Posted on 06/08/2009 6:14:11 PM PDT by MurrietaMadman
On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.
(Excerpt) Read more at gtr5.com ...
Get ready to be flamed!
Would you be just as interested in not letting the anniversary pass without acknowlegement?
Yes, it’s often been discussed on FR.
I think that probably Israel did attack the Liberty knowing that it was an American ship. And I think the reason they attacked it was because Lyndon B. Johnson was using the Liberty to help provide information to Israel’s enemies in that war.
I don’t fault the Captain and the crew of the Liberty for that. They were following orders and doing their job. But I do fault LBJ, who may have been Israel’s worst enemy in the White House until Obama came along. Worse than Jimmy Carter, if that’s possible.
Just my opinion. We don’t know what happened for sure.
Similarly, I don’t fault the U.S. military who fought in the war against Yugoslavia, but I do fault clinton, for fighting that war on the wrong side, against our national interests.
Incoming!
“Suppose on June 8, 1967 your dad accidently backed his car out of the garage and killed your little brother on his tricycle. Would you be just as interested in not letting the anniversary pass without acknowlegement?”
That’s a good analogy.
The NSA raw intelligence which proves conclusively that the Israelis did not know it was a US ship has long since been declassified and made public. Yet the contrary is still asserted. The conspiracy theorists claim it’s all an elaborate coverup by the US government to save Israel from the consequences of a premeditated attack on a US ship. People who hate Israel need no real evidence to support their conspiracy theories.
You forgot to mention that they machine-gunned a bunch of American sailors in life-boats.
And that the only recorded occaision that a Congressional Medal of Honor has EVER been awarded in secret —EVER— was following this ambush....
I read somewhere that the Jews were behind this attack.
It was a 100 miles from its station.
Could be. The way I had read it, the stories from both sides actually there sounded like they were struggling to avoid hide their own incompetence. The sort of story “they had to have seen the flag” weak stuff. But the more I read, it is possible we were feeding the Egyptians.
I probably should have added that I don’t think the Liberty was feeding information to Egypt. They were gathering information and feeding it back to the U.S.
So if the information was then passed on to the other side, that would have been on LBJ’s orders. In other words, if that’s what happened—and it’s not really certain—then the ship was put into an untenable position by their Commander in Chief.
Which is essentially also what LBJ did in Vietnam—putting troops into harm’s way while he micro-mis-managed the war. And they would have won it anyway, given the chance.
Well no matter how the flame war breaks out I just want to say that Captain William L. McGonagle was one heck of a sailor to get his ship back to port despite the massive damage done to her. Had she sunk many of the 177 wounded men aboard would also have been lost.
Wow and to think you didn’t even have an account on here during the Last Anniversary so you obviously couldn’t have shared your views then.
Strange how Isreal is always the boogeyman to some.
Met the CO in the O-Club in Newport RI when I was in OCS in 1968. Noticed the Medal of Honor ribbon and rendered propoer honers - a salute. He told me he wore it for the crew as they earned it. He was a fine, fine man!
Roger that!
Ward Boston jr says all there is to say about accidents http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847861/posts
U.S.S. Liberty [NSA declassified more documents on 40th anniversary]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847390/posts
June 2007)
New revelations in attack on American spy ship
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2027677/posts
(June 2008)
Vets Seek Probe Of Israeli War Crimes (USS Liberty incident)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1420173/posts
(June 2005)
Exclusive: Liberty attack tapes revealed
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1148399/posts
(June 2004)
Strange title for the video considering how it begins with the damaged ship entering port under her own power. Attack on the Liberty would have been a better title.
I read an interesting book about this about fifteen years ago. One theory was that they were attacked because they were where they could intercept Israeli comms and realise that not just the Egyptians were on the menu as they’d told Uncle Sam.
Please provide source for that. Clearly you can, and I'd be interested in reading more as time allows.
“I probably should have added that I don’t think the Liberty was feeding information to Egypt.”
