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No: California does not need any more stoners
San Diego Union - Tribune ^ | 3/26/09 | Jim Gogek

Posted on 03/26/2009 10:13:28 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

The romance with weed is never-ending for California marijuana devotees. Now, they claim their beloved drug can save the state by solving its unrelenting budget nightmare.

State legislation is afoot to legalize and tax marijuana to backfill the state budget. But, like the grandiose daydreams of a stoner, the reality of this plan would be far different from its vision. I won't go all “Reefer Madness” on you or claim that hemp T-shirts are a slippery slope to damnation. The problem with marijuana legalization is simpler and worse.

California cannot afford more stoned people, especially stoned young people. We need a lot fewer stoned people.

Prevention experts understand the problem with legalization: The greater the access to an intoxicant, the more abuse there will be of that intoxicant. Alcohol isn't the most dangerous drug in the world because it's worse than heroin or cocaine. It's the most dangerous drug because it's so easily accessible. You can get large quantities of it anywhere, and cheaply, too. Underage drinking is a big problem because kids can get alcohol so easily.

Legal marijuana would mean more access to marijuana. The number of marijuana users would spike, including teens.

Problems related to marijuana use would spike. Marijuana lobbyists argue that if a dangerous drug such as alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be, too. I've never understood that. With all the problems we have with alcohol, why would we want to legalize another intoxicant?

Right now, there are 127 million alcohol users and 14 million marijuana users in this country – because one is legal and the other isn't. But, most alcohol users don't get intoxicated. About one-fifth of alcohol users binge drink or regularly drink heavily.

The serious problems from alcohol occur when people get intoxicated. With marijuana, you get intoxicated every time you use it. That's the whole point. Marijuana intoxication and alcohol intoxication may be different, but both are bad for society.

Marijuana intoxication means cognitive impairment, grandiosity, short-term memory loss, difficulty in carrying out complex mental processes and impaired judgment. It severely hurts your ability to perform at school and work. It saps initiative and drive. It increases confusion. In other words, it makes you stupid.

An increase in stoners among California's young people and work force would be very bad for the state. Right now, we're in a recession in which people without college degrees are losing jobs twice as fast as people with college degrees. Our future economy will be based on innovation, education and highly skilled labor.

But we're already not producing enough college graduates for our future work-force needs. With many more stoned teens and young people, the problems of an unskilled, uneducated and unmotivated work force will get worse.

Stoned people can't learn or work very well. Marijuana is the loser drug: That's the big problem with it.

What about the idea that California can balance its budget by legalizing marijuana and taxing the heck out of it? You haven't been paying attention to special-interest politics if you believe that.

Moneyed special interests run policy in this state. Look what happened when California criminal justice policies made prison guards one of the most powerful lobbies in the state. The union quickly began dictating policy in its own interest.

The alcohol industry is so powerful in California that beer taxes haven't increased in nearly 20 years; the last time they were raised was by a minuscule amount and the industry almost killed that. A wealthy marijuana industry will soon co-opt policy-makers and dictate how much tax we charge, where we sell the product and who gets to buy it. Why would a marijuana industry be different from any other special interest?

Personally, I don't think the marijuana lobby believes its own arguments. When I talk to legalization proponents, it usually boils down to their angry demand that people should be left alone to get stoned if they want to. That libertarian sentiment shows a complete disregard for the public good. If legalizers can't understand that, elected policy-makers certainly should.

The disingenuousness of the marijuana lobby becomes clear on the subject of medical marijuana. For marijuana lobbyists to push both recreational marijuana and medicinal marijuana at the same time is duplicitous. It's nakedly obvious where their real desires lie.

Recreational drug use and medical drug use have nothing in common. If pharmaceutical lobbyists pushed recreational and medical use of the same drug, they'd get hauled before Congress and slammed by state attorneys. But the marijuana lobby sees nothing wrong with its tactics.

How about a little more candor from marijuana romantics? Like the panhandler standing on a street corner with a sign that says, “Why lie? I just want a beer.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: california; stoners
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1 posted on 03/26/2009 10:13:28 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

Goodness. The San Diego Tribune makes sense from one end of the article to the other.


2 posted on 03/26/2009 10:16:06 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

The SD U-T has one of the few editorial boards in the state that have a clue occasionally.


