Posted on 04/18/2009 11:15:16 PM PDT by Squidpup
Seventy five years ago is going to seem like yesterday here in just a second.
Take a look at this cartoon published in the Chicago Tribune on April 21, 1934 titled, “PLANNED ECONOMY OR PLANNED DESTRUCTION?”
It’s true for most that their sense of history usually extends into the past only about as far as the day they decided to start paying attention to what was going on around them.
An old saying goes something like this: “History, it is said, repeats itself. Few but are reminded almost every day of something that has gone before.”
Every “crisis” seems brand new, any manner of “suffering” in today’s world could never have been imagined nor experienced by mankind in the past…so people think as they muddle through their day.
sweet find!
just change the names and it still fits today...
Very good find. Well, we saw the outcome of that last one and the socialist president in the office then. I guess we can assume the same outcome on this one. Redistribution of wealth, expansion of social programs, loss of more individual rights. Please 2010, hurry up and get here.
The difference is that the economy of the 1930’s grew itself out of the debt burden of government spending. People always say “because of the war”, but wasn’t this just a command economy carried to the nth degree? Well, the thing is that the nation grew through the forties and fifties - in population, and every measure of consumption and production.
Now we are faced with an official policy of economic contraction, in the form of the “carbon cap”. The Obamites are clearly modeling their actions on historical examples of growth, but I don’t see how this can be repeated.
From Chicago no less... The only iron(y) still made in the US.
That one's a keeper, thanks!
Yeah, global American hegemony. Just what everybody is predicting ( and gloating over ) the demise of at this point in time. What are you smoking?
The single most important part of the cartoon is “Blame the Capitalists for the Failure.” That’s what they do every time, and every time it gets easier. I’ve had long conversations with many people who understand and approve of free market principles on a regular basis, who nonetheless believe the Great Depression was caused by capitalist excess, and that Roosevelt eased our pain until WWII pulled us out. Darn shame.
It is he, who as Sec. of Interior, practically woke up one morning and siezed resources (oil) off of California's and La's coast.
La's been fightin' it ever since.
If one is interested in the Long dynasty of La., there's a fascinating story that goes with this episode in La's and the US' political history.
“Yeah, global American hegemony. Just what everybody is predicting ( and gloating over ) the demise of at this point in time.”
That was one of the outcomes. Or rather, near hegemony. You forgot about Russia, a much “advanced” socialist nation. We all know socialists can win wars. Whether or not command economies are the best for peace is another matter.
Obviously I’m smoking on logic. Are you telling me that the “New Deal” was a greatly successful social experiment in regards to helping the U.S. economy or are we forgetting that the whole thing extended the recession? Not to mention the creation of social security and several other programs that have done nothing, but fail.
Not for a second. As big and as dangerous as they made themselves, they were revealed as posers in the end. Nobody's fretting over the eminent demise of the ruble, we may note.
Yes but still, we have the whole kissy face thing with Chavez and Castro, don't we? It's like a horror movie.
http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2002/summer_2002_3.html
Here is a good read on the subject. The 100% tax on anything over $25,000 blew me away.
“As big and as dangerous as they made themselves, they were revealed as posers in the end”
Rome eventually fell, too. Doesn’t mean their centuries of hegemony weren’t real. The Soviet Union half-dominated world politics for 45 years. Former satellites, especially China, are still kicking. Can’t take that away from them.
Well ... who knows? At the time, people loved it, and Hoover dam is still there. Roosevelt's influence was so pervasive that it's impossible to construct an alternative history with any kind of persuasive power. One way or the other, we grew and prospered.
I will give credit where credit is due and he was a major factor in WWII, but there is just too much information out there based on the failed policies of his social engineering programs(and they most definitely were that). Read that article I sent you, very good information in there as to why people “loved it.” It was basically control of the masses in a politicized way.
I read it and it is quite persuasive. I have been tuned into this idea for a number of years now, but again, it is very hard to imagine the alternative history, especially since WWII and the subsequent economic growth kind of wiped the slate clean.
So, the obvious rejoinder to this cartoon is that everything worked out in the end for Roosevelt, so why not for Obama? You guys are swimming against history! It’s a poor argument, but I don’t think it’s countered very well by trying to emphasize what a disaster Roosevelt was, when people just don’t see it that way.
Ignorance of the issues(on the peoples’ part) does not contend that what he did helped? I for one do not like paying for social security that I for one will most likely never see. Anybody that depends on the government solely to cover them when they retire...........is in trouble. Which is why 12% of gross income goes to my 401(k). It ticks me off when I see that money going to social security when I could be putting into my 401(k). As such though, I will let this issue die on my side now. If you wish to discuss further though, I am all for it.
“So, the obvious rejoinder to this cartoon is that everything worked out in the end for Roosevelt, so why not for Obama?”
I jsut can’t believe that with the amount of spending being done and the taxes that will be required, that we can sustain these levels and the projected rates he is going. His spending on social engineering is dwarfing anything that Roosevelt could have hoped to accomplish.
Yes. Please note my post #5 in this thread.
"A native Ohian and semiprofessional baseball pitcher in his youth, Carey Orr took the money he earned from baseball and enrolled in the Chicago Academy of Fine Arts. After a humble first newspaper job with the Chicago Examiner at fifteen dollars per week, Orr, at the age of twenty-four, joined the Nashville Tennessean as a full-time editorial cartoonist. By 1917, with his cartoons appearing in many national publications, Orr accepted an offer to work for the Chicago Tribune, in which his political cartoons were regularly featured on the front page for more than forty-six years. A crusader for public safety, Orr brandished his pen against gangsterism, waste and corruption in government, prohibition, communism, and President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal. Orr was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 1960." Syracuse University Library http://library.syr.edu/digital/exhibits/c/cartoonists/orr.htm
"Gruff, one-eyed Cartoonist Orr does not hate Franklin Roosevelt either, simply considers him "despicable like a snake." He likes to picture the President as a Red, a would-be Hitler, a gorilla-like monster of Fear, Doubt and Ruin. Other cartoonists consider Carey Orr an exponent of "brute force, which gets reaction not converts." Nevertheless Publisher McCormick continues to play his product day after day on the front page." Oct. 26, 1936 Time Magazine http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,788569-3,00.html
"Orr was one of the more notable conservative editorial cartoonist, and he spent many a cartoon knocking FDR and/or Communism (In another unique aspect of his work, Orr drew his cartoons BEFORE showing them to his editor to be accepted or denied, a very uncommon practice for editorial cartoonists, who usually get sketches approved first). Orr did the comic strip The Kernel Cootie, and his niece, Martha Orr, created the comic strip that would ultimately evolve into Mary Worth, which remains in print today! After returning to Chicago, Orr began teaching cartooning at the same school he went to as a teenager. While there, around 1917, he taught a young cartoonist who never quite made it as a newspaper cartoonist. That cartoonist, by the name of Walt Disney, eventually ended up going into a related field." Comic Book Resources http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/03/15/a-month-of-pulitzer-prize-winning-cartoons-day-15/
:}
My apologies dear sir, I saw the post and liked it, but as usual was just reading through and didn’t take note of who wrote it. I take it you are “silver-lining” kind of fellow. I try to be sometimes, but it does not necessarily always work. C’est la vie.
The Cloward-Piven strategy for overturning a functioning government. These deficits will bankrupt the United States. http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html This means that in order to usher in a complete and long-term-welfare/socialist state, the powers that be must first destroy the existing short-term-welfare/capitalist state.
"The President seized upon a wonderful opportunity in a way that was at once sagacious and dynamic. With insistent determination and great boldness he sought to render the very emergency of the nation, the wreck of business and the fears for the future, the means of establishing his authority and leading both Congress and the country into a more hopeful and resolute temper. In a true sense the public disaster was transmuted into an official triumph for him. But that was because he appeared to the American people to be riding the whirlwind and directing the storm. The country was ready and even anxious to accept new leadership. From President Roosevelt it got a rapid succession of courageous speeches and effort and achievement which inclined multitudes of his fellow citizens to acclaim him as the Heavensent man of the hour."
Indeed. This was posted more than 2 months ago.
Search is your friend.
“just change the names and it still fits today...”
In one case (at least) you don’t have to change the name: “Ickes” is Harold Ickes Sr. who was the father of the current “Ickes” behind a lot of Obama’s marxist policies (he also worked in the BJC administration). His father was a fellow traveler who worked deep within the FDR administration doing much of the same.
IIRC, bubba xlinton & Ickes,Jr traveled to Moscow together?
Yes - that is a fact. I believe that they were roomates at either Yale or Oxford IIRC.
Thanks for posting. That should be required reading for everyone.
Your post sent a chill up my spine and prompted me to email it to several people.
I searched for a number of possible titles and found nothing. Can you provide link to prior?
Thanks
Ok - didn’t search for non-Chicago Tribune titles:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2232052/posts
An aunt of mine worked for the Trib for over 40 years, she was the Boss (manager) of the 'Reference Room' (before computers), and knew 'The Col' personally. He was a hero in our household when I was growing up and the Tribune was THE only paper we were 'allowed' to read.
(The McCormick Place convention center on Chi's lake front is named after him.)
Hey, I missed it two months ago. Thanks for posting it.
Terrific history, thanks. My how times have changed, without changing at all...
BTTT for anyone who may have missed it.
PING!
In cased you missed this!
Obama parties like it’s 1934!
1934 Chicago Tribune Cartoon Asks – Planned Economy Or Planned Destruction?
If you are correct, we're headed for another World War to fix what the chosen one is doing.
Looks like the odds are about 60:40
Amazing, huh? Everything old is new again.
Thanks for the ping Lucy.
Not just our economy. They are hellbent on destroying the Constitution and every last vestige of our FREEDOM.
Worthwhile reading at that link, thanks.
“Tugwell, head brain truster” was a central economic planner in the Roosevelt admin.
“Rex the Red” Tugwell
http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/egd_02/egd_02_00519.html
Richburg – author of the NRA – National Recovery Act, later found unconstitutional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Richberg
Here is something on Wallace (who later became one of Roosevelt’s vice presidents)
http://www.conservapedia.com/Henry_A._Wallace
Harold Ickes – Secretary of the Interior and director of the Public Works Administration.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USARickes.htm
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/WHIHAR.html
Most of these people are associated with Chicago in one way or another.
“The Soviet Union half-dominated world politics for 45 years. Former satellites, especially China, are still kicking. Can’t take that away from them.”
True, but neither can one “take away” the 100-million plus people who died under Communist regimes in the twentieth century, most of them subjects of the Soviet Union, the PRC, Cuba, Cambodia, North Vietnam, North Korea and other such regimes. I for one find it difficult to respect the power of any nation whose achievements - no matter how impressive - are built upon the corpses of countless, nameless victims.
As a conservative trapped in the heart of Indian Country - aka Obama’s Illinois, near Chicago - I cannot help but notice that the Chicago Tribune published this editorial cartoon! How things have changed; that paper was little more than an in-print cheerleading squad for Obama during the election.
Anyone else notice the figure of “Uncle Joe” Stalin hovering in the background? Seeing that, it is hard not to recall that recently, we Americans experienced something I never could have imagined as a boy or a younger man, namely Pravada - the former Soviet news agency - lecturing the USA on the dangers of socialism! Talk abut irony!
“I for one find it difficult to respect the power of any nation whose achievements - no matter how impressive - are built upon the corpses of countless, nameless victims.”
Whether or not it deserves your moral sanction, communist power deserves respect qua power. For power is force, and if not measured in actual violence, then in latent ability to commit violence.
Why capitalism fails:
It’s not just the current administration’s penchant for massive spending, our government has a flawed economic
system that will fail as it already has.
Since the global financial system started unraveling in dramatic fashion two years ago, distinguished economists have suffered a crisis of their own. Ivy League professors who had trumpeted the dawn of a new era of stability have scrambled to explain how, exactly, the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression had ambushed their entire profession.
Amid the hand-wringing and the self-flagellation, a few more cerebral commentators started to speak about the arrival of a “Minsky moment,” and a growing number of insiders began to warn of a coming “Minsky meltdown.”
“Minsky” was shorthand for Hyman Minsky, a hitherto obscure macroeconomist who died over a decade ago. Many economists had never heard of him when the crisis struck, and he remains a shadowy figure in the profession. But lately he has begun emerging as perhaps the most prescient big-picture thinker about what, exactly, we are going through. A contrarian amid the conformity of postwar America, an expert in the then-unfashionable subfields of finance and crisis, Minsky was one economist who saw what was coming. He predicted, decades ago, almost exactly the kind of meltdown that recently hammered the global economy.
In recent months Minsky’s star has only risen. Nobel Prize-winning economists talk about incorporating his insights, and copies of his books are back in print and selling well. He’s gone from being a nearly forgotten figure to a key player in the debate over how to fix the financial system.
But if Minsky was as right as he seems to have been, the news is not exactly encouraging. He believed in capitalism, but also believed it had almost a genetic weakness. Modern finance, he
argued, was far from the stabilizing force that mainstream economics portrayed: rather, it was a system that created the illusion of stability while simultaneously creating the conditions for an inevitable and dramatic collapse.
In other words, the one person who foresaw the crisis also believed that our whole financial system contains the seeds of its own destruction. “Instability,” he wrote, “is an inherent and inescapable flaw of capitalism.”
Minsky’s vision might have been dark, but he was not a fatalist; he believed it was possible to craft policies that could blunt the collateral damage caused by financial crises. But with a growing number of economists eager to declare the recession over, and the crisis itself apparently behind us, these policies may prove as discomforting as the theories that prompted them in the first place. Indeed, as economists re-embrace Minsky’s prophetic insights, it is far from clear that they’re ready to reckon with the full implications of what he saw.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/09/13/why_capitalism_fails/
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