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When will Atlas shrug?
Denver Post ^ | 03/15/2009 | John Andrews

Posted on 03/15/2009 7:12:05 PM PDT by george76

What is the breaking point? Where will the resistance form? Heavy questions, but unavoidable in the current political climate. The productive members of society can only be pushed so far, some say.

What they envision is not defiance of law or a reversal of the election. It is people's growing disengagement from a new economic order that punishes effort and rewards envy — the creepy future that Bill Ritter and Barack Obama intend for us.

Columnist Michelle Malkin calls that withdrawal "going Galt."

Malkin was the first speaker last weekend when several hundred Coloradans gathered for a free-market leadership conference in Colorado Springs. Her reference was to John Galt, the individualist hero of Ayn Rand's novel, "Atlas Shrugged." She told of seeing a placard at the protest rally for Obama's stimulus bill signing that warned: "Atlas will shrug."

So what, you ask. In human behavior, incentives matter. People are choosers, not automatons. Mess them over enough and they're out of here. All history proves it. "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." That bitter joke among Soviet factory drones sums up collectivism's ultimate failure wherever tried.

As ever more people ride in the wagon and fewer are left to pull it, there will come a breaking point. Crowding taxation onto the highest earners and debt onto our kids, as President Obama proposes, invites collapse.

Ignoring the constitution at will, as Gov. Bill Ritter and the spending lobby do, breeds contempt. Ruin must result.

Cold War victory taught us the power of ideas. The East crumbled when the West asserted the superiority of liberty, wakened by thinkers like F.A. Hayek with his expose of the road to serfdom and Frederic Bastiat with his ridicule of "everyone seeking to live at the expense of everyone else."

(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: atlas; atlasshrugged; barack; barackobama; billritter; gault; johngalt; malkin; michellemalkin; obama; pareto; paretoprinciple; shrugged
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To: Myrddin

Existing businesses closing and new ones not opening.

For example, Cabellas was to open a new store in Denver.

The locals put up a fuss for years until approvals were finally given.

Now Cabellas is not going to build.


51 posted on 03/15/2009 10:32:44 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

Thanks for the journey, george!


52 posted on 03/15/2009 10:37:15 PM PDT by jan in Colorado (In God I have put my trust, I shall not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11)
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To: Bhoy

Yes, agree on the military stuff as well, on their website they kinda go off on them as not being concerned about the environment, but I know for a fact that most bases are kept pristine, so much so, that the land is coveted by developers, hunters, environmentalist, etc. Also,the Libertarians didn’t seem to have as much depth with respect to property rights, 2nd amendment, and anti-globalism...at least when compared to the Constitution Party. I have been talking to folks at the RNC as well, but they seem dazed and confused over there and its giving me an uneasy feeling. Thanks for your thoughts.


53 posted on 03/15/2009 10:37:59 PM PDT by John.Galt2012
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To: jan in Colorado

Good to hear from you.


54 posted on 03/15/2009 10:46:03 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

I feel like we are slowly being boiled.. with no real escape.


55 posted on 03/15/2009 11:09:23 PM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts
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To: george76

I’m all for it, once we figure out what “it” is.


56 posted on 03/15/2009 11:27:42 PM PDT by Names Ash Housewares (Refusing to kneel before the socialist messiah. 1-20-13 Freedom Day.)
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To: rawcatslyentist

Yeah, Eddie did get screwed over, huh? Lifelong friend to Dagney and never made it to the gulch.


57 posted on 03/15/2009 11:29:50 PM PDT by Two Kids' Dad (((( Two Kids' Dad ---- (T) - CA ** Join the "T" party ** ))))
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To: William Tell
Sure. And that'll make 'em mad, but it won't make them vote for conservative or libertarian policies.

A man who hates the present set up and sees it as unworkable does not become our intellectual ally in any sense, by that fact alone. That fact is politically barren. It is dry tinder for demagogues, and not any basis of rational policy. By all means let's convince them. Don't pretend we already have, when all of this was plain as a pikestaff in November, and they still voted for the wrong people.