3 posted on 03/26/2009 10:18:41 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: Cicero

I really don’t understand how they would enforce tax collection on marijuana if it was legalized. It is so cheap to grow and there is an existing tax-free distribution system. Just how would the state tap into that?


4 posted on 03/26/2009 10:19:38 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: NormsRevenge

5 posted on 03/26/2009 10:20:46 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (True nobility is exempt from fear - Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: NormsRevenge

I’d be for legalizing pot if everyone who did something under its influence had the same thing done to them three-times over in return.

If you smoke and drive and run into something, you get three times the damage done to your stuff. If you maim someone, you lose three times the functionality. If you kill someone, well, you die.


6 posted on 03/26/2009 10:21:22 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Cancel liberal newspaper, magazine & cable TV subscriptions (Free TV-dtv.gov). Stop funding the MSM.)
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To: NormsRevenge

How is it that Fornicalia can clamp down on Winstons but not on Mad Dog 20/20?


7 posted on 03/26/2009 10:21:35 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: NormsRevenge

As we all know - no one who smokes weed can be productive or successful! This must be left up to the state.


8 posted on 03/26/2009 10:22:04 AM PDT by The Worthless Miracle (I will not gird my loins for Joe Biden.)
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To: Oldexpat
I really don’t understand how they would enforce tax collection on marijuana if it was legalized. It is so cheap to grow and there is an existing tax-free distribution system. Just how would the state tap into that?

Where there's a will, there's a way, be sure of it.

9 posted on 03/26/2009 10:22:06 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (True nobility is exempt from fear - Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: NormsRevenge

Bull shite


10 posted on 03/26/2009 10:22:48 AM PDT by Darwin Fish (God invented evolution. Man invented religeon.)
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To: NormsRevenge

I’ve never used drugs however I’m sure there are many successful people who smoke marijuana. The fact is that most drug users are not high-achievers and quite often they are on some kind of public assistance. Walking around stoned all day simply isn’t going to propel anyone through life unless they are a member of the Grateful Dead or Phish.


11 posted on 03/26/2009 10:22:48 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: NormsRevenge
Marijuana intoxication means cognitive impairment, grandiosity, short-term memory loss, difficulty in carrying out complex mental processes and impaired judgment. It severely hurts your ability to perform at school and work. It saps initiative and drive. It increases confusion.

Did anybody else read this and immediately think O'bama?

12 posted on 03/26/2009 10:24:32 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Oldexpat
Just how would the state tap into that?

Just like they do with booze now. Make it illegal to sell without gov't stamp. For over 200 years the feds and their state counterparts have done a (mostly) effective job at stopping moonshiners.

Last week in Tennessee a moonshiner killed himself rather than go to prison.

13 posted on 03/26/2009 10:27:53 AM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: NormsRevenge

Ah yes, here come the Drug Warriors (Armchair Brigade).


14 posted on 03/26/2009 10:28:22 AM PDT by Seruzawa (Obamalama lied, the republic died.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Getting marijuana is now easy enough that almost anybody who sets his will to it can score.

Where this marijuana comes from is a different bothersome question. It used to be clandestine local growers, who varied in their viciousness. Now Mexican thugs have pumped the country full of cheap and strong marijuana, and we see someone kidnapped daily in Phoenix because of it. (That poor person should move to Maine. Bada-bing.)

Like the failed alcohol prohibition, it seems to have become a question of not whether, but how, people will get their pot.


15 posted on 03/26/2009 10:29:06 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: Cicero
Marijuana lobbyists argue that if a dangerous drug such as alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be, too. I've never understood that. With all the problems we have with alcohol, why would we want to legalize another intoxicant?

Because the problems from alcohol are worse, the auther admits, so to should we go back to alcohol prohibition?

16 posted on 03/26/2009 10:29:19 AM PDT by IDFbunny
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To: MikeWUSAF

>I’m sure there are many successful people who smoke marijuana.

sure there are.


17 posted on 03/26/2009 10:33:02 AM PDT by bill1952 (Power is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: IDFbunny
the auther admits, so to should we go back to alcohol prohibition?

You sound stoned.

18 posted on 03/26/2009 10:34:08 AM PDT by bill1952 (Power is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: bill1952

Everybody must get stoned!


19 posted on 03/26/2009 10:34:59 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: bill1952

(Just kidding)


20 posted on 03/26/2009 10:35:20 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: MikeWUSAF
The fact is that most drug users are not high-achievers and quite often they are on some kind of public assistance. Walking around stoned all day simply isn’t going to propel anyone through life unless they are a member of the Grateful Dead or Phish.

