Skip to comments.The United States did not use the word "African" for birth certificates in 1961 - Obama's does!
Posted on 07/28/2009 11:00:24 AM PDT by trueamerica
VITAL STATISTICS OF THE UNITED STATES 1961 at
says on page 231 under the section "Race and color" the following:
"Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and "other nonwhite."
"The category "white" includes, in addition to persons reported as "white," those reported as Mexican or Puerto Rican. With one exception, a reported mixture of Negro with any other race is included in the Negro group; other mixed parentage is classified according to the race of the nonwhite parent and mixtures of nonwhite races to the race of the father. The exception refers to a mixture of Hawaiian and any other race, which is classified as Part-Hawaiian. In most tables a less detailed classification of "white" and "nonwhite" is used."
Obama's "Certification of Live Birth" shows father's race as "African". That word was not used in 1961 to describe race.
You can draw your own conclusion.
I read it that this classification refers to the child being born, not the parents. Handful of straws...
You’ve given me an idea.
I am convinced that Obama plans to favor Blacks in such things as government grants.
My bloodline is Scotch... white.
I’m thinking of trying to get dual citizenship so that I can then be an African American and then apply for a few grants. I’ll let you white crackers how I do.
I wonder how screwed up the system would get, if millions of us became African Americans, legally.
That qualifies as “white.”
Obama, Sr. was from Africa—NOT Mississippi. I think this proves nothing.
Hussein requested the COLB, probably last year, to help stem the tide. It sure as heck ain’t original. But then, neither is he.
Ill let you white crackers how I do.= Ill let you white crackers KNOW how I do.
Not in 1961. The preferred word was Negro. And a COLB is not a birth certificate. It's merely a confirmation that a kid was born somewhere on a specific date. It's something that is issued after the fact, so the parent and kid have proof that the kid actually exists, and the parent can then use it apply for benefits. It is not a record of birth however.
I know, I know. I was just saying that “African” is not a smoking gun.
That, itself, remains to be seen as he was born to a foreign national and he himself had foreign citizenship at birth. There's no historical reference, writings, opinions through the ages that would support that kind of background as being NBC.
A legit HI birth would only prove that he's not an illegal alien (as there is no known naturalization record for him).
Could be a bunch of different “races”.
The “African” bit was always suspect.
Africa is a continent, not a singular -race-.
Good to see it coming to the forefront, though.
No. what if you were Jamaican, or from Belese? That would lump all black people together as being "African' when that would be both insulting and untrue.
Everything changed from 1960 to 1961? Or even from 1950 to 1961? Not likely.
Actually Hawaiian census categories came into line with US categories after statehood, so the categories in the 1960 census were different from earlier ones.
But if you were used to listing people as "Filipino" or "Portuguese" or "Puerto Rican" you wouldn't find "African" much of a stretch, all the more so if you didn't actually see that many "Negroes" around.
In some of the tables for the 1950 Hawaiian census African-Americans were listed with "Other Races" and were only a miniscule part of the population.
In other words, is there any evidence for what you say or are you offering an opinion?
What isn't an opinion where this sort of thing is concerned? You can find the categories used in the 1950 Hawaiian census online, at census.gov, for example.
See my point one, though. Birth certificates intended for the family aren't always as category-bound as those intended for the authorities.
If you were filling things like this out for the family you probably weren't obsessed with Mainland ideas of racial categories.
Obamas (finally published) birth certificate serial number is 151 1961 - 010641, he was born on 8-4-1961, and the certificate was filed by the Registrar on 8-8-1961 ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html )
Today, the Honolulu advertiser publishes a story, and at the bottom includes a set of long-form BCs from a woman who had twins at Kapiolani on 8-5-1961 who went to school with Obama.
These twins were born the day AFTER Obama AT KAPIOLANI. And their certificate numbers are LOWER than his (10637 and 10638). They were born 8-5-1961, the certificates were signed by mom 8-7-1961, signed by the MD 8-11-1961, and signed by the Registrar 8-11-1961.
THIS MEANS HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT BORN AT KAPIOLANI, because his BC number (born on Aug 4th and filed with Registrar Aug 8th) should have a lower number than the twins (Born Aug 5th at Kapiolani and filed with Registrar Aug 11th)
But it is. The COLB asks for the race, not country of origin. The word used to describe blacks was Negro, which is a correct description of race regardless or country of origin.
"African" is the very incorrect but 'policically correct' stupidity that is being used today. It wasn't even a consideration when this COLB was said to be issued.
Again do you have any evidence anyone at all listed their race as "African"? I understand what you're offering as opinion, but I'm more interested in evidence.
Oh yes you would. There are plenty of black (or negro if you will ) people in the south Pacific. They don't and never have called them Africans, or identified them as having at one time in their ancestral past as having come from africa. That's because they aren't from Africa.
Any racial classification is going to be found offensive to somebody.
My point was just that a state might not simply reuse racial categories of a half-century ago when it issues it's short form birth certificates.
It's entirely possible that Obama's original long-form said "African." I was simply suggesting that the possibility that someone's original long form might read "Negro" or "colored" while what they'd get from the state today might say "Black" or even "African-American."
Great catch Dinky!
Make this a new thread! It's more evidence that something is screwy.
I’ve been betting all along that on the certificate (long) it read “African Arab” or just “Arab”, and on the certification (short) it was changed at the request of a Dunham or and Obama to just “African.”
BHO Sr. was of the Luo tribe and had a name that is a Romanized spelling of an Arabic name, and such Luo would never allow themselves to be called “Negro”.
IOW, on a birth certificate Hawaii could, and probably did, accept "African" as designation for the black race. That is because the federally agreeable term, "white," wasn't necessarily being used by Hawaii as late as 1963 -- either.
