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The United States did not use the word "African" for birth certificates in 1961 - Obama's does!
Vital Statistics of the United States ^ | 1961 | U.S. Dept. of Health

Posted on 07/28/2009 11:00:24 AM PDT by trueamerica

VITAL STATISTICS OF THE UNITED STATES 1961 at

 http://www.nber.org/vital-statistics/historical/nat61_1.CV.pdf

 says on page 231 under the section "Race and color" the following:

 "Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and "other nonwhite."

 "The category "white" includes, in addition to persons reported as "white," those reported as Mexican or Puerto Rican. With one exception, a reported mixture of Negro with any other race is included in the Negro group; other mixed parentage is classified according to the race of the nonwhite parent and mixtures of nonwhite races to the race of the father. The exception refers to a mixture of Hawaiian and any other race, which is classified as Part-Hawaiian. In most tables a less detailed classification of "white" and "nonwhite" is used."

 Obama's "Certification of Live Birth" shows father's race as "African". That word was not used in 1961 to describe race.

You can draw your own conclusion.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: barackobama; bho2009; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; colb; kenya; naturalborn; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; obamatruthfile; usurper
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I read it that this classification refers to the child being born, not the parents. Handful of straws...


101 posted on 07/28/2009 12:04:16 PM PDT by shivashambho
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To: Genoa
Well, a US baby couldn’t be African. But a parent could. I don’t have any examples, sorry. My point is that it would have been natural for some clerk to use “African” to try to confer respectability on a black-skinned foreign national.


102 posted on 07/28/2009 12:05:20 PM PDT by fso301
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To: libh8er

You’ve given me an idea.

I am convinced that Obama plans to favor Blacks in such things as government grants.

My bloodline is Scotch... white.

I’m thinking of trying to get dual citizenship so that I can then be an African American and then apply for a few grants. I’ll let you white crackers how I do.

I wonder how screwed up the system would get, if millions of us became African Americans, legally.


103 posted on 07/28/2009 12:08:20 PM PDT by Gator113 (It's about stupidity, stupid. IMPEACH HERE, IMPEACH NOW.)
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To: fso301

That qualifies as “white.”


104 posted on 07/28/2009 12:09:55 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: trueamerica

Obama, Sr. was from Africa—NOT Mississippi. I think this proves nothing.


105 posted on 07/28/2009 12:09:55 PM PDT by lonestar (Obama is turning Bush's "mess" into a catastrophe.)
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To: trueamerica

Hussein requested the COLB, probably last year, to help stem the tide. It sure as heck ain’t original. But then, neither is he.


106 posted on 07/28/2009 12:10:57 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: Gator113

I’ll let you white crackers how I do.= I’ll let you white crackers KNOW how I do.


107 posted on 07/28/2009 12:11:38 PM PDT by Gator113 (It's about stupidity, stupid. IMPEACH HERE, IMPEACH NOW.)
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To: Genoa
"Well, a US baby couldn’t be African. But a parent could. I don’t have any examples, sorry. My point is that it would have been natural for some clerk to use “African” to try to confer respectability on a black-skinned foreign national."

Not in 1961. The preferred word was Negro. And a COLB is not a birth certificate. It's merely a confirmation that a kid was born somewhere on a specific date. It's something that is issued after the fact, so the parent and kid have proof that the kid actually exists, and the parent can then use it apply for benefits. It is not a record of birth however.

108 posted on 07/28/2009 12:11:56 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

I know, I know. I was just saying that “African” is not a smoking gun.


109 posted on 07/28/2009 12:13:47 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: JohnEBoy
"even if he really is a natural born citizen"

That, itself, remains to be seen as he was born to a foreign national and he himself had foreign citizenship at birth. There's no historical reference, writings, opinions through the ages that would support that kind of background as being NBC.

A legit HI birth would only prove that he's not an illegal alien (as there is no known naturalization record for him).

110 posted on 07/28/2009 12:14:15 PM PDT by rxsid
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To: a fool in paradise

Could be a bunch of different “races”.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-original-black-african-arabs-of-arabia-part-1-ogu-eji-ofo-annu/

The “African” bit was always suspect.
Africa is a continent, not a singular -race-.
Good to see it coming to the forefront, though.


