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Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa
foxnews.com ^ | March 17, 2009 | staff

Posted on 03/17/2009 7:35:41 AM PDT by kellynla

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE —

Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday that the distribution of condoms is not the answer in the fight against AIDS in Africa.

Benedict has never before spoken explicitly on condom use although he has stressed that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

Some priests and nuns working with victims of the AIDS pandemic ravaging Africa question the church's opposition to condoms.

The pope also said that he intends to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn.

He said that while the church does not propose specific economic solutions, it can give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.

Describing the current crisis as the consequence of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures," the pope said, "It is here that the church can make a contribution."

Benedict's seven-day pilgrimage will take him to Cameroon and Angola.

Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic Church.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: africa; aids; condoms
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To: vivalaoink
To answer your question...

My spouse, nor I, would ever take any chance of giving
the other a horrible disease. We love one another too much.

When you love someone, you make sacrifices, and the sacrifice would be no love making.

You actually answered two questions in you reply, although
one was not asked.

“Yes, if I were to have sex with a person who has HIV/AIDS,
I would only do so wearing a condom.”

I really don't want to be insulting, there's no need for that in polite company. But I really have to think that you're not exactly all there are you...

101 posted on 03/17/2009 9:55:10 AM PDT by Semper Mark (Communism is Socialism with a gun to your head.)
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To: vivalaoink

“Safer” is not “safe.” Here’s a simple illustration: it is safer to be struck by a speeding Mini Cooper than to be struck by a speeding Peterbilt hauling steel trusses.


102 posted on 03/17/2009 9:56:44 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: vivalaoink

You qualified it to someone with HIV who is your spouse. Thus, the answer you posted (”yes”) is actually “no.”

Very slippery.


103 posted on 03/17/2009 9:57:38 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Petronski

So, let’s rename “safety equipment” like helmets, pads, etc to “safer equipment” since they don’t protect people from death or serious injury 100% of the time.


104 posted on 03/17/2009 9:58:41 AM PDT by vivalaoink
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To: vivalaoink
So, let’s rename “safety equipment”...

Go for it.

105 posted on 03/17/2009 9:59:54 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: vivalaoink
He wouldn't leave his wife, and not having sex to protect his life shouldn't be a problem for either of them.

You see, sex isn't all there is to a marriage. Sex is mainly for the purpose of making babies.

You've been taught that sex is some uncontrollable urge that you simply must have or else your dick will fall off or something.

That simply isn't true. You can live without it just fine, and if your wife has a terrible disease, then you'll have to, won't you.

Or would You be so weak and need to go out and have an affair, breaking your vows and committing a sin?

106 posted on 03/17/2009 10:04:26 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: vivalaoink; Petronski
You are missing your assumed proposition (P6) that African Catholics will not opt to abstain or be faithful any more than African pagans.

This proposition is false, thus your argument fails, in addition to the reasons given by Petronski.

107 posted on 03/17/2009 10:05:17 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: vivalaoink
...it has been *PROVEN* that the use of condoms decreases the likelihood of catching a STD across the board?

"...an STD..." generally? Or HIV specifically?

Was the study conducted or funded by someone with an ulterior motive?

108 posted on 03/17/2009 10:06:11 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Iscool
Like there are so many walmarts in africa for them to go get jobs at.

While you may think you are funny, You are anything but.

Obviously you haven't a clue what life is like in most parts of Africa, besides the washed stuff you see on your TV.

109 posted on 03/17/2009 10:07:10 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


110 posted on 03/17/2009 10:10:14 AM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Like there are so many walmarts in africa for them to go get jobs at.

I think he was trying to be darkly ironic, with a hip sense of utter trenchancy...like Jeaneane Garafalo or Michael Moore.

111 posted on 03/17/2009 10:10:18 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: kellynla
Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa

Of course. Condoms are enabling technology for promiscuity, which spreads disease.

112 posted on 03/17/2009 10:16:13 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Iscool

That’s the claim from one study. The article nevertheless points to lots of data which shows that it was, in fact, the abstinence and being faithful that was responsible for Uganda’s success.


113 posted on 03/17/2009 10:17:13 AM PDT by B Knotts (Worst economy since the Third Punic War)
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To: Iscool
Could be you're reality challanged...

Here is reality. If you only had sex with your spouse, and your spouse does likewise, your chance of contracting AIDS is about 0%.

