New from Polarick: The Birth Certificate Question

If the skin might be very pale what would a half black infants hair look like at birth?
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Dark and frizzy

Obama on Jan 24, 09 - Kapi`olani Medical Center - the place of my birth

Rainbow Edition News Letter, November 2004 Edition

Gosh, now which account of Obama's birth are we to believe? I suppose Obama's, because he's not known to lie ...

The law making foreign-born adopted children US citizens was created in 2000 and became effective 2/27/01. Prior to that time, the child had to go through the naturalization process to become a citizen. My sister adopted a baby boy from Colombia, and he received his citizenship when he was 8. Our entire family went to the ceremony and watched. It was awesome.

Now Stanley Ann giving birth in Northern Washington state fits all the facts too, but why hide that, or forge a COLB indicating a Hawaiian birth instead of a Washington state one?
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I, like Chief Engineer, think he was born in Canada. I think she was going to give the baby up for adoption, changed her mind, came back to Seattle with the new baby. I think Senior was long gone out of the picture when he was born. I also think Sr. might have taken the fall for the very married Frank Marshall Davis which would explain why he had no interest in little red Barry.

I guess you are on the troll list for a good reason pal.

where’d you get your history from? Clinton WAS impeached...

I was quite excited when I found that document. The instances of birth certificate fraud in this country are so prevalent that the Inspector General’s office studied the matter extensively and published an official report with its findings and recommendations. And to top it all off, he goes a long way toward proving many birther points about the COLB forgery. It just amazes me. Barack Obama used a “breeder” document to obtain the presidency.

Does Obama have a fistful of Maliah’s hair in that top photo? It looks like he’s pulling on her braids and she’s grimacing. Funny.

WTC is a cop and deals with.... “Just the facts mam, Just the facts!”

We all come from different backgrounds. It’s what makes brainstorming interesting on FR.

Hard to keep all those lies straight isn’t it?

Does Obama have a fistful of Maliah’s hair in that top photo?
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ICK!

Whatever. It’s hard to dig out the scrubbed and buried facts when people clog the threads defending. If you think all is kosher then why bother to muddy up the threads and disrupt others?

I need something to hold on to

My money is on The Mossad to bring The Kenyan's birthplace to light.

After the way Israel has been insulted by "Resident" Obama, they could have a lot to gain.

Clearly, the hospital believes that he was born there as well.

Many people and institutions and organizations believe a lot of things. This is not a matter of theory or religion or faith, it is a matter of fact, i.e., it's either true of false. The hospital might like to believe that O was born there, but, in the absence of corroborating eyewitnesses or documents, it is merely conjecture at best.

Notice the contrast with just about every other president in our history, dating back to the eighteenth century, whose birth places are beyond dispute. The same would hold for just about every high ranking US government official down through the years. What are Obama and his friends hiding by not producing dispositive evidence?

There are several possibilities of the theory of Obama being born in Canada. The one that makes sense is that Ann checked into an orphanage to have the baby, perhaps originally to even give Obama Jr up for adoption.

Here's one such location:

Found here: Canadian orphanages
Archived here: ORPHANS' HOME WEBSITE

B.C. Protestant Orphans' Home was located at the peak of King's Road in Victoria, British Columbia. It is still around today but it is called the Cridge Centre for the Family. It was founded in 1873 by Rev. Edward Cridge and closed in 1969 due to changing attitudes of child care. It raised more than 1,600 orphans by the time it closed. There are about 800 of these orphans still living who say it was a great opportunity to be raised here. Most of the records are still held at the Cridge Centre. [CAN]

But then Ann came back across to Seattle to raise Obama Jr, possibly riding back on the ferry, which may have allowed them to get back across the border unregistered and with greater ease. Ann and baby Obama were seen just weeks after he was born in Seattle by one of Ann's high school friends.

I know.
But there are those who see our brainstorming as muddying the thread too....I find it stimulating...makes me think outside the box...and go searching in other aspects.

Know what? I think I was wrong and you are right. I now recall him from another post and he did say he was a cop and he was ripping on BO being gay. I honestly don’t see him being a troll. Just a Yankee cop, like you said.
When you said he was a cop that reminded me of this post. I doubt a troll for Obama would say this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2260830/posts?page=177#177

Hard to keep all those lies straight isn’t it?

