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T. Rex Teeth Take a Bite Out of Evolution
ICR ^ | July 17, 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 07/17/2009 9:28:19 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

A set of fossilized Tyrannosaurus rex teeth was found in a rock layer that it had no business being in, according to evolutionary interpretations. Discovered in Hyogo, Japan, the teeth came from a 15-foot-tall dinosaur entombed in early Cretaceous rock, supposedly deposited 140 million years ago.

The problem is that T. rex dinosaurs of this large size are not supposed to have evolved until about 30 million years later. Thus, what is “known” about dinosaurs must undergo drastic revision.[1] Haruo Saegusa, a curator at the Museum of Nature and Human Activities, recently told JapanToday, ‘‘If the dinosaur belongs to the same era of the strata [early Cretaceous], the tyrannosaurus could have started to grow larger much earlier than previously thought.’’[2] The thought seems to be that merely adjusting evolutionary development backward will be enough to make the fossil fit the strata.

But the very concept of strata representing “eras” does not come from the strata themselves. That concept began with eighteenth-century French naturalist Georges Cuvier, and it has been in vogue ever since, despite the fact that it causes more problems for interpreting rock strata than it solves, and stands in stark contrast to scriptural history. Young-earth creation geologists have long held that most sedimentary strata—including the Cretaceous layer in which these teeth were found—resulted from waterborne deposits during Noah’s Flood that may harbor fossils from a particular local environment, but do not represent a particular “era.”

The assignment of a certain number of “millions of years” to a rock formation does not derive from the strata either. It is another assumption that is used to prescribe what constitutes “valid” interpretations.

Radioisotope dating is used to bolster the vast time spans ascribed to the geologic record. However, geologist John Woodmorappe cogently revealed that the radio dates are actually hand-picked to coincide with the dates already assigned from the geologic column diagram. ICR’s RATE research also conclusively demonstrated with independent lines of evidence that radioactive decay rates, widely used to bolster deep time, were dramatically accelerated in the past.[4]

Many other natural processes—like the recession rate of the moon, the decay of earth’s magnetic field, or the diffusion of helium from zircon crystals in granite—can be used, along with some basic assumptions, to measure the age of the earth, but these methods give maximum dates that are incompatible with evolutionary time spans.

Thus, the nineteenth-century strata/age/era correlation is in serious trouble. However, an oversized T. rex found in the “wrong age” and the “wrong time” doesn’t surprise creation scientists. If the rock that these T. rex fossil teeth was found in was indeed deposited during the year-long Noahic Flood, then it is easy to explain why a large dinosaur is found mixed in with smaller ones.

There never was an “era of smaller T-rex dinosaurs,” but there was an unimaginably massive Flood that wiped out whole environments, layering and sorting sediments and fossilizing the creatures buried therein.

References (for ref. links, go to original--GGG)

1. For recent examples of drastic evolutionary revisions, see Sherwin, F. The Devastating Issue of Dinosaur Tissue. ICR News. Posted on icr.org June 1, 2005, accessed June 25, 2009; Thomas, B. Data Derails Dinosaur Dominance Idea. ICR News. Posted on icr.org September 18, 2008, accessed June 25, 2009; Thomas, B. Dinosaur Fossil Erases 40 Million Years. ICR News. Posted on icr.org June 23, 2008, accessed June 25, 2009. 2. Teeth of tyrannosaurus ancestor dating back 140 mil years found in Hyogo. JapanToday. Posted on japantoday.com June 20, 2009, accessed June 24, 2009. 3. Woodmorappe, J. 1999. The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods. El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 27-49. 4. Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth (RATE). Posted on icr.org.

* Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Japan; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; catholic; christian; creation; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; science
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To: kingpins10

*Are you willing to bet your soul on radiometric dating?*

That is a scare tactic. You are trying to scare people with the threat of punishment in hell if they have a different opinion than yours.

As a debate tactic it is a very cheap one.


51 posted on 07/17/2009 10:27:17 AM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
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To: xcamel

Are you telling me that it is wrong to study the facts? That it is wrong to purchase and read books on issues?
That it is wrong to question?
Science does that everyday.


52 posted on 07/17/2009 10:27:43 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: 05 Mustang GT Rocks

Most of the Cretins wouldn’t recognize science if it bit them on the a##.


53 posted on 07/17/2009 10:28:43 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: kingpins10

*When science tells me a rock that is known to be 200 years old from a volcanic eruption is 4.5 million years old according to radiometric dating*

It isn’t like their is an energy to matter convert making new rock under the volcano. You seam to be expecting that the molten rock gets its age reset the moment it breaches the surface when that isn’t the case.


54 posted on 07/17/2009 10:28:55 AM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
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To: metmom

Oh, and the IDers would allow evidence that doesn’t fit their Theory (ie ToC) to be trumpeted?