111 posted on 07/28/2009 12:14:49 PM PDT by Salamander (Cursed with Second Sight.)
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To: x
"4) Is it a rule short form birth certification precisely repeats the categories on the original long form birth certificate? If your original birth certificate had read "colored" or "Negro" isn't it possible that your computer generated short form certification might read "African-American"?

No. what if you were Jamaican, or from Belese? That would lump all black people together as being "African' when that would be both insulting and untrue.

112 posted on 07/28/2009 12:15:24 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: DouglasKC
Irrelevant since he was born in 1961.

Everything changed from 1960 to 1961? Or even from 1950 to 1961? Not likely.

Actually Hawaiian census categories came into line with US categories after statehood, so the categories in the 1960 census were different from earlier ones.

But if you were used to listing people as "Filipino" or "Portuguese" or "Puerto Rican" you wouldn't find "African" much of a stretch, all the more so if you didn't actually see that many "Negroes" around.

In some of the tables for the 1950 Hawaiian census African-Americans were listed with "Other Races" and were only a miniscule part of the population.

In other words, is there any evidence for what you say or are you offering an opinion?

What isn't an opinion where this sort of thing is concerned? You can find the categories used in the 1950 Hawaiian census online, at census.gov, for example.

See my point one, though. Birth certificates intended for the family aren't always as category-bound as those intended for the authorities.

If you were filling things like this out for the family you probably weren't obsessed with Mainland ideas of racial categories.

113 posted on 07/28/2009 12:17:25 PM PDT by x
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To: libh8er
African.


114 posted on 07/28/2009 12:17:42 PM PDT by Salamander (Cursed with Second Sight.)
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Obama’s (finally published) birth certificate serial number is 151 1961 - 010641, he was born on 8-4-1961, and the certificate was filed by the Registrar on 8-8-1961 ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html )

Today, the Honolulu advertiser publishes a story, and at the bottom includes a set of long-form BC’s from a woman who had twins at Kapiolani on 8-5-1961 who went to school with Obama.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090728/NEWS01/907280345/Hawaii+officials+confirm+Obama%E2%80%99s+original+birth+certificate+still+exists

These twins were born the day AFTER Obama AT KAPIOLANI. And their certificate numbers are LOWER than his (10637 and 10638). They were born 8-5-1961, the certificates were signed by mom 8-7-1961, signed by the MD 8-11-1961, and signed by the Registrar 8-11-1961.

THIS MEANS HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT BORN AT KAPIOLANI, because his BC number (born on Aug 4th and filed with Registrar Aug 8th) should have a lower number than the twins (Born Aug 5th at Kapiolani and filed with Registrar Aug 11th)


115 posted on 07/28/2009 12:18:07 PM PDT by DinkyJackson
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To: Genoa
"I know, I know. I was just saying that “African” is not a smoking gun."

But it is. The COLB asks for the race, not country of origin. The word used to describe blacks was Negro, which is a correct description of race regardless or country of origin.

"African" is the very incorrect but 'policically correct' stupidity that is being used today. It wasn't even a consideration when this COLB was said to be issued.

116 posted on 07/28/2009 12:20:52 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: x
Everything changed from 1960 to 1961? Or even from 1950 to 1961? Not likely. But if you were used to listing people as "Filipino" or "Portuguese" or "Puerto Rican" you wouldn't find "African" much of a stretch, all the more so if you didn't actually see that many "Negroes" around.

Again do you have any evidence anyone at all listed their race as "African"? I understand what you're offering as opinion, but I'm more interested in evidence.

117 posted on 07/28/2009 12:24:06 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: x
"But if you were used to listing people as "Filipino" or "Portuguese" or "Puerto Rican" you wouldn't find "African" much of a stretch, all the more so if you didn't actually see that many "Negroes" around."

Oh yes you would. There are plenty of black (or negro if you will ) people in the south Pacific. They don't and never have called them Africans, or identified them as having at one time in their ancestral past as having come from africa. That's because they aren't from Africa.

118 posted on 07/28/2009 12:28:03 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary
No. what if you were Jamaican, or from Belese? That would lump all black people together as being "African' when that would be both insulting and untrue.

Any racial classification is going to be found offensive to somebody.

My point was just that a state might not simply reuse racial categories of a half-century ago when it issues it's short form birth certificates.

