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Texas Governor Rick Perry Threatens Secession From The Union (Austin, Texas Tea Party)
Buisness Insider.com ^ | Apr. 16, 2009, 10:42 AM | Joe Weisenthal

Posted on 04/16/2009 8:34:49 AM PDT by lewisglad

Speaking at an anti-tax protest yesterday, the Texas governor brought up the fact that Texas had the right to secede from the union if thing in Washington got bad enough.

Now before we go further, let's set a little background:

Texans are fiercely prideful. You've probably seen the phrase "Don't Mess with Texas" before. It was originally meant to be an anti-littering slogan, but Texans have turned the phrase into a catch-all statement of the state's independent spirit.

Texans like to talk about independence and the fact that it's been part of six countries in its history.

That being said, it might be fun to daydream about what an independent Texas state would be like.There's a whole host of great country songs that could be its national anthem. Like, perhaps, Waltz Across Texas or All My Exes Live in Texas.

If it did secede, we hope that they can come up with something regarding Texas atheletics, so that the football teams can still participate in the NCAA. It'd be boring for the University of Texas (disclosure: my alma matter) to just beat up on Texas A&M every Saturday.

Here's one thing we do know. An independent nation of Texas would be energy independent.

Specifically, with respect to the supply of Oil and Gas. Would an independent Texas be able to produce enough oil and gas to serve its own population, with some left over for export ? Indeed it would. In fact, Texas produces more oil than any other state and accounts for 19.7% of total US output. Texas also produces more than 30% of US natural gas supply. Texas does consume a goodly portion of its own oil output, about 75% of what it produces. But, it only consumes half of its own natural gas production.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aar; bho44; civilwar; dixie; perry; taxday; teaparty; texas
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To: DivaDelMar

We’re already growing faster than any other state. I’m sure we could make room for one more! ;-)


101 posted on 04/16/2009 10:51:13 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: Marie

My son was born in Austin, does he qualify as an anchor baby?


102 posted on 04/16/2009 10:57:27 AM PDT by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: gondramB

My husband thinks that the clincher for war will be if Obama wins an election with 70+% of the popular vote. I don’t think any that any president has won with more than 65% of the popular vote, especially one presiding over difficult economic times.

If that happens, we’ll know for sure that the election process is rigged and that there’s no way to get out of this mess with peaceful, legal means.

At that moment, all bets are off.


103 posted on 04/16/2009 10:59:49 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon
Still did not address the actual power behind it, i.e. it having as much authority (none) as a similar ruling from a British judiciary in 1776.

From Wikipedia:

Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (Cranch 1) 137 (1803) is a landmark case in United States law. It formed the basis for the exercise of judicial review in the United States under Article III of the Constitution.

This case resulted from a petition to the Supreme Court by William Marbury, who had been appointed by President John Adams as Justice of the Peace in the District of Columbia but whose commission was not subsequently delivered. Marbury petitioned the Supreme Court to force Secretary of State James Madison to deliver the documents, but the court, with John Marshall as Chief Justice, denied Marbury's petition, holding that the statute upon which he based his claim, the Judiciary Act of 1789, was unconstitutional.

Marbury v. Madison was the first time the Supreme Court declared something "unconstitutional," and established the concept of judicial review in the U.S. (the idea that courts may oversee and nullify the actions of another branch of government). The landmark decision helped define the "checks and balances" of the American form of government.

From Federalist No. 78 (Hamilton):

. . . It is far more rational to suppose, that the courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It, therefore, belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents. . . .

I am not going to get into the debate about use of foreign law in Supreme Court decisions (there are whole books on the subject), but suffice it to say the Supreme Court has looked at foreign law for guidance (but not controlling interpretation) throughout US history.

104 posted on 04/16/2009 11:01:10 AM PDT by zaphod3000 (Free markets, free minds, free lives)
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To: Kolokotronis
Perhaps the AG in Texas or a U.S. Attorney could remind the governor of the penalty for treason in this country . . .

There would be a LONG line in front of him - including the Big 0.

