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The seal is broken on seceding from the Union and is now mainstream discussion.
U4prez.com ^ | 4/16/2009 | Eric Gurr

Posted on 04/16/2009 6:50:11 AM PDT by rrdog

What is the root of the secessionist movement? The driving force at the grass roots level is of course money. Many Americans are rightly disturbed by the transfer of their wealth, and the wealth of their children, to companies that made risky investments, or were poorly managed. This is new territory for the government. The transfer started under George W. Bush with his bank bailout and auto makers bailouts, and the Obama administration has really poured on the spending with additional bailouts and stimulus packages. Citizens of more fiscally conservative states are finding that there money is being redirected from their pockets, and sent to other states.

In years past politicians from both parties have used the guilt factor to increase spending for the "needy". This tempers the backlash from the populace as they realize they are to sacrifice a new boat, or nicer home, for the greater good of society. Today, citizens are being asked to sacrifice their children's education, vacations, and even the home they are in, so that money can be transferred from their wallets to multi-billion dollar corporations.

When we add more government controls and regulations on everything from cigarettes, to fast food and guns, we begin to see the problem. Government is now coming at everyone at some level, over some issue. This piling on is causing those fringe secessionist movements to became mainstream very quickly.

(Excerpt) Read more at u4prez.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; confederacy; confederate; cwii; seceding; secession; statesrights
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1 posted on 04/16/2009 6:50:11 AM PDT by rrdog
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To: rrdog

Yeah this turned out so well last time...


2 posted on 04/16/2009 6:51:24 AM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Yes, and for those of us in blue states, we will end up worse off than the Hindu’s in Pakistan after partition.


3 posted on 04/16/2009 6:53:48 AM PDT by MrNeutron1962
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To: rrdog

The differences between red and blue are irreconcilable in my opinion. Secession seems inevitable.


4 posted on 04/16/2009 6:57:11 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (American Revolution II -- overdue)
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To: rrdog

The flaw in the government set up by the Founders is that there is no mechanism for expelling states that are toxic to the freedom/free enterprise system that the nation was built on. Secession of the patriot states leaves them open to attack by the stronger force of the federal military. Expulsion of those states not true to American values would be the solution to many of our problems today and would leave the true American union intact. The socialist states would wither away after expulsion, because they are parasites living off the labor of others through the public dole, enabled by politicians buying votes with the tax money of producing states. Think of what a robust nation we would be without this drag on our body politic!


5 posted on 04/16/2009 6:59:03 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Dissolution of the Union is almost unavoidable at this point. The left has gone too far and our differences are too deep. I’m not willing to sacrifice any more liberty to feed the socialist monster that’s growing stronger every day in this country.


6 posted on 04/16/2009 6:59:05 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: MrNeutron1962

Don’t worry...we will happy ransom you by giving them the “Blue Staters” living our midst ;-)


7 posted on 04/16/2009 7:03:33 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: achilles2000

“happy” = “happily”


8 posted on 04/16/2009 7:04:21 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: rrdog
It was inevitable that this would happen once our nation started getting more internally diverse. Liberals (and for that matter, most mainstream conservatives) have argued for fifty years that it doesn't make any difference what the demographics are in a nation. As if history provides any example of that being true. They act as if Japan could become 30% Japanese, 20% French, 20% Pakistani Muslim, 10% Jewish, and 20% Zulu and everything there would continue on as if nothing had changed.

We're then confronted with a parasite ideology, liberalism, which sponges off the constructive and productive elements of society, and uses the aforementioned internal diversity as a battering ram to get what it demands. Add in the arrival of feminism, secularism, and homosexualism, and you've got the makings of balkanization. There is no possibility of conservatism surviving in a very diverse society. It can't survive because conservatism by its very nature seeks to conserve what existed before the diversity occurred, while the diverse elements by their very nature are at war with those things. In addition, all these diverse elements feed off of the accumulated capital of conservatives, both by stealing our tax dollars and hijacking our constitutional order (as feminists and homosexuals have done). As diversity increases, conservatism must recede or depart.

