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Little gems from the Health Care Bill
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=903496 ^

Posted on 07/24/2009 3:12:23 PM PDT by CMS

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To: CMS

“I don’t know how to hot link.”

Hit “Enter” after each URL.

1017 pages of HR3200
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

But I got it off of another forum http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=903496

and they got it from, and just cleaned it up a bit.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/07/whats-in-healthacre-bill.html


51 posted on 08/01/2009 9:11:45 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: ncdonna

You are like those in Nazi Gemany trying to assure the Germans Hitler was doing what was in the best interests of the German people. Remember how safe Hitler made the streets of Germany by enacting gun laws?


52 posted on 08/01/2009 9:53:28 AM PDT by FreeEnterprise85
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To: Uncle Miltie
>>> Looks like I’ll be paying for healthcare twice, like I paid for education twice.

...don't forget you're paying for retirement twice already too if you have an IRA/401K to prop up your Social Security.

53 posted on 08/01/2009 12:07:43 PM PDT by Bill_o'Rights
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Here are my thoughts on this subject.

I actually was planning on posting a "Freeper's Observation" op-ed on this subject tomorrow. However CMS has done such a great job of adressing this issue that I thought I'd instead go ahead and augment the work that he/she has done so well on this subject.

This thread was linked to on some other websites in op-eds and some of the responses have been rather predictable. Both here and in those other threads. There are apparently some Obamabots who obviously are attemping to sell this snake oil who are trying to convince us that what CMS says is false and that what it is really isn't.

Let me just say that I have in fact read the various versions of this bill in their respective entirties and I can tell you that CMS is dead right on this. This peice of legislation is snake oil. Deadly, poisonous snake oil at that.

Earlier this week, My dad Chuck who will turn 87 in October received a brand new pacemaker, his third one. I can tell you that had this legislation been in effect, he would not had received it.

It's quite obvious that people are catching on to this piece of snake oil and are voicing opposition. What we are witnessing from the MSM who obiviously is in the pockets of the Obama Adminstration and the Reid-Pelosi crowd are Saul Alinsky style tatics. Tatics designed to try and smear the good names of people like myself and CMS who are simply trying to blow the whistle on this piece of poisonous and deadly snake oil.

I would just say to everyone before you go and take the words of these unsavory elements as gospel that you stop and think for a moment. This legislation clearly has Satan written over it. I can tell you that this is not something the man up above would condone much less tolerate. Do we really want Obama and the Democrats playing G*d with people's lives?

I would urge everyone to contact your Congressman about this snake oil and let him or her know how you feel about this piece of snake oil being shoved down our throats. Even if your congressperson is an (R), you still should contacct him or her to voice opposition. There are a number of very unsavory elements, Obamabots and others who embarce this Satan death culture who are going to try to convince our elected representatives that the vast majority of people support this snake oil when in reality, it's the other way around. We need to make every possible effort to outnumber these unsavory elements.

And, as to these clowns and goonies such as those at Politico and like Andrea Mitchell from PMSNBC, it's obvious they've have never had a real job in their lives and don't have any since of what real life is like. These news organizations need to be put out of business. They are not telling te whole story of what is going on in the world around us. If you really want to know what's going on in the world around you, you need to dump these clowns and goonies and start getting your news from sources like World Net Daily, Newsmax, Drudge Report and Free Republic.

The MSM has no interest whatsoever in reporting the news, their only interest is in turning America into another Zimbabwe.

Once again, Kudos to CMS for a job well done in doing his/her homework on this very subject. Whether anyone likes it being said or not this legislation is posionous, deadly snake oil and needs to be defeated.

Anyone voting for this is voting for murder and needs to have his or her butt run out of town. It's time for these clowns and goonies in Washington to get the message. It is they who work for us, not the other way around. It is we who are the bosses, not the other way around.

And, if they don't get it then they need to have their butts run out of town, period end of quote.

Regards......