The problem is that the law doesn't differentiate between those who use occasionally and those who abuse (and leaves aside the whole question of whether drug abuse by itself is a public health issue or a law enforcement issue).

The laws regarding alcohol do make such a differentiation. If you are drunk in public (or even just possessing alcohol in public), most locales can arrest you. If you drive while impaired, if you furnish it to minors, both things that are arrestable.

But the notion that teh state should be passing legislation, or not, based on making us all the best we can be is creepy at its core, especially considering who's in power currently.

21 posted on 03/26/2009 10:35:51 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Wow, thats some old dylan, right?


22 posted on 03/26/2009 10:36:12 AM PDT by bill1952 (Power is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: NormsRevenge

I don’t want to have to deal or try to converse with someone that is somewhere off in space.


23 posted on 03/26/2009 10:37:30 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: IDFbunny
Should we go back to alcohol prohibition?

Might not be a bad idea.


24 posted on 03/26/2009 10:39:34 AM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: NormsRevenge
But, most alcohol users don't get intoxicated.

I am not going to comment on the merits of the argument, but the statement above seems dubious at best.

25 posted on 03/26/2009 10:39:55 AM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Just curious, would you be okay with legalizing other drugs?


26 posted on 03/26/2009 10:40:09 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: MikeWUSAF

Give the issue back to the doctors, where it belongs.


27 posted on 03/26/2009 10:42:07 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Look at all the statists on freerepublic.


28 posted on 03/26/2009 10:42:13 AM PDT by Nephi (Like the failed promise of Fascism, masquerading as Capitalism? You're gonna love Marxism.)
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To: Cicero

The UT is actually a pretty good paper.


29 posted on 03/26/2009 10:44:02 AM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Be prepared for tough times. FReepmail me to learn about our survival thread!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Those “youthful” victims don’t look so youthful!


30 posted on 03/26/2009 10:44:45 AM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Be prepared for tough times. FReepmail me to learn about our survival thread!)
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To: Martin Tell

Ah, were this the worst evil on American streets. (Where are the bobbies in this picture dragging the publick sousers to the gaol?)


31 posted on 03/26/2009 10:44:51 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: NormsRevenge
"Marijuana intoxication means cognitive impairment, grandiosity, short-term memory loss, difficulty in carrying out complex mental processes and impaired judgment. It severely hurts your ability to perform at school and work. It saps initiative and drive. It increases confusion."

Sounds like any democrat to me. What's the diff?

32 posted on 03/26/2009 10:45:42 AM PDT by telebob
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To: NormsRevenge

They are currently using the drug war to revoke the Second Amendment.


33 posted on 03/26/2009 10:46:17 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’m married to one and her opinion along with her colleagues is that given the availability of a plethora of other pharmaceutical drugs; marijuana isn’t necessary.


34 posted on 03/26/2009 10:50:31 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: ConservativeMind

Uh.. what’s wrong with the laws on the books for DUI? It’s already illegal to drive under the influence of alcohol, marijuana, perscription drugs, etc.


35 posted on 03/26/2009 10:51:22 AM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: MikeWUSAF
Just curious, would you be okay with legalizing other drugs?

Honestly, I am quite ambivalent about that.

Philosophically, I think, for the Federal Government at least, the prohibition of drugs is an inadvisable expansion of government power. The true efficacy of the WOD and the negative influences it has had on the practice of law enforcement are serious questions that should be addressed.

That being said, it would be disingenuous not to acknowledge that harder drugs do present greater possibility for abuse and that they DO contribute to great human misery through their abuse.

I'm not sure the numbers of people who do cocaine, meth, heroin, etc will change by more than a few percentage points if they were legalized, but I don't know that I would want to make that bet.

What I do believe pretty strongly is that marijuana, while most certainly not harmless, is relatively benign as far as intoxicants go. In an era of shrinking resources, I would be happier if government focused it resources on the drugs that are people are misusing to far more deleterious effect.

I would also like to see most of the silly hyperbole removed from this debate.

36 posted on 03/26/2009 10:53:14 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
I would also like to see most of the silly hyperbole removed from this debate.

Can't have that.

37 posted on 03/26/2009 10:54:27 AM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: NormsRevenge
You can't tax a legal product that is as easy to grow as a tomato plant.