NOT.


55 posted on 07/17/2009 10:29:07 AM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: DevNet

It’s not cheap. It’s fact.

Radiometric, along with carbon dating is flawed.

The truth is we have no reliable way of looking at matter and telling it’s exact age.


56 posted on 07/17/2009 10:29:26 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10

It isn’t a fact that using radiometric dating will doom your soul to hell.

You didn’t say that radiometric dating was simply wrong, you came out and strongly implied that using it would send you straight to hell.


57 posted on 07/17/2009 10:31:50 AM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
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To: DevNet

You seem to have missed the point.

Radiometric dating estimated it to be 4.5 million years old, when in fact it was 200. This is the ‘most reliable’ way of estimating age we have.


58 posted on 07/17/2009 10:32:54 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: DevNet

That’s not what I implied.

I implied that it is flawed and why would someone rely on an assumption, at best.


59 posted on 07/17/2009 10:35:38 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: DevNet

Well, in a manner of speaking, maybe he/she was speaking the Truth.

How so you ask?

OK, let’s say something is discovered, and carbon dating or radiometric dating accurately proves that the IDer’s theories are nothing but hooey, can you imagine the ear shattering whineing and moaning....?

That, my Friend, would be Hell!

Therefore, in using radiometric dating or carbon dating would, indirectly, send you straight to Hell.


60 posted on 07/17/2009 10:36:07 AM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: 05 Mustang GT Rocks

I prefer to think of them as moths to a flame :o)


61 posted on 07/17/2009 10:36:37 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Moonman62

And there was no mention of ice cream in the article. QQ


62 posted on 07/17/2009 10:37:48 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: ConservativeDude

I think you should forward it to them anyway, with a link to the original exchange!


63 posted on 07/17/2009 10:38:30 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged
Then when some data comes along that doesn’t fit in with their conclusions, they panic or dismiss the data.

From the article:

‘‘If the dinosaur belongs to the same era of the strata [early Cretaceous], the tyrannosaurus could have started to grow larger much earlier than previously thought.’’
It seems they are taking the proper scientific action in considering the alteration of previous conclusions based on new evidence. This is how science works to better describe the world, or we'd still be thinking the Earth is flat.
64 posted on 07/17/2009 10:44:13 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: kingpins10

Religious dogma doesn’t allow for change, no matter what the evidence says.

Ask Galileo.


65 posted on 07/17/2009 10:48:27 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: kingpins10

Nice try... no soup for you.


66 posted on 07/17/2009 10:50:44 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: DevNet

Well then allow me to extrapolate a little more with this idea. The earth is 4.5 billion years old according to radio isotope dating - right? But the rocks on the earth vary from millions, to hundreds of millions to a much as 3.5 billion - right? And these differently aged rocks all combined through accretion to make the earth - right?

Wait, could there possibly be something wrong with these theories?!?!?


67 posted on 07/17/2009 10:51:12 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: Bobkk47

Ask science. Scientists used to believe the earth was flat.

The true dogma is with some whose minds are not ‘truly’ open to all.


68 posted on 07/17/2009 10:51:28 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10
"Science has no 100% reliable way of telling the age of fossils."

My statement had nothing to do with age or chronology. The conundrum is presented is why would God create and then eliminate a significant number of species outside of the framework of theistic evolution?

69 posted on 07/17/2009 10:51:49 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: xcamel

That’s the best you can come up with? Risible.


70 posted on 07/17/2009 10:52:21 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: metmom

Well? Got a factual response to post #26? No. Didn’t think so.


71 posted on 07/17/2009 10:53:00 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: BrandtMichaels

*Wait, could there possibly be something wrong with these theories?!?!?*

There is something possibly wrong with every theory.


72 posted on 07/17/2009 10:53:23 AM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
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To: kingpins10

Your “truth” is wrong. Multiphase radiometric dating is very accurate. You however are flawed.


73 posted on 07/17/2009 10:53:32 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: kingpins10

It is far more than you deserve.


74 posted on 07/17/2009 10:54:26 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: kingpins10

And when science proved the earth was round, and not terracentric, the “faith” refused to accept it for 500 years. Seems your “open mind” got filled with a great deal of crap.


75 posted on 07/17/2009 10:57:09 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: GodGunsGuts

When will these dinosaurs learn to die in the right time period? They are behaving just like a bunch of teenager instead of the older object they seem to be.


76 posted on 07/17/2009 10:57:33 AM PDT by handy old one (It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle)
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To: Natural Law

Some things we do not know for certain. In fact, science estimates mankind has less than 1% of all knowledge.

Dinosaurs could’ve destroyed themselves. How and why they became extinct is really irrelevant to the repetitive nature of man’s problems today. All will be known one day.


