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China warns Federal Reserve over 'printing money'
Telegraph UK ^ | 27 May 2009 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 05/27/2009 8:28:25 AM PDT by hripka

Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, said: "Senior officials of the Chinese government grilled me about whether or not we are going to monetise the actions of our legislature."

"I must have been asked about that a hundred times in China. I was asked at every single meeting about our purchases of Treasuries. That seemed to be the principal preoccupation of those that were invested with their surpluses mostly in the United States," he told the Wall Street Journal.

His recent trip to the Far East appears to have been a stark reminder that Asia's "Confucian" culture of right action does not look kindly on the insouciant policy of printing money by Anglo-Saxons.

Mr Fisher, the Fed's leading hawk, was a fierce opponent of the original decision to buy Treasury debt, fearing that it would lead to a blurring of the line between fiscal and monetary policy – and could all too easily degenerate into Argentine-style financing of uncontrolled spending.

However, he agreed that the Fed was forced to take emergency action after the financial system "literally fell apart".

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blingbats; bonds; china; debt; dollar; fed; goldbugs; hardmoneytrolls; money; richardfisher; schifflist; treasuries; treasury
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1 posted on 05/27/2009 8:28:25 AM PDT by hripka
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To: hripka

The Chicoms may be the US citizens best friend right now.


2 posted on 05/27/2009 8:29:28 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: DonaldC

Ironic, isn’t it?


3 posted on 05/27/2009 8:30:39 AM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG 49) "Freedom's Fortress")
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To: hripka
I was asked at every single meeting about our purchases of Treasuries. That seemed to be the principal preoccupation of those that were invested with their surpluses mostly in the United States," he told the Wall Street Journal.

That's because YOU ARE MONETIZING THE DEBT you idiot. Hawk or not, you've got to realize the Chinese can see through "qualitative easement" to the real name "monetizing the debt."

I mean, I know the Fed can count on most people not noticing, but some of us HAVE noticed.

Don't fall for this "Red Chinese" bullsh!t either, they are superb merchantilists and they KNOW a bad investment on sight.

4 posted on 05/27/2009 8:36:14 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: hripka

Bond market dislocation is just around the corner. When that happens, all hell is going to break loose.


5 posted on 05/27/2009 8:38:03 AM PDT by Zeddicus
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To: hripka
[Fisher] has been running a fervent campaign to alert Americans to the "very big hole" in unfunded pension and health-care liabilities built up by a careless political class over the years.

"We at the Dallas Fed believe the total is over $99 trillion," he said in February.
That indeed would be a very big hole.
6 posted on 05/27/2009 8:40:06 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

$99 Trillion....I can’t even comprehend that number. At some point, somebody will have to say stop and that will be it. It will be terrible for those of us going through it, but it will have to be done.


7 posted on 05/27/2009 8:41:58 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: Zeddicus

Watch the TNX (essentially the ten-year Treasury x10).

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/TNX/tab/2


8 posted on 05/27/2009 8:42:13 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: DonaldC
The Chicoms may be the US citizens best friend right now.

And our new masters down the road. "The borrower is the lender's slave."

9 posted on 05/27/2009 8:44:34 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: Zeddicus; All
Bond market dislocation is just around the corner. When that happens, all hell is going to break loose.

My question is, what does one do that has a large chunk of their 401K in a "stable" fund heavily invested in bonds to protect it from wild stock market swings? Ideas anyone?

10 posted on 05/27/2009 8:47:50 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: hripka

The US is the North Korea of Public Spending. Warn us all you want! We WILL print money!


11 posted on 05/27/2009 8:48:17 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: Zeddicus
Bond market dislocation is just around the corner. When that happens, all hell is going to break loose.

Could you flesh out what that means to us laymen?

12 posted on 05/27/2009 8:51:26 AM PDT by Claud
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To: hripka

So the Communists are scolding us on our growing socialist ways? Wonder what they know that we don’t? Let’s go to the tagline for that answer!