The Liberal-terrorists need to give up on the lie that it will generate billions in taxes. It wont.

38 posted on 03/26/2009 10:54:42 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Excellent reply and well thought-out.

Not saying that I agree with everything but it is nice to have an intelligent conversation with a fellow Freeper.

BTW - I love the picture of the shooting Jesus! :)

Cheers,

Mike


39 posted on 03/26/2009 10:56:52 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: IDFbunny

Prohibition was more successful than we like to think. It did cut the level of drunkedness and —mtw—really reduced drug use. THAT didn’t come back until the ‘50s because of the stigma. Paradoxically drinking madea comeback because the gansterism made is respectable again among the middle-classes who had caused prohibition in the firstplace. Let is not forget that prohibition was a PROGRESSIVE reform.


40 posted on 03/26/2009 10:58:14 AM PDT by RobbyS (ECCE homo)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Why wasn’t marijuana even considered banworthy prior to the 20th century. For that matter, prior to the end of alcohol prohibition.


41 posted on 03/26/2009 10:58:57 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: Beagle8U
You can't tax a legal product that is as easy to grow as a tomato plant.

You can't ban it, either, apparently.
42 posted on 03/26/2009 10:59:22 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Trailerpark Badass; All

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php


43 posted on 03/26/2009 11:00:05 AM PDT by Charlespg
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To: NormsRevenge

I would rather put up with some stoners on the streets, rather than have our drug demand funding the transformation of Mexico into a narco-state.

As other people have pointed out, even with drugs being legal, you can penalize certain behaviors, such as drugging and driving, with the severity of the penalties increasing with the harder or more exotic drugs (heroin, LSD, etc.).

As for druggies being on public assistance, that’s a good argument for ENDING public assistance. They can keep their minds clear and work like the rest of us, or they can get stoned and sit in the gutter on THEIR dime, not OURS.


44 posted on 03/26/2009 11:02:10 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Barack Obama: in your guts, you know he's nuts!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Since Hogarth's print "Gin Lane" and the companion "Beer Street" date from the 18th Century, there were no Bobbies or Peelers (both terms deriving from Robert Peel's efforts to put police on London's streets in the 1830s) around.

Hogarth's prints (actually political cartoons) are relevant to this discussion. Hogarth contrasted the virtues of a traditional "drug" (beer) with a new, dangerous, and foreign one (gin).

The British government proposed to ameliorate the pernicious effects of cheap gin on the lower classes (and incidentally raise some cash) by taxing the stuff.

Hogarth approved of the proposal.

45 posted on 03/26/2009 11:03:56 AM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: mysterio
You can ban it and drive up the price. You can't keep it off the market for those with the money and those that don't mind being fired/arrested for using it.
46 posted on 03/26/2009 11:03:56 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: RobbyS

It also gave Bonnie and Clyde another street-battle thing to get involved in (though bank robbing was their main affair). Amazing how little bathtub beer was served in speakeasies and blind tigers. It was whiskey, and the battles over it were bloody.


47 posted on 03/26/2009 11:04:01 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: Smogger

It’s illegal, but not considered a pre-meditated crime.

Besides, if we are to welcome more self-made brain-dead people on our roads, I want to have a solid torture penalty added, too.

I have no problems with people doing any drug. I have problems when people who do drugs hurt others “while under the influence.” I believe “under the influence” crimes should be considered pre-planned.


48 posted on 03/26/2009 11:05:14 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Cancel liberal newspaper, magazine & cable TV subscriptions (Free TV-dtv.gov). Stop funding the MSM.)
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To: All

BTW: If you don’t live in California you may not realize that marijuana is already “decriminalized” in California. Posession of less than one ounce (28.4 grams) will result in a misdameanor ticket, the outcome of which will generally be a fine. You will not be arrested. Also remember that in California an attorney can handle misdameanor matters, and you need not appear as a defendant.

So basically, the situation, as it exists now, is that many police are not at all intersted in small amounts of marijuana. You will often hear tales of police simply confiscating the drugs, and/or directing the person caught to destroy them in front of the officers, since actually writing the misdameanor ticket will require additional paperwork.


49 posted on 03/26/2009 11:09:27 AM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: Martin Tell

What’s the rectangular confetti like stuff in the picture (for example, falling off the top of one of the background buildings).


50 posted on 03/26/2009 11:10:48 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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