54 posted on 08/01/2009 12:46:16 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: OgreTheGreat

thanks


55 posted on 08/06/2009 6:02:57 AM PDT by gibsosa
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To: OgreTheGreat
thank you................. i cant say it any better. I hope it was okay to quote you in some lambasting on the so called ‘ Crap cutter “ site. I had to lay into some of the insultingly insipid gibberish people spout on that site.
“ I actually saw at one of the ‘teabagger’ events a sign that said ‘F**K the poor’”. that is the kind of thing that is so ridiculous, it is hard to swallow without the caveat, yes, I can imagine he DID see that, carried by an “Obam-ite” ( my own word for a tick like organism that drinks Obama-aid from the Kooler without questioning the source of the drink, ever ) in order to give the LEFT fuel for more of their idiotic banter.
A great Stateswoman, Geneane Garaffalo ( no clue how to spell her name, no desire to get it right ) said back in 2002 in an interview, that “ descent is a RIGHT, and more people SHOULD speak out against their government, and the government should be less harsh in its response “ I am paraphrasing, but that was her gist, Stand up speak out it is your DUTY and right as a U.S. citizen.
THEN, when the tea parties started, she said THIS: “Lets face it, most of these people don't even know what the Boston tea party was about or for. What this is, is all about HATING A BLACK MAN.” I could hardly believe my ears, and the moron reporter simply nodded and smiled, ‘cause he was an Obam-ite as well.
Because Republicans and Conservatives STOOD up, and said this is garbage, it HAS to be about HATING a BLACK MAN.
Good GOD Garafalo,, are you that much a bigoted hate-monger that YOU yourself have become worse than ANYONE or anything you have ever spoke out against ?
Apparently, yes is the answer. She went on and on about how all of these tea party people, were ignorant hate mongers, and that they were to stupid to know word one about what the Boston Tea party represented.

And worse still, hardly ANYONE outside of Conservative radio even mentioned this.

56 posted on 08/06/2009 10:31:26 AM PDT by Freedom Yankee (I have but one voice, but making it heard is merely a matter of opening ones mouth.)
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To: CMS

Thank you CMS.. I got this from Charisma. AJH


57 posted on 08/06/2009 7:06:24 PM PDT by americanmother (2nd Tim chapter 3)
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To: publana

ping for later


58 posted on 08/07/2009 9:53:38 PM PDT by publana (Obama, you will not intimidate me into not voicing my opinions.)
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To: CMS

That’s not all my friends.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/08/shock-inside-healthcare-bill-part-2.html

Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Govt will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic med records.

PG 506 Lines 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data.

PG 518 Lines 21-25 The Commission will have input from HC consumer reps – Can u say unions & ACORN?

PG 621 Lines 20-25 Govt will define what Quality means in HC. Since when does Govt know about quality?

PG 624 “Quality” measures shall b designed to profile u including race, age, gender, place of residence, etc

Pg 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups incl. Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HC quality.

PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Qual Measures” 4 Physician Svcs & Dialysis Svcs.

Pg 635 to 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision – Govt wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Govt.

PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency – Govt will tell U where ur residency will b, thus where u’ll live.

Pg 676-686 Govt will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, incl. teaching hospitals.

PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HC providers/suppliers admittance into HC Exchng.

Pg 719-720 Sec 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable med equip or home med svcs MUST b enrolled in Medicare.

Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforce. purposes the Secretary-HHS will give Atty General access to ALL data.

Pg 757-762 Fed govt will shift burden of payments 2 Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) 2 States. (Taxes)

Pg 768 Sec 1713 Govt – Nurse Home Visitation Svcs (Hello union paybacks)

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Svcs – “increasing birth intervals btwn pregnancies.” Govt Abortions any1?

Pg 770 SEC 1714 Fed Govt mandates eligibility 4 State Family Planning Svcs. Say abortion & State Sovereign.