58 posted on 03/15/2009 11:41:41 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: John.Galt2012
I once examined the libers.

sorry, I have to pass.
It not a coincidence that most of their national leaders are nuttier than fruitcakes. - Their international policy is nuts.

59 posted on 03/16/2009 1:36:43 AM PDT by bill1952 (Power is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: george76; jellybean
I've already Shrugged.
Years ago I went semi-Galt.

Left the big time of letting people use my mind and creativity, closed my productive and (generally) highly profitable businesses and only took the occasional 'flunky' level jobs to learn stuff for my own education and skill learning.

Last year, for the first time since I was 12 years old, I made sure I had no legally taxable income.

All this started before Mr. Thompson Obama was elected President.
I'm currently building my own self sufficient mini-Gulch.
Homey don't play dis no mo.

60 posted on 03/16/2009 1:52:11 AM PDT by LegendHasIt (Freepmail me if you want to join the Precious Metals ping list.)
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To: John.Galt2012
I started reading up on the Libertarians but I’m not convinced???


61 posted on 03/16/2009 2:32:13 AM PDT by Bobalu (McCain has been proven to be the rino flop I always thought he was.)
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To: george76
The Beast is being slain by a bigger beast, deflation.

The end comes within hours after the next dollar of debt produces negative GDP. Exponential math, systemic failure.

62 posted on 03/16/2009 2:38:00 AM PDT by Vet_6780 ("I see debt people")
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To: george76

Atlas doesn’t get to shrug. Atlas is going to have to fight. If Atlas believes anything else Atlas is engaging in wishful thinking.


63 posted on 03/16/2009 3:07:09 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: TalBlack

The shrug must come first. It’s the fruits of the shrug which will push the leftist even further, to the tipping point for the rest of us. When the producers stop producing and consumers stop consuming, the leftist will become more desperate and more totalitarian. We can’t fix this mess until enough people realize the situation and collectively decide to do what is necessary.


64 posted on 03/16/2009 3:25:05 AM PDT by MadPenguin (An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject!)
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To: george76
I believe there's a disturbance in the force, and the control freaks are losing control. I believe the tax slaves are finally figuring things out, and they're not happy about it.
Not only are they supporting the democrat base here in the U.S., but they're supporting the entire world as well - BEFORE they have a chance to feed their own families.

Galt is the only way to kill the beast. I hope that's happening. It'll be a rough ride, but the rewards in the end will be worth it.

65 posted on 03/16/2009 4:57:53 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Cheerio

Many thanks!

FReepers are the best!


66 posted on 03/16/2009 5:10:51 AM PDT by Islander7 (If you want to anger conservatives, lie to them. If you want to anger liberals, tell them the truth.)
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To: LegendHasIt
I've already Shrugged.
Years ago I went semi-Galt.

Ditto. Too many people WANT everything without having to do something to earn it. In order for that to happen, there has to be slaves. Today, the U.S. tax payers are being used as slaves to the world and they're figuring it out.

67 posted on 03/16/2009 5:12:50 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: george76

“collectivism’s ultimate failure wherever tried”

those that think socialism has always failed don’t understand its purpose


68 posted on 03/16/2009 5:21:08 AM PDT by fnord (There's a reason we don't often hear about a Michelob deal gone bad.)
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To: george76

Hopefully never. Despite her facile, repetitive writing style, Ayn Rand seems to be one of those authors that people discuss more than they read. Has the author read the book?

The result of Atlas Shrugging (or Going Galt, or however you want to put it) was that civilization collapsed and billions of people died. Rand never could align several of her issues, and as such, there’s a fair amount of incoherency in her books.

See, while Rand idolizes all the titans of industry (which she supposes must all think like her in the end), she depicts them as fatalist cowards. Rather than fight back and fend off the nanny-state, she depicts them as all retreating to a “Eureka”-like village, adopting the tactics of the labor movement she so abhors. They never do step back in when they declare, “see, you guys do need us!” (Although the book does include a 150-page rehash of all of its ideas, “This is John Galt.”) Instead, they watch billions of people die while they retreat to an existence closer to Rousseau’s ideal than Edison’s, Reagan’s or Locke’s. In some ways, it’s a fantastically better written companion piece to “The Turner Diaries.”