The evidence for this is the redacted, but apparently actual, Certificate of Live Birth that's been on the Web for some time. This document shows the race of both parents as "Caucasian."
Of, course, everything about this controversy is so screwy, nothing would surprise me.
Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
Polarik says Obama did not request the COLB.
If there was a request for COLB from Obama, it should be on file, along with a copy of his paid invoice.
Are document requests public or private?
That find increases the odds that OdumbO’s BC is a type 2.
Yes, “Negro” was the correct racial term to use in 1961. I absolutely agree with you. All I am saying is that there might have been an understandable motive for someone in 1961 such as a clerk or a nurse or a doctor to use the incorrect term “African” in this case: not wanting to use “Negro” for someone who was an educated gentleman from Kenya and wanting to create a distinction in his case. That said, I think the COLB is very fishy and would really like for Obama to come clean and release his long form.
Oh yeah - The Mozambiqui! I almost forgot.
That’s been my thought as well...it’s not a matter of where he was born (any record involved will inevitably show him born in Hawaii, fact or fiction)...but the long form is going to list him as Caucasian...goodbye first African-American President...magritte
Maybe they said African because he wasn’t an American.
The democrats invented a new race, so they could peddle their race politics to them. You are either American Indian or white, there is no “hispanic” race.
I’m thinking they might be denying the BC thing to protect their own interests more than anything else. Perhaps they even privately think that there might be something to the BC issue — or perhaps not. But either way, they are denying that there is any “there there” simply to cover their butts and keep their ratings.
If they start beating like crazy on the BC issue, and Barry turns out to be a natural-born citizen all along, then they might have surmised that this would be a credibility loss and an embarrassment. On the other hand, if they insist that there is nothing to this issue, and there actually ends up being something there, then they can more easily just point to whatever revelations or evidence there is, and say “Wow, shocking new evidence, there is something to this after all, tune in to Hugh Hewitt for the explosive details....blah blah.” Not quite as bad.
I hope they’re not as cynically self-preservationist as that — maybe they just honestly don’t think anything is there on this issue — but the thought did cross my mind.
Kurt Tsue, a public relations officer for the Hawaii Department of Health answered this question almost a year ago. In 1961, Hawaii allowed the parents of a newborn to choose their own racial designation. Hawaii has always been the most multiracial state and its often difficult to assume a race from just looking at a person.
The following is from factcheck.org’s article on the Obama birth certificate: “Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn’t tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama’s father’s race listed as “African”? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that ‘we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.’ We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as “African.” It’s certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
The word “African” was chosen by Barack Obama Senior. It is still typical today for Black Africans to not use the word “Negro”, or any other American racial identifier, even “Black” to describe themselves.
Even in 2009 Africans often identify with a nation or a tribal group not a race.
There’s nothing to see here, move along now.
The obvious point you seem to be missing is that the USG gives parameters on how to report the race of the child. It doesn't tell parents what they can and cannot put down on the birth certificate. They can classify themselves however they want. If you don't like any of the race categories listed, you can just check "other" and fill in what you want to call yourself.
Duh. I can't believe how stupid the birther arguments have become.
WOW!!! Great catch.
Make this a new thread please.
It seems pretty plausible to me that African man would prefer to classify himself as "African" than as "Negro," given that Pan-African nationalism was so much in vogue at the time.
Great find!!! Its the pesky litle details that trip up the big lies.
BOR has some agenda on this “BC problem” and won’t give a hoot about silly little facts.
Does the race the mother gives appear on the birth certificate issued to the family and the record kept at the clerk's office even if it doesn't fit into pre-established categories? I don't know. I haven't seen enough birth certificates.
In some states at around the time Obama was born, the clerk or the state might simply reject what the mother said. But in others there might be a discrepancy between the record for the family and the record given the state health authorities.
So, yes, until I see more birth certificates, it's more of a gut feeling, but I don't think a Hawaiian clerk would have rejected "African" as a racial label. And that would stay on the birth certificate, though the information would be recoded when it was compiled for official statistics. But I'd have to actually see examples to be sure of what's more of a hunch.
Nowadays only 5 states still list the race of the child on birth certificates. Hawaii is one of them.
In censuses you can give your race as you like. It either gets recoded as one of the government categories or as "Other."
Yes, that is precisely how they identified themselves in 1961. It was better and more modern than "colored" which had recently fallen into disuse.
Add more to Obama’s lengthy trail of suspicions.
Why is it so, so important for Obama to spend over a million dollars in legal fees to keep his original long form birth certificate hidden from the American people? That speaks for itself.
Your not alleging that by simply being born in HI (assuming it's true), that he would then be considered a NBC, are you?
I've yet to find any judicial or legislative writings or opinions that state being born to a foreign national father would mean one is NBC.
Leo's trying (again) to hammer this important point home:
So is Mario, of course (that Barry couldn't be NBC, even IF born in HI, assuming BHO sr. is his father):
“Your not alleging that by simply being born in HI (assuming it’s true), that he would then be considered a NBC, are you?”
No! I’m not sure how my words gave that impression. I just said that if it does turn out that Barry is a natural-born citizen (through indisputable evidence that shows it), then...[fill in rest of my original post].
OK. I just couldn’t understand how it could ‘turn out that he is NBC’, as if when the HI long form is finally revealed.
So we should think that the Doctor and Nurse filling out the BC paperwork instead let the father fill in the section marked RACE with a designation that was technically incorrect? By this token the Caucasian designation would have been marked WHITE? This might very well happen nowdays, with all the dumbdown PC publik skool edicashun.
Reality is that the Nurse takes down the pertenient information and later fills in the blanks. Yes the father could have claimed AFRICAN, but certainly in 1961 this would not have been considered RACE and the person charged with completing the form would have marked NEGRO or NEGROID.