9 posted on 04/16/2009 7:04:47 AM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: ClearCase_guy

That is what I think. I think both sides needs to recognize this and agree to seperate. We are broken and there is no going back. We need to get a movemant going on this.


10 posted on 04/16/2009 7:07:36 AM PDT by Halls (This nation needs Jesus!)
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To: pgkdan

Rather than secession, at this point in time, I would like to see Washington DC isolated from the rest of the country if our politicians continue on the track they are on. I guess what I’m saying is, instead of States pulling out, the States need to come together and as has been said, remove the ones that don’t believe in our Constitution. Maybe move the Capital to Texas until Washington gets its act together. Let these people know we’ve had enough.


11 posted on 04/16/2009 7:07:38 AM PDT by RC2
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To: puroresu

What will happen to the arms manufacturers in Connectictut?


12 posted on 04/16/2009 7:07:50 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (I am a right wing extremist. God Bless America)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Texans have an independent ornery streak, but no one seriously wants Secession. Sam Houston opposed it the first time, and was ridiculed. Had the South had industry they would have won the war then.

We must take it all back from those who wish to destroy this great nation.

This time is different, you tell me who has the balls and the bullets now.

I am 61 years old, but will die opposing the destruction of this nation.


13 posted on 04/16/2009 7:08:39 AM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Move them to Texas.


14 posted on 04/16/2009 7:09:08 AM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: rrdog

It will never happen. The socialists will never let the Free-Marketeers go. They need the Free-Marketeers because those are the people who generate the wealth that the socialists need so desperately. Without the Fee-Marketeers the socialist entities would collapse in complete ruin within months if not weeks.

No the socialists will use the gun barrel before they will let anyone escape their evil net.


15 posted on 04/16/2009 7:09:39 AM PDT by Seruzawa (Obamalama lied, the republic died.)
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To: rrdog

The concept should be purge.

Rather than leave, the entire northeast and California should be purged from the union as a start. The euros should be kicked out of the union


16 posted on 04/16/2009 7:09:47 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . John Galt hell !...... where is Francisco dÂ’Anconia)
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To: pgkdan

I don’t think it is inevitable. If it occurred, however, to make secession worthwhile we would still have to deal with the “Blue Staters” in our midst, who would certainly begin the process of pushing the newly freed states back into the same old patterns of government and thinking. We would also have to scrub from our minds the collectivist ideas that the left has managed to insinuate into the heads of even most conservatives.


17 posted on 04/16/2009 7:11:04 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
They'd better relocate to a southern or heartland state.
18 posted on 04/16/2009 7:11:28 AM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: puroresu
I am not as sure as you that “diversity” is really the issue as is the teaching of a treasonous ideology that has been taught and allowed to fester in our country.

What is the treasonous ideology? That teaching is against our Constitution. Tolerance of Free Speech vs. Tolerance of Treasonous Speech

19 posted on 04/16/2009 7:11:51 AM PDT by EBH (The world is a balance between good & evil, your next choice will tip the scale.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Indeed, irreconcilable.

They insist on enslaving us, we insist on not being enslaved.


20 posted on 04/16/2009 7:12:04 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: pgkdan

If you think the divide is bad now, just wait until the democrats legalize the 20-40 million illegal aliens currently in our country.

Don’t think they aren’t licking their chops at setting up another democrat dependancy group which will give them an almost insurmountable advantage in national elections.


21 posted on 04/16/2009 7:13:15 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (We've gone from Jefferson to the Jeffersons)
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To: RC2

I have said for years that the answer is to declare DC a museum district, make all the representatives go home to the states that elected them. No need to have them cloistered away in DC, they need to be where their constituents can watch them closely and keep them honest. We live in the age of instant information, DC is from the time that men traveled on horseback and it took days and weeks to communicate.


22 posted on 04/16/2009 7:15:12 AM PDT by pepperdog (The world has gone crazy.)
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To: reagan_fanatic

Bingo!