105 posted on 04/16/2009 11:02:56 AM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: nbhunt

Too bad. he sounds like a globalist phoney.


106 posted on 04/16/2009 11:08:38 AM PDT by ZULU (Obamanation of Desolation is President. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: TexasAg; lafroste; bobjam; Landru; Jack Black; Ditto
Article 1, Section 1.

Sec.A1.AAFREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.

Here's part of Article 1, Section 2.

The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

The way I read this, if the Federal Government violates the Constitution or ceases to be a Republican form of government, we can leave.

I think that it's clear that the feds are violating the Constitution (and have been for some time). The big argument will be, do we still have a Republic? If it's proven that we do not, then we can go our merry way.

Now, will they let us go without a fight... ?

107 posted on 04/16/2009 11:13:24 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: lafroste

I believe that, for ever dollar we send to Washington, we get back something like 92 cents.

I do know that it actually costs *us* money to be part of the Union.


108 posted on 04/16/2009 11:15:44 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: texgal

“There would be a LONG line in front of him - including the Big 0.”

You think so? I haven’t heard any clear cut treason come out of Obama’s mouth, not yet anyway, but we all just did from the governor of Texas.


109 posted on 04/16/2009 11:16:05 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Sarajevo

“That’s most of Austin!”

Where’s that? Oh, Now I get it!
You mean Babylon on the Colorado!


110 posted on 04/16/2009 11:24:14 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: Spktyr
"Article 1, Section 1...THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION...ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS...Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE...Sec. 2. INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT...Sec. 3. EQUAL RIGHTS."

Simply amazing, so logical and by [that] I mean that while Texas agreed to joining the Union, it sure doesn't sound like Texans trusted much more than themselves.

"All other transgressions aside, I’d say that the Obama Stimulus Package pretty much violates Art. 1, Sec. 1. as the right of local self-government has now been abrogated by the Feds."

Be impossible to disagree with you there, for sure.

Thanks for taking the time to post the articles, my friend. I honestly never knew Texans protected Texas' interest(s) so well, so legally, so long ago. ;^)

111 posted on 04/16/2009 11:25:34 AM PDT by Landru (Arghh, they're trapped in my colon like spackle or paste.)
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To: Kolokotronis
You think so? I haven’t heard any clear cut treason come out of Obama’s mouth, not yet anyway, but we all just did from the governor of Texas.

Sorry, you must not have actually read Gov. Goodhair's actual statement, which was:

"We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."

Treason is a breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy. The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance; or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power. Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort. Cramer v. U. S., U.S.N.Y., 325 U.S. l, 65 S.Ct. 918, 9327 89 L.Ed. 1441. See 18 U.S.C.A. § 2381.

Curious how you see Gov. Perry's statements as satisfying any element of treaon, much less both.

112 posted on 04/16/2009 11:26:12 AM PDT by Shady Ray
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To: IndianPrincessOK

He’s only doing it for votes. He’s a RINO and we’re trying like hell to get rid of him.

Now Ted Nugent... there’s an idea...


113 posted on 04/16/2009 11:27:17 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: nbhunt
I suggest we Draft The Nuge!!
114 posted on 04/16/2009 11:29:14 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: Marie
The way I read this, if the Federal Government violates the Constitution or ceases to be a Republican form of government, we can leave.

It is pretty obvious to me it is speaking about the right of the people of the state of Texas in regards to their state government. Let's go through it.

The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

If it were talking about the Federal government as you read it, it would mean that the people of the State of Texas would have the unilateral right to "alter or reform" the Federal government without any consultation or agreement with the people of other states.

I'm sure you would agree that would be pretty absurd.

115 posted on 04/16/2009 11:33:24 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: central_va

Sure! LOL!


116 posted on 04/16/2009 11:33:28 AM PDT by Marie ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: Ditto

Here’s the operative clause of Art 1, Sec 1:

“...the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.”

I read that as “Screw with local self-government anywhere in the US, with any State, and we have the right to leave.”

The Obama Stimulus Plan abrogates local self-government.