It's entirely possible that Obama's original long-form said "African." I was simply suggesting that the possibility that someone's original long form might read "Negro" or "colored" while what they'd get from the state today might say "Black" or even "African-American."

119 posted on 07/28/2009 12:28:18 PM PDT by x
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To: DinkyJackson
Today, the Honolulu advertiser publishes a story, and at the bottom includes a set of long-form BC’s from a woman who had twins at Kapiolani on 8-5-1961 who went to school with Obama. http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090728/NEWS01/907280345/Hawaii+officials+confirm+Obama%E2%80%99s+original+birth+certificate+still+exists These twins were born the day AFTER Obama AT KAPIOLANI. And their certificate numbers are LOWER than his (10637 and 10638). They were born 8-5-1961, the certificates were signed by mom 8-7-1961, signed by the MD 8-11-1961, and signed by the Registrar 8-11-1961. THIS MEANS HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT BORN AT KAPIOLANI, because his BC number (born on Aug 4th and filed with Registrar Aug 8th) should have a lower number than the twins (Born Aug 5th at Kapiolani and filed with Registrar Aug 11th)

Great catch Dinky!

120 posted on 07/28/2009 12:28:39 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DinkyJackson
THIS MEANS HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT BORN AT KAPIOLANI, because his BC number (born on Aug 4th and filed with Registrar Aug 8th) should have a lower number than the twins (Born Aug 5th at Kapiolani and filed with Registrar Aug 11th)

Make this a new thread! It's more evidence that something is screwy.

121 posted on 07/28/2009 12:29:51 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: trueamerica

I’ve been betting all along that on the certificate (long) it read “African Arab” or just “Arab”, and on the certification (short) it was changed at the request of a Dunham or and Obama to just “African.”

BHO Sr. was of the Luo tribe and had a name that is a Romanized spelling of an Arabic name, and such Luo would never allow themselves to be called “Negro”.


122 posted on 07/28/2009 12:32:51 PM PDT by Poincare
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To: Deb
You should include Charlise Theron. She’s from South Africa which makes her African American.


Yup.... the resemblence to Barack Sr is UNCANNY! (/sarc)
123 posted on 07/28/2009 12:33:01 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: All
Someone may have already mentioned this and, if so, I apologize for the duplication -- however, In 1961 I don't believe the State of Hawaii was under any obligation to conform to federal rules or guidelines regarding race classification.

IOW, on a birth certificate Hawaii could, and probably did, accept "African" as designation for the black race. That is because the federally agreeable term, "white," wasn't necessarily being used by Hawaii as late as 1963 -- either.

The evidence for this is the redacted, but apparently actual, Certificate of Live Birth that's been on the Web for some time. This document shows the race of both parents as "Caucasian."

Certificate of Live Birth

Of, course, everything about this controversy is so screwy, nothing would surprise me.

---

Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
www.AnySoldier.com

124 posted on 07/28/2009 12:35:22 PM PDT by JCG
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To: Oldpuppymax; Polarik

Polarik says Obama did not request the COLB.

If there was a request for COLB from Obama, it should be on file, along with a copy of his paid invoice.

Are document requests public or private?


125 posted on 07/28/2009 12:35:56 PM PDT by JohnnyP
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To: DinkyJackson

That find increases the odds that OdumbO’s BC is a type 2.


126 posted on 07/28/2009 12:38:49 PM PDT by razorback-bert (We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers.)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Yes, “Negro” was the correct racial term to use in 1961. I absolutely agree with you. All I am saying is that there might have been an understandable motive for someone in 1961 such as a clerk or a nurse or a doctor to use the incorrect term “African” in this case: not wanting to use “Negro” for someone who was an educated gentleman from Kenya and wanting to create a distinction in his case. That said, I think the COLB is very fishy and would really like for Obama to come clean and release his long form.


127 posted on 07/28/2009 12:39:24 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: DinkyJackson

128 posted on 07/28/2009 12:39:42 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: Salamander

Oh yeah - The Mozambiqui! I almost forgot.


