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Mandatory End of Life Counseling for Seniors
Zach's House Blog ^ | July 17, 2009 | Zach

Posted on 07/17/2009 4:11:33 PM PDT by madison10

Edited on 07/17/2009 4:30:33 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

One of the most outrageous mandates in the Democratic health care bill is found on page 416. [Mod note: try pp 425-426] On this page, you will see mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors every five years. With this counseling, they will be spoken to about the different end of life choices that can be undertaken.

This is crazy. How could some Democrat not get an amendment approved during committee to remove this page of the new health care legislation?

This is only one outrage contained in this bill. If Obama has his way, forcing this bill to be voted on next week without members and citizens to actually see what is in it, we will definitely be surprised the next time we try to go see a doctor.

Call Democrat Mike Ross and ask him to stop this bill in committee. Also tell him you’ll donate to his campaign and do so, after he stops this bill. The energy committee must pass the bill to get it to the floor. There are many conservative Dems on that committee. Only 7 are needed to kill it. They had 10 yesterday. They need your support. Two other committees already passed it today. We need to call today. Also, can someone else post the names of other blue dog Dems on that committee? Thanks.

You can see the entire 1018 page health care bill here.

Washington 2436 Rayburn House Office Bldg Washington, DC 20515 1-800-223-2220 (202) 225-1314 Fax

Prescott 221 West Main Street Prescott, AR 71857 (870) 887-6787 (870) 887-6799 Fax

Hot Springs 300 Exchange Street Suite A Hot Springs National Park, AR 71901 (501) 520-5892 (501) 520-5873 Fax

Pine Bluff George Howard, Jr. Federal Bldg. 100 East 8th Avenue, Room 2521 Pine Bluff, AR 71601 (870) 536-3376 (870) 536-4058 Fax


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; agenda; bho44; bhohealthcare; deathcare; democratcongress; democrats; elderly; fubo; help; murderbyobama; obama; obamacare; seniors; socializedmedicine
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To: madison10

I can’t imagine the geezers in the senate going for this.


51 posted on 07/17/2009 4:42:26 PM PDT by Post5203 (0bama is the Jim Jones of the new millennium.)
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To: aimhigh

Good catch!

Unbelievable!


52 posted on 07/17/2009 4:45:51 PM PDT by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: madison10

Seniors need to declare mandatory end-of-life for 0bamacare end-of-life counselors.


53 posted on 07/17/2009 4:47:43 PM PDT by Mogollon (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: cripplecreek
I suspect that during counselling, many seniors will be found to be “confused and disoriented” and unable to make end of life decisions for themselves.

And as such, they should not be in possession of any firearms.

54 posted on 07/17/2009 4:49:36 PM PDT by randita
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To: madison10

OK here is the paragraph

“‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title ...”

While we know this monstrosity will result in rationing and such there is nothing in this bill that specifically says much of anything about that. This is just a teaser of things to come by these socialists.

But I’m glad it is in this bill because it gives us an opening to get this issue on the table. This issue is what will get people emotionally united against the bill.


55 posted on 07/17/2009 4:49:43 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: madison10
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
 
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
 
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

56 posted on 07/17/2009 4:49:51 PM PDT by Lucretia Borgia (I will be happy to show Obama the same respect the Democrats gave Reagan, Bush, and Palin.)
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To: madison10

If they show up at my place I’ll have two dueling pistols ready, we’ll see how they like that mandatory end of life scenario.


57 posted on 07/17/2009 4:50:42 PM PDT by culpeper ( When traitors are called heroes, dark times have fallen - Roland Deschain)
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To: madison10

This isn’t Sci-fi; this is prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.


58 posted on 07/17/2009 4:51:17 PM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: Balding_Eagle

When the time comes, if such meetings are mandatory, I am going to take with me a big, fat, juicy creme pie to apply to the face of the person doing the counseling. And maybe a stink bomb if they haven’t been outlawed by our Overlords by then.


59 posted on 07/17/2009 4:52:11 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: GnuHere
Oh, it certainly wouldn’t be a shrink - more like an ACORN type I suspect, who’s had a 2 hour training seminar.

First question: Are you a Democrat or a Republican? If you answer Democrat, the interview is complete and you are free to go. If you answer Republican, you'll get this question: Do you own any firearms?

