: "I'll loan you all the money you need to get out of debt.")
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To: conservativegramma

My thought too.


74 posted on 03/11/2009 11:02:21 AM PDT by Islander7 (If you want to anger conservatives, lie to them. If you want to anger liberals, tell them the truth.)
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To: WayneS

Thanks for the encouragement... Here is part of the law which effectively repealed posse commitatus, but then was repealed itself in 2008...

SEC. 1076. USE OF THE ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMER-
GENCIES.
(a) USEOFTHEARMEDFORCESAUTHORIZED.—
(1) INGENERAL.—Section 333 of title 10, United States
Code, is amended to read as follows:
‘‘§333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and
Federal law
‘‘(a) USEOFARMEDFORCESINMAJORPUBLICEMERGENCIES.—
(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the
National Guard in Federal service, to—
‘‘(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United
States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or
other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or
incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the
United States, the President determines that—
‘‘(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent
that the constituted authorities of the State or possession
are incapable of maintaining public order; and
‘‘(ii) such violence results in a condition described in
paragraph (2); or
‘‘(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic
violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrec-
tion, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition
described in paragraph (2).
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:h5122enr.txt.pdf


75 posted on 03/11/2009 11:02:30 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Obama told NYT Medicare Drug & TARP not his fault- he VOTED FOR THEM!!!)
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To: McKayopectate

They will not turn into the German military in the 1930s who swore an oath to Hitler, which ultimately destroyed their county and led to millions of deaths worldwide.

Which is why Obama needs a new civilian army.
______________
BINGO! and when he starts forming that, you know the takeover is getting very close.


76 posted on 03/11/2009 11:03:35 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( Idiots elected a Marxist ideologue with narcissistic personality disorder & America is dying.)
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To: mgc1122

That was repealed in 2008.


77 posted on 03/11/2009 11:04:52 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Obama told NYT Medicare Drug & TARP not his fault- he VOTED FOR THEM!!!)
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To: Roklok

As someone who has been both active duty and National Guard this is my opinion.

Guardsmen won’t go against their own people. You tell them to take the guns away from their family, friends, employers, landlords, etc. Well hell it is just a weekend duty so screw that, they will either refuse to carry out the order or else go AWOL. UCMJ actions has less weight than active duty.

But you can send rural Guard units to urban areas and I think they could justify carrying out the orders as getting the gangbangers under control and you could send urban Guard units to rural areas and they would justify it as disarming the KKK rednecks.

Active duty, a fairly large minority population that would obey the President and would report officers and NCO’s who don’t support Obama. Units without a majority of people loyal to the location they are stationed. Fairly short tour of duties at each post limits strong unity among soldiers. Their careers, housing, food, health care, family support all depends on they remaining on active duty. Finally if we allow gays to serve openly then the liberals will have another way to keep tabs of the loyality of the units to the administration. They will be like the Soviets political officers.

Marines, I say would be the most likely active duty force to disobey unlawful orders but in the case of a civil war if the administration controls key units of the air force and navy and the army and key supply depots then most likely the Marines and whatever National Guard and active units that join them will lose.


78 posted on 03/11/2009 11:05:59 AM PDT by Swiss ("Thus always to tyrants")
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To: PghBaldy
We all make mistakes. I actually voted for Clinton in 1992 - and staretd regretting it before the year was even over.

So, based on your last post, posse commitatus is BACK? I hope you are correct.

Not that the Obamessiah and his Obamites would follow the law anyway, but at least we'll have it on OUR side if/when trouble starts.

79 posted on 03/11/2009 11:07:15 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: DarthVader
We were at a social function last week and the conversation somehow turned to that subject. There were about 150-175 people, Democrats, Republicans, many Independents as well. The majority thought if that happened that it would be a cultural war. With the blacks against the whites, Communists, Socialists against mainstream America, not a North vs. South this time. All agree big cities would be a nightmare. Most agreed that martial law would occur, the military would split probably about 1/4th of the military would obey the President, the rest would not. I'm not sure how it would play out, only that I hope that never happens.
80 posted on 03/11/2009 11:09:17 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( Idiots elected a Marxist ideologue with narcissistic personality disorder & America is dying.)
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To: Swiss
Yes. Sending the Guard units OUT of their home territory to take care of "troublemakers" who they don't even know. That will be part of the plan.

If you have never read a book by Anthony Burgess (author of A Clockwork Orange) called The Wanting Seed, then I highly recommend it. It strikes even closer to home as regards our current situation than does 1984, in my opinion.

81 posted on 03/11/2009 11:11:03 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: RC2

It will be interesting to see how the military operates when considering racial lines.
____________
I think we know the answer to that one


82 posted on 03/11/2009 11:12:19 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( Idiots elected a Marxist ideologue with narcissistic personality disorder & America is dying.)
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To: conservativegramma
Constitutional law applies whether one affirms this or not.

This is something to consider as to who would have the moral high ground in enforcing anti-second amendment laws.

83 posted on 03/11/2009 11:13:20 AM PDT by HammerT (Buy them before they BAN them!!!!!!)
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To: ExSoldier

About 75% to 85% will act against the populace.

BS


84 posted on 03/11/2009 11:14:57 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( Idiots elected a Marxist ideologue with narcissistic personality disorder & America is dying.)
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To: Roklok; Old Sarge
Dude, you need to retract that statement.

Dittos to that Old Sarge.