Eddie is the character which most exposes Rand’s confusion. While the “heroine” Dagny Taggart is going off exploring her sexuality with three different lovers, it’s Eddie, not Dagny, who literally keeps the trains running, demonstrating leadership, intelligence and creativity. Rand actually details his fantastic role in quite some detail. But because Eddie isn’t the ideologue that Dagny is, the reader never gets his point-of-view in the literary sense. At the end, he’s left outside the Eureka-like village.


69 posted on 03/16/2009 5:34:13 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
she depicts them as fatalist cowards. Rather than fight back and fend off the nanny-state

To be used as a slave, or not to be used as a slave? That is the question.

70 posted on 03/16/2009 5:47:13 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: concerned about politics

You do know that the answer to that question was to die, don’t you?


71 posted on 03/16/2009 6:07:41 AM PDT by dangus
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To: george76

Never.
Atlas has bills to pay and a family to feed. If he shrugs, they get evicted and/or starve.
One of the things I always noticed about Galt’s Gulch and Rand’s heroes - there are never any kids... Maybe they’re not allowed to be seen OR heard... or maybe she forgot completely about them.


72 posted on 03/16/2009 6:17:26 AM PDT by Little Ray (Do we have a Plan B?)
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To: dangus
You do know that the answer to that question was to die, don’t you?

Well, let's face it. Our options are limited. Either way, we lose. Think Joseph Stalin.

73 posted on 03/16/2009 6:29:01 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: concerned about politics
>>>>>>>> she depicts them as fatalist cowards. Rather than fight back and fend off the nanny-state <<<<<<<<

>>>>>>To be used as a slave, or not to be used as a slave? That is the question. <<<<<<

>>>>You do know that the answer to that question was to die, don’t you?<<<<

>>Well, let's face it. Our options are limited. Either way, we lose. Think Joseph Stalin. <<

To accept death while there are still battles left to be fought is cowardice, so yes, I'll say it:

Ayn Rand is to capitalism what David Koresh was, at least in legend, to religion.

74 posted on 03/16/2009 7:18:27 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

For those not familiar with what we’re discussing:

When I said, “You do know the answer to that question was to die, don’t you?” I was referring to Spartacus. Ayn Rand did not advocate suicide. However, I would suggest that for these industry titans to withdraw from the world and its implementation of their technology is analogous to suicide for those who struggled so hard to prosper.


75 posted on 03/16/2009 7:22:02 AM PDT by dangus
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To: george76; BIGLOOK

Probably what will have more impact than Galt will be when the real producers realize and understand: The Pareto principle (also known as the 80-20 rule).

In some organizations and maybe society, the top 10 of producers may produce 90% of the results.

When Zer0’s ‘punish the so called rich bs’ starts to impact these people/high producers, they take steps to protect themselves and their families from being pillaged and raped to provide a lifestyle for the non producers.

There will be a double hit on these producers in states like California as they are taxed more and more to pay for the illegals in our society and the left wing drones.


76 posted on 03/16/2009 8:01:11 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foriegn/domestic terrorists, or tax evaders?)
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To: Grampa Dave

We who have been pulling this welfare wagon full of lazy bums are fed up.

We are retiring, cutting back...as we can.

The final straw for many of us is when the lazy crooks complain that we are not pulling fast enough.

Now, they can try to pull their own wagon without us.


77 posted on 03/16/2009 8:16:31 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Cheerio
"It is not my design (and didn't intend to make it appear so)."


No worries...the graphic is signed. ;o)

Thank you for the link!

78 posted on 03/16/2009 8:42:30 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 ("Most Effective Obama Critics: Charles Dow and Edward Jones" ~ John McCormack ~ The Weekly Standard)
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To: Force of Truth

ah! a voice of reason

Thank you ...


