Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican

Times Online ^ | 04/05/2009 | Richard Owen

[BuckeyeTexan]

Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said today in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

[Richard Kimball]

Ping to Swordmaker. IIRC, you are a student of the shroud?

[BuckeyeTexan]

Ping

[tubebender]

Bump...

[Always Right]

of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

[MS.BEHAVIN]

Knights Templar PING!

[Kansas58]

I do believe that a “Papal Apology” is in order.

The King of France trumped up charges against the Knights Templar, to get out of his debts.

That some “sins” were discovered among the Knights? Really? Who would NOT “admit” to sinful behavior during torture?

The Pope was NOT in charge of arresting the Templar Knights, and the Pope, at the time, did not find that the Knights were guilty of heresy.

Still, they way they were treated was just wrong, and the Church, at the time, should have done more.

“Friday the 13th” is the day the Templars were first arrested, by the King of France.

[Star Traveler]

You said — of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

—

Here’s what one paragraph said in the article...

---

Radiocarbon dating tests on the Turin Shroud in 1988 indicated that it was a medieval fake. However this had been challenged on the grounds that the dated sample was taken from an area of the shroud mended after a fire in the Middle Ages and not a part of the original cloth.

---

I’ve seen that theory presented elsewhere, too...

[CapnJack]

It was my understanding that the Knights Templar were the keepers of the Holy Grail.

[Dr. Ursus]

Good info!

[patton]

Demolet does it again.

[Delta 21]

ping

[BroJoeK]

Funny, he doesn't look Jewish.

[Kansas58]

Think of the King of France as: ACORN or Obama

Think of the Templars as: Banks

[Ditter]

Myself having a packrat mentality, I can't imagine anyone throwing away or deliberately destroying the Shroud. But there are plenty of non believers who would do it.

[patton]

Beat ya. ;)

[nufsed]

Where was the shroud from 1-1204?

[Delta 21]

Im way slow on the draw. :(

[Dr. Ursus]

I really hope the person doing the census at my door doesn’t
pick RED out of the closet that day!

[fatima]

Wonder where that is.

[aruanan]

Funny, he doesn't look Jewish.

Funny, he's got the marks of a phylactery on his forehead. That looks distinctly Jewish.

[aruanan]

Where was the shroud from 1-1204?

You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church?

[nufsed]

So in 33 the shroud was transported to Constantinople?

Source?

[zot]

Ping

[mountainlion]

Think of the Templars as: Bank

Think that the king will kill hundreds of bankers?

[patton]

Is that the little prayer box?

[BuckeyeTexan]

Constantinople? I really don’t know much about the shroud.

[CapnJack]

Probably in the same place as the ...
Ark of the Covenant.

You know, that large gov’t warehouse in the desert west.

[aruanan]

So in 33 the shroud was transported to Constantinople? Source?

You're overlooking the obvious. If the shroud dates from the first century, it wasn't anywhere before ~33AD

[airedale]

It’s supposed to be in Axum Ethiopia if you believe the Ethiopian Orthodox Church or Graham Hancock (Sign and the Seal). Hancock’s book is a good read and makes a pretty good case.

[nufsed]

You’re misreading AND avoiding the question.

[Kansas58]

He might as well kill the bankers, he whipped up angry mobs against AIG, even though OBAMA signed a law protecting the contractual bonuses!
Then, Obama told the bankers, “I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks” -—
Then, Obama looks the other way when his Dem buddies at Freddie and Fannie get THEIR bonuses!

History repeats itself!

Also, the Templars were the bankers AND the feudal defenders of Christianity against Islam.

And the French King “went for the gold” and killed off the Templars.

Just like Obama is cutting our military to “spread the wealth around”.

[Desdemona]

Actually, the strongest tradition for the location of the Ark of the Covenant is a town in Ethiopia along the Nile called Oxham (I'm not sure how it's spelled). It hasn't been seen in almost 2,000 years, but that's the last place it was seen and the place that claims it. The Grail supposedly was kept under the temple in Jerusalem and then disappeared at some point in the middle ages. There are a number of rumors. What's true and what's not...God knows.