13 posted on 05/27/2009 8:52:43 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: DonaldC

Not in this lifetime...China is a communist country and an enemy of this country. It is disgraceful that we have enriched China with our trade dollars so they are in a position to tell our government what to do. A powerful dangerous China is the end result of stupid shortsighted trade policies...that never made any sense.


14 posted on 05/27/2009 8:52:56 AM PDT by nyconse (When you buy something, make an investment in your country. Buy Amrican or bye bye America)
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To: OB1kNOb
My question is, what does one do that has a large chunk of their 401K in a "stable" fund heavily invested in bonds to protect it from wild stock market swings? Ideas anyone?

Several options:

1. You could go cash, in hopes of buying stocks very cheaply in the future.

2. You could go foreign bonds/bond funds if the value of the dollar scares you, as it does me

3. You could go with gold or silver, not the best investment but a good store of value.

4. Just about anything other than US Treasuries, as they are going to get killed.

15 posted on 05/27/2009 8:53:01 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (control the teleprompter, control the world)
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To: hripka
Mr Fisher, the Fed's leading hawk, was a fierce opponent of the original decision to buy Treasury debt, fearing that it would lead to a blurring of the line between fiscal and monetary policy – and could all too easily degenerate into Argentine-style financing of uncontrolled spending.

Fearing it would lead to? The camel's nose was in the tent years ago - the rest already followed, and now he is rummaging through the fridge and sleeping in the bed. The treasury and fed are past the reach-around phase and are hurrying off to Massachusetts for nuptials before birthing and bailing out from the toilet their giant love-turd.

And yes, I understand their motivation - I don't agree with it though. In the view of the economic overlords, the government is essentially purchasing short term political stability at the expense of long term economic solvency. That is the gist of "saving capitalism from itself" - they think they can head off social unrest long enough for the economy to recover, and that the slower future economic growth post-recovery is a better fate than the attendant sociopolitical upheaval in the event that the $7 trillion shield between shit and fan is brought down (at which point, as they point out, we will pay out anyway).

16 posted on 05/27/2009 8:53:03 AM PDT by M203M4 (A rainbow-excreting government-cheese-pie-eating unicorn in every pot.)
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To: Petronski

Qualitative easement or quantitative easement?

Either way, it’s BS. The real name is “monetizing the debt.”


17 posted on 05/27/2009 8:54:00 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: OB1kNOb
My question is, what does one do that has a large chunk of their 401K in a "stable" fund heavily invested in bonds to protect it from wild stock market swings? Ideas anyone?

A better question is, what will you do when the .GOV seizes all private 401k assetts outright and sticks you with worthless IOUs in a new Social Security-type ponzi scheme?

Bonds essentially have no meaning or illusion of security anymore, as the federal government has now demonstrated the will and ability to completely ignore the rule of law and simply ignore the legitimate claims of senior bondholders.

I shut off inputs to my 401k months ago to prevent further loss, and I'm expecting to lose the entire balance, which I'm unable to yank so long as I'm still employed.

18 posted on 05/27/2009 8:56:22 AM PDT by Zeddicus
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To: hripka

$99 trillion???? Even God couldn’t bail us out at this point.

Ammo: It’s the new currency.


19 posted on 05/27/2009 8:56:43 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (http://ccwsaveslives.blogspot.com/)
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To: NeoCaveman

5. Ammo


20 posted on 05/27/2009 8:57:24 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (http://ccwsaveslives.blogspot.com/)
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To: Zeddicus

When a government can decide who gets paid, who it can default on and the legal creditors are told to go uck-fay themselves the investors will return the salute.


21 posted on 05/27/2009 8:57:30 AM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Claud
Could you flesh out what that means to us laymen?

Bond market dislocation would mean a calamitous rise in the cost of credit, literally real wrath of God stuff. The economy grinds to a cliffdiving halt because borrowing/lending comes to an effective standstill.

22 posted on 05/27/2009 8:59:29 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: hripka
he agreed that the Fed was forced to take emergency action after the financial system "literally fell apart".

It just fell apart, for no apparent reason.