Yeah, like that Obama was with the grandparents back in Hawaii. We found out in January that she was WITH Ann (or Anna -- she kept changing her names) in Seattle:

This is Anna Obama phone listing, as listed in Seattle Reverse Directory, 1961-1962.

"Mrs Anna Obama" in Seattle, '61-'62

Of particular note is that 6 lines above Ann's name is "Bernice Payne". For those who may not remember, "Madelyn Payne" was Ann's mother's maiden name.

What are the odds of that? Hmmm....

http://larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com/

Larry’s new book would confirm what WTC thinks. Coming out soon...Here’s the conclusion. (Lucy was it you who spotted a wedding ring on bO’s hand in a picture that would be dated a couple of years before he and MO were married....Not uncommon for the gay men I know.)

Conclusion:
“Regardless of what one may think of me; one thing that no one can deny is: Larry Sinclair has always admitted to his actions no matter what the consequences. Have I lived the perfect life? No. Have I ever blamed my actions in life on others or my surroundings? No. Have I tried to hide my past? No.

If the Obama surrogates/supporters, the bloggers and the internet thugs claim that I am lying is to be believed, can someone explain to me why the massive amounts of time, money and man power that has been devoted in attacking me non stop for more than a year?

I stand by my statements about Barack Obama selling and using Cocaine on November 6th and 7th, 1999. I stand by my statements that Barack Obama engaged in gay sex with me on November 6th and 7th, 1999. I stand by my statements that I was contacted by the murdered Donald Young and the statements that Donald Young made to me.

The bottom line is that no one can say I am not being truthful, because none of you were there. But Barack Obama and his organization know my statements to be truthful. That I personally know and take refuge in despite the continuing threats and attacks.

“The Truth Will Always Set You Free!”

........

“Natural Born Curiosity”. That’s funny. wish I had thought of that

place holder on my phone today BHO vs IG regarding veracity of BC

that’s correct. You absolutely must provide certified BC with a raised seal, etc. You know the drill.

I have posted the requirements and links to the State Department and they are unambiguous about the requirements.

Can’t post them today as I am on Cell phone and it would take to long.

Besides I gotta back to the back and forth with WTC911

trolling along like sweet apple songs, muddy river,...

Roll on Mississippi ...

lol

aw come on enough with the facts.

Clinton was so “Peachy” he cannot even argue before SCOTUS.

Who paid $1 million in punishment he was ordered to pay? /S

There's a "troll list"? What is this, sixth grade?

btw...read your other message and understand completely.

I was born in VA- my husband in PA- daughter in FL- granddaughters in CA. All of us had to have the long form birth certificate filled out before we could apply for a passport. We live in CA. My great granddaughter one year old needed one for going on a cruise to Europe. She had to have a passport long filled out form born in Newport Beach, CA. Her mom & dad both had to be with her when they applied with her birth certificate.(both of them born in CA)
When my husband was flying for a airline he only had the certificate of birth but had to send to PA for long form copy to get his passport.
I don't know about other states not named above but you can check out requirements for passports on their site.

I see you're a medic or have some affiliation with the medical profession. So please consider this information with an open mind. There was no Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu in 1961. The hospital wasn't built until the early '70s....open for business around '74 or '75. There was the Kapiolani Clinic for Women and Children which had been in business since near the turn of the century and it did all the things a clinic would normally do, well baby check ups, vaccinations, minor surgeries and triage, sending serious cases to Queen's or Kaiser hospitals for treatment or women in labor for delivery.

At the time of Statehood in 1959, there were still a lot of home deliveries happening in Hawaii since large segments of the population were plantation workers from the P.I., Japan, China and Portugal and Puerto Rico. Midwives were the norm and the clinic was a gratis or affordable post natal medical facility available to all according to Queen Kapiolani's wishes. The Kapiolani Clinic was established to provide medical aid to them and did stellar and compassionate work assisting the poor.