117 posted on 04/16/2009 11:39:49 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Marie
"The way I read this, if the Federal Government violates the Constitution or ceases to be a Republican form of government, we can leave."

I'd interpret [it] the same way, my friend.

"I think that it's clear that the feds are violating the Constitution (and have been for some time)."

AMEN!!! {BIG applause}

"The big argument will be, do we still have a Republic? If it's proven that we do not, then we can go our merry way."

Might even take less than that, Marie.

"Now, will they let us go without a fight... ?"

No, socialist like spending other people's money as much as other people dieing so they may continue their shenanigans.

Thank you kindly for posting the articles Marie, and, posting your wise opinion!

118 posted on 04/16/2009 11:42:14 AM PDT by Landru (Arghh, they're trapped in my colon like spackle or paste.)
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To: lewisglad
Texas Rangers motto:

One riot, one Ranger.

119 posted on 04/16/2009 11:56:55 AM PDT by Syncro (Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat)
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To: Spktyr
I read that as “Screw with local self-government anywhere in the US, with any State, and we have the right to leave.”

You can read it that way if you choose, but there is no right to unilaterally leave. There is only our Natural Law Right to Revolution.

Think about it from a practical standpoint. If such a right to unilateral secession actually existed when Federal authority oversteps it constitutional bounds, why would an oppressive Federal government respect that particular right to secession when it chooses to ignore the rest of the Constitution? It's just silly to think they would.

If you really want out for just cause, you are going to have to fight your way out just as our Founders did.

See James Madison on 'The Right to Revolution."

120 posted on 04/16/2009 12:02:36 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: wk4bush2004

“Do you really think that the majority of the military is going to back Obama, considering that over 70% of them voted McCain/Palin in the election? I’d bet a lot of the military is extremely frustrated with Obama, considering all the crap he’s doing.

I think many of them might join Texas!”

Just because 70% voted against Obama doesn’t mean 70% are ready to overthrow the gov’t. Perhaps I’m wrong. It would be fascinating to see such a dilemna,from a history perspective.


121 posted on 04/16/2009 12:43:59 PM PDT by Longdriver
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To: lewisglad

“Walker, Texas Rangers? My money’s on them against Zero! :) “

Against “Zero”, yes. Against the world’s greatest military? Absolutely not.


122 posted on 04/16/2009 12:44:51 PM PDT by Longdriver
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To: nbhunt

Thank you. I’ll send you a FreepMail if / when I make the move. I’ve been seriously looking at other countries. Maybe I just need to move to Texas and help you make a new country.

I’ll bring my recipe books too. I’ll probably need some lessons on Texas BBQ and sweet tea, but I’m a fast learner.


123 posted on 04/16/2009 12:48:01 PM PDT by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: texgal; Marie

Thank you both! I’ll freepmail you if I decide to move. I hold two professional licenses and I have to see about transfering them or re-registering in Texas. Then we’re going to have to get serious about this secession thing.


124 posted on 04/16/2009 12:50:39 PM PDT by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: McGavin999

“The only problem with Texas seceding is that it would be quickly over populated. The rest of us would move there overnight causing a real population problem.”

I suspect if things got to that point, Texas WOULD NOT be the only state looking to take a powder and leave.


125 posted on 04/16/2009 1:03:57 PM PDT by Neville72 (uist)
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To: IndianPrincessOK

Perry is a self-indulgent RINO. You don’t want him as Pres.


126 posted on 04/16/2009 1:22:53 PM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Kolokotronis
You think so? I haven’t heard any clear cut treason come out of Obama’s mouth, not yet anyway, but we all just did from the governor of Texas.

I think you'd have a hard time getting a conviction of treason on that. If so, half of the State of Texas could be found guilty. Nice try though!

127 posted on 04/16/2009 1:30:20 PM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: Ditto
That is a myth. The only thing different in regards to Texas statehood is that they could, if they so desired, break themselves apart into as many as five seperate states, but they would all remain in the Union.