129 posted on 07/28/2009 12:40:49 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: JohnEBoy

That’s been my thought as well...it’s not a matter of where he was born (any record involved will inevitably show him born in Hawaii, fact or fiction)...but the long form is going to list him as Caucasian...goodbye first African-American President...magritte


130 posted on 07/28/2009 12:40:51 PM PDT by magritte ("I will give this monkey for lunch to Mr Sata,")
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To: Nathan Zachary
Whenever Stanley Ann and Madelyn Dunham showed up with the kid at whatever clinic to obtain a birth registration, the resident physician most likely took their statements, examined the kid and since the father was in absentia, went to default. Father; Unknown, Race; Caucasian (after the mother's race).

If this is the 'embarrassment' claimed by Obama's legal teams blocking discovery in court cases, it's weak....and so's his claim to being a 'Natural born citizen'.
131 posted on 07/28/2009 12:43:49 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Government needs a Keelhauling now and then.)
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To: trueamerica

Maybe they said African because he wasn’t an American.


132 posted on 07/28/2009 12:51:51 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: trueamerica
A lot of people dont know that until fairly recently mexicans were considered “white”

The democrats invented a new race, so they could peddle their race politics to them. You are either American Indian or white, there is no “hispanic” race.

133 posted on 07/28/2009 1:01:31 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied, the economy died)
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To: rxsid

I’m thinking they might be denying the BC thing to protect their own interests more than anything else. Perhaps they even privately think that there might be something to the BC issue — or perhaps not. But either way, they are denying that there is any “there there” simply to cover their butts and keep their ratings.

If they start beating like crazy on the BC issue, and Barry turns out to be a natural-born citizen all along, then they might have surmised that this would be a credibility loss and an embarrassment. On the other hand, if they insist that there is nothing to this issue, and there actually ends up being something there, then they can more easily just point to whatever revelations or evidence there is, and say “Wow, shocking new evidence, there is something to this after all, tune in to Hugh Hewitt for the explosive details....blah blah.” Not quite as bad.

I hope they’re not as cynically self-preservationist as that — maybe they just honestly don’t think anything is there on this issue — but the thought did cross my mind.


134 posted on 07/28/2009 1:06:38 PM PDT by RepublitarianRoger2
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To: AppyPappy

Kurt Tsue, a public relations officer for the Hawaii Department of Health answered this question almost a year ago. In 1961, Hawaii allowed the parents of a newborn to choose their own racial designation. Hawaii has always been the most multiracial state and its often difficult to assume a race from just looking at a person.
The following is from factcheck.org’s article on the Obama birth certificate: “Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn’t tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama’s father’s race listed as “African”? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that ‘we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.’ We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as “African.” It’s certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

The word “African” was chosen by Barack Obama Senior. It is still typical today for Black Africans to not use the word “Negro”, or any other American racial identifier, even “Black” to describe themselves.
Even in 2009 Africans often identify with a nation or a tribal group not a race.

There’s nothing to see here, move along now.


135 posted on 07/28/2009 1:07:23 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: kabar
You are missing the point. The USG sets the reporting parameters and defines how the data is reported so they can compile it nationally.

The obvious point you seem to be missing is that the USG gives parameters on how to report the race of the child. It doesn't tell parents what they can and cannot put down on the birth certificate. They can classify themselves however they want. If you don't like any of the race categories listed, you can just check "other" and fill in what you want to call yourself.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/birth11-03final-ACC.pdf

Duh. I can't believe how stupid the birther arguments have become.

136 posted on 07/28/2009 1:08:53 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: DinkyJackson

WOW!!! Great catch.

Make this a new thread please.


137 posted on 07/28/2009 1:10:15 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: fso301
In point of fact, the father classified himself.

It seems pretty plausible to me that African man would prefer to classify himself as "African" than as "Negro," given that Pan-African nationalism was so much in vogue at the time.

138 posted on 07/28/2009 1:11:18 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: Aria

Great find!!! Its the pesky litle details that trip up the big lies.

BOR has some agenda on this “BC problem” and won’t give a hoot about silly little facts.


139 posted on 07/28/2009 1:11:56 PM PDT by dusttoyou (Remember the Alamo Tea Party - PALIN 2012)
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To: kabar
In the late 60’s my grandmother worked at Sears in HR. She had to fill out a federal form that listed the races of all employees. The designation was COIN. Caucasian, Oriental, Indian (American) and Negro. If that helps.
140 posted on 07/28/2009 1:15:21 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: DouglasKC
I'm not an expert in this. "Recoding" goes on a lot. What the mother gives as her race and her child's, is translated into one of five or so racial categories when it's sent to state authorities for government statistics.