Pg 789-797 Govt will set, mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs brought 2 mrkt. Bye innovation

PG 801 Sec 1751 The Govt will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc req. 2 register. Govt takes over private payment sys.

PG 829-833 Govt will impose a fee on ALL private health ins. plans incl. self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

Pg 838-840 Govt will design & implem. Home Visitation Prog 4 families w young kids & families expect kids.

PG 844-845 OMG! This Home Visitation Prog. includes Govt coming in2 ur house & telling u how 2 parent

Pg 859 Govt will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes thats Billion.

Pg 865 The Govt will MANDATE the establishment of a National Health Service Corps

PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HC for 2yrs for part loan repayment

PG 876-892 The govt takes over the education of our Med students and Drs

PG 898 The Govt will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. 2 ensure supply of public health prof.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians

PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL incl commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HC Draft? WTF!

PG 910 The Govt will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.

PG 913-914 Govt starts a HC affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.

PG 915 SEC. 2251. Govt MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency trng 4 HC professionals.

Pg 932 The Govt will estab Preventative & Wellness Trust fund- intial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion

PG 936 Govt will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Perform. Standards” Tell me what 2 eat?

PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Govt? Offices of Surg. Gen. -Public Health Svc, MinorityHealth, Women’s Health

PG 993 Govt will establish school based health clinics. Your kids wont have a chance.

PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say GOVT Brainwash!

PG 1001 The Govt will establish a National Medical Device Registry. Will u be tracked?

PG 1003 9-11 National Med Dev Reg ‘‘(iii) other postmarket device surveillance activities” U WILL b tracked.


59 posted on 08/11/2009 3:58:28 PM PDT by Razgriz (Razgriz is a deamon in the government, when he rises democracy FALLS.)
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To: CMS
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think this statement is correctly defined as stated:

Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

Pg 29 has a paragraph showing "annual limitations" - which I take to mean your out of pocket expenses will not exceed $5000 for an individual or $10,000 for a family

This doesn't seem to be the same as an admission that health care will be rationed..... now don't misunderstand me - I do think it will be rationed, but I do not think this page defines that at all.

Anyone else read it this way?

60 posted on 08/11/2009 8:14:50 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
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To: Tribune7

I posted that section when the bill first came out. Let me go see if I can find my post.


61 posted on 08/12/2009 3:33:03 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Looking for our Sam Adams)
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To: Tribune7

I see someone pointed to the bank account info. What I had posted a while back was about how they are going to be able to access your IRS records and whatever else they want in the guise of trying to determine if you are eligible. If interested it is here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2295163/posts?page=84#84


62 posted on 08/12/2009 3:41:25 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Looking for our Sam Adams)
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Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: CMS

Thanks for putting this together...and ruining another night’s sleep. Just kidding.

Nice work.


64 posted on 08/12/2009 10:14:01 PM PDT by AlaninSA
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To: ncdonna

I doubt you’ll find many “sheep” on FR. I’ve read the entire bill, have you? If you had you’d realize that being a nurse in no way qualifies you to interpret the legalese that our legislation is written in, somehow better than the rest of us can. Everyone of the author’s points can be found in the bill. I recognized every bullet point, and took the time to go to that section of the bill and verify. They did an excellent job of summarizing what this bill will create. We SHOULD be very scared, and if you’re not, then you just might be one of those sheep. I’ve lived under socialized medicine and spent two years in a wheelchair that I shouldn’t have had to, while I waited for a surgery that I was told was too expensive. The only reason I got that surgery (and the surgery needed to fix what they botched in the first one) was because I happened to be friends with the V.P. of the AMA. He had friends in the right places that got me the surgery I needed. Without that help, I’d still be in that wheelchair or, probably worse. Government control of any part of our healthcare IS scary. My husband would also tell you that the V.A.’s socialized medical system causes these same kind of horror stories over and over again. They are understaffed, underpaid, and over regulated, and people die because of it. Or they get the wrong leg removed in a botched surgery. That happened at the VA here just recently. Have a lawyer walk you through the bill if you think there is nothing scary in there.