79 posted on 03/16/2009 8:50:44 AM PDT by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: Bhoy
As long as the democrats stay united a third party only means the conservative side loses again no matter what the name of the third party and its platform is ...

The Republican conservative party has got to grow and change from being a bunch of old pale, white haired men that only allows a candidate to emerge and have a turn at being President ... only after he has paid his dues for years,... which has prov en to be as losing policy.

THEY MUST GO FORWARD WITH YOUNGER STRONG CANDIDATES WITH TRUE CONSERVATIVE BASIS. Otherwise we are whistling past the graveyard.

One thing the democrats do that works, is get behind who ever their candidate is and supports him. They will vote for a yellow dog ... truly, if he were their candidate.

80 posted on 03/16/2009 9:06:48 AM PDT by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: george76
The closest Cabela's to my house is in Lehi, UT. It's well over 200 miles one way. The place has an amazing taxidermy display distributed throughout the store. Pricing and stock availability is average. Certainly not so good as to prompt a 200+ mile drive if shopping was the prime objective.
81 posted on 03/16/2009 9:19:32 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: MadPenguin

“We can’t fix this mess until enough people realize the situation and collectively decide to do what is necessary”

As long as everybody realizes that, even under the best of circumstances, ‘enough’ will never be ‘a lot’.


82 posted on 03/16/2009 12:56:27 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: Billthedrill
Franciso never hired the best people to begin with in Mexico. He made that clear at Reardon's party. In his final shrug, he DID take his best people with him to Gault's Gulch. The MSM called them all "traitors". Wyatt tookhis people with him after his blow out. Reardon did the same. He even took his secretary and company doctor. Only Dagny seemed to leave everyone behind.
83 posted on 03/16/2009 1:08:09 PM PDT by Clock King
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To: george76

btt


84 posted on 03/16/2009 1:49:55 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: fnord; george76
"those that think socialism has always failed don’t understand its purpose "

Interesting point.....not too often made.

It seems to me, after almost six decades as a voting-age adult and having been exposed to the theories, strategies, and tactics of Marx and all the subsequent deriviatives thereof, that the main purpose has always been the control of the mind, property, and souls of those they rule.

On this basis a case could be made that Marxism, Fabianism, Socialism, Nazism, Communism, Gramsci_ism, and a few others have always succeeded.

"Failure" is a legitimate attribute only if other sordid undesirable (from their point of view) attributes such as "freedom", "prosperity", "liberty", and "happiness" have to be included in the analysis.

85 posted on 03/16/2009 2:16:14 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: SpitfyrAce
It strikes me as hilarious that libs can talk about how some people are born gay or born some such way that justifies their standards or morality, but when someone is born to be a leader and producer in our capitalist system then that person must surely be a greedy bastard deserving of nothing but scorn.

The one that gets me is that they glorify natural athletes and those who have a gift for entertaining others. Nothing wrong with being born with those natural abilities and using them to make millions, but you'd better not be born with a brain for business and use it to make money, because that's just greedy. The hypocrisy is fascinating.

86 posted on 03/16/2009 2:33:50 PM PDT by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: dangus
The result of Atlas Shrugging (or Going Galt, or however you want to put it) was that civilization collapsed and billions of people died.

Galt et al didn't just leave because they felt like it, and civilization was already collapsing when they left.

Have you read the book yourself? Galt, Reardon, Mulligan, and the like all left society as a means of fleeing the inevitable collapse of a runaway socialist civilization. That decision was not made in a vacuum, and that collapse did not happen solely as a result of their flight. Billions died... and they would have died anyway, when their were no more productive victims to feed upon.
87 posted on 03/16/2009 2:36:15 PM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU ARE A GUTLESS SOCIALIST LOSER WITH NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.)
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To: familyop

This is how a billion plus people will die from famine and disease. If the shipping business that ship food and supplies gets chopped down so drastically, there’s no way to ramp up quickly.


88 posted on 03/16/2009 2:38:35 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: snowrip

>> Galt et al didn’t just leave because they felt like it, and civilization was already collapsing when they left. <<

No, they did something to flee... but they did flee.