Queen Kapiʻolani established the Kapiʻolani Maternity Home, where Hawaiian mothers could receive care, as well as their newborn babies. It survives today as the Kapiʻolani Medical Center. Kapi'olani Park in Waikiki was named after the Queen by her husband, Mo'i (King) Kalākaua.

two of my children were born in Virginia. They were issued the short form birth certificates when they were born. We recently used those birth certificates to get them passports, and had no problems. The passports were issued in Atlanta, and both my wife and I had to be present. There were no questions about the birth certificates, and they received passports just fine. I have never seen a long form birth certificate for any of my children. They have all gotten passports without them.

You seem to have a solid knowledge of the Kapiolani history. Are you saying that they didn’t deliver babies in 1961 or that it was not a hospital in 1961? I would find it odd that a hospital would post a letter from BO claiming that he was born at Kapiolani hospital, if the hospital did not even deliver babies at that time. I would guarantee that someone at the hospital would point that out.

There was no hospital in 1961; it was a clinic as in out-patient clinic.

I don't find it odd that they'd publish Obama's letter for prestige and publicity. But it just ain't so.

BRAVO! Truly a classic!!!

“Don’t you just love it when a plan DOESN’T come together?”

Apologia to Hannibal Smith*

*The A-Team, 1983-1987

Good post

!LMAO!,,,He can’t keep his lies straight,,,(shakin’ head)...

WOW

This story disappeared into oblivion because it went to press on Inauguration Day. But it offers information, and additional information to the timeline.

Summary: Mary Toutonghi, a speech pathologist currently operating a private clinic in Soldotna, was living in Seattle during the early 1960s with an 18-month daughter and a husband attending Seattle University. Barack Obama's mother was her neighbor. Toutonghi needed extra pin money, and Stanley Ann Durham needed a babysitter. Thus began the commercial relationship.

She watched Obama a few times a week, for about three hours at a time. Toutonghi doesn't remember how much Dunham paid her, but she does remember what Barack Obama was like at the time.

It tells more about Ann Dunham (mom) and baby Obama in Seattle. It also lends additional credence to being born in Canada, versus Ann Dunham (mom) hopping back and forth in the early 60's between Seattle and Hawaii on the airlines with a baby Obama (There should be aircraft manifest archives in a library or depository if true ...):

Tuesday, January 20, 2009

Obama baby sitter awaits new era — Soldotna woman eager for former charge’s reign

By Jenny Neyman
Redoubt Reporter

On Tuesday, supporters of President-elect Barack Obama looked forward to watching him take the oath of office with a sense of excitement, pride and hope for the future. Mary Toutonghi, of Soldotna, was prepared for that and another sensation: Remembrance of the 44th president as a 7-month-old baby.

Toutonghi used to baby-sit President Obama when she was neighbors with his mother.

Toutonghi was living in Seattle at the time, in the early 1960s. Her husband was going to school at Seattle University, and she was a stay-at-home mom with their 18-month-old daughter.

They lived in a three-story house that had been converted into three inexpensive apartments. Toutonghi and her family lived in the basement apartment, and Ann Dunham — Obama’s mother — lived in the apartment directly upstairs.

Dunham attended night classes a few days a week at the University of Washington, and needed someone to take care of her son.

“The time was available and we were all struggling students. She needed a baby sitter and I said ‘Sure,’” Toutonghi said.

She watched Obama a few times a week, for about three hours at a time. Dunham paid her, but she doesn’t remember how much, Toutonghi said.

“I remember his being very large and very curious and very alert. I don’t remember him fussing, but that doesn’t mean anything. Saying he never fussed is like saying he’s not real. But I don’t remember any undue fussing at all,” she said.

Being a struggling young mother herself, in the tumultuous dawning of the 1960s, no less, Toutonghi said she doesn’t remember many specifics about Dunham.

“I was so engrossed in myself at the time,” she said.

But the circumstances of a young mother living, attending school and raising a baby alone stuck in Toutonghi’s mind.

“It was a tough situation, as far as I knew,” she said. “She was 19, she’d promised her parents that she was going to finish college, even through she’d married. I’m presuming her parents were paying for the schooling — nobody had any money at the time.”

