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Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage (public ‘option’ will be forced? RomneyCare!)
AP via Google ^ | 7/02/09 | RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

Posted on 07/02/2009 3:18:48 PM PDT by Libloather

Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR – 58 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.

In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's annual survey. Senate aides, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said the cost of the federal plan would be lower but declined to provide specifics.

The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines.

The new proposals were released as Congress neared the end of a weeklong July 4 break, with lawmakers expected to quickly take up health care legislation when they return to Washington. With deepening divisions along partisan and ideological lines, the complex legislation faces an uncertain future.

(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhohealthcare; bill; commie; coverage; health; hillarycareredux; romney; romneycare; romneytruthfile; senate; socialism; tyranny
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To: Libloather

DUmmies thought it be free


101 posted on 07/02/2009 9:19:01 PM PDT by GeronL (freeping on a PS3)
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To: Jacquerie

I’m sure that illegals will be followed to the ends of the earth so that the fines they owe will be collected. /s


102 posted on 07/02/2009 10:02:21 PM PDT by HonestConservative (http://web.me.com/pac8185/Site_2/Podcast/Podcast.html)
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To: Libloather
Barry sure wants to set off a Second American Revolution in this country.


103 posted on 07/02/2009 10:16:52 PM PDT by America2012 (No Taxation By An Obamanation)
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To: Ingtar
How do Republicans run ads against an idea originated by a Republican?

Say "Romney's a RINO"

104 posted on 07/02/2009 10:24:52 PM PDT by America2012 (No Taxation By An Obamanation)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

My thought too. This is just one proposal, others fine the employer , poison too.


105 posted on 07/02/2009 11:01:35 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: SandRat

It’s the year 2022... People are still the same.

Mitt Romney’s hair is still the same...


106 posted on 07/02/2009 11:46:20 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Diogenesis

How much Romneycares about sick people...

Romney’s treatment of this poor sick man is sickening...

Watch him just walk away...

Gov. Mitt Romney meets a medical marijuana patient—Oct. 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6UTnS6Z-A&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Econservatives4palin%2Ecom%2F2009%2F03%2Fpalin%2Daddresses%2Dnative%2Dalaskans%2Dand%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded


107 posted on 07/02/2009 11:51:31 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: All; Libloather

The govt. is SUPPOSED to be our public servants, but we are their slaves.

So what are we going to do about this? Any suggestions?


108 posted on 07/02/2009 11:56:26 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Libloather

Interesting that they START OUT saying how much they will gross in fines. Change you can believe in! Yessir./s


109 posted on 07/03/2009 12:28:53 AM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

“I don’t really have a problem with mandatory auto insurance.”

I’ve put $30,000 into car insurance over the decades and have received not one dime back, and you have no problem with that concept. How about if I make you pay my car insurance, you would get no benefit but the gratification of having saved me pumping money down a black hole to support drunk drivers. How does that feel?


110 posted on 07/03/2009 1:48:12 AM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: Jacquerie

“Scotus found the social security and progressive income taxes to be constitutional about 70 years ago. “

FDR knew what he was doing when he “stacked the deck”.

Read: MEN IN BLACK by Mark Levin


111 posted on 07/03/2009 3:12:28 AM PDT by poobear
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To: poobear
Read: MEN IN BLACK by Mark Levin

I have a first edition copy in my hands. Great read.

112 posted on 07/03/2009 5:17:41 AM PDT by Jacquerie (The sole legitimate purpose of government is to secure our unalienable, Natural Rights.)
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To: long hard slogger; FormerACLUmember; Harrius Magnus; hocndoc; parousia; Hydroshock; skippermd; ...


Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this ping list.

**This is a high volume ping list! (sign of the times)**


113 posted on 07/03/2009 5:24:31 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Libloather

114 posted on 07/03/2009 6:37:37 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Too sick for words!)
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To: Jacquerie
Gave a copy to a couple of libs and they just grinned. They don't care if interpreting the Law of our Land with bias opinion's to push their liberal agenda is Unconstitutional.
115 posted on 07/03/2009 6:43:39 AM PDT by poobear
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To: poobear

I’m not sure when it occurred to me, but not long ago figured out that Truth to libs is that which advances their goals. Their ideology shields them from inconvenient facts.

It must be nice I suppose to be so unencumbered.


116 posted on 07/03/2009 6:50:16 AM PDT by Jacquerie (The sole legitimate purpose of government is to secure our unalienable, Natural Rights.)
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To: Libloather

Our freedoms are being taken away.


117 posted on 07/03/2009 6:59:09 AM PDT by b4its2late (Ignorance allows liberalism to prosper.)
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To: FastCoyote

I presume from your comment that you have no idea how insurance works.