>> Galt, Reardon, Mulligan, and the like all left society as a means of fleeing the inevitable collapse of a runaway socialist civilization. <<

Inevitable? Well Galt certainly abandoned all hope, but that’s precisely what’s so damned contemptible about the story. It divides humankind into two camps: a tiny number of producers, and a preponderance of leeches. But what about people like Eddie? Eddie didn’t build the railroad like Dagny did; he stayed within the corporation he rose up through, and so seems to have discarded as useless. Is he? He kept the railroad running while Dagny was experimenting with multiple sexual dalliances, demonstrating leadership, courage, persistence, intelligence, loyalty, and creativity. Galt and Taggart didn’t believe in God, and neither did Rand. So when they perceived they were losing, they abandoned hope and assured the utter destruction of everything they had created. In the end, they were LOSERS because they had no source of hope, in either God nor the inherent nature of man to desire freedom. Through Taggart and Galt, Rand expressed her belief that man was content being a useless serf to a socialistic totalitarian nanny-state. And because of that belief, Taggart and Galt surrendered in the face of that nanny-state. Contrast their behavior, say, to Frodo Baggins’.

>> Have you read the book yourself? <<

That’s a fairly insulting question, because the implication is that I’m parroting someone else’s interpretation. Have you read anyone else make similar points to mine?


89 posted on 03/16/2009 2:55:49 PM PDT by dangus
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To: rawcatslyentist

THANK YOU! I had gotten wrapped up in my own discussion on this thread, and was wondering if anyone else notices the prepostrous injustice Rand / Taggart / Galt serves to Eddie.


90 posted on 03/16/2009 2:58:45 PM PDT by dangus
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To: SuperLuminal

Classical Athens lasted about 170 years. This may be all that we can do as Americans before sinking into the mire of typical governmental tyranny that most of the world has faced since the Sumerians built their first city.

In a thousand years, someone might emerge with the Federalist Papers and the Constitution and wonder about us and examine what went wrong.


91 posted on 03/16/2009 3:00:50 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: dangus
You make a lot of rather ponderous insinuiations, so I'll try and keep up as best I can.

Inevitable?

Yes. Inevitable in the book, and inevitable in real life. Socialism, Marxism, communism... all lead to the eventual collapse of the system. By collapse I mean the gross redistribution of wealth, the collapse of education, public works, healthcare and the free market economy (and with it the destruction of personal and corporate wealth and the resultant end of desire for economic achievement), and most importantly the collapse of personal liberty and all the privileges of a free society.

But what about people like Eddie?

What about Eddie? You're making the mistake of imparting a belief that everyone should have an equal outcome, irregardless of the fact that Rand's philosophy was exactly the opposite.

Galt and Taggart didn’t believe in God, and neither did Rand. So when they perceived they were losing, they abandoned hope and assured the utter destruction of everything they had created.

Galt, Reardon, and the like never percieved they were losing anything; they chose to no longer partake in an endless downward spiral not caused by themselves; moreover, that downward spiral was caused by people whose could never take care of themselves but demanded that the likes of Galt and Reardon take care of them. They had never lived as slaves, and never would. Are you trying to say that you must believe in God to overcome the downward spiral of a civilization?

In the end, they were LOSERS because they had no source of hope, in either God nor the inherent nature of man to desire freedom.

Are you kidding? The created their own society BASED SOLEY UPON THEIR NATURE TO LIVE AS FREE MEN. Their steadfast, unconquerable hope was in themselves and their inherent ability and desire to achieve.

Through Taggart and Galt, Rand expressed her belief that man was content being a useless serf to a socialistic totalitarian nanny-state. And because of that belief, Taggart and Galt surrendered in the face of that nanny-state.

Dude... read the book. It is precisely this type of nonsense that makes me question you. Great job leafing through the Cliff notes, but you know precious little of the story or of Objectivism. I wasn't trying to imply that you were parroting anyone; I was implying that you do not know of what you speak.