You are correct. But the timeless words of Thomas Jefferson from the Declaration of Independence still ring true that essentially man was not created for government benefit but the other way around (as a brief paraphrase). It is pointless to discuss whether a people or a state have the "right" to "secede" or abolish their current form of government.

If such a thing could be done by consent then by definition no tyranny would exist.

At this point I could care less what pretense we use to fight for the preservation of our cherished freedom. A fight will be waged nonetheless.

128 posted on 04/16/2009 1:42:21 PM PDT by Clump (the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: Kolokotronis

“a memo on what happened the last time some governors thought states had the right to secede from the Union.”
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Apparently you are one who is under the delusion that when someone is smothered to death that means they never had a right to breathe in the first place.


129 posted on 04/16/2009 1:48:18 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Change has come to America and all hope is gone.)
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To: texgal

“I think you’d have a hard time getting a conviction of treason on that. If so, half of the State of Texas could be found guilty. Nice try though!”

Oh, I’m sure we could always find enough rope to hang traitors, even if its half the state of Texas!


130 posted on 04/16/2009 3:24:32 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: RipSawyer

“Apparently you are one who is under the delusion that when someone is smothered to death that means they never had a right to breathe in the first place.”

Oh, not at all. I simply believe, along with Sam Adams, that traitors in a republic should be hung.


131 posted on 04/16/2009 3:25:49 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: SouthernBoyupNorth

“If Texas does secede from the union.... can I immigrate to the Republic of Texas??????

Well trade you for five liberals from Austin!


132 posted on 04/16/2009 3:25:56 PM PDT by longhorn too
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

I suggest we Draft The Nuge!!

fine with me.....he’ll do fine. Did you see him on Glenn Beck? grrrreat guy....


133 posted on 04/16/2009 5:14:54 PM PDT by nbhunt
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To: Kolokotronis

“Oh, not at all. I simply believe, along with Sam Adams, that traitors in a republic should be hung.”
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Then you and I have starkly differing views, I think tyrants should be hung as well as traitors but those who rise against tyrants are not traitors, they are patriots.


134 posted on 04/16/2009 5:26:08 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Change has come to America and all hope is gone.)
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To: Sarajevo

“Perry is a self-indulgent RINO. You don’t want him as Pres.”

Ok, that’s the second time I read that today....Kay Bailey Hutchins I hear is running....great....


135 posted on 04/16/2009 5:43:15 PM PDT by IndianPrincessOK (Well.......we're still here! I survived, you survived. Is this a dream or a nightmare?)
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To: RipSawyer

“...I think tyrants should be hung as well as traitors but those who rise against tyrants are not traitors, they are patriots.”

You disagree with Sam Adams too, I see. Your opportunity to “rise up” against an elected “tyrant” in this country comes every four years at a ballot box. Otherwise, all the sophistry and special pleading at your command can’t excuse treasonous rebellion or avoid the just penalty of the noose!


136 posted on 04/16/2009 6:00:48 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

You have probably heard the old saying about opinions.


137 posted on 04/16/2009 6:14:58 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Change has come to America and all hope is gone.)
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To: Clump
At this point I could care less what pretense we use to fight for the preservation of our cherished freedom. A fight will be waged nonetheless.

I tend to agree. I just pray that the 'fight' is conducted in the political arena, and not in the streets. And I'm getting too damn old for street fights. ;~))

There is no neat, clean legal loophole that will allow us to avoid the fight. Secession is simply not a realistic option.

138 posted on 04/16/2009 6:24:11 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Kolokotronis
Oh, I’m sure we could always find enough rope to hang traitors, even if its half the state of Texas!

C'mon down and try. There's no hurry now, we'll wait.

139 posted on 04/16/2009 7:56:58 PM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: IndianPrincessOK
....Kay Bailey Hutchins I hear is running....great....

Kay "Bailout"-Hutchison? Don't want her either. We need a good alternative.

140 posted on 04/16/2009 7:58:58 PM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Kolokotronis
Your opportunity to “rise up” against an elected “tyrant” in this country comes every four years at a ballot box.