118 posted on 07/03/2009 7:18:36 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government -- Thomas Payne)
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To: Libloather

MARCH ON WASHINGTON!!!!take ur health plan and shove it ...I’m nort paying no fine!!!


119 posted on 07/03/2009 7:31:36 AM PDT by angelcindy
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To: Jacquerie
“It must be nice I suppose to be so unencumbered.”

Unencumbered doesn't even come close. They don't give a rat @ss about anyone or anything as long as their agenda marches on. Yet... they claim be to the moral conscience of us all.

-!

120 posted on 07/03/2009 7:51:58 AM PDT by poobear
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To: Libloather

I wonder what this will do to the many people who are members of Christian “health sharing” groups such as Samaritan Ministries. It’s not technically health insurance.


121 posted on 07/03/2009 8:35:49 AM PDT by Columbo (Just one more thing....)
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To: b4its2late

Our freedoms have been taken away gradually over the years as hospitals cannot refuse emergency treatment, and more and more is done for the uninsured, all on the insureds backs.

There is ALREADY, and has been for some time, socialized medicine in the US. We don’t let someone with a compound fracture bleed to death on the street.

Now we’re just trying to figure out a better way to pay for it. I don’t like this one, but I also can’t figure out another! I do like the Maryland law that lets kids stay on insurance till age 25. That keeps a lot of them insured, with Mom and Dad paying, that would ordinarily “wing it”.

I think I could be convinced to accept mandatory super-high-deductible insurance. Then the hospital could come after the patient for the first $10,000 or so, and the rest out of an insurance plan.

All this shouting about freedom goes away when it’s you with the broken leg.


122 posted on 07/03/2009 8:54:23 AM PDT by jaybee
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To: Pearls Before Swine

You have nailed one of the big fraud potentials of 0b0z0 Care, the illegals who will probably be covered:

“So, let’s see: An illegal alien doesn’t join a program and shows up at the emergency room. Will anything change under the new bill (aside from other initiatives which will make him a citizen and give him the money to join a program as part of his welfare)?”

With estimates of 10 to 40 million illegals in America, this could become an even bigger nightmare:

40 million illegals, where does that come from: http://www.theamericanresistance.com/ref/illegal_alien_numbers.html


123 posted on 07/03/2009 9:00:32 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foreign/domestic terrorists, or tax cheats?)
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To: Libloather; SandRat; Liz; BIGLOOK; BOBTHENAILER

This was on Fox News this morning and in our local fishwrap.

My trophy wife and I had to laugh while thinking about those who voted for 0b0z0 and 0b0z0 care because they thought that it would be free and provided by us.

California is loaded with workers, who opt out of any health insurance coverage. They voted for 0b0z0 and his Ob0z0 care because they thought that it would be free for them. Wrong!


124 posted on 07/03/2009 9:07:14 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foreign/domestic terrorists, or tax cheats?)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

My friend, you need to understand that illegal aliens will be EXEMPT. Obama is going to give them all full DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY! LOL.


125 posted on 07/03/2009 9:09:51 AM PDT by 2harddrive (then)
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To: Grampa Dave
'O' Bozo plans


History: Penned in 1947

126 posted on 07/03/2009 9:28:32 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: SandRat

0b0z0 has done his history on FDR and Harry Truman re socialism for America.


127 posted on 07/03/2009 9:39:04 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does Zer0 have any friends, who are not criminals, foreign/domestic terrorists, or tax cheats?)
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To: ActrFshr

If we do nothing more than stop spending our tax dollars on health care, and instead require that people pay for their own health care, the health care costs will drop, and the country would save billions in tax dollars.

Of course, we are never going to get rid of medicare, which presumably was paid for by the people getting it now (through the 1.45% medicare tax). We would have to get rid of that in order to really keep government out of the health care business.


128 posted on 07/03/2009 11:00:55 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: kingu
Is there a particular part of the Constitution that establishes federal medical care for the public?

None that I can see. That's why I oppose it. But we are pretty much stuck with Medicare, which supposedly is paid for by every citizen through our medicare taxes, and then given back to us when we retire, just like Social Security.

I would forgo the coverage I've paid for for over 30 years, in order to get the government out of health care. But many people feel rightly entitled to the health insurance they paid the government for throughout their lives.

However, given that we don't want our tax dollars paying for everybody's medical care, how do we deal with people who get sick and can't pay for their own treatment?

We simply will not (not "can not", and not "should not", but "wil not") leave them to die in the street in front of our hospitals.

So instead, the proposal is to require health insurance -- so we no longer have to worry about people not being able to get treatment, since they will have coverage. But there is no government authority to force people to have health insurance. Many states require car insurance, but driving is not a right (for some strange reason), and the requirement is for coverage for people you HIT, not your own car.