I think the best possibility for that comes from some of the Liberty guys’ own mouths. The “no-explanation for Israeli motive” position is only satisfactory for anti-semites. Either the Israelis did it by mistake, or they did it for a reason. When the Liberty guys touch on that they often bring up Syria, like “they thought we would find out about the attack on Syria and stop them”. The biggest problem about this explanation is that it works better as a deflection. The ship was not near Syria, it was off the coast of Egypt. The Syria explanation is baloney. The Egypt explanation is plausible.
A friend got my interest in this years ago. When I asked “Why did they do it” he was stumped for an answer. But I learned there was a third answer beyond mistake or reason. That answer is because they are Jews. The answer which the Liberty nuts feel, but won’t say aloud. That’s why thier comments are often so dense or insinuating rather than direct.
TWO times the Israeli pilot comes back to his ground control, questioning his orders, "The target ship is American..."
And his ground control two times replies that he was ordered to proceed with the attack.
This reminds me of the anniversary of the jihadi down the street that backed over 299 of my brothers. There was no question of why, not even a chance it was accidental.
10/23/1983.
The ‘Firsters hate it when the Liberty is brought up. But I have noticed that the “we didn’t know” talking point is slowly being replaced with “But they were spying”! Left with no argument, they try to play the anti-semite card.
“But I have noticed that the “we didn’t know” talking point is slowly being replaced with “But they were spying”!”
It’s called a discussion.
Why do you think they did it?
To: F15Eagle; mkjessup; Gene Lalor; All
Recently, Gene Lalor put up a USS Liberty thread and it was quickly taken down. I pointed out that the incident was well explained in the book “The Spymasters of Israel”. Since there have been many USS Liberty threads on FR in the past, I was surprised to find that there are no google hits for “USS Liberty” and “Spymasters of Israel” on Free Republic. So I’m reposting part of what I wrote here for future reference.
THE SHAME OF THE USS LIBERTY Dec 19, 2008 ... You need to read a book called “The Spymasters of Israel”. They detail that the USS Liberty was a signals intelligence ship and that it had ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2151823/posts - 37 minutes ago - Similar pages
44 posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:43:21 AM by Kevmo ( It’s all over for this Country as a Constitutional Republic. ~Leo Donofrio, 12/14/08)
The Attack
After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.
The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.
The Cover Up
Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.
In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf
crinton, carter and lbj. Enemies of the Republic all.
And it looks like I should address the complaints from those who see this remembrance as some sort of support for BO and the muslim brotherhood although I doubt anything I write about regarding my love for all who go in harms way in defense of our Country and our Countrymen would make little sense to those who do not respect freedom.
What could I say to those who refuse to acknowlege Isreal was the personification of evil on this day forty two years ago.
Some have written they attacked because they felt alone, the world was against them and the pressure of the moment overrode their sensibilities. No doubt that’s true. I can appreciate modern Isreali’s perception as being in a tenuous position but as an American I do not think their excuses for a two hour attack on an American naval vessel are valid nor do I think they should they be accepted by any American.
If my comments are interpreted incorrectly it ain’t my problem. To be perfectly clear...
I’m an American who don’t like being attacked by any friend or enemy. Foriegn or domestic.
If you can’t handle that, tough chit.
Wow yerself. I was busy last year with a bunch of illegals.
ACCORDING TO THE BBC FILM LINKED IN POST 17:
Egypt was then rules by Nasser, who was Soviet-equipped and under huge Arab pressure to push Israel around and look tough. The USA did not know how far he would go with Russia —was the whole region to soon become commie?
They didn’t know, but this is what some feared.
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident —in which an NVN PT Boat had supposedly fired on USN vessels — had been successfully exploited as a basis for US intervention in Vietnam, right...? However small and spurrious a justification, the incident had ***Served It’s Purpose***.
So it was to be with the USS Liberty: If she were sunk, the presumption would be that Russian friendly Nasser had been responsible; no longer would the US have to play this delicate balancing act between Israel and the Arabs, but instead would appear to the US public as justified in reliating against Egypt and intervening massively on the Israeli side.
