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Canadian court orders release of forum data (Free Dominion)
HotAir ^

Posted on 03/24/2009 7:01:42 AM PDT by Sir Gawain

Canadian court orders release of forum data

posted at 8:36 am on March 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

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A judge has ordered Free Dominion, the Canadian counterpart to Free Republic, to release the records of its anonymous forum posters in order to enable a lawsuit by Richard Warman. The release will mean the end of anonymity for all practical purposes in Canada, as well as an end to privacy for Free Dominion itself, which must also produce all its hosting agreements and ownership information as well. The judge offered this ironic justification for his order:

[33] In the case before the court, we are dealing with an anti-hate speech advocate and Defendants whose website is so controversial that it is blocked to employees of the Ontario Public Service.

That’s the threshold for privacy in Canada? Anyone styling themselves as an “anti-hate speech advocate” can raid the records of a web community he doesn’t like? Note also the circular reasoning here employed by Judge Stanley Kersham. If the government sees fit to block a website from its employees at some level, then it’s permissible to strip them of their rights to privacy and speech at any point.

As far as the “anti-hate-speech” advocate himself, Kersham seems to have missed this finding by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal from just two weeks ago. Richard Warman was not just a customer of the CHRC, he was one of its big offenders as well:

I do not see any acceptable reason for Mr. Warman to have participated on the Stormfront or Vanguard sites, since there appears to be ample easily obtained messages on these sites available without his involvement. Moreover, it is possible that his activity in this regard, could have precipitated further hate messages in response. His explanation for including other hate messages in his postings by mistake seems very weak to me.

Mr. Warman has, with the assistance of the Commission, instituted most of the s. 13 (1) complaints under the Act that have come before the Tribunal. He has been very successful in these cases and has garnered accolades for his work in this regard. The evidence in this case of his participation on Internet sites similar to the Northern Alliance site is both disappointing and disturbing. It diminishes his credibility. For this reason and because the activities of the Respondents have ceased for a lengthy period of time, I will not make any further Orders in this matter.

In essence, Kersham just allowed a participant on neo-Nazi discussion forums to raid Free Dominion’s business records.

Free Dominion wants to fight this ruling but is just about out of funds. Read their entire post to find out how you can help, and keep up with the story at Five Feet of Fury as well. If you haven’t already done so, order your copy of Ezra Levant’s Shakedown, which has more on the Human Rights Commission, its tribunal, and Richard Warman.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Canada; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: freedominion
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To: Publius6961

Apparently they do. Panama. I wonder if Panama government even requires servers there to retain such records. It may not matter what the Canadian courts order Free dominion to do. The info might not even be available if they operate like other security conscious anonymous servers, they don’t keep those records period.

Acording to post #33, they probably don’t. Free Dominion should save themselves some money and check with their host to see if the do or not.


51 posted on 03/24/2009 10:35:20 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Again, I don’t know these folks, but here is more:

____________________________________

http://www.escapeartist.com/Offshore_Webhosting/Internet_Privacy.html

The one of a kind e-commerce bill was signed into law in August 2001 by Panama’s President Mireya Moscoso has created internet privacy in Panama. Believed to be the first of its kind to be implemented in Central America and the Caribbean, the law has, as was expected, begun to move Panama’s e-commerce industry into the one to beat for offshore web hosting and for IT connectivity.

According to legal authorities in Panama, the law is based on the guidelines of the UNCITRAL Model Law on E-Commerce and awards electronic documents and signatures the same validity as written documents. This is especially important as Panama has strict banking and corporate laws designed to protect the privacy of investors. The implication is that Panama now has the best protected internet eCommerce legislation in the world.

The law has received a warm welcome from the Panamanian business community and customers alike because the law’s provisions did away with the one key obstacle to e-commerce transactions in the country, i.e. the requirement for written acceptance by users of terms and conditions under traditional Civil Law.

Under the law, the Directorate of Electronic Commerce of the Ministry of Commerce has been granted the authority to maintain an optional register of certification authorities. The government hopes that the legislation will attract web hosting, call-centre and data centre companies to the country as they can also take advantage of Panama’s fully dollarized economy, lack of exchange restrictions and preferential taxation regime for information technology companies, Panama also is the hub where the Maya 1, Panamerican, Global Crossing and Arcos 1 underwater cables meet -


52 posted on 03/24/2009 10:48:11 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Nathan Zachary

P.S.

When Richard Warman loses his case, and he will, Free Dominion needs to sue him for a zillion dollars.


53 posted on 03/24/2009 11:05:11 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Sir Gawain

I’m lucky I don’t own a car.


54 posted on 03/24/2009 11:05:46 AM PDT by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: TexasRepublic

I don’t think they need to subpoena Jim Rob. They probably already know.