Dunham met Barack Obama Sr., a foreign student from Nyang’oma Kogelo in Kenya, Africa, when she was a freshman at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. They married on Feb. 2, 1961, and Barack Obama II was born Aug. 4, 1961, when Dunham was 18.

Dunham left school to take care of the baby, and returned to Seattle while Obama Sr. finished college in Hawaii and left for graduate school at Harvard University.

“It was interesting, and I don’t know why she was going to school in Seattle and he was in Hawaii at the time. She had told me at one point that because of her husband’s post in the tribe he was going to have to go back to Kenya and marry a black woman, as well. It was a whole different world, so she was accepting of that and hoping she could get back to him soon,” Toutonghi said.

Later, Dunham moved back to Hawaii with her son and filed for divorce from Obama Sr. in 1964.

By that time, Toutonghi had long since moved on to the next chapter in her life. She baby-sat for Dunham for two months, then she and her husband bought a house in the Government Hill section of Seattle and moved there, before moving to Alaska in 1977. She had a long career as a speech pathologist. She’s retired from the Kenai Peninsula Borough School District and has a private clinic in Soldotna.

She didn’t have cause to think about her former charge until 2004, when she came across his first book, “Dreams from My Father.” Then she saw he was the keynote speaker at the Democratic National Convention in 2004.

“Since I found the book, ‘Dreams from My Father,’ when it was first published, then when I was working on the 2004 presidential campaign and realized he was the convention speaker, it blew me away. And then this,” she said.

“I keep thinking of the six degrees of separation, that thing. I’ve known some unusual people in my time, but this was different.”

Toutonghi said she went to school in California with Bob Hope’s kids.

“We were in the neighborhood, essentially. I was not one of the elite group members, by any means, but I remember getting an award once with he and Dorothy in the audience,” she said.

As famous-people stories go, that’s noteworthy. But nowhere near as much as having changed the future president’s diapers.

“It was just mind-boggling to me when he did that Democratic convention, and then was like, ‘Huh,’” she said.

Toutonghi said she often wondered what happened to Dunham, who became Ann Dunham Soetoro after a later marriage, and died of ovarian cancer in 1995.

“We talked, but I can’t say, if I had been really strong friends I would have kept up the relationship. It was interesting to me as I read that book, his first book, I was thinking of his mother, then finding out she had died I felt very badly. I had meant to try to contact her through the publisher, but I didn’t get around to it. It was one of those things,” she said.

Toutonghi said her daughter asked if she had voted for President Obama because she had once baby-sat him.

“I said no. I felt that he had a concern for people as a whole,” she said. “As I thought of the books and things I had read about him and what I knew of that period of time, I think he was very aware of ordinary people and people who were trying really hard to make it. His mother definitely had spoke in terms of concern for people, and I just had the feeling that he must have carried some of that through, and it seems to be turning out that way. I listened to some of the speeches he had made today and he has an awareness of what it’s like to struggle to achieve something.”

She was looking forward to seeing President Obama take office, and not just for the thrill of 40 years-removed fame.

“I just think we’ve been through eight years of hell,” Toutonghi said, referring to the war in Iraq, mounting national debt and the country’s downward spiral into economic recession during President Bush’s administration.

She’s hoping the alert, inquisitive boy she once took care of now takes care of the country.

“I think he’s got a horrible job ahead of him, but he seems to be taking it in stride,” she said.

Uh oh....

Maybe because it is late, but I do not see the name “Toutonghi” in the directory.

Toutonghi said her daughter asked if she had voted for President Obama because she had once baby-sat him.

“I said no...

Sign of the times? Campaign propaganda disappears from central peninsula yards, roadsides

...Several signs promoting Democratic candidates for state and national offices have gone missing this month. Mary Toutonghi, who lives on SoHi Lane in Soldotna, has had problems with her yard signs being knocked over periodically in the two months or so she’s had them out. Then on Sept. 9 she woke up to find a sign for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and one for Democratic U.S. House of Representatives candidate Ethan Berkowitz were gone altogether.

“To me it’s a cowardly act because there’s no discussion or anything, and I see it as an act of vandalism, really,” Toutonghi said.

