Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Speciation and the Animals on the Ark
ICR ^ | April 2009 | Daniel Criswell, Ph.D.

Posted on 04/15/2009 8:21:59 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Speciation and the Animals on the Ark

by Daniel Criswell, Ph.D.*

Many people who use biological data to support an old-earth position believe that the appearance of millions of animal species does not support a young earth interpretation of creation. Nor do they think that a recent global Flood would support the existence of a great number of animals today if Noah only took two of each kind on the Ark. However, the science of how speciation occurs, and the definition of a species versus the biblical kind, does explain how many variations of the same kind of animal can arise quickly from small populations, such as those on Noah's Ark...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ark; createdkind; creation; evolution; genesis; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; isolation; kind; noah; noahsark; reproductive; science; speciation

1 posted on 04/15/2009 8:21:59 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor; metmom; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; GourmetDan; MrB; valkyry1; DaveLoneRanger; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 04/15/2009 8:22:41 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Pluto used to be a planet too.


3 posted on 04/15/2009 8:24:53 PM PDT by Patrick1 (I'm not calling in sick; I'm calling in gone!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

God would have to make a miracle happen for all of this to occur . . . Well, I guess that does explain it after all.


4 posted on 04/15/2009 8:32:51 PM PDT by BipolarBob (I shoot only after kindness fails.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

*The Creator God endowed His creatures with the potential for all the wondrous varieties that not only are evident in the fossil record, but also surround us today. This variation is made possible by the genetic information given to animals at the time of creation.*

Then explain all the creatures that kill and maim children.


5 posted on 04/15/2009 8:39:37 PM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

many variations of the same kind of animal can arise quickly from small populations, such as those on Noah’s Ark...

The ark (aka) The White House, shelters many variations of ANT-AMERICAN species that need a INTENSE. REDITION to another planet.


6 posted on 04/15/2009 8:40:33 PM PDT by katiekins1 (I Bow to No One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


7 posted on 04/15/2009 8:47:44 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

8 posted on 04/15/2009 8:52:10 PM PDT by stormer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: stormer
LOL...Everyone knows that it is the Evos who start with the conclusion first, and then scrounge around for facts to fit it. Here is but one example of how it works (many could be given!):


9 posted on 04/15/2009 9:00:02 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Has nothing much to do with anything, but the other day i heard some cop describe a desperate suspect as “fighting like he was the third monkey on the ark”.


10 posted on 04/15/2009 9:16:35 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

He actually made it on board? What a clever monkey!


11 posted on 04/15/2009 9:18:37 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts
However, the science of how speciation occurs

The science of how speciation occurs... is, ahem, evolution.

12 posted on 04/15/2009 9:20:02 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alter Kaker

Not at all, it is a frontloaded capability built in by the Creator. Duh!


13 posted on 04/15/2009 9:21:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Alter Kaker

Actually the term you’re looking for would be devolution - micro-devolution - since we now know the sub-set of DNA is something less than the original not greater (there’s that darn math again - dohhh!). A wolf has DNA capable of de-evolving into all the dog kinds but a poodle has a very limited DNA that can no longer evolve back into the wolf.


14 posted on 04/16/2009 4:38:58 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts
This is a pretty good refutation of the Young Earth Flood model of speciation.

FYI – this comes not from some atheistic, materialist, Darwinist, "Evilutionist" website but from a Christian Apologetics Creationist website, but that withstanding, still has some good info and raises some very interesting questions for you YEC'ers to answer.

Rapid Post-Flood Speciation: A Critique of the Young-Earth Model

One problem for the global-Flood view is explaining how the earth was repopulated with land animals after the Flood. Young-earth creationists who recognize the problem of fitting all the land animals on the ark now conclude Noah only took pairs of the Genesis "kinds." These, they say, were the ancestral seeds God provided to repopulate the world. As the "kinds" left the ark, they gave rise to the many different species on Earth today. For example, horses, zebras and donkeys descended from an equine "kind," dogs, wolves, coyotes and jackals from a canine "kind," and cattle, bison and water buffalos from a cattle "kind."