Quoting another FReeper [Terabitten in reply #17]

"If I want to pass an IG inspection, I'd go with an active duty unit. If I want to pass combat, I'd go with a National Guard unit. "

85 posted on 03/11/2009 11:15:43 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It took almost 250 years to make the USA great and 30 days for BO to tear it down.)
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To: mojitojoe

The 3/4 of the Armed Forces that would not follow Fauxbama represents heavily mainstream America and would crush all dissident factions and would reassert an America along those lines. All the factions you named would have no chance against them.


86 posted on 03/11/2009 11:16:25 AM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: mgc1122

That section was repealed in 2008, thereby restoring Posse Comitatus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act#Repeal_of_amendments


87 posted on 03/11/2009 11:23:00 AM PDT by PBinTX
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To: conservativegramma

“”Constitutionally legal” order. This tells me they are discussing the constitution”

The concept that an Unlawful Leader cannot give a Lawful Order is well established in International law, and was the precedents created by the Jpanese and Nazi War Crimes trials.

It is what the Germans intend to use to deflate any attempts by Demanjuk’s Lawyers to say he was “Just Following Orders” in Germany, THIS WEEK!


88 posted on 03/11/2009 11:27:59 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: mojitojoe

“the military would split probably about 1/4th of the military would obey the President, the rest would not.”

The key to that being WHO CONTROLS THE NUKES. Would a narccisist like Obama hesitate to use nukes against Americans standing against him by force of arms?

Would the corrupted, self interested people he has around him encourage him to do so to save thier own skins?


89 posted on 03/11/2009 11:31:29 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: PBinTX

“That section was repealed in 2008, thereby restoring Posse Comitatus.”

I stand corrected and appreciate the good news.


90 posted on 03/11/2009 11:39:53 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: PghBaldy

“That was repealed in 2008.”

You are correct, and I appreciate the update.


91 posted on 03/11/2009 11:40:35 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: Swiss

When considering a scenario like this, it’s important to remember that along with the breakdown in civil order, will come the breakdown of the American Transport System.

In America Today, ESPECIALLY in the cities, most people RARELY have more than a few days food on hand. When the transport begins to break down, the flow of food STOPS.

Even the big grocer wharehouses only have a few days of food in them, thanks to “Just-In-Time” delivery methods. Even today, when a Big Snow Storm or Hurricane approaches a major city, it’s ENTIRE foodstocks can be wiped out in less than ONE DAY.

And, as we saw witness to in New Orleans, when the food, fuel, water, and Electricity get cut off, the average Democrat Voter will begin to IMMEDIATELY feed on the other Democrat Voters.

When that anarchy begins, on a nationwide scale, It’s GAME OVER for the left. How many of these San Fran and Chicago radicals do you think would survive thier fellow Democrats?


92 posted on 03/11/2009 11:42:05 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: ExSoldier; Roklok

“That was true for the post WWII thru Vietnam eras.”


That is nonsense too, the Guard and Reserves still had to attend the regular process to become whatever their title was, fighter pilots were fighter pilots and Airborne Ranger LRRPs were still Airborne Ranger LRRPs.


93 posted on 03/11/2009 11:49:22 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: Swiss

“Marines, I say would be the most likely active duty force to disobey unlawful orders”


They have already been asked the question about shooting American civilians and about a quarter of them said yes, in the
Combat Arms Survey conducted at USMC Base Twentynine Palms


94 posted on 03/11/2009 12:00:43 PM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: ponygirl

The National Guard serves at the behest of the Governor of the state in which they are assigned. If you recall from Katrina, the ballyhoo, as it were, was that the National Guard did not respond quickly enough, and that it was “Bush’s fault”. Two points: First; it is the responsibility of the Governor to activate the national guard, not the President. Second; The President cannot take command of State National Guardsmen without the epressed permission of the state (Governor). At that time President Bush did not have the constitutional authority to order the guardsmen to do anything because the Governor did not grant the federal government (President) authority over her troops. The federal government was pre-staged but the governor waited almost 72 hours before responding to the Presidents request to take control of the guard under the auspices of FEMA.


95 posted on 03/11/2009 12:14:19 PM PDT by Senior Chief (Here I am, right where I left myself.)
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To: LibWhacker

What Army is that?


96 posted on 03/11/2009 12:17:23 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: mojitojoe
BS

LOL tell me how you really feel! So those Illinois national guardsmen who busted in doors after Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and body slammed little old ladies on CNN weren't really there? That was ummm a 75 year old stunt woman! Yeah! That's the ticket! Unless you've seen and taught the national guardsmen of tomorrow as I have these last 20 years as a teacher in an inner city high school, you have no idea what you're talking about when you call BS. Please pull your head from your 4th point of contact.

97 posted on 03/11/2009 12:19:29 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: conservativegramma

Thank you! This just shows that We the People are still more powerful than He the Dictator. As it should be.


98 posted on 03/11/2009 12:22:18 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: ansel12
You misunderstood me, I didn't say they weren't required to get the specialty training for their branch or associated schools, just that since WWII thru to Vietnam, the guard and reserves were rarely called to combat. It was considered safe haven. Well, relatively safe. That's why Dan Quayle's guard service during Vietnam brought down so much fire from the msm. Same for GWB. It wasn't until Desert Storm and then post Sept 11th that the guard and reserve took on extended combat tours.
99 posted on 03/11/2009 12:23:26 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: conservativegramma
The liberals were howling about Nixon and his alleged attempt to order the military to shut Congress. I don't know if it was true but, now its our turn. Obama could just as easily order the military to do unconstitutional things. I hope the military takes its oath to the Constitution and the People seriously, lest they become the military arm of a dictatorship.
100 posted on 03/11/2009 12:25:33 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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