A Soldotna resident since 1984, Toutonghi has displayed signs for candidates she’s supported for “years and years,” she said. They’ve been knocked down before but never outright stolen.

She related the act to an incident in 2003, when people participating in a peace demonstration at Soldotna Creek Park along the Sterling Highway were doused with water by a man in a truck.

“To me it’s not a democratic form, it is a cowardly form,” she said.

Toutonghi said she reported the theft to Soldotna police, but without any witnesses she doesn’t expect anyone to be held accountable.

“It’s my yard, I put up my signs and they tear them down instead of going the route of putting up their own signs. Or maybe they do have their own signs, but to me it’s a violation of what I choose to display in my yard,” she said.

Toutonghi’s political beliefs are strong enough for her to promote them visually, but she draws the line at interfering in what others believe.

http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/sign-of-the-times-campaign-propaganda-disappears-from-central-peninsula-yards-roadsides-3/

Neil Abercrombie. Susan Blake. Eleanor Nordyke. Barbara Nelson. Mary Toutonghi...what is it they have in common?

Mildly interesting read. Thanks for the ping.

see #289. She’s a liar!

All have deigned to tell falsehood(s) for Barry?

I have to bump that mildly interesting read to a moderately interesting read.

bttt (getting closer)

Wait...Mary tells her daughter that she didn’t vote for BO but had Dem. signs stolen?

Mary supposedly tells her daughter she didn’t vote for Barry just because she changed his diapers way back when ...

Dunham left school to take care of the baby, and returned to Seattle while Obama Sr. finished college in Hawaii and left for graduate school at Harvard University.

Wouldn't it have been easier, not to mention cheaper, to have lived in Hawaii, either with her parents, or her husband? If that is, she was not too far in the doghouse with her parents, and had actually given birth in Hawaii.

After they, the Obama's had that nice little cottage behind the fancy house to live in.. didn't they?

in the tumultuous dawning of the 1960s,

The Dawning of the '60s was not all that tumultuous. We had fresh young President, well we did by the time BHO's "parents" were married. Before that was had staid boring old IKe. (but I liked Ike. :), even though I was only 11 when JFK was elected). Ringo had not yet joined the Beatles, who were playing small clubs in Europe. We were listening to the likes of Elvis, Ricky Nelson, The Marcels, Petula Clark, and the Everly Brothers. Nobody, except the French, had really heard of Vietnam.

I think Senior was long gone out of the picture when he was born. I also think Sr. might have taken the fall for the very married Frank Marshall Davis which would explain why he had no interest in little red Barry.

I suppose it's possible, or it's possible she didn't really know who the father was. But it's also pretty much irrelevant, because the husband of a married woman is, or was, legally presumed to be the father of her children, no matter that they look like the postman. If BHO Sr's name is on the vault certificate, that would pretty well seal it up, legally, absent some real proof that someone else did the dead.

Notice how the second article says BHO lived in Hawaii with his parents until they divorced. But we now know he lived with his mother in Washington state, for at least a year after he was born, and doesn't seem to have returned to Hawaii, until some months after that. His mother took her last classes at U. Washington in the End of the Spring term of '62, but didn't start at U.of Hawaii until Spring term 1963.

Stanley Ann's kids must wear asbestos underwear.

ARE YOU READY? LOTS OF PADDING MAKES FOR A LONG story:

Another Legend who lived on Capitol Hill along with Bruce Lee, Frances Farmer, Kurt Cobain and Jimi Hendrix

Mystery of Barack Obama's first year solved

SOURCE

Baby Sitting Barack Obama on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill by Charlette LeFevre and Philip Lipson Seattle Museum of the Mysteries 1/28/09

Mary Toutonghi, 2009

A simple act of of kindness confirms President Barack Obama residence as an infant in 1962 on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill.

As we were researching the residence of the Capitol Hill apartment that Ann Dunham and her son Barack Obama had lived in 1961 to 1962, (1) - a residence that certainly wasn¹t Abraham Lincoln¹s log cabin but none the less historical, we were also able to find one of the former residents listed in a directory- Mary Toutonghi. Much to our delight it turned out Mary actually knew Ann Dunham and had baby sat baby Barack for two months giving insight on his first year and what it must have been like for Ann Dunham as a single parent.