So, if we allow people to opt out of required insurance, by signing away their right to expect free treatment, then when they are dying in the street in front of the hospital, we can say "look, that is what they chose, while others were paying for insurance they were buying big screen TVs and taking expensive vacations, and now they are paying for their choice with their life".

Currently, some of us work hard and buy insurance, and our medical dollars pay not only for ourselves, but for illegal immigrants and U.S. citizens who spend their money on luxuries and then expect others to pay for their medical treatment. That is the problem we need to solve -- the ability of poeple to leech off of others.

129 posted on 07/03/2009 11:09:57 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Grampa Dave
You have nailed one of the big fraud potentials of 0b0z0 Care, the illegals who will probably be covered:

The two big issues that are never discussed are (1) what will be done about those who won't pay or play, and are untouchable through the tax code (i.e., illegals and drifters), and (2) what will happen to medical tort reform, if anything. You could save so much money if you did the second that you could (although you shouldn't) pretty much afford the first.

Think about it: A doctor's defense against not ordering sufficient tests will become the government's treatment card of what he is allowed to order. And, its tough to sue the government.

130 posted on 07/03/2009 11:34:41 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really necessary?)
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To: erkyl
And car insurance is mandatory in most states. I guess they figure this is the same thing.

Car insurance is optional in every state.

131 posted on 07/03/2009 11:42:41 AM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: gitmo

Liability insurance is required in Texas. Proof of insurance is required for paying tags, and now they have passed a law that they will impound your car if you don’t have it.


132 posted on 07/03/2009 11:52:12 AM PDT by erkyl (We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office --Aesop (~550 BC))
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To: Raycpa

No you don’t get it you will have to pay the fine AND join the Gubmint plan.


133 posted on 07/03/2009 12:16:27 PM PDT by lakeman
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To: jaybee

It’s an unconstitutional, illegal federal power grab! More federal government intrusion into our lives is NEVER the solution to ANY problem. Federal intrusion IS the problem! Get the government OUT of our lives and OFF our backs!!

This is AMERICA, dammit! We are AMERICANS!! We are a FREE people!! We defend and FIGHT for our FREEDOM against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC!! Always have, always will!!

Suck it up and quit whining about the “unfairness” of it all. That’s for liberal wimps, losers and slaves!! Fight for your freedom and the freedom of your posterity!! That is YOUR constitutional duty as an American and responsibility as a man!!

Those who go along with this kind of treasonous horseshit are the enemy within!!

Nationwide TEA Party this weekend!! Be there!!

DONT TREAD ON ME!!


134 posted on 07/03/2009 12:32:19 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jimrobfr)
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To: Libloather

so much for his campaign promise to make health care something that people could have or not take, it was going to be voluntary.
I guess it still is in Obama’s eyes, you can take the health care and pay the fees they impose or you can voluntarily pay the fine for not doing like a good little citizen of the world and doing what he says is best for you.

Our founding fathers are turning over in their graves right now.


135 posted on 07/03/2009 12:47:14 PM PDT by Munz ("We're all here for you OK? It's a circle of love" Rham Emanuel)
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To: erkyl
And car insurance is mandatory in most states. I guess they figure this is the same thing.

They figure wrong, of course. I have choices with cars. I can buy a cheaper car (lower ins rates), I can buy a car with better crash ratings (lower), I can get none or fewer tickets (lower). Or I can own no car and pay nothing, and the government doesn't fine me for that.

The GOP is getting dumber (hard to believe). BHO is handing them so may beautiful hot button issues that would love 30 or 60 second spots. Billboards, too. And they are doing absolutely nothing. They could cream the Dems in the public arena. They can't outvote the Dems in congress, so they roll over and lick their [very small] stones.

It's not difficult to see how some people see them as throwing the election. It's almost easier to believe in a conspiracy than to swallow the notion that these people could be so incredibly STUPID AND GUTLESS.

136 posted on 07/03/2009 1:38:16 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: gitmo
Car insurance is optional in every state.

List at least 10 states

It is mandatory in FL and Ky. There is a minimum required coverage, you have the option of increased coverage above that.

137 posted on 07/03/2009 1:44:10 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Libloather

Outrageous.


138 posted on 07/03/2009 2:14:24 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Au contraire. Lots of people in those states legally have no auto insurance.


139 posted on 07/03/2009 2:16:51 PM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: gitmo
Lots of people in those states legally have no auto insurance.

By "those states" do you mean KY or FL? Because if you own a car it must, by law, be registered and insured. Unless it is parked inside a building/garage. If it is in a driveway, i.e. visible, it is supposed to be tagged and insured. You can't get a tag without proof of insurance.

You cannot *legally* own an auto that you drive on the street in FL without insurance.

140 posted on 07/03/2009 2:50:48 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: gitmo

The excerpt below taken from:http://www.carinsurance.com/kb/content20009.aspx

Car Insurance Question Do all states require car insurance?