Contrast their behavior, say, to Frodo Baggins’.

Bwaaaaaahaha (gasp! gasp!) BWWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
92 posted on 03/16/2009 3:56:31 PM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU ARE A GUTLESS SOCIALIST LOSER WITH NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.)
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To: dangus
The result of Atlas Shrugging (or Going Galt, or however you want to put it) was that civilization collapsed and billions of people died.

Well, no. That didn't happen in the book. One of our objectives in the FReeper Book Club's study of this beast is to attempt to figure out exactly what she did expect to happen. I'm not ruling that prediction out, in fact I think it entirely possible, but it didn't happen within the confines of the novel.

One difficulty with the thing is that Atlas doesn't actually shrug within it, he only begins to. Rand gives us one hopeful image at the end, covered wagons, but it is entirely unclear how, precisely, she expects a new society to coalesce around the precepts of Galt. A lot of utopian fiction - I include Karl Marx - suffers from that difficulty. There is a finely planned and executed sequence of destruction and fall, and then poof! - magic. Voila! The State withers away. Abracadabra! Laissez faire capitalism spreads throughout the land. Maybe so, maybe no, but I haven't seen either one yet.

The pertinence of Atlas Shrugged to the moment is, at least for me, in the mechanism of that decay and fall. In that I think she's disturbingly accurate. Why that is so is another question we'll be taking up. Anyone who wishes to discuss these things, please join us. Publius is keeping the ping list.

93 posted on 03/16/2009 4:11:31 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: george76
"Classical Athens lasted about 170 years. This may be all that we can do as Americans before sinking into the mire of typical governmental tyranny that most of the world has faced since the Sumerians built their first city.

In a thousand years, someone might emerge with the Federalist Papers and the Constitution and wonder about us and examine what went wrong."

The thing that pisses me off the most is that:

  1. We were eloquently warned of the possibilities both at the founding and then, again, in 1964; and,

  2. I have children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren that are going to bear the pain of the yoke in their lifetime.
This is why I think that it is up to the elders to start something now to short-circuit this long inevitable slide into tyranny.

After all, it is the elders amongst us that bear the responsibility (through inaction of many sorts) for what has happened. Therefore, it is the elders who should pay the price to reestablish the Constitutional republic.

(It would also solve all the major problems associated with Social Security and Medicare.)

94 posted on 03/16/2009 5:03:19 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: george76; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...

Thanks geo.

A Tale of Two Novels: Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged vs James Joyce’s Ulysses
source cannot be posted, see link in post below | August 8, 1998 | Harry Binswanger
Posted on 03/15/2009 2:06:16 PM PDT by Lorianne
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2207150/posts


95 posted on 03/16/2009 6:17:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: geologist
ah! a voice of reason

Thank you ...

Yes, thank you my fine sir. We shall all hang together or hand separately. And Galt’s clutch does not exist. It never has, never will, and never could; except perhaps if Galt’s Clutch is a warm gun and freedom's greatest death wish. That is all.

96 posted on 03/16/2009 6:17:56 PM PDT by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: george76

We had Cabela’s ditch out in Indy also.
And that was after demanding (and receiving) incredible corporate welfare (aka free land and tax abatements) from the state and city (Greenwood).


97 posted on 03/16/2009 6:21:03 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: dixiechick2000

I’m going to make one for myself:

Going Galt
See You At the Beach


98 posted on 03/16/2009 6:38:03 PM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Requiescat In Pace)
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To: concerned about politics
I believe the tax slaves are finally figuring things out, and they're not happy about it.***

Yes but there still is this huge learning curve as to HOW to go about this and it always turns into socialism one way or the other. Years of public schooling have fully disabled any time of individualistic thought processes.

99 posted on 03/16/2009 7:17:12 PM PDT by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: george76

What is the breaking point? Where will the resistance form?***

I don’t know, but if We The People ever do figure that one out it’s sure going to be H-E-L-L for our current commie oligarchy.


100 posted on 03/16/2009 7:20:57 PM PDT by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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