Mary Toutonghi who now lives in Soldatna Alaska, (2) recalls Barack as ³a really alert baby, very happy and a good size². She does not remember him ever crying (although she adds she is sure he likely did but does not remember any undue fussing). She recalls as best she can the dates she baby sat Barack as her daughter was 18 months old and was born in July of 1959 and that would have placed the months of baby sitting Barack in January and February of 1962.

During our first interview, Mary referred to Stanley Ann Dunham as ³Anna² not knowing that it was the same name as what was listed in the Seattle City Directory. This verified for us that indeed Mary had known Ann Dunham. Anna was obviously confident enough with Mary to have her baby sit her son Barack and confide in her about her future plans. Mary strains to remember the days back over forty five years ago and relates that she did not know why Anna was in Seattle but remembers she was ³anxious to get back to her husband². ³She told me they would be going to Kenya when she finished her education which she had promised her parents when she had married, but because her husband had an obligation to his tribe she realized he would have to take another wife that was a full blooded Kenyan². Mary commented that ³I don¹t think I could have been that brave.²

Mary explained most of the people in the apartment house were Seniors and were retired so it was most likely she was the only one in the house able to baby sit Barack. Mary was a stay at home mother while her husband was taking classes at the nearby Seattle University. She lived directly below Anna and Barack in the level she calls the basement. She remembers the windows in their basement apartment being at chin level and she had a great view of the yard and trees. One day she recalls with laughter, a squirrel had fallen through the one of the ground level windows and after quickly scampering up its tree scolded the family for a good hour.

Mary goes on to relate after we sent her a 1937 photo of the apartment from Washington State Archives, the apartment Anna and Barack lived in was the on the first main floor and the windows looked out over the street. Anna and baby Barack¹s apartment in the photo were the three paned windows on the far right corner of the building above the garage. The main floor had been divided into four studio apartments about 500 square feet each- indeed, a tiny apartment compared to the White House. The first house of Barack Obama no longer exists having been torn down in 1985. An apartment complex now is on the block along with twin residential towers ³Capitol Park² owned by Seattle Housing Authority.

Mary also laughs when asked for pictures saying ³We were in survival mode and not taking pictures². Mary remembers Anna as ³very mature who never complained and met her obligations². Anna was taking night classes at the University of Washington and according to the University of Washington¹s registrar¹s office her major was listed as History. She was enrolled at the University of Washington in the fall of 1961, took a full course load in the Spring of 1962 and had her transcript transferred to the University of Hawaii in the Fall of 1962.

Along with the Seattle Polk Directory, Marc Leavipp of the University of Washington Registrar¹s office confirms 516 13th Ave. E. was the address Ann Dunham had given upon registering at the University. Today, when one looks back to the small apartment in 1962 in which a kind neighbor helped care for our nation¹s leader and a struggling mother strived to get an education, its inspiring to know that even small gestures in the most difficult of situations can help a baby rise from humble beginnings to achieve greatness.

Ann Dunham later received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the Univ. of Hawaii.

Mary Toutonghi now lives in Soldatna Alaska and was 2001 President of the Alaska Speech-Language-Hearing Association.

And one little baby grew up to achieve the audacity of hope.

Permission to copy this article is granted provided full context is posted and credited to authors.

Mary Toutonghi photo courtesy of Mary Toutonghi and Jenny Neyman.

House photo was provided by: Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Branch, King County Assessor Property Record Card collection photograph (1937).

1. Barack Obama: from Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill by Charlette LeFevre, www.capitolhilltimes.com

2. Obama baby sitter awaits new era ‹ Soldotna woman eager for former charge¹s reign By Jenny Neyman, Redoubt Reporter, Soldotna AK, 1/20/09

There was no hospital in 1961; it was a clinic as in out-patient clinic.

That is not what their website says. It says:

For 100 years, Kapi`olani Medical Center for Women & Children has been caring for Hawaii’s children. This legacy of care began in 1909 with Hawaii’s original children’s hospital, Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital. It continues today with Kapi`olani Medical Center.

It also says they built a new facility in 1950 to replace the original 1909 one.