Christians should teach that, not some garbage about putting a rubber on your johnson. Whatever that doctrine is, it's not Christianity.
114 posted on 03/17/2009 10:23:04 AM PDT by Antoninus (So now "change" is defined as "more of the same, but worse"?)
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To: MrB
Now, can you honestly say that following moral laws such as having sex only in the context of marriage as intended wouldn’t be “more effective” than giving out condoms and encouraging risky behavior?

The empirical evidence in Africa says yes. For several years, Uganda had much lower rates of HIV infection than most of its neighboring countries. The difference was that Uganda had a systematic program of discouraging risky sexual behaviors with a strong emphasis on abstinence as the BEST method of preventing the spread of HIV. The neighboring countries had aggressive condom distribution programs to promote "safer" sexual activity of using a product with a 15% failure rate at preventing pregnancy and not even measured in terms of the failure rate at preventing the spread of STD's. As health officials became more enlightened and decided to augment Uganda's HIV/AIDS prevention programs with the distribution of condoms, the rate of HIV infection started rising.

115 posted on 03/17/2009 10:24:27 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: Iscool
...every young teenage and pre-teen girl that if forced into sex will get AIDS...

You assume that all such predators have HIV/AIDS, but I'll set that aside to get to the real problems:

Do you think one willing to force a teen or pre-teen into sex is going to be conscientious about a condom?

What do you think is the condom failure rate in forced (probably violent) sex?

116 posted on 03/17/2009 10:39:39 AM PDT by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: workerbee

i think it was uganda. I seem to remember Rush talking about this country about 3 years ago when some report was released that showed this country was the only one in africa to have significantly reduced aids. Abstinence is the only guarantee against AIDS


117 posted on 03/17/2009 11:37:09 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: Nathan Zachary

I think I’ve heard of these “ocean” thingies...aren’t they what man makes drown the poor baby polar bears?


118 posted on 03/17/2009 2:57:03 PM PDT by FourPeas
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To: rangeryder

The point was that Africa isnt the only country having an issue with Aids -
Stop watching so much TV. It makes you grumpy and sarcastic.
:-)


119 posted on 03/17/2009 7:55:35 PM PDT by humantech ("No one wants to live to see such evil times. Its what you do with the time you are given")
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To: humblegunner

humblegunner needs to learn that condoms are porous; that means they have holes in them, and those holes are large enough for HIV to pass through.


120 posted on 03/17/2009 7:55:52 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Iscool

You’ve confirmed, yet again, that you are a moron.


121 posted on 03/17/2009 7:59:55 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
humblegunner needs to learn that condoms are porous

How nice of you to attempt to educate me.

Let me return the favor.

Please note the title of the thread, Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa

NOT "condoms fail to reduce" but that they "increase" AIDS in Africa.

Now, let's do an experiment.

Take 100 AIDS infected Africans and 100 AIDS-free Africans.
Without condoms, they all have sex in the jungle.
How many cases of AIDS got passed on? Let's say 90%.

Now, we get another 100 AIDS-free Africans and line them
up for the 100 AIDS infected Africans, but this time everyone has a condom.
Again, sex in the jungle.

NOW.. how many cases were passed on? MORE than before?

Surely not.

Therefore, how can it be said that condoms increase AIDS?

122 posted on 03/18/2009 4:28:35 AM PDT by humblegunner (Where my PIE at, fool?)
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To: humblegunner; A.A. Cunningham
Take 100 AIDS infected Africans and 100 AIDS-free Africans. Without condoms, they all have sex in the jungle. How many cases of AIDS got passed on? Let's say 90%.

Now, we get another 100 AIDS-free Africans and line them up for the 100 AIDS infected Africans, but this time everyone has a condom. Again, sex in the jungle.

. . .
Therefore, how can it be said that condoms increase AIDS?

In this very unrealistic, highly controlled situation, perhaps you are correct.

However, the phenomenon of highly available condoms allows the increase in AIDS and other STDs much in the way that widespread condoms, contraceptives, availability to abortion, etc. increase it over here: they do not deter promiscuity, and could be said to facilitate it by giving the illusion of "safe" sex. We do not see this taking place so much in the US in dealing with AIDS, but rather with HPV and Herpes (neither of which can be prevented with condoms).

When abstinence and being faithful to one's spouse are promoted, they change the behaviours of people, and thus decrease the spread of AIDS. Condoms do not change the behaviours of people, and in some cases reward unsafe behaviours (by "taking away the risk") thus they increase the spread of AIDS (which cannot be prevented with condoms either because of the porous nature of said condoms).

So, is your little experiment beside the point because it is unrealistic, or might you be suggesting that African peoples can't control their sexual impulses?