23 posted on 04/16/2009 7:15:45 AM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: rrdog
Before dissolution, I would like to see states stand up to D.C., withhold taxes, ignore the 17th amendment, force a return to The Constitution of The Republic.

Lets see how Obama, Pelosi, Reid and Frank handle that.

24 posted on 04/16/2009 7:16:23 AM PDT by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing.....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: achilles2000

pretty easy to get rid of parasites in the free states.

just cut off their gov’t benies and they’re outa here.

Now, keeping the libs from leaking in, escaping their hellholes, but bringing their screwed up ideology with them - that’s a more difficult nut to crack... Ideological test? Voting history test?


25 posted on 04/16/2009 7:16:31 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Halls
I think both sides needs to recognize this and agree to seperate.

You have to realize, it's not just our wealth and industriousness they need to support their socialism, but it's more of a control issue - they will NEVER allow you to escape their control, because they know better.

26 posted on 04/16/2009 7:17:49 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Seruzawa

From the lefties I’ve talked to about this issue,
they don’t believe that conservatives supply the wealth for the welfare state. It’s more a matter of it being antithetical to their ideology to allow anyone to escape their control.


27 posted on 04/16/2009 7:19:11 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: reagan_fanatic

I believe they’ve already closed the “ballot box” of liberty.


28 posted on 04/16/2009 7:19:53 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: kittymyrib

I don’t know that I’d consider that a flaw. The founders never foresaw that their words would be so twisted; they were honorable men. The problem is so much power concentrated in the federal government. Frankly, the same problem existed in our (first?) war for independence. The United States succeeded in creating virtually the same system against which we rose up. Through elections we created an elite class who believe they know better than we how to spend our money and run our lives. It’s almost like we’ve found our way back to the lowest common denominator.


29 posted on 04/16/2009 7:21:24 AM PDT by FourPeas (I am the pink flamingo on the great lawn of life.)
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To: MrNeutron1962
...we will end up worse off than the Hindu’s in Pakistan after partition.

Well come on down and bring your firearms.

30 posted on 04/16/2009 7:21:37 AM PDT by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: rrdog
Question:

If a person openly petitions his state government's elected officials to secede from the United States, is that person guily of sedition or worse, treason? Or is the aforementioned speech Contitutionally protected?

31 posted on 04/16/2009 7:23:40 AM PDT by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: achilles2000

You misgauge the mindset of a Texan to characterize them this way.

Texas’s unique background as a sovereign nation with an independent streak is ingrained in its historical negotiated entry into this country, which no other state possesses.

When the Republic of Texas agreed to become a state, the US accepted two conditions demanded by Texas:

1. Texas kept all of its states lands. This caused tremendous acreage to be kept away from federal control, and promoted private ownership to levels few states enjoyed.

2. Any time Texas wishes, it can split into 5 states. What does this do? Gives 8 more conservative US Senators from this area. (Northerners cringe on this one.)


32 posted on 04/16/2009 7:24:48 AM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: rrdog

33 posted on 04/16/2009 7:25:52 AM PDT by stormer
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To: ClearCase_guy
The differences between red and blue are irreconcilable in my opinion. Secession seems inevitable.

Don't secede. Expel.

Time for THEM to take a walk!

Kick New England and New York City out of the Union. They go out and take 30,000,000 'Rat trolls with them. Problem solved.

34 posted on 04/16/2009 7:29:49 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: rrdog
Non starter and going no where, common sense would be a constitutional convention.
35 posted on 04/16/2009 7:30:51 AM PDT by org.whodat (Auto unions bad: Machinists union good=Hypocrisy)
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To: pepperdog

Agreed. My point here is not to let them dictate to the States and force our people to suceed as an only answer to the problem. If the States came together, they could isolate DC and the people could take our country back. We will not succeed by splitting up the States. Bring them together as a unit. If that doesn’t work, then go the other route. I’m not ready to give up totally on my country yet, but I am ready to give up on DC.


36 posted on 04/16/2009 7:31:24 AM PDT by RC2
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To: rrdog
Good question.... I seriously doubt the federal government will put 5,000,000 of us Texans on trial.