65 posted on 08/13/2009 12:20:18 AM PDT by Cherokee Conservative (We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?)
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To: CMS

Appreciate the article, and it is frightening. The key piece of information is the bill number from which this was distilled. I found seven bills on this topic that had been introduced in the House and referred to committee. I would like to know which this came from, if you know.


66 posted on 08/14/2009 1:52:03 PM PDT by Dentrist52
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To: CMS

I am generally opposed to having the government involved in the health-care business, but I have been unable to make any informed decisions based on the hyperbole and diatribe in the media, so I began looking for information about HR 3200, including the bill itself. In the process, I came across your post, which was “recommended” by another site because it was written by someone “who can translate government double-speak”. Indeed, your “gems” are succinct and direct, and quite frightening, leading me with even greater urgency to the bill itself. I have not yet read the entire legislation, but I did research the “gems” which you had highlighted in red, as they seemed to be more urgent.

Unfortunately, I have found so far that you are doing the same thing that the media is doing with this: taking items out of context or otherwise giving them a “spin” of your own. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and your own interpretation of the contents of this bill, but your “authoritative” style in this post is, sadly, misleading. Note that I am not saying that I support the legislation, but allow me to point out where I believe that you have given incomplete or inaccurate assessments of the bill’s provisions.

Page 59 says that the containing section is to be used to develop guidelines and standards “so as to... enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice”. This sounds to me like the government paying the health care provider, not having “access to all individual bank accounts”.

On page 203, you have fun with the line, “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax”. Although it does say that, it says more, which you seem to have omitted. It says that the tax imposed *under this section* shall not be treated as tax imposed *by this chapter* *for the purposes of determining... any credit*”. In other words, in the middle of a chapter describing a particular tax and related credit is a section which describes a completely different tax, one which is *not* to be treated as contributing toward the calculation of the credit. It’s technical, but your version is not just simpler, it is incomplete and therefore misleading.

Page 427 is in the middle of a long and complex section, but I do not see where in it that “the government dictates how [my] life ends”. Rather, it amends the Social Security Act by adding a new definition of a service that is available (not mandated): that of Advance Care Planning Consultation. The “orders” described in this section are the wishes of the patient, put into official legal and medical form, and signed by the physician. Many people do this already (i.e. living wills); this seems to me to just make it an official part of the Medicare Act so that it is available under a covered individual’s insurance.

This applies to your comment about page 429 as well, on which it clearly states (line 17) that such an order, “effectively communicates the *individual’s* preferences regarding life sustaining treatment”. This is similar to a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) order or a living will, just formalized into the official text and provisions of the Medicare Act.

In summary, I thank you for what I am sure are well-intentioned efforts to help people understand a complex piece of legislation, but I am afraid that your summaries have not helped me, and I will continue to read the bill itself and make my own decisions about what it does or does not provide.


67 posted on 08/18/2009 7:07:38 AM PDT by Ak3la
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To: everyone

If anyone would like to actually read the bill and make an educated opinion for themselves, here is the link. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

It is actually unbelievable that people read this stuff and believe it without checking the information for themselves. One of the highlighted portions of this list states, “’The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.’ Yes, it really says that.” This is completely true. What is left out is that the “tax” is a tax on individuals that are not already covered by insurance and refuse to get coverage from either public or private insurance providers. The tax is a 2.5% tax on gross adjusted income for those that refuse the choice to get coverage. The tax then goes into the Health Insurance Trust Fund to provide affordability credits for those on a need-based sliding scale—that is why it is not deemed a tax since it goes directly to funding health care, not to the Treasury. Basically, those who are taxed are paying for the insurance of others that sign up for affordability credits, so they might as well be paying for their own insurance with the money instead of getting taxed for something they are freely choosing to deny.