In fact, the film alleged that after initial word of the attack on the Liberty was received, when US “ready planes” (equipped with nukes) were initially launched as a precaution from nearby US carriers, the pilots had EVERY belief that they were en-route to drop NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON CAIRO...!
The last allegation in the film was that in fact 4 high-performance US recon aircraft painted up in Iraeli blue and white DID PARTICIPATE —they performed BDA assessment on behalf of Israel, in order to help make employment of (great) Israeli airpower as efficient as possible.
Remember that these pilots were attacking Russian stuff on the ground, OK?
The sinking of the USS Liberty was hatched with the full cooperation of the US Government as Operation Cyanide, and the only part that went wrong was that....she didn’t sink.
I don’t know if the film was completely true, but this film made me less mad at Israel and more mad at the US Government, which apparently was waiting for all those sailors to die.
Cicero, we are in concurrence. That tough chit comment wasn’t directed at you.
Well they were!
Trouble with the spy business: if you do it right, noöne knows who you are, or what you are doing. Sometimes they are not going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
check out post 35 —the film contained some surprises for me, even though I’ve been reading about the attack for quite some time.
Israeli Pilot Speaks Up
Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.
Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot’s radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
The pilot’s protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.
Key members of the Lyndon Johnson administration have long agreed that this attack was no accident. Perhaps most outspoken is former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer. “I can never accept the claim that this was a mistaken attack,” he insists.
Former Secretary of State Dean Rusk is equally outspoken, calling the attack deliberate in press and radio interviews. Similarly strong language comes from top leaders of the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency (some of whose personnel were among the victims), National Security Council, and from presidential advisers such as Clark Clifford, Joseph Califano and Lucius Battle.
A top-secret analysis of Israel’s excuse conducted by the Department of State found Israel’s story to be untrue. Yet Israel and its defenders continue to stand by their claim that the attack was a “tragic accident” in which Israel mistook the most modern electronic surveillance vessel in the world for a rusted-out 40-year-old Egyptian horse transport.
Despite the evidence, no U.S. administration has ever found the courage to ever found the courage to defy the Israeli lobby by publicly demanding a proper accounting from Israel.
As far as the captain and crew was concerned, they were indeed there to spy —on anyone. To collect and pass on a take for further analysis.
And now I think that our government sent them there on a completely different mission, substantially more secret than anyone on the USS Liberty ever suspected:
To tool around out there AND DIE, like a pawn in a much bigger, international game of chess.
Semper Fidelis, Devil Dog.
You are correct. Captain William L. McGonagle is a hero!
ism’s: The new last refuge of our enemies.
If we stand up to them and face them down.
Just because Capt. Boston alleged that Adm. Isaac C. Kidd was ordered to find that the attack was a case of “mistaken identity” doesn't mean it was not a case of mistaken identity. The captain was over eighty years old when he suddenly decides he helped perpetrate a lie forty years before? I'm not going to believe an admitted liar that was obviously infirm with advanced age.
What or who is behind these continuing false charges that have induced Boston, a naval officer with a distinguished career, to dishonor himself by admitting to have violated his oath, either in 1967 or more recently. Ron Gotcher is only a bit player in a much broader propaganda effort.
The article confirms that "we," Boston and Admiral Kidd, boarded the Liberty and interviewed the survivors and states that "the evidence was clear" but does not state what that evidence was. What evidence was clear? This is the point where Boston makes a leap of faith. He says "we both believed with certainty that the attack was deliberate."
Boston, the lawyer, if he wrote those words, knows better. He could say "I believed" but when he attributes that belief to Admiral Kidd, he violated the hearsay rule and the Dead Man Statute which forbids quotation of a dead man because the dead man can neither confirm nor deny the statement.
Do you really believe an Arab ship would not stoop to flying an American Flag in a desperate attempt continue their treacherous attack on the state of Israel? The US had not reported our ship being in that location and had even been warned away by Israel.
A person would have to be on drugs or have a hidden agenda to believe garbage.
You can go fly a kite JERK.
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