I for one will support the break as much as possible. Looking at my tax dollars as an investment is yielding exponentially low return.

I say HELL YES for Texas secession.

37 posted on 04/16/2009 7:31:58 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
ROFLOL, what arms manufacturers in Connecticut!!

those are just mailing addresses and offices.

38 posted on 04/16/2009 7:32:39 AM PDT by org.whodat (Auto unions bad: Machinists union good=Hypocrisy)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775
Yeah this turned out so well last time...

A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.

Last time, if I remember, it turned out all free.

39 posted on 04/16/2009 7:33:09 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: rrdog

Rather than secede, why don’t we just kick out the blue parts?


40 posted on 04/16/2009 7:33:16 AM PDT by Islander7 (If you want to anger conservatives, lie to them. If you want to anger liberals, tell them the truth.)
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To: central_va
Constitutionally protected.

Secession is a sovereign act of the People, and secession conventions are just like conventions to ratify or amend the Constitution. There is nothing "treasonous", either now or in 1861, about secession.

Chief Justice Chase, in his 1869 opinion in Texas vs. White (from which, btw, he should have recused himself, having been a Lincoln cabinet member through over three years of the Civil War), said that secession ordinances were null, void, and illegal. He lied through his teeth. The dissent was better law, but he was a political hack put up there in the CJ's chair by Lincoln himself precisely to do what he did: Homer for the Lincoln Administration and its prosecution of the Civil War.

Admitting that secession was legal and that Texas had done it the right way (Arkansas may not have) would have put Lincoln's War in a whole new, and unflattering, light.

41 posted on 04/16/2009 7:35:16 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Well, I'm in MA and I agree with you -- my state has no business being part of the US. But the government will not kick out the blue states -- the government depends on the blue states. The country, on the other hand, depends on the red states.

The country needs to separate itself from the blue states, because the government will not take that action.

42 posted on 04/16/2009 7:35:33 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (American Revolution II -- overdue)
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To: Islander7

I like the idea, but can you imagine the logistics of relocation?


43 posted on 04/16/2009 7:36:12 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: MrB

I realize that, but if ends up going to war they should know we have the upper hand. We carry guns, they don’t, and the military is more on our side than theirs and they will join us, not them. I think negotiations will help them realize we will win, and may be they will agree to step bakc and agree to seperation.

And I’m not talking just Texas. I’m talking about a full secession of the country.


44 posted on 04/16/2009 7:37:22 AM PDT by Halls (This nation needs Jesus!)
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To: catfish1957

Treason in 1861, treason now. Try supporting the UNITED States of America.


45 posted on 04/16/2009 7:37:48 AM PDT by AUH2O Repub (Should have been Thompson/Hutchinson)
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To: MrB

The problem is that liberals have conditioned most conservatives to respond in an unprincipled way to “sob stories” and to harbor irrational fears. I have been surprised at the number of conservatives who embrace liberalism on one or more issues on emotional grounds or self-interest.

Political secession without intellectual and psychological rehabilitation will ultimately be a blind alley,.


46 posted on 04/16/2009 7:38:34 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: Halls

One state starting the ball rolling is all it will take.
“Jesusland” will all eventually tell the fedgov to bugger off.

Let them pay for the debt they run up.

Perhaps when they go bankrupt, we can buy their “shares” for pennies on the dollar.


47 posted on 04/16/2009 7:38:49 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Texas Fossil
Had the South had industry they would have won the war then.

The South came very close to winning anyway. Their problem was they were on the wrong side of history.

We must take it all back from those who wish to destroy this great nation. This time is different, you tell me who has the balls and the bullets now.

Wouldn't it be far easier to fix the Republican party, rather than banging our rattles and pooping in our diapers? Ronald Reagan showed how it's done.

48 posted on 04/16/2009 7:39:09 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Let them move to Texas...


49 posted on 04/16/2009 7:39:19 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: achilles2000

Kicking God out of society will do just as you’ve stated.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.


50 posted on 04/16/2009 7:39:57 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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