This is just one fact out of the list that is misleading. I’m neither for or against the bill right now, but I look up the facts and make a decision for myself. I hope that everyone else in America will do the same. I suggest you find your own qualms with the bill, create an educated argument against the sections you find unworthy, and send it to your representative so that they can fix it.


68 posted on 09/11/2009 2:11:51 PM PDT by Objective Information (Let's figure out the facts ourselves)
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To: Jim Robinson

Good shootin’, Jim


69 posted on 09/11/2009 2:17:14 PM PDT by demsux
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To: CMS

I read through all of these and if this is true we are in for a world of hurt. But, are these really true? I asked my doctor 3 days ago about the item “all doctors get paid the same regardless of their speciality” and he said that was not true.

So my questions is this: Where can I find and download the real healthcare bill so I can double check all of these bits of information?


70 posted on 12/16/2009 3:10:44 PM PST by SadAmerican2
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: lannycarmichael

When you come on to a new forum, it’s not a good idea to start the conversation by shouting invectives.

I have a job, four children and am an OCS candidate. I do *not* have time to read a 1000+ bill. I know what the issues are with our healthcare system and understand from those I trust, including my representative who I know personally, that this law does not address those issues.

If you want to debate, start out with a reasonable discussion. Starting by shouting at those on this site is rude and unacceptable.


72 posted on 03/22/2010 5:54:05 PM PDT by cizinec
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: oblomov

Apparently what the American people want no longer matters...unfortunately.


74 posted on 03/24/2010 12:24:54 PM PDT by taylor_fan_1
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To: taylor_fan_1
This morning I was speaking to a retired 61 y/o woman who was very happy with the passage of HCR. When I asked why, she explained she liked restaurants listing nutritional information for all meals and 27 y/o "children" are covered.

Well, I expalined just a few of the "benefits" such as IRS access to their bank account, senior "life counciling", higher taxes, rationing, etc. She became very pale and said she had no idea and never heard any of this on TV news.

I replied, "Why would the news media give you the negative information about obamaCare?"

I think she's beginning to get the fact communism is on the way....

75 posted on 03/24/2010 12:45:50 PM PDT by newfreep (Palin/DeMint 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State)
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To: ncdonna

Can’t afford to “kick the can down the road”! Health care now!

Sincerely,

Ellie Light

/OFA


76 posted on 03/26/2010 6:03:44 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: lannycarmichael; Admin Moderator

LOL

Nice job bumping a thread from last year, ye who signed up on March 14.

zot time


77 posted on 03/26/2010 6:36:51 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (To view the FR@Alabama ping list, click on my profile!)
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To: ncdonna

NC stands for No charge Donna? Funny!


78 posted on 03/26/2010 10:09:35 AM PDT by listenhillary (Capitalism = billions raised from poverty, Socialism = billions reduced to starvation)
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To: CMS

sigh...


79 posted on 03/27/2010 10:02:30 AM PDT by gibsosa
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To: OgreTheGreat

bump


80 posted on 03/27/2010 10:07:30 AM PDT by gibsosa
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To: OgreTheGreat
GIFanatics.com

Nicely Done!

It takes a lot of work to point-by-point refute the illogic of the drones on the left. My hat is off to you.

81 posted on 03/27/2010 10:19:54 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Giant Gila Monster)
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To: CMS

“Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard. ‘

I had not heard this at all in the debate. But I do recall
when Hillary was trying to get her health care program this
was a very big issue that all Americans reejcted. Strange it was not on the radar for this bill debate.


82 posted on 03/28/2010 8:52:42 AM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: CMS

Can we send this to our legislators and ask them to verify line by line these items.

Of course I would ask them to justify their reasons for each...

Also, this should go to the editorial pages of the newspapers and ask them why they didn’t have this same info for all of us to see .


83 posted on 03/29/2010 5:55:08 AM PDT by patriotspride
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