Does the race the mother gives appear on the birth certificate issued to the family and the record kept at the clerk's office even if it doesn't fit into pre-established categories? I don't know. I haven't seen enough birth certificates.

In some states at around the time Obama was born, the clerk or the state might simply reject what the mother said. But in others there might be a discrepancy between the record for the family and the record given the state health authorities.

So, yes, until I see more birth certificates, it's more of a gut feeling, but I don't think a Hawaiian clerk would have rejected "African" as a racial label. And that would stay on the birth certificate, though the information would be recoded when it was compiled for official statistics. But I'd have to actually see examples to be sure of what's more of a hunch.

Nowadays only 5 states still list the race of the child on birth certificates. Hawaii is one of them.

In censuses you can give your race as you like. It either gets recoded as one of the government categories or as "Other."

141 posted on 07/28/2009 1:15:49 PM PDT by x
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To: mquinn
Do you really think a black man in 1961 is going to self-identify as a “Negro” ?

Yes, that is precisely how they identified themselves in 1961. It was better and more modern than "colored" which had recently fallen into disuse.

142 posted on 07/28/2009 1:16:51 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: trueamerica

Add more to Obama’s lengthy trail of suspicions.

Why is it so, so important for Obama to spend over a million dollars in legal fees to keep his original long form birth certificate hidden from the American people? That speaks for itself.


143 posted on 07/28/2009 1:30:34 PM PDT by real_patriotic_american
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To: RepublitarianRoger2
"and Barry turns out to be a natural-born citizen all along"

Your not alleging that by simply being born in HI (assuming it's true), that he would then be considered a NBC, are you?

I've yet to find any judicial or legislative writings or opinions that state being born to a foreign national father would mean one is NBC.

Leo's trying (again) to hammer this important point home:

Hawaii Health Department’s Fukino Now Constitutional Lawyer?

144 posted on 07/28/2009 1:31:05 PM PDT by rxsid
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To: rxsid
"Leo's trying (again) to hammer this important point home:"

So is Mario, of course (that Barry couldn't be NBC, even IF born in HI, assuming BHO sr. is his father):

Washington Times National Weekly, 20 July 2009 issue - Advertorial on Page 9

145 posted on 07/28/2009 1:47:07 PM PDT by rxsid
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To: Salamander
The *original* Mr. Heinz must of been HARD UP.
146 posted on 07/28/2009 2:13:54 PM PDT by wolfcreek (KMTEXASA!)
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To: rxsid

“Your not alleging that by simply being born in HI (assuming it’s true), that he would then be considered a NBC, are you?”

No! I’m not sure how my words gave that impression. I just said that if it does turn out that Barry is a natural-born citizen (through indisputable evidence that shows it), then...[fill in rest of my original post].


147 posted on 07/28/2009 2:22:33 PM PDT by RepublitarianRoger2
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To: trueamerica

Just a note to the idiots at DU, who have flagged this thread as being racist...this has nothing to do with racism, it is about standard terminology that was used on birth certificates at the time of his birth vs. the terminology used today. You need to be exposed for the freaking morons you are if you believe this is about race.


148 posted on 07/28/2009 2:34:37 PM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: RepublitarianRoger2

OK. I just couldn’t understand how it could ‘turn out that he is NBC’, as if when the HI long form is finally revealed.


149 posted on 07/28/2009 2:34:40 PM PDT by rxsid
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To: jamese777

So we should think that the Doctor and Nurse filling out the BC paperwork instead let the father fill in the section marked RACE with a designation that was technically incorrect? By this token the Caucasian designation would have been marked WHITE? This might very well happen nowdays, with all the dumbdown PC publik skool edicashun.

Reality is that the Nurse takes down the pertenient information and later fills in the blanks. Yes the father could have claimed AFRICAN, but certainly in 1961 this would not have been considered RACE and the person charged with completing the form would have marked NEGRO or NEGROID.


150 posted on 07/28/2009 2:45:58 PM PDT by dusttoyou (Remember the Alamo Tea Party - PALIN 2012)
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