55 posted on 03/24/2009 11:11:12 AM PDT by wastedyears (April 21st, 2009 - International Iron Maiden Day)
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To: nitzy

It’s not the Canadian government, it’s those weasel liberal left over Judges that were appointed for life by Creepien!! CO


56 posted on 03/24/2009 11:20:39 AM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: All

Connie and Mark sold Free Dominion, when they moved the servers to Panama. They are no longer the owners. To the best of my knowledge the owners are Liberty News Service, also sited in Panama.


57 posted on 03/24/2009 12:57:03 PM PDT by NorthernRight (Liberalism is a mental disorder - Socialism is a mental illness!)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
When Richard Warman loses his case, and he will, Free Dominion needs to sue him for a zillion dollars.

Don't worry about that; they will.

58 posted on 03/24/2009 12:59:44 PM PDT by NorthernRight (Liberalism is a mental disorder - Socialism is a mental illness!)
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To: Sir Gawain

bump


59 posted on 03/24/2009 2:07:29 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: All

Free Dominion was sold to Liberty News Service in Panama, and the server resides in Panama. Also, no IP addresses or server logs are kept (and they haven’t been for well over a year).

The problem is that, because we are Canadian citizens, we were required under the law to save the IP addresses and email addresses of the posters in question once we were served with the lawsuit (which was before the sale of the site).

Although that information has been retained, the IP addresses are so old they will not likely produce any useful information, and who uses a real email address in a forum?

But, we are fighting this on principle. Although Liberty News Service is very careful with user information, most Canadian sites are not. And, this ruling means that anyone can find out anything about any forum poster by merely filing a statement of claim against the website owner. This is a very, very dangerous precedent.


60 posted on 03/24/2009 2:17:48 PM PDT by conniew
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To: All
I posted this on FD, but I think it is an important point, so I'm posting it here, too.

I read some lefties opining that we should have lost this motion because people have no right to defame someone anonymously.

I think it is important to clarify our position here.

It has never been our position that people should be able to break the law anonymously (including defamation). Our argument is that "outing" a person online is a drastic thing to do (especially when our opponents like to destroy them after they find out who they are), and it should not be routinely done just because someone files a statement of claim.

We belive that a prima facie case should have to be established before a possibly innocent person's privacy is irrevocably compromised.

We thought this was entirely reasonable. Unfortunately, the judge did not agree.

61 posted on 03/24/2009 2:33:16 PM PDT by conniew
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To: devolve

Nice transparancy look!


62 posted on 03/24/2009 2:44:23 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: conniew

hello and sorry to read about this ruling, but am not quite up to speed on all the facts

queens bench ruling against you based solely on a statement of claim seems like a reach, of course

but i’d like to know what was so controversial that someone (allegedly posted) on freedominion that someone sued you as sysops/owners ? is there a libel issue ? or is this one of those fasciist tribunal things? clearly coqb found something compelling, yes ? liberal judges suck but its canada, after all. like all bureaucracies everywhere they love to waste our time justifying their existence and protecting their paycheques, right ?

not trying to play devils advocate or anything but not sure what you are fighting for ? you guarantee your site users anonymity on the internet ?

i’d be willing to fight to the death to defend another’s rights to free speech, but thats the price of freedom. and that person would have to be willing to stand up and own their words.

to defend someone’s ‘right’ to anonymous freedom of speech is something else entirely. i’m not really sure how i feel about that...can someone more enlightened than i am explain to me why this is bad ?


63 posted on 03/24/2009 2:46:13 PM PDT by malamute
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To: conniew

ah sorry your latest response cleared some things up for me, thanks


64 posted on 03/24/2009 2:47:30 PM PDT by malamute
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To: potlatch

.

Thanks potlatch -

A “blend” composite at I-M


65 posted on 03/24/2009 2:56:55 PM PDT by devolve (-- "... my Muslim faith....." ABC-TV with Steffi --)
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To: devolve

Thanks for telling, I wondered how you got that effect.


66 posted on 03/24/2009 3:00:27 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: potlatch

.

You may recall the Eagle/Eagle .jpg I did back a while

Same technique used


67 posted on 03/24/2009 3:12:46 PM PDT by devolve (-- "... my Muslim faith....." ABC-TV with Steffi --)
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To: devolve

For some reason I’m not recalling that one.


68 posted on 03/24/2009 3:15:24 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: PapaBear3625

Exactly


69 posted on 03/24/2009 3:39:51 PM PDT by dennisw (0bomo the subprime president)
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Comment #70 Removed by Moderator

To: potlatch

.

A Bald Eagle and a fighter jet composite blend

The colors and darkness need to be compatible for it to work right


71 posted on 03/24/2009 3:47:51 PM PDT by devolve (-- "... my Muslim faith....." ABC-TV with Steffi --)
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Comment #72 Removed by Moderator

To: devolve

I’ll come across it sometime again.