Some opportunity. Of the last 3 presidential elections, 2 have been decided by the judiciary, and the recent one was fixed.

141 posted on 04/16/2009 8:02:07 PM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Sarajevo

“C’mon down and try. There’s no hurry now, we’ll wait.”

Worked out good for you folks back in 1861, didn’t it?! Like I said, there’s always enough rope to hang traitors.


142 posted on 04/17/2009 1:25:13 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Sarajevo

“...and the recent one was fixed.”

Really? And the evidence that the result of the Nov. 2008 election was something other than a rejection of Republican and otherwise conservative government by a majority of the voters is exactly what, S?


143 posted on 04/17/2009 1:28:57 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon

I think Texas would soon be a part of Mexico without the US government military support. Americans shed blood to kick out the Mexicans and create the great state of Texas...remember the Alamo! Anyone who supports this sort of secessionist nonsense should be arrested for sedition/treason. It seems to me there was some sort of shootout between the police and some secessionist fringe group. Correct me if I am wrong but people were killed and the leader of this movement was jailed for murder and remains in jail to this day. Also, the GOP should have nothing to do with this because it makes us look like a bunch of idiots.


144 posted on 04/17/2009 6:10:26 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: Kolokotronis

I don’t get it. The GOP lost the 2008 election rather badly. By our laws and history, the proper response should be...better luck next time and let’s rebuild our party. Unfortunately, it seems there are some (hopefully few) on the right who believe we should destroy our republic because we lost and refuse to accept the outcome of the 2008 election. You win some, and you lose some. For heavens sake let’s show some dignity and not become the laughingstock of the political world.


145 posted on 04/17/2009 6:14:42 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: Marie

This is completely nonsensical. If we lost by such a figure, it would mean we need to work really hard to save our party. You can ‘steal’ close elections but not the overwhelming majority sort. The Democrats believe to this day that President Bush stole the 2000 election (statistically a tie within the margins of error, but by our laws President Bush won) and the 2004 elections (Diebold stole the election in Ohio nonsense) but even they did not support destroying the Republic because they lost...it’s going to be a long four years in the wilderness for us, don’t make it eight years by behaving really badly and convincing America that we are insane.


146 posted on 04/17/2009 6:20:21 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: Shady Ray

Gov. Perry’s remarks were dangerously close to sedition/treason...he is to close for comfort.


147 posted on 04/17/2009 6:22:01 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon

Sure they were and had they lost, they would have been hung as traitors to England. However, we formed a new world as it were and prospered. If Texas can win against the US government, I guess you can avoid being tried for treason and executed...not much of a chance in my opinion. I believe in preserving the union and our republic. As I stated before, Texas could not survive without being part of the US and would most likely become part of Mexico...now there is a really bad government. The secession question was settled in 1865...let it go before the GOP is branded with this nonsense.


148 posted on 04/17/2009 6:27:02 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: Kolokotronis
Oh, I’m sure we could always find enough rope to hang traitors, even if its half the state of Texas!

You'd have to start with the traitors in DC first. The federal government has breached it's contract with the states.

A survey on a local radio station this morning in Houston asked if Texans would favor Texas session 75% said yes. We're all fed-up with wasteful, unresponsive,intursive federal government that can't get one thing right.

149 posted on 04/17/2009 6:52:45 AM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: nyconse
Having been born and raised in San Antonio, I don't need to remember it to know that most of the folks defending it were Texians, including an American contingent who came to Texas to settle and wound up staying to fight (Crockett, et al). I truly love the sedition/treason charge, considering the US was created by just that. So, let me ask you one question: at what point would you personally sign a new Declaration of Independence? Obama will grant citizenship to 15 million immigrants, legal and illegal, thus securing another 5-10 million Democrat votes to keep the Dems in power. Even if the balance in Congress is closer, RINOs will still keep pushing the country Left (even Bush gave us No Child Left Behind, prescription coverage, the Bail Out[!]). Where do you draw your own line in the sand (to use another Alamo reference)?
150 posted on 04/17/2009 7:18:54 AM PDT by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Mow your own lawn!)
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