Prelude to the Civil War; Four states mark the 150th anniversary of John Brown’s raid

johnbrownraid.org ^ | March/April 2009 | Theresa Gawlas Medoff

[Graybeard58]

Nothing justified his terrorism.

[NavyCanDo]

Civil War post on Freerepublic always sparks some emotions and heated replies. 150 later and we are the only ones left to speak up for what our ancestors did on both sides of that war, and many will speak up for them very passionately. The anniversary 2011-2015 is going to be interesting.

[bushfamfan]

You could make that case for any war of any kind. Does it make it right if it is state sponsored? What about the founding of this very country? I believe Brown brought about an end to an institution that went on long enough and cost many lives and suffering.

[bushfamfan]

What about any person who goes to war and has to kill someone? Do not civilian deaths occur during every war?

[bushfamfan]

I’m curious what you would have thought if you found yourself in the position of a slave and in those times. It was time for the brutal injustice to end.

[Fiji Hill]

The movie Santa Fe Trail, starring Raymond Massey as John Brown and Ronald Reagan as George Armstrong Custer provides an exciting and dramatic portrayal of Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry.

[Arkinsaw]

You could make that case for any war of any kind. Does it make it right if it is state sponsored? What about the founding of this very country? I believe Brown brought about an end to an institution that went on long enough and cost many lives and suffering.

There is no valid comparison between how the founders of the country proceeded, and how John Brown proceeded.

There are a vast number of honorable people on the Union side of the Civil War worthy of honor. But Brown did not behave honorably and does not approach them.

[bushfamfan]

Yes, much more honorable to act on taxes than truly enslaving another human being and murdering, raping, beating them and separating their families, etc. etc. People died over independence over taxes and you say it wasn’t right for a movement within a country to work to abolish true slavery?? Just because something is state sanctioned does not make it right and the United States was wrong to allow slavery to continue for so long.

[Fiji Hill]

A Civil War post on Freerepublic always sparks some emotions and heated replies--150 years later--and we are the only ones left to speak up for what our ancestors did on both sides of that war, and many will speak up for them very passionately. The anniversary 2011-2015 is going to be interesting.

The smoke from the battlefield never clears.

[Arkinsaw]

I’m curious what you would have thought if you found yourself in the position of a slave and in those times. It was time for the brutal injustice to end.

I recently saw a news story where a vicious thug robbed a store and shot the storekeeper through the abdomen. The surgeons saving the victim's life discovered a cancerous tumor well on its way to killing the victim. They successfully removed it.

The thug deserves no praise for saving the victim's life in the long run.

[Arkinsaw]

Yes, much more honorable to act on taxes than truly enslaving another human being and murdering, raping, beating them and separating their families, etc. etc. People died over independence over taxes and you say it wasn’t right for a movement within a country to work to abolish true slavery?? Just because something is state sanctioned does not make it right and the United States was wrong to allow slavery to continue for so long.

The top three issues with your post:

1) Opposition to John Brown's terrorist methodology does not indicate a support for slavery. Stop acting like it automatically does...because to do so is not intellectually honest.
2) Show me where I said that "it wasn't right for a movement within a country to work to abolish slavery"? You can't because I didn't say it. Stop doing that, it is not intellectually honest.
3) You cannot justify evil actuins in response to other evils. There were many who did not resort to evil acts and who behaved honorably in the same quest to end slavery.

[wolfcreek]

150th anniversary coming up in 2011.

Any suggestions on how we should commemorate?

[Arkinsaw]

What about any person who goes to war and has to kill someone? Do not civilian deaths occur during every war?

John Brown was not a soldier. John Brown was not a legal representative of the people of the United States, the people of the north, or any government....he was not commissioned by anyone other than himself to wage war against either civilians or non-civilians. He was subject to no chain of command or law other than his own. His actions were in violation of the law in every jurisdiction in the United States.

There is no basis for your comparing of apples and oranges.

[bushfamfan]

Would you really argue that the United States was not acting as a thug with slavery? Dred Scott, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and an institution that was continuing on with much pain and suffering and a black mark on this nation as a beacon of freedom?

[neocon1984]

Bad people sometimes do things that lead to good results and vice versa.

A political solution may have been possible had John Brown not inflamed passions. Eventually slavery was going to end and the South’s economy would have to adapt. However, many in the South felt that they were under unjustified attack and decided to fight back. IMO, right principle, wrong application/set of circumstances.

[bushfamfan]

You do realize the American Revolution was a movement by a minority against their own country, don’t you? And over taxes which they considered ‘slavery’! I am not saying you supported slavery, but I will say with someone like you slavery and the suffering would have continued on for many more yrs. to come. And as for ‘evil actions’, like I say, the only way there ever is FREEDOM is because of BLOODSHED. It is a necessary evil and I believe Brown brought the issue to a much sooner conclusion with his actions.

[Arkinsaw]

Would you really argue that the United States was not acting as a thug with slavery? Dred Scott, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and an institution that was continuing on with much pain and suffering and a black mark on this nation as a beacon of freedom?

What I argue is is that regardless of how you answer those questions it makes zero difference in the judgment of John Brown's actions.

Did the US government act thugishly at Waco? Yes. Did that give Tim McVeigh the right to cruelly slay an innocent Bailey Almon and others? No.

No matter what the answer to your question it does not let John Brown off the hook.

There is no evil way to do good and no good way to do evil.

[bushfamfan]

Pointless that John Brown was not a ‘legal representative of the people of the United States’. It was legal for a slaveowner to rape, murder and brutalize their ‘property’ of enslaved men, women, and children and someone needed to step forward for freedom and a right of wrongs. Are you really going to argue that the United States was at a fine place in law at that point? It was gross injustice of our Declaration of Independence and ‘all Men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’. It was a gross injustice against freedom.

[Non-Sequitur]

Also known as ‘Psycho Loony Day’.

[Non-Sequitur]

Prelude perhaps but not the tipping point which would be the Morril Tariff which was a wholesale plunder.

Nice try. The Morrell Tariff wasn't passed until after the seven original confederate states had seceded. The tipping point was the election of Lincoln and what the South saw as the threat to their ability to expand slavery.