73 posted on 03/24/2009 3:50:30 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: Snowyman

Thanks Snowyman. That is EXACTLY what I said. It paints a very perverted picture of our current government. PO’s me actually.!! CO


74 posted on 03/24/2009 4:29:11 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: null and void

Not true Nully. It’s the left over judicial liberal slime from the 13 years of judicial appointments that Creepien made. Harper is DELIBERATELY not filling judicial vacancies at this time. He needs a majority and then watch out. May all these destructive fools on the “bench” be removed “somehow”. CO


75 posted on 03/24/2009 4:32:10 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: conniew

Connie, u got a Trudeau/Creepien judge. Simple as that. And not in reference to your post but anothers, I too, want to know how they knew WHO it was? I have posted many times that I know Stephen Harper thru a mutal GOOD friend. I intend to be meeting with my friend very soon to find out what is happening. CO


76 posted on 03/24/2009 4:39:12 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what an antibiotic is to an infection - Healing!!!!)
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To: PapaBear3625
The physical servers might be in Panama, but as long as personnel remain in Canada they can be grabbed and ordered to hand over info from wherever it happens to be stored. For FreeDominion to be secure, then they would need to not have any operations staff or owners be within reach of Canadian authorities.

Free Dominion was sold to a Panamanian corporation at the time the servers were moved to Panama. There are no known staff of this Panamanian corporation and it is unknown (I believe) who the owners are. Somethings have to be well thought out in advance of possible problems that may arise.

77 posted on 03/24/2009 5:11:08 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: TexasRepublic
I wonder if the owner of the FR website would turn over membership records to the US government on demand?

No, he wouldn't.
By the way, welcome to Free Republic.

78 posted on 03/24/2009 5:15:25 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: fanfan
The Free Dominion server is in Panama.

Damn nasty power spikes down in that power grid can wipe hard drives out in seconds ya know?

79 posted on 03/24/2009 5:21:49 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: headstamp 2
They should fold up shop, destroy the records and move the hosting to the US.

What makes you think the U.S. is a safe harbor?

80 posted on 03/24/2009 7:27:25 PM PDT by elkfersupper (Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: malamute
to defend someone’s ‘right’ to anonymous freedom of speech is something else entirely. i’m not really sure how i feel about that...

To be succinct:

Rich, powerful people will be the only ones with "free speech".

Open your peasant yap - you'll have an expensive lawsuit shoved down it. Or the ones with the ultimate blank checkbook will come after you - the government.

People don't seem to understand that the Founders didn't have or envision a government with an unlimited budget for "rules enforcement".

We've inherited the traditional respect for government operations, but often fail to examine what's really going on.

Sometimes, government operatives don't do what's "right". That's when the blank checkbook becomes a problem.

81 posted on 03/24/2009 8:45:49 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Obama: The Kenyan Anthony Fremont)
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To: Sir Gawain

Just post using TOR.
Takes just a few minutes to install the Vidalia package and the TOR button for the browser. Traffic is encrypted from your browser through many servers until the last hop...which for me right now is a PC in Europe.
I rarely use it except to browse democraticunderground
and to post images on tinypic.

My IP right now is 80.77.80.23

Whois lookup lists this for my IP

OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
OrgID: RIPE
Address: P.O. Box 10096
City: Amsterdam
StateProv:
PostalCode: 1001EB
Country: NL

ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net:43

NetRange: 80.0.0.0 - 80.255.255.255
CIDR: 80.0.0.0/8
NetName: 80-RIPE
NetHandle: NET-80-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC
NameServer: NS-PRI.RIPE.NET
NameServer: NS3.NIC.FR
NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE
NameServer: NS-EXT.ISC.ORG
NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET
NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET
NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET
Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in
Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in
Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois
RegDate:
Updated: 2005-07-27

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2009-03-24 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN’s WHOIS database.
% This is the RIPE Whois query server #1.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% Rights restricted by copyright.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/copyright.html

% Note: This output has been filtered.
% To receive output for a database update, use the “-B” flag.

% Information related to ‘80.77.80.0 - 80.77.80.255’

inetnum: 80.77.80.0 - 80.77.80.255
netname: UAONLINE-1
descr: ipipe network
country: GB
admin-c: MS9776-ripe
tech-c: VK1045-ripe
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: uaonline
mnt-domains: uaonline
source: RIPE # Filtered

person: Soldatov Maxim
address: Marylebone high street 78
address: W1U 5AP London
phone: +380 50 4985406
e-mail: makc@ipipe.net
org: ORG-RIBC1-RIPE
nic-hdl: MS9776-ripe
mnt-by: uaonline
source: RIPE # Filtered

person: Vladimir Klenov
address: London, United Kingdom
phone: +380 50 4985406
e-mail: maple@ipipe.net
nic-hdl: VK1045-ripe
mnt-by: uaonline
source: RIPE # Filtered


82 posted on 03/25/2009 1:41:11 PM PDT by Bobalu (McCain has been proven to be the rino flop I always thought he was.)
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To: All

bump


83 posted on 03/26/2009 11:08:39 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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