123 posted on 03/18/2009 5:58:35 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: GCC Catholic
might you be suggesting that African peoples can't control their sexual impulses?

Maybe thats it.


124 posted on 03/18/2009 6:41:31 AM PDT by humblegunner (Where my PIE at, fool?)
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To: vivalaoink
"I was using absurdity to point out that correlation does not equal causation."

Don't give me that psychology 101 b.s. On the contrary, sometimes correlation does equal causation. For example, as in how nearly all terrorists are muslims. Islam equals the cause of terror. It's just that we have too many self styled 'intellectuals', such as yourself, muddying the waters; in trying to look like deep thinkers they miss the obvious.

125 posted on 03/23/2009 7:59:27 AM PDT by rangeryder (If a man says something in the woods, is he still wrong?)
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To: rangeryder

You will not find it in Psychology 101, but you will find it in a Freshmen logic/critical thinking course


126 posted on 03/23/2009 9:57:24 AM PDT by vivalaoink
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To: rangeryder

Secondly, if you want to be a bit more correct in your reasoning shouldn’t it be something more along the lines of all terrorists are driven by ideology and religion (this account for non-muslim terrorists), thus ideology and religion is responsible for terrorism.

Even still, that ‘argument’ is missing several much needed premises in order to be valid...but it does a better job than your example.


127 posted on 03/23/2009 10:17:25 AM PDT by vivalaoink
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To: vivalaoink
"Secondly, if you want to be a bit more correct in your reasoning shouldn’t it be something more along the lines of all terrorists are driven by ideology and religion (this account for non-muslim terrorists), thus ideology and religion is responsible for terrorism."

Like all who seek to be right rather than accept the truth, you put forth a pretentious, straw man example to make your point. Islam isn't religion, it's a bloody cult that seeks to destroy true religions of peace, such as Christianity, Judiasm, Buddhism, .

As for the correlation between the radical increase of AIDS in Africa and the vast distribution of condoms to "control" its spread, it's an obvious one that doesn't require a whole lot of empirical evidence. As I and others have said, the belief that condoms will prevent AIDS will only serve to soothe peoples' concerns and increase their risk taking behavior, which in turn increases the incidences of AIDS. I believe there is an obvious correlation, especially when you consider that AIDS is a rising epidemic in Africa inspite of the widespread use of condoms. According to your logic AIDS should have decreased, or at least kept in check, because condoms allegedly work. But such is not the case at all, your logic is deathly flawed.

If you really want to prove your point, put on a condom and have sex with an AIDS ridden prostitute. Let us all know how it works out for you.

128 posted on 03/23/2009 12:34:57 PM PDT by rangeryder (If a man says something in the woods, is he still wrong?)
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To: rangeryder

How did I misrepresent your position? If I didn’t, I did not set up a strawman argument.

Secondly, like it or not, Islam is a religion. I’m not saying people don’t use it as a reason to justify acts of insanity and violence, though...just like they have done in the past with pretty much every other religion ever known to man, like Christianity and Judaism.

Historical facts are never pretty.

I don’t see how we got on this tangent in the first place. I was never defending Islam, nor do I still...I was just attempting to correct your rather faulty logic or lack thereof.

Finally, you make the claim that condom use is widespread in Africa. Do you have a link to an article that proves that, or should am I expected to accept your faulty premise on good faith?

The problem is the exact opposite. Condom use is not widespread, despite the billions of dollars being flushed down the toilet to hopefully promote them. These people’s problems are not with condoms, its their backwards beliefs and cultural ‘norms’ that present the biggest obstacle.

The pope is being of little help here, either, by erecting yet another wall of ignorance with these people by proclaiming condoms to be not only useless but dangerous.

Sorry, but that simply is not true. If condoms did not work, why do we not see the explosion of HIV/AIDS in industrialized, first-world, educated countries that choose to live as sexually immoral (minus the high prevalence of rape and genital mutilation) as their African counterparts?

The pope’s argument is akin to saying doctors and paramedics should not use latex gloves when dealing with patients patients because it lead them to involve themselves in more ‘risky behavior’.

It’s utter and complete nonsense.


129 posted on 03/23/2009 1:55:06 PM PDT by vivalaoink
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To: rangeryder

Oh yes, I failed to address your instructions for me to go have sex with an AIDS ridden prostitute.

Though I have never had the need or opportunity to have sex with a prostitute, I have had sex with multiple people. Do you think I gave them a blood test prior? No, I just chose to protect myself.


130 posted on 03/23/2009 2:04:14 PM PDT by vivalaoink
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