No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Where do you think the Bible came from? You think it dropped from the sky? No, it was canonized by the Church.

So how about those before the Bible was canonized? How about those saved by the revealing of the Protestant, or Orthodox biblical canon?

[Petronski]

The RC/Vatican edifice was politically collected together roughly about the time of the Council’s collaborative decisions about the Canon.

But the Catholic Church was founded by Christ circa AD 33.

[driftdiver]

“if you read St. Paul, the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ on earth”

The Church mentioned by Christ is not the Catholic Church

I’m not part of the Catholic church and my salvation is not dependent on anyones interpretation of the Word.

Jesus saves

[bdeaner]

So how about those before the Bible was canonized?

Your question actually helps to make my point.

Biblical scholars tell us that the last book of the New Testament was not written until the end of the 1st century A.D., that is, until around the year 100 A.D. This fact would leave roughly a 65-year gap between Our Lord's Ascension into Heaven and the completion of the Bible as we know it. The question that begs to be asked, therefore, is this: "Who or what served as the final, infallible authority during that time?"

If the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then since the Church existed for a time without the entire written Word of God, there would have been situations and doctrinal issues which could not have been resolved with finality until all of the New Testament books were complete. The ship would have been left without a rudder, so to speak, at least for a time. But this goes contrary to the statements and promises that Our Lord made about His Church--particularly, "behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world" (Matt. 28:20)--not to mention that He told His disciples: "OI will not leave you orphans." (John 14:18).

This issue is of particular importance, as the first several decades of the Church's existence were tumultuous. Persecutions had already begun, believers were being martyred, the new Faith was struggling to grow, and some false teachings had already appeared (cf. Galatians 1:6-9). If the Bible were the Christian's only rule of faith, and since the Bible was not fully wirtten--much less settled in terms of its canon--until 65 years after Christ's Ascension, how did the early Chruch possibly deal with doctrinal questions without an authority on how to proceed?

The answer is that, of course, they did have authority to proceed. They had the authority that was the hierarchical structure of the Church in which Peter, as See of Rome, was the leading authority -- an authority giving to him by Christ.

[bdeaner]

I’m not part of the Catholic church and my salvation is not dependent on anyones interpretation of the Word.

So you think you can just make up whatever interpretation of the Bible suits you? Are you a relativist? Do you believe the Bible has multiple possible interpretations, or one correct interpretation? Isn't the Bible inerrant and true?

[Petronski]

There are countless truths, donchaknow.

Each as meritorious as the next.

[driftdiver]

“We know it’s God’s Word because the Church said so and it had the teaching authority to make that declaration, because it’s teaching authority was established by Christ Himself through the apostles and apostolic succession.”

The early Catholic church had an impact on the bible. They didn’t write it and they didn’t ‘approve’ it, and they didn’t make it authentic.

The Bible can be traced from Today back to its original writings. IMO the Catholic church should focus more on saving souls than trying to prove they have a unique angle on salvation.

Jesus is the way

[bdeaner]

They didn’t write it and they didn’t ‘approve’ it, and they didn’t make it authentic.

Then, please tell me, how do you know the Bible is authentic? How do you know with certainty that it is the inspired Word of God? By what authority? Did Jesus come down from the sky and hand it to you personally? If not, what makes you so certain that "Jesus is the way"?

[Petronski]

The early Catholic Church had an impact on the Bible.

Of course she did! Sts. Peter & Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, etc....all fathers of the Catholic Church.

They didn’t write it and they didn’t ‘approve’ it, and they didn’t make it authentic.

This represents a 500-year-old revision of 1500 years of history, but it is not accurate.

[driftdiver]

“So you think you can just make up whatever interpretation of the Bible suits you? Are you a relativist? Do you believe the Bible has multiple possible interpretations, or one correct interpretation? Isn’t the Bible inerrant and true?”

Do you think you can invent a fictitious bloodline providing a unique authority for salvation? I’m not anti-catholic but its stuff like this which generates a significant amount of bad blood between catholics and protestants. IMO its Pride talking.

I believe in the Word of God and its one true meaning.

[Petronski]

If not, what makes you so certain that "Jesus is the way"?

God e-mailed the PDF to King James and the printers took it from there.

[driftdiver]

“Where do you think the Bible came from? You think it dropped from the sky? No, it was canonized by the Church.”

The Bible came from Divine inspiration. Many thousands of scholars have studied it in great detail and determined its authenticity.

Cannonization by the Catholic Church is not requirement for it to be true.

[GeronL]

I don’t really have a problem with Catholics. I do like to mess with the Imperial Catholics or else crowd though

[bdeaner]

No, for goodness sake, it was a fax machine transmission! What are you thinking? ;)

[Petronski]

You can bet King James didn’t have one of the thermal faxes that make the pages curl up like scrolls.

Too Jewish.

[bdeaner]

Many thousands of scholars have studied it in great detail and determined its authenticity.

Many scholars have authenticated a lot of books. There is an authentic Koran, the Baghavad-Gita, the Tao Te Ching. Why don't you follow those books?

Because a scholar authenticates a book doesn't make it's contents accurate or true, theologically. Otherwise, we'd have some difficult choices. So why the Bible and not one of these other books?

[driftdiver]

“Of course she did! Sts. Peter & Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, etc....all fathers of the Catholic Church.”

funny

“This represents a 500-year-old revision of 1500 years of history, but it is not accurate.”

not really, keep trying

Show me the word Catholic in the Bible

[Petronski]

The line is probably funnier with a picture of Harvey Korman.

[driftdiver]

“So why the Bible and not one of these other books?”

Because Jesus says so

[bdeaner]

LOL