Barney did it.

23 posted on 05/27/2009 9:00:32 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: hripka

Pravda prints weekly articles screaming about the failures of socialism. Putin says America is going terribly wrong to nationalize businesses. RED CHINA is telling us that it’s irresponsible to monetize our debt through inflation. They might not continue investing in our bonds, if we cannot be responsible with our fiscal policy. The French president openly, and correctly, calls the US president a child. And im fairly sure hes a Muslim, and a non-citizen.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry. I just want it to stop.


24 posted on 05/27/2009 9:02:05 AM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: NeoCaveman

I don’t think any of those options are available to me seeing the Company 401K plan provides us limited investment vehicles to invest in, with the “stable” bond fund supposedly being the “safest”. It’s either that, or stock funds. I feel trapped and about to watch 30 years of savings go down the tube a couple of years before I could retire early.


25 posted on 05/27/2009 9:02:15 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: Zeddicus

Even a whiff of that nonsense would crash the equity markets here and likely all over the world given the funds that invest in US companies. There would be nothing of any value for them to seize.


26 posted on 05/27/2009 9:03:50 AM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Zeddicus
I shut off inputs to my 401k months ago to prevent further loss, and I'm expecting to lose the entire balance, which I'm unable to yank so long as I'm still employed.

I've thought about that, but hesitate to stop contributions that are matched by my company. I hate to leave that free money on the table. You might see if your company plan has a loan option where you can borrow against your 401K balance and the repayments are deducted from your paycheck over a period of time. Our limit is $50K paid back over 54 months, or 10 years if related to purchasing a house. I'm seriously thinking of borrowing the max to at least get my hands on that part of my money, before the Federal government has a chance to confiscate it.

27 posted on 05/27/2009 9:08:13 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: DonaldC

Indeed, China hold their feet to the fire.

Incredible turn of events...


28 posted on 05/27/2009 9:10:09 AM PDT by EBH (What happened to my Country and how do I TAKE it back?)
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To: misterrob

“I shut off inputs to my 401k months ago to prevent further loss, and I’m expecting to lose the entire balance, which I’m unable to yank so long as I’m still employed. “

I am in the same boat and did the same thing as you in Spring of 08 and even put it all in a money market position, so no stocks or mutual funds for my 401k right now. I still put in a very small amount monthly into my IRA, but the real retirement asset I have is my 401k. I hate letting it sit idle but given the economy the way it is....


29 posted on 05/27/2009 9:13:07 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: Petronski
I truly do not know what is more frightening China warning us about acting too communistic <---------bottom line or empty suit's policies causing a WWIII nukes.
30 posted on 05/27/2009 10:06:25 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: DesertRhino

please I hope it stops. seriously are we in the end times?


31 posted on 05/27/2009 10:07:56 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: DonaldC

IMO< this should be extremely troubling to us. China is under the impression that it can dictate to the U.S. Whether true or not, it’s certainly a wake up call.

How did we get here? Is this where we want to be? Is there need for change to avoid this?

Frankly, it’s just more confirmation of the problems I have been predicting for about fifteen years now. We really screwed up by super-charging China.


32 posted on 05/27/2009 10:12:33 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Obama is mentally a child of ten. Just remember that when he makes statements and issues policy.)
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To: DonaldC
..$99 Trillion....I can’t even comprehend...

I think it goes like this, and somebody tell if I'm on the wrong track, remember how you felt about 20's ( yuppy food stamps, etc.), well soon you'll feel that way about 50's, then 100's, etc..

33 posted on 05/27/2009 10:18:56 AM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: NoObamaFightForConservatives

“please I hope it stops. seriously are we in the end times?”

The endtimes for the US as we know it. A new government has taken power which is totally abdicating US foreign policy goals and more interested in looting the national economy. The US has been rotting from within for years, and we have crossed a threshold.


34 posted on 05/27/2009 10:19:03 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123
I agree.

My mortgage company is a joke and corrupt.