If you say yes, the trap door opens and you're never seen again.

60 posted on 07/17/2009 4:53:10 PM PDT by randita
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To: Paladin2

AARP thinks their members will get some sort of privileged exemption.

AARP delenda est.


61 posted on 07/17/2009 4:53:24 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: plain talk

Oh — there is more on pg 429 ... I just read 425-426. These idiots messed up and showed their cards. I figured they would slip that stuff in next years bill.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2295176/posts


62 posted on 07/17/2009 4:53:43 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: madison10

Guys, I just read through the bill. Take a chill pill.

The section in question simply refers to the drafting of an advance directive that lets everyone (including your doctors) know what to do if you are incapacitated and cannot communicate your wishes regarding care. It also creates a requirement that the directive be updated every 5 years via one-on-one counseling. I have one, and so does my wife.

Look, folks, there is enough bad stuff in this bill without creating dangers that aren’t there. Think about it from the standpoint of someone who is “on the fence” regarding the health care bill. If you start jumping up and down about something, and it turns out to be nothing, then all warnings regarding government-run health care that we make start to seem over-wrought.


63 posted on 07/17/2009 4:53:45 PM PDT by ForeignDude
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To: jkeith3213
"Could these congressmen willfully disregarding to Constitution, be considered treason? If not it should still be criminal, so they can be indicted and removed."

Not without a FAIR TRIAL. The procedure set forth in the Vigilante Mans Manual is to:

  1. Hold a FAIR TRIAL,

  2. Then HANG THE SOBS

Seems rather straight forward to me. If you are absolutely sure they are guilty, the order of things can be reversed.

64 posted on 07/17/2009 4:55:46 PM PDT by An Old Man (Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or Do without.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

While I agree that discussing end of life issues is generally a good thing, I have a HUGE problem with the federal goverment telling me what my doctor and I can talk about and forcing me to have any conversation with my physician at all. The end of MY life is MY responsibility and I’ll have the discussion with whoever I damn well choose!

What’s the penalty if I or my doctor refuse to have this discussion.


65 posted on 07/17/2009 4:56:09 PM PDT by rhetorica
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To: madison10

I’ll be damned.


66 posted on 07/17/2009 4:56:21 PM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights (I piddy da foo if Jim Thompson zots you!)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Praise His name indeed
67 posted on 07/17/2009 4:56:47 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Sprit of '76)
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To: madison10

Who put that in there?

We do not need the government to tell us how or when to die, for God’s sake.


68 posted on 07/17/2009 5:00:02 PM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights (I piddy da foo if Jim Thompson zots you!)
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To: Bean Counter

69 posted on 07/17/2009 5:00:15 PM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Bean Counter
OH MY GOSH!

We need to tell ALL OF AMERICA that uhbama's health care plan is one step away from soylent green...and remind folks that they, too, will be considered old someday, maybe sooner than they think with this plan.

We should associate soylent green and the yuck factor with uhbama and his horrific scam to steal 1/6 of our economy with his health care debacle.

70 posted on 07/17/2009 5:00:47 PM PDT by Republic (Uhbama has sleezed and schmoozed his way through life-he is a silly little boy with inmmature dreams)
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To: La Lydia
When the time comes, if such meetings are mandatory, I am going to take with me a big, fat, juicy creme pie to apply to the face of the person doing the counseling.

If creme pies come in .40 caliber hollowpoint, count me in.

71 posted on 07/17/2009 5:01:56 PM PDT by Lazamataz ("If they taxed condoms and toilet paper, they'd have us coming and going." - Lazamataz, 2002)
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To: rhetorica
What’s the penalty if I or my doctor refuse to have this discussion.

As I grow older, closer to death, I am becoming less fearful of death itself. There isn't much they could do to me that would make me fearful of the consequences.

Bring 'em on!

72 posted on 07/17/2009 5:04:24 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries for the American farmer.)
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To: madison10

Don’t forget to play Blue Oyster Cult when you come knockin...

All our times have come
Here but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain..we can be like they are
Come on baby...don’t fear the reaper
Baby take my hand...don’t fear the reaper
We’ll be able to fly...don’t fear the reaper
Baby I’m your man...

Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Romeo and Juliet
Are together in eternity...Romeo and Juliet
40,000 men and women everyday...Like Romeo and Juliet
40,000 men and women everyday...Redefine happiness
Another 40,000 coming everyday...We can be like they are
Come on baby...don’t fear the reaper
Baby take my hand...don’t fear the reaper
We’ll be able to fly...don’t fear the reaper
Baby I’m your man...

Love of two is one
Here but now they’re gone
Came the last night of sadness
And it was clear she couldn’t go on
Then the door was open and the wind appeared
The candles blew then disappeared
The curtains flew then he appeared...saying don’t be afraid
Come on baby...and she had no fear
And she ran to him...then they started to fly
They looked backward and said goodby...she had become like they are
She had taken his hand...she had become like they are
Come on baby...don’t fear the reaper


73 posted on 07/17/2009 5:04:34 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: madison10

They can go to hell.


74 posted on 07/17/2009 5:07:35 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: Crazieman
It starts on page 425 ...
75 posted on 07/17/2009 5:07:52 PM PDT by mlizzy
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To: svcw

I just heard Mark Levin talk about this. Try page 16. He was talking about that page, not sure of his context though as I got in on the tail end of discussion.


76 posted on 07/17/2009 5:12:31 PM PDT by esqreb2 (Tried to contribute)
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To: Paladin2

“So where is the AARP?”

My exact thought. On Monday, I will call and ask them.


77 posted on 07/17/2009 5:14:03 PM PDT by 4integrity
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To: madison10

Does it say whats the penalty for refusing to attend these counseling sessions? Do they withhold the monthly SS check or something like that?


78 posted on 07/17/2009 5:14:07 PM PDT by lowbridge (It's not that liberals are ignorant, it's that they know so much that isn't so - Ronald Reagan)
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To: svcw

Try pages 426 and 427


79 posted on 07/17/2009 5:15:26 PM PDT by bamagirl1944 (That's short for Alabama, not Obama)
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To: Paladin2
So where is the AARP?

My guess is they are sponsors.

80 posted on 07/17/2009 5:18:07 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: jkeith3213
They do lots of unconstitutional things

Surely not, I mean just because they vote to pass legislation, that hasn't even been written, let alone read. How could that be unconstitutional?

81 posted on 07/17/2009 5:22:31 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: SatinDoll
I don’t see anything on there about assisted or unassisted suicide

I just did a pre-op to get a hernia repaired, one of the documents they want you to sign, is, "I wish to continue receiving medication to relieve my pain, even if it hastens my death."

Looks to me like they get to decide when I'm in pain, since there is no other party that gets consulted.

82 posted on 07/17/2009 5:25:50 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: svcw

It is on page 416 and 417 just keep reading


83 posted on 07/17/2009 5:28:35 PM PDT by bzybee
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To: cripplecreek

Bingo!!


84 posted on 07/17/2009 5:29:20 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: ForeignDude

Guys, I just read through the bill. Take a chill pill.

__________________________

I agree with you that the bill does not directly promote assisted suicide counseling but I think the outrage is understandable.

As many others have pointed out....

The gov’t has no right or mandates for this and it is only a quick amendment tacked onto a future bill that could add more emphasis for “assisted suicide” into this monstrosity.

The trust is not there between citizens and the government and the FACT remains that the government is poised to take over the health care industry. The “outlandish” ideas can more easily be inserted after they gain control.

Ask yourself this.......

Did anyone 20 years ago think Americans would be voting on the definition of marriage?

These progressive ideas we suffer today all started with government/courts seizing power. I don’t doubt for a second that assisted suicide would not be viewed by many as a “solution” when the dollars dry up. We already have statements from other progressives promoting this.


85 posted on 07/17/2009 5:29:44 PM PDT by volunbeer (Dear heaven.... we really need President Reagan again!)
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To: Snickering Hound
Don't Fear the FReeper

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

86 posted on 07/17/2009 5:30:36 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: rhetorica
What’s the penalty if I or my doctor refuse to have this discussion.

For starters:

Any and all health care withheld until you have "the discussion"

Later when the it is discovered that Socialized Medicine is too expensive?

Euthanasia at say 90.

or 85

or 75

or 65

or ____ provided you are politically correct

If you are not politically correct to the death camp with you at any age.