77 posted on 07/17/2009 11:00:00 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: xcamel

When you say “faith”, you are referring to the catholic church, correct ?


78 posted on 07/17/2009 11:01:06 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: xcamel

Wow! Hate is not necessary. Let’s keep this civil. Can you do that ?


79 posted on 07/17/2009 11:03:16 AM PDT by kingpins10
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Comment #80 Removed by Moderator

To: xcamel

“Radiometric dating is accurate”

I would suggest you do more reading on that issue. Their 3 main assumptions are not reliable.


81 posted on 07/17/2009 11:05:02 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10
Dinosaurs could’ve destroyed themselves.

Some theories:
Smoking
Driving SUVs
High fructose corn syrup

82 posted on 07/17/2009 11:05:05 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Natural Law

Not exactly. I do believe that what is claimed for evolution is actually devolution. And the study of DNA backs this up. Micro-evolution represents a loss of information - not a gain. Macro-evolution is a fairy tale of epic proportions!


83 posted on 07/17/2009 11:06:11 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: kingpins10

If you can’t correctly frame the concept of “hate” in your mind and articulate it, you most certainly can’t get your head around evolution, or any science for that matter.


84 posted on 07/17/2009 11:07:28 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

Have you noticed how things left to themselves tend to go to the lowest common denominator and at a high rate of speed??


85 posted on 07/17/2009 11:08:38 AM PDT by handy old one (It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle)
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To: kingpins10

...And you seem unable to quote someone accurately. Such a shame.


86 posted on 07/17/2009 11:09:34 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

I have studied it extensively.

You just cannot see that you insult people to cover up your lack of obvious study in these matters. This will be my last post to you on this issue since you cannot be civil.

Good day.


87 posted on 07/17/2009 11:09:36 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: ConservativeDude
"i hope we get the name calling done with quickly on this thread"

The screeching will prevail because revealing information like this is like pouring sulphuric acid on the foundations of evolution. The harpies here, are placed here for the express purpose of deflecting the truth.

88 posted on 07/17/2009 11:11:15 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: kingpins10

“Another one bites the dust”

Next stop... Coast To Coast AM.


89 posted on 07/17/2009 11:11:19 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: handy old one

That’s called entropy, which is another argument against “self organizing systems” like evolution.


90 posted on 07/17/2009 11:14:02 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: GodGunsGuts

It’s pretty clear that T. Rex scientists were in possession of the secret of time travel.


91 posted on 07/17/2009 11:15:16 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: kingpins10

You do understand that without evolution,
there has to be a Creator,
and logically there will be an objective standard of judgement from that Creator,

and this is somewhere where many fear to go.

So you understand why these conversations get nasty in a hurry.


92 posted on 07/17/2009 11:16:03 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: MrB

I understand. But it is truly sad that so many are indoctrinated with theories and assumptions and believed as fact. If Darwin could speak now, what would he say? ;)


93 posted on 07/17/2009 11:18:29 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10
If Darwin could speak now, what would he say? ;)
LET ME OUTA THIS TOMB!!!

Darwin had a kind of messed up life. Lost some family, a daughter I think, and had a real chip on his shoulder about God because of it.

He'd probably be justifying his theories just as strongly as you see other atheists today.

94 posted on 07/17/2009 11:21:46 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: Kozak
"Teeth of tyrannosaurus ancestor dating back 140 mil years found in Hyogo"

Since there is no evidence that it is anything but a T-Rex, this headline is wishful rationalization, and nothing more.

95 posted on 07/17/2009 11:24:25 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts

There goes all that peer review out the winder.


96 posted on 07/17/2009 11:24:31 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Quick justice for the senseless killing of Marine Lance Cpl. Robert Crutchfield.)
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To: theFIRMbss

“Museum officials in Japan say fossilized teeth from an ancestor of the tyrannosaurus have been found in the Hyogo Prefecture.”

This illustrates the irrational credulity of the evo camp.

Facts mean nothing to them if they don’t support their illogical assumptions, so they ‘adjust’ the facts by inserting the word “ancestor” to hide the fact that it was a T-Rex in every way, except where it was found.


97 posted on 07/17/2009 11:29:12 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: kingpins10
"In fact, science estimates mankind has less than 1% of all knowledge."

I'm not necessarily doubting you, but your statement leaves me with two questions;

1) Can you cite your source?

2) Is this the same science you discount with respect to evolution?

98 posted on 07/17/2009 11:31:04 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: editor-surveyor

Not exactly the first one found..

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1565889.htm


99 posted on 07/17/2009 11:32:35 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: MrB

I was referring to the post also not just everything else like life, the economy , mankind and the environment. How is that for covering the problem as a whole and yet individually as a whole??


100 posted on 07/17/2009 11:33:23 AM PDT by handy old one (It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle)
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