35 posted on 05/27/2009 10:25:04 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: WoofDog123

Are we as a society/people so complacent that there could be a headline even worse than nuke fears of commie rogue countries and people would only be pissed if american idol call in to vote was proved to be bogus or dancing with the stars went off air?


36 posted on 05/27/2009 10:27:28 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: OB1kNOb

You should have a moneymarket type vehicle available....


37 posted on 05/27/2009 10:27:31 AM PDT by Osage Orange (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. - Will Rodgers)
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To: Osage Orange

Thanks Osage. I’ll double check to be sure.


38 posted on 05/27/2009 10:28:58 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: hripka

Yes, only the Chi-Coms and other countries are supposed to print counterfeit US currency...


39 posted on 05/27/2009 10:32:34 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Justice is blind. Sonia Sotomayor is not even qualified to sit on an IMPARTIAL jury.)
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To: DonaldC

What do you mean by that?? Just curious


40 posted on 05/27/2009 10:37:39 AM PDT by lakertaker (Libertarian Party since 1998)
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To: lakertaker

..more like a frememy.


41 posted on 05/27/2009 10:40:09 AM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: Zeddicus

Actually you can pull it out and pay taxes and penalties which average about 50%. Better 1/2 than none. For the record I am not advocating this.


42 posted on 05/27/2009 11:14:28 AM PDT by east1234 (It's the borders stupid! My new enviromentalist inspired tagline: cut, kill, dig and drill)
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To: wafflehouse; Leisler; PAR35; TigerLikesRooster; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; ...
America is in for a real rude awakening.
43 posted on 05/27/2009 11:19:26 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: DonaldC

Yep. They may be putting the brakes on us because our erected officiars can’t.


44 posted on 05/27/2009 11:24:15 AM PDT by b4its2late (There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.)
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To: Zeddicus; OB1kNOb
Things are going to get messy. I expect this to happen:

Gulp: U.S. to lose AAA debt rating?

That will mean higher interest rates and much greater debt. We can cut the blow in two ways: Print, print, print and inflate ala Weimar or raise taxes through the roof to service the debt and regain our rating.

Where does that leave investors? I suppose stocks are somewhat sheltered from inflation as you own a portion of a company (and not the dollar) but under both scenarios (inflation and taxation) the economy (and companies) take a hit. Gold and commodities work too but you don't want to put all you eggs in one basket.
So where then?
Foreign stocks and bonds?
Any particular sectors fair better than others? I would say health care, but, given the push for Obamacare and their behavior with the auto companies and banks, it seems a lot riskier than would otherwise be the case.

Is it any wonder so much investment $$$ is still on the sidelines. Seriously, what reasonable options are there?

45 posted on 05/27/2009 11:28:26 AM PDT by batter (Wolverines!)
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To: batter
Seriously, what reasonable options are there?

Yep. That's my predicament.

46 posted on 05/27/2009 11:31:27 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I'm all for cap & trade. I want to cap government's power and trade it for a conservative one.)
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To: rabscuttle385

I think we are in the calm before the storm. The big waves are headed our way.


47 posted on 05/27/2009 11:31:43 AM PDT by unkus
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To: Petronski
Hey look what just happened to the 10 year treasury.

Not good. Predictable, but not good.

48 posted on 05/27/2009 11:52:26 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (control the teleprompter, control the world)
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To: rabscuttle385; hripka; Harrius Magnus; mojitojoe; Pelham; mom2twinsn2; LongLiveTheRepublic; ...
The Peter Schiff/Redistribution Watch Ping. (Washington Bankrupting our Nation by Spending your past, present and future money!)

Don't you wish you could print your own money? Why would China think Obama/Bernake would do this? Maybe they notice all Obama's spending 'pays for itself' except taxes on that 5%.

Thanks rabscuttle385 for ping.

49 posted on 05/27/2009 11:57:33 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: NoObamaFightForConservatives

My short answer would be ‘yes.’ We are entering what is looking more and more like some near-future science fiction novels in terms of how our society, government, and technology works and interacts.


50 posted on 05/27/2009 12:02:59 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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