(Snip)

If true, the amount of post-Flood speciation must have been staggering. Young-earth creationists estimate Noah took 8,000 to 20,000 species on the ark. They also say a significant number of these species went extinct shortly after the Flood. Based on their dating method, approximately 7 million species have existed since the Flood-about 2 million have gone extinct and 5 million are alive today. Therefore, nearly 7 million species must have arisen from far less than 20,000 species in a time frame of a few hundred years.

(Snip)

In fact, if the Flood was as catastrophic as young-earth creationists maintain, it is doubtful anything would have survived. The young-earth model would require vertical land erosion of more than 700 feet per day and tectonic uplift of more than 200 vertical feet per day. Anything more than just one foot of erosion or tectonic uplift is sufficient to destroy most modern cities. Though the ark was seaworthy for a local flood, the G-forces produced by such cataclysmic movements would have destroyed it and its occupants.

15 posted on 04/16/2009 5:41:25 AM PDT by Caramelgal (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

So what did all the animals eat? Each other?


16 posted on 04/16/2009 5:51:55 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
So what did all the animals eat? Each other?

You evidently don’t know or read your Bible much! (/s)

You see before The Fall, eating was not necessary. No animals or plants ever died in The Garden as there was no such thing as death. All the plants and animals where put their solely for aesthetic purposes including the dinos.

But then again Eve was persuaded to eat a fruit. She might have been hungry then again maybe not as that would imply an allegorical interpretation and we all know the Bible is literal in this respect. ;),

After The Fall, Adam and Eve and their progeny were still vegetarians until Moses said it was OK to eat meat.

After The Fall, predatory animals perhaps did eat meat and presumably that could have included human prey but then again maybe not.

Some say that the predatory animals on the Ark were put into a state of suspended animation and required no food or water.

After the Ark landed on dry land it must have been a free for all since millions of species must have gone extinct shortly after the food waters receded. I guess they went extinct because they couldn't find enough food?
17 posted on 04/16/2009 6:31:46 AM PDT by Caramelgal (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Isn’t this an argument for (very) rapid evolution, with some semantic changes thrown in make the argument more palatable?


18 posted on 04/16/2009 7:42:58 AM PDT by atlaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Evolution is atheist and incompatible with Biblical teachings, but fast evolution is perfectly compatible?

I need more coffee.


19 posted on 04/16/2009 7:52:09 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: <1/1,000,000th%

If the ability to speciate rapidly is defined and frontloaded by the Creator, then it is not evolution.


20 posted on 04/16/2009 9:01:46 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

The we we have it..... the rind around the mind preventing rational thought


21 posted on 04/16/2009 9:03:09 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . John Galt hell !...... where is Francisco dÂ’Anconia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts
If the ability to speciate rapidly is defined and frontloaded by the Creator, then it is not evolution.

Ok. Then what is it?

22 posted on 04/16/2009 9:03:56 AM PDT by atlaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: atlaw

It means that God created each kind with the ability to adapt to a range of environmental conditions. As such, it is INTELLIGENT DESIGN.


23 posted on 04/16/2009 9:07:54 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

I’ve been arguing for 8 years that evolution is God’s process for creating us.

I’m simply surprised that ICR took this long to jump on the bandwagon. ;)


24 posted on 04/16/2009 9:08:39 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

Then why didn’t he design kids so they don’t get parasites?


25 posted on 04/16/2009 1:05:39 PM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: GodGunsGuts

“A devout clergyman, happening one day to see a crane wading in quest of food, pointed out to his son the perfect adaptation of the crane to get his living in that manner.

‘See,’ said he, ‘how his legs are formed for wading! What a long slender bill he has! Observe how nicely he folds his feet when putting them in or drawing them out of the water. He does not cause the slightest ripple. He is thus enabled to approach the fish without giving them any notice of his arrival!

‘My son,’said he,’it is impossible to look at that bird without recognizing the design, as well as the goodness of God, in thus providing the means of subsistence.’

“’Yes,’ replied the boy, ‘I think I see the goodness of God, at least as far as the crane is concerned; but after all, father, don’t you think the arrangement a little tough on the fish?’”

-R.G. Ingersoll


26 posted on 04/16/2009 1:59:55 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Chains you can believe in...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson