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No way it's torture
World Net Daily ^ | May 19, 2009 | Mychal Massie

Posted on 05/19/2009 11:13:47 AM PDT by jazusamo

It is a misnomer to call the techniques employed in the extraction of information from terrorists "enhanced" anything. They should simply be called "basic interrogation techniques."

The word enhanced, by definition, means to augment with improved, advanced or sophisticated features. Therein lies my complaint in part. Forced nakedness, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, prolonged isolation, sensory bombardment (e.g., prolonged loud music and/or bright lights), scriptural desecration, simulated drowning, i.e., waterboarding, and stressful positions are not enhanced or extreme, nor are they torture.

Torture would be a battery with cables connected to one's more personal or sensitive areas. Torture would be being placed in a stressful position that caused bones to break or legs and arms to pop out of their sockets. Torture is pliers to fingers, hammers to toes, and the removal of teeth by blunt force trauma. Rough interrogation is being beaten until the person is bloodied and permanently disfigured beyond recognition.

Keeping someone awake is not torture, nor is it sophisticated. Keeping bright lights on in a room with the temperature turned up is not torture. It is being made uncomfortable. And the fact that the United Nations, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Lawyers Guild, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the Council of Europe Commission for Human Rights, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch argue to the contrary doesn't make it so.

Understand leftists' dedication to tyranny and tolerance of terror in Jamie Glazov's "United in Hate"

Where were these groups when barbaric Islamic pagans were beheading reporter Danny Pearl and the American contractor Nick Berg? I don't recall the ACLU or the National Lawyers Guild offering demonstrative outrage over that. How many offers did Mrs. Pearl receive from the International Committee of the Red Cross or Human Rights Watch to advocate on her behalf?

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: cia; eit; terrorism; torture

1 posted on 05/19/2009 11:13:47 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

Supreme court ruling on what constitutes cruel and unusual and unconstitutional treatment

>>In Hope v. Pelzer, 536 U.S. 730, 122 S.Ct. 2508, 153 L. Ed. 2d 666 (2002), the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Eighth Amendment had been contravened when prison officials had disciplined an inmate for disruptive behavior by handcuffing him to a “hitching post”, once for two hours and once for seven hours, depriving the inmate of his shirt, exposing him to the sun, denying his requests for hydration, and refusing to allow him the opportunity to use the bathroom.<<

So, yeah, we are way over the line into torture.


2 posted on 05/19/2009 11:15:56 AM PDT by gondramB
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To: smoothsailing; RedRover; Just A Nobody; george76; Lancey Howard

Very well said Ping!


3 posted on 05/19/2009 11:15:57 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
Jesse "the body" Ventura, former wrestling body slammer and Navy seal say's it is torture.

One mustn't waste a great mind, one must listen and take heed. /s

Now where's that feather boa....

4 posted on 05/19/2009 11:18:51 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, Question everyone else)
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To: jazusamo

ANYONE who says dripping water is torture is a liar.

The US Code defined torture in tha `90s and dripping water ain`t it. In face,Congress tried to outlaw it in 2007 but the legislation could not over ride a veto.

ANYONE who says the Japs did the same thing is a liar.

The Japanese used water torture, from pumping salt water into POW`s stomachs to making them eat dry rice then filling them with water and exploding their intestines.

ANYONE who says the Geneva Conventions apply is a moron.

The Taliban and AQ are not signatories.

ANYONE who says Bush should be tried as a war crimminal is an idiot.

The USA are not signatories to the Treaty of Rome.

ANYONE who says the UN Treaty on Torture applies is a fool.

The treaty is so poorly worded one could make use the treaty to charge bill maher and the producers of his show with it.


5 posted on 05/19/2009 11:19:13 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: jazusamo

Agree completely. These are no worse that a typical fraternity hazing at best. As soon as we let it be called torture, we got lumped into the same boat as thugs like Saddam Hussein, who actually did torture innocent people.


6 posted on 05/19/2009 11:22:28 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: EGPWS

I’ve seen Ventura interviewed a couple times recently, I believe he’s “really” gone over the edge. :)


7 posted on 05/19/2009 11:23:53 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Agreed!


8 posted on 05/19/2009 11:25:28 AM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
I’ve seen Ventura interviewed a couple times recently,...

You have my condolences.

I hope your recovery period is a short one. ; )

9 posted on 05/19/2009 11:26:33 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, Question everyone else)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Did we sign the Geneva Convention??


10 posted on 05/19/2009 11:32:54 AM PDT by Peacekeeper357 (This is not a free ride. Become a monthly donor like me.)
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To: jazusamo

I will never cede the moral argument to the ‘progressives’ who never have this country’s safety as a goal.


11 posted on 05/19/2009 11:37:23 AM PDT by griswold3 (a good story is more compelling than the search for truth)
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To: Peacekeeper357

Both parties have to be signatories. Added to that is the language of combatants out of uniform, hiding behind and killing civilians,spies,sabotuers,etc.


12 posted on 05/19/2009 11:37:40 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: gondramB
So, yeah, we are way over the line into torture.

Was this concerning terrorists or people with constitutional rights?

13 posted on 05/19/2009 11:48:39 AM PDT by frogjerk (C-NJ)
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To: jazusamo

Apparently some colleges are experiencing “water boarding competitions”. The winner is the person who holds out the longest.

It’s not torture.


14 posted on 05/19/2009 11:50:04 AM PDT by texmexis best (uency)
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To: Peacekeeper357

No, we did not sign the Geneva Conventions.


15 posted on 05/19/2009 11:50:52 AM PDT by texmexis best (uency)
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To: frogjerk

>>So, yeah, we are way over the line into torture.


Was this concerning terrorists or people with constitutional rights? <<

That ruling was about a U.S. citizen but it defined what is cruel and unusual.

One can argue, as the Bush administration did, that the constitution does not protect against torture for enemy combatants overseas but we can’t very argue that what we did does not meet the American definition of torture.


16 posted on 05/19/2009 11:52:48 AM PDT by gondramB
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To: Para-Ord.45
ANYONE who says dripping water is torture is a liar.

The US Code defined torture in tha `90s and dripping water ain`t it. In face,Congress tried to outlaw it in 2007 but the legislation could not over ride a veto.

ANYONE who says the Japs did the same thing is a liar.

The Japanese used water torture, from pumping salt water into POW`s stomachs to making them eat dry rice then filling them with water and exploding their intestines.

ANYONE who says the Geneva Conventions apply is a moron.

The Taliban and AQ are not signatories.

ANYONE who says Bush should be tried as a war crimminal is an idiot.

The USA are not signatories to the Treaty of Rome.

ANYONE who says the UN Treaty on Torture applies is a fool.

The treaty is so poorly worded one could make use the treaty to charge bill maher and the producers of his show with it.

just figured it was worthy of repeating.

17 posted on 05/19/2009 11:54:57 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (I can spell just fine, thanks, it's my typing that sucks.)
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To: Peacekeeper357
Yes, we are signatories of the Geneva Convention. According to the Geneva Convention the terrorists housed at GITMO are subject to summary execution due to the fact that they are irregular forces not associated with a legitimate government.
18 posted on 05/19/2009 11:57:01 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: gondramB
Here is where I think you go wrong.

when prison officials had disciplined an inmate for disruptive behavior

An inmate is not a terrorist being interrogated. I think there is a big difference here.

19 posted on 05/19/2009 11:58:48 AM PDT by frogjerk (C-NJ)
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To: gondramB

“...Supreme court ruling on what constitutes cruel and unusual and unconstitutional treatment...”

Just an observation, but the unconstitutional part sticks in the craw a bit. If a US citizen was being waterboarded it would be considered unconstitutional/cruel and unusual. An enemy combatant, not in the uniform of a duly recognized national military, and bearing arms against Americans...it is simply interrogation.

None of the techniques mentioned cause permanent damage.

.02


20 posted on 05/19/2009 12:09:36 PM PDT by petro45acp (Power corrupts! Why does hoi poloi insist on electing the corrupt?)
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To: gondramB
once for two hours and once for seven hours, depriving the inmate of his shirt, exposing him to the sun, denying his requests for hydration, and refusing to allow him the opportunity to use the bathroom.

A few differences - seven hours in the sun, without water or a shirt on, could potentially be fatal (heat stroke and sun poisoning). Waterboarding, especially under the extremely controlled conditions in which we practiced it, isn't torture.

Torture leaves long-lasting, if not permanent, scars. Individuals who've been waterboarded show NO ill effects within minutes, if not seconds.

21 posted on 05/19/2009 12:15:44 PM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: Terabitten
...show NO ill effects within minutes, if not seconds

Less damaging than my mother in law's cooking?

22 posted on 05/19/2009 12:33:18 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (Defending RINOs is the same as defending Liberals.)
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To: jazusamo
A terrorist can be waterboarded in the morning and start at shortstop in the afternoon for the terrorist intramural softball team. That's not torture. The scumbag liberals have never served their nation in the military and simply haven't the slightest clue. Here are descriptions of real torture:

Russian commandos describe torture of Chechens

23 posted on 05/19/2009 12:57:34 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
That's not torture. The scumbag liberals have never served their nation in the military and simply haven't the slightest clue.

Torture is not the Right Argument; Geneva Convention Rights are the Right Argument.

Those who where a uniform, identify with a country with Identity tags are covered under the Geneva Convention. And thus they are Exempted by the Geneva Convention from specified forms of Torture.

This reduced the Use of Torture in modern times.

The Convention was extended to those Without Uniforms, Without Country Identification and without Identity tags, by the Liberal with foolish minds.

Professing themselves to be wise, THEY PROTECT TERRORISTS WHO VIOLATE THE GENEVA CONVENTION BY NOT FOLLOWING IT.

The Argument should be about what the Geneva Convention was for and how it SUPPRESSED TERRORISM by Exposing those outside the convention TO TORTURE. DOH!

24 posted on 05/19/2009 1:12:26 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: Lancey Howard

Some years back I read some on the atrocities committed by Mujahideen and Taliban, they make torture a science. Our troops have been subjected to the same type torture before being murdered by Muslim scum in these wars, the RATS make me sick when they speak of EIT’s being torture.


25 posted on 05/19/2009 1:18:33 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

If these clowns can lay down in the street and put on a demonstation of it, and get up and walk away feeling all nice and self-righteous about it; it aint torture.


26 posted on 05/19/2009 1:40:02 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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