Welcome to the socialized life,,,, and death

87 posted on 07/17/2009 5:33:09 PM PDT by TYVets
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To: An Old Man

You got a link for that manual ? It’d be good to know the, erm, rules, for, erm, future reference, erm, curiosity...


88 posted on 07/17/2009 5:34:46 PM PDT by farlander (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: madison10

Does this mean if I want to discuss end of life stuff with my doctor every 2 years it will be illegal?


89 posted on 07/17/2009 5:35:14 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Jeff Head
That's all I could find, and found no provisions for assited suicide counseling.

You have to read what it means not what it says. It is disguised as something that is really helpful, you know sort of like the Jews taking sanitizing showers before, entering the work camp quarters.

Cr@p people this is already a fact in this country. A single federal judge ruled in Colorado, that any Doctor could assist in suicide and not be charged with a crime. Notice there is no proof required that the person being assisted has to know he is being assisted. Oregon, also offers suicide pills when treatments become too expensive.

The right to die with dignity cr@p has never been about the right to die with dignity, but about the right of the state to terminate you.

90 posted on 07/17/2009 5:35:36 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: unixfox

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!


91 posted on 07/17/2009 5:35:55 PM PDT by mojitojoe (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Balding_Eagle
How do they define old?

Any way they want to.

92 posted on 07/17/2009 5:36:07 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: Post5203
I can’t imagine the geezers in the senate going for this.

Why not? It won't apply to them.

93 posted on 07/17/2009 5:37:08 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: goodnesswins

>Sounds like they are making a “LIVING WILL” a matter of law...IOW....like insurance, you MUST HAVE IT<

As has been discussed on this forum in the past, you can use a living will to make it plain you want your life preserved, should you be rendered unconscious or too senile to state your desires.

Living wills aren’t automatically DNR orders.


94 posted on 07/17/2009 5:37:20 PM PDT by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: Raycpa
Does this mean if I want to discuss end of life stuff with my doctor every 2 years it will be illegal?

Dear, you won't HAVE a doctor. You will be discussing your "stuff" with the government loony-tunes every two years, if you want to talk to them that often. Personally, I DON'T.

95 posted on 07/17/2009 5:39:03 PM PDT by madison10 (Prayer is what is remains when we run out of options...when it should have been the first choice.)
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To: goodnesswins

Yes they are making a living will mandatory, as part of that they are requiring a minimum of once every 5 years to revisit your “choices”, also in the case of a change in your medical outlook such as a diagnosis of something serious.
Other than the unconstitutional bullcrap of this whole thing- what it also does is have the government, via your doctor, keep questioning decisions you have made regards your long term care. So a decision I make when I am 45 or 50, they are going to keep revisiting that decision every 5 years perhaps until I’m foggy enough to get talked into what they all think is “best” for me.
It also looks like there is to be a “healthcare proxy” decision maker at some point I’ll have to go back and read that part again.


96 posted on 07/17/2009 5:39:31 PM PDT by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: Paige
This isn’t Sci-fi; this is prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.

Amen, and even some of the solid freepers here don't seem to get it. We are in a religious war and don't know it, but our enemy sure does.

97 posted on 07/17/2009 5:39:31 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: goodnesswins

Yes they are making a living will mandatory, as part of that they are requiring a minimum of once every 5 years to revisit your “choices”, also in the case of a change in your medical outlook such as a diagnosis of something serious.
Other than the unconstitutional bullcrap of this whole thing- what it also does is have the government, via your doctor, keep questioning decisions you have made regards your long term care. So a decision I make when I am 45 or 50, they are going to keep revisiting that decision every 5 years perhaps until I’m foggy enough to get talked into what they all think is “best” for me.
It also looks like there is to be a “healthcare proxy” decision maker at some point I’ll have to go back and read that part again.


98 posted on 07/17/2009 5:39:35 PM PDT by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: ForeignDude
Guys, I just read through the bill. Take a chill pill.

Seeing, they see not; hearing, they hear not.

Wise up, the government is about to undertake the depopulation of mother earth.

99 posted on 07/17/2009 5:41:54 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
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To: Post5203

“I can’t imagine the geezers in the senate going for this”

Why not they are exempted from it.


100 posted on 07/17/2009 5:42:51 PM PDT by bzybee
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