No, all states do not require car insurance but they do require financial responsibility to operate a vehicle on the roadway. While not all states require drivers to buy liability insurance to show financial responsibility, 48 states (plus Washing DC) do. These states do not have compulsory auto insurance liability laws:

1. New Hampshire
2. Wisconsin

All 50 states have different requirements when it comes to auto insurance and the minimum insurance requirements. Almost every state requires you to have Bodily Injury Liability insurance and every states has financial responsibility laws that require you be able to have sufficient assets to pay for any liability you cause in an incident.

In some states, drivers can’t register a car without showing proof that they have liability insurance, while other states only need proof of insurance when a driver has an accident or gets tickets. If you visit this free car insurance quote page and select your state, you can see the Minimum Requirements.

Every state requires insurance or that you meet financial responsibility requirements through a bond or some other way which shows you are able to pay if you cause damages to another person or property in an automobile accident. Each state changes and/or renews their laws annually, so some states that had no insurance requirements in the past now do. New Hampshire probably has the least amount of requirements.


141 posted on 07/04/2009 6:21:30 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Libloather
The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines.

Otherwise known as Democrats...

142 posted on 07/04/2009 7:38:21 AM PDT by Onelifetogive (See www.buyingapuppy.com for News on Dogs and Puppies)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Many people don’t drive cars. They are not mandated to have auto insurance. No state has a mandatory car insurance law.


143 posted on 07/04/2009 11:07:05 AM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Many people don’t drive cars. They are not mandated to have auto insurance. No state has a mandatory car insurance law.

That’s why Obama’s and Romney’s mandates are so insidious. They are requrining this of everyone. Unlike auto insurance that is required only for people who choose to participate in driving.


144 posted on 07/04/2009 11:11:20 AM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: gitmo
That’s why Obama’s and Romney’s mandates are so insidious. They are requiring this of everyone. Unlike auto insurance that is required only for people who choose to participate in driving.

That was my point also, from the beginning. In addition, though we are required to have car insurance, we are not required to use/buy government run auto insurance.

A point that is usually omitted by the advocates of NHS, if it is so great, why must the government threaten us with financial (and other) penalties to coerce us to use it?

145 posted on 07/04/2009 12:50:35 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: blueplum
THIRTY-SIX BILLION..!!! in 10 years!!!

Apparently they expect lots of folks to pay this fine...

146 posted on 07/04/2009 2:56:35 PM PDT by Osage Orange (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. - Will Rogers)
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To: TXnMA
Well...I guess you could have been like my father.

He was self-employed much of his adult life and passed away days before his 64th birthday.

He never saw a dime of his SSI monies...and he had to pay in DOUBLE because he was self-employed.

147 posted on 07/04/2009 3:09:05 PM PDT by Osage Orange (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. - Will Rogers)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
My insurance agent told me...that 1 out of every 3 drivers here in OK....does NOT have car insurance.

Mandatory my hindfoot.......

148 posted on 07/04/2009 3:19:34 PM PDT by Osage Orange (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. - Will Rogers)
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To: Libloather

It doesn’t matter if we already have car insurance mandates.

Yes, people don’t need to have cars, but it is absurd to force people to pay for what they might do on the road. If you want to be safe buy insurance for yourself. If you cannot afford insurance for yourself then you couldn’t anyway.

People can be sued for crashing into you or at least should be able to. But if they are too poor to be sued, they are probably too poor to buy insurance, however that doesn’t mean that it should be illegal for them to own a cheap car that they once in a while use to buy FOOD.

Car insurance is absurd. Absolutely absurd. Risks similar in measure to crashing into someone exist in many vocations and simply in everyday life. We should not be presumed to be ticking time bombs who have to pay for the privilege of going about our daily lives.

If you think driving on the road is unsafe. DON’T DRIVE. DON’T FORCE EVERYONE ELSE TO PREPAY INTO A FUND IN CASE THEY HIT YOU.

Also, make murder committed while drunk equal to first degree premeditated murder as it should be because it is.


149 posted on 07/04/2009 3:50:00 PM PDT by evandi
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To: Osage Orange
[My father] never saw a dime of his SSI monies...and he had to pay in DOUBLE because he was self-employed.

And you and your family (presumed inheritors of your dad's "estate") are that much the poorer for it. Your dad was smart enough to run his own business; he certainly was smart enough to have gotten a better return on his lifetime "investment" than the 'guvocrats' did -- especially when they were 'spreading his wealth around' to the 'less fortunate' (read, "lazy"). And, since they stole his entire principal and "interest"...

Socialized medicine will be far worse -- just look at any emergency room in an area that is already infested with wetbacks...

~~~~~~~~~~~

Enough -- gotta watch my blood pressure! ;-) Have a great Fourth!

150 posted on 07/04/2009 7:17:40 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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