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Is this really it? (re: possible Obama's Kenyan B.C. - Attny Taitz) Click on the link
orlytaitzesq.com ^ | 8/2/2009 | rxsid

Posted on 08/02/2009 1:35:53 AM PDT by rxsid

Edited on 08/06/2009 12:10:02 AM PDT by John Robinson. [history]

Attorney Taitz filed a NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION to Expedite authentication, MOTION for Issuance of Letters Rogatory for authenticity of Kenyan birth certificate filed by Plaintiff Alan Keyes PhD.

Barry's Kenyan B.C.??

Special Motion for leave

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/ (site has been the target of hackers, proceed with caution — John)


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
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To: little jeremiah
That's what paranoid liars do....they become paranoid about everything....and with their positions can act like chavez would act...however, it is way tooooooo early in this administration to be conducting their selves in this manner....didn't they realize by destroying the economy this fast...then pulling this health care bs this fast...in only a matter of months...these guys are much more cooked and very close to ... well ... you get the picture.

Look at the Clintons' this week both very pro American stance. [Look at the picture of Bill with NK's Leader...all the pictures NO smile whatsoever...he was sending a message to us. Bill is always all smiles in all pictures taken of him...not these pictures.]...tic toc tic toc...it is closer to blowing than most realize...

8,051 posted on 08/07/2009 9:15:34 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Salamander; Swordmaker; MHGinTN

Oh now, be nice to Swordmaker. He’s just trying to help, lol.

I can’t claim to have originated the neologism, though. All due credit belongs to MHGinTN.


8,052 posted on 08/07/2009 9:23:35 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

Old “Evening At The Improv” stuff.
First time I saw him...this isn’t all of it and the announcer is annoying but the guy is a shapeshifter....:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrEReS06Ed8


8,053 posted on 08/07/2009 9:28:11 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: hoosiermama

Okay....;]


8,054 posted on 08/07/2009 9:28:57 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: RegulatorCountry

I meant for *0*....:))


8,055 posted on 08/07/2009 9:29:40 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: hoosiermama

I have visions of the Chief Inspector Dreyfus in Pink Panther, slowly developing more and more tics and quirks as he goes insane.


8,056 posted on 08/07/2009 9:34:58 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

I try, I try. But none seem to want my latest neologism: prick ... small, irritating nettle.


8,057 posted on 08/07/2009 9:38:34 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Lancelot Jones

“Both things are equally unquestionable...he is Constitutionally unqualified to hold the office, and his holding the office constitutes a high crime, and as such, he should be [impeached] *arrested* and removed from office.”

There. Fixed it.

Only actual Presidents can be impeached. Imposters and usurpers need to be arrested and charged with crimes.


8,058 posted on 08/07/2009 9:44:44 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: hoosiermama

LIARS, Deceivers...become very very paranoid...and as he loses his popularity...he is so mentally unstable...he’ll crack...


8,059 posted on 08/07/2009 9:45:35 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Salamander

Think of it as somehow part of a divine plan.... I’m not kidding! Your intention was good. And that’s what counts the most.


8,060 posted on 08/07/2009 9:45:46 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Salamander

Are you the Slamander of the now infamous Salamander version?

I think Night-Line did a special on that didnt they?


8,061 posted on 08/07/2009 9:51:47 PM PDT by woofie
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To: MHGinTN
Yes, I agree; all we have is Barry's word that Barack Senior was his father. I think we can only assume he is telling us the truth. Clearly, from the two “auto” biographies, he has been establishing his history for at least ten years. With that much work spent on preparing him, I think it less likely that they would have intentionally chosen someone who makes him natural born than that things are as he says. Where he is born may be in question, but, as I know you know, doesn't affect his eligibility.
8,062 posted on 08/07/2009 9:52:07 PM PDT by Spaulding
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To: shield
You might find the following a good listen ... though frightening because it is so right on the money about Obama's malignant state.

Sam Vaknin, expert on malignant narcissism:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Player.htm#0#1258

8,063 posted on 08/07/2009 9:52:23 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: shield

I will admit I made a prediction months ago that he would have a nervous breakdown. Go mental. Have a huge fit. Require the jacket with long sleeves. Have attendants come and take him away. Become heavily medicated.

Etc. Maybe go back to crack? Or whatever it was that he used to do?


8,064 posted on 08/07/2009 9:52:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Salamander
I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure I saw him in 1980 or 1981, performing as the villan, in a dinner theater in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

He stole the show.

8,065 posted on 08/07/2009 9:53:04 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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To: 1-Eagle
7,928 posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 18:28:36 by 1-Eagle
 
said: 
 
To: Lancelot Jones
Can you please state which section of the law specifically states that the father must be a citizen in order to be a "natural born citizen"?

Also, if that is the case, then why all this effort about the BC? If he is disqualified on this simple basis, then what happens next?

An article was written no long ago referencing "Obama losing control of the military" because of this mess. One way or another thus must be resolved now.

--------------------

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=227

 

 

Page 104 of 755,






8,066 posted on 08/07/2009 9:53:13 PM PDT by Corazon (Obama the usurper)
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To: little jeremiah

Hope He tells me what the plan is, soon...:)


8,067 posted on 08/07/2009 