[Swordmaker]

Shroud of Turin WAS held by the Knights Templar after the Fourth Crusade according to documentation found in the Vatican Archives ... PING!

If you want on or off the Shroud of Turin Ping List, Freepmail me.

[lilylangtree]

Discovery Channel or History Channel did a special a few years back on the Shroud of Turin. Apparently, for political reasons and fear of power of the Knights Templar brought their downfall by the King & the Pope. And yes, the carbon dating of the Shroud indicated that it was of later date, and therefore a fake. The sample taken was just a few threads from a corner. I seriously doubt that any samples will ever be taken again. And the story will grow.

[Desdemona]

Then, Obama told the bankers, “I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks”

Never mind that the majority of us live in cities and pitchforks are not exactly common in garages anymore.

But, to the point of the post - yes, the Templars were framed, more or less, in a political move and it should not be surprising to anyone who knows history of that time halfway decently that they would have brought the Shroud from Constantinople. It's as plausible as anything else.

[nufsed]

LOL. They forgot to get the stainout.

You made it 0 for 3, but with humor.

[1066AD]

First century is 0-99 not 100-199; example, 19th century is 1800-1899, 20th century 1900-1999 and so on.

[nufsed]

I remember now. The year 0. Wasn’t that when nothing happened?

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Like everything else worth saving in this world, it’ll wind up in the filthy hands of the islamists, eventually.

[Swordmaker]

of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

Except when the Carbon Dating that was done in 1988 has been conclusive proved—through both chemical, statistical, and physical analysis published in peer-reviewed journals and independently confirmed—to have been done on samples taken from a PATCHED area of the Shroud where the material is MIXTURE of original Linen and 16th Century Cotton added to the original material to repair damage.

The percentage of polluting Cotton varied between 40% and 60% of the tested sample, accounting for the previously inexplicable statistical variation in the 1988 test results that far exceeded—a spread of over 155 years—the expectations of the degree of confidence had the sub-samples all clipped from the same master sample been homogenous. Once it was found they were NOT homogenous, and not exemplar of the main body of the Shroud, the Carbon Dating done in 1988 was falsified.

[mad_as_he$$]

Horsehockeys.

[Always Right]

I was being facetious.

[NTHockey]

It didn’t exist until 33 AD and was in Constitnople until 1204.

[fatima]

Wonder if the church knows.

[aruanan]

First century is 0-99 not 100-199; example, 19th century is 1800-1899, 20th century 1900-1999 and so on.

There is no year 0. The first year of the first 100 years was year 1, not year 0. The first century's years are 1 through 100. The second century begins at the beginning of the first year of the second century 101, and so on. Thought you would have learned this stuff at the turn of the Third Millennium which took place on January 1, 2001, the first year of the new millennium.

[nufsed]

Unresponsive to my question. Some detail about how it got to Constantnople in 33 and how you know it was there for nearly 1200 years.

[Salamander]

Maybe he takes after his Father’s side of the family....:)

[BroJoeK]

"Funny, he's got the marks of a phylactery on his forehead. That looks distinctly Jewish."

Well, I learn a new word every day. Thanks.

Phylactery: "Judaism. Either of two small leather boxes, each containing strips of parchment inscribed with quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures, one of which is strapped to the forehead and the other to the left arm; traditionally worn by Jewish men during morning worship, except on the Sabbath and holidays."

Wikipedia on Teffilin / phylacteries

Wikipedia quotes Old Testament verses and says ancient phylacteries were found at Qumran, so I'll take that as being plenty ancient enough.

Still, you'd suppose the New Testament would mention such a matter, especially as it carefully points out the dramatic crown of thorns, blood from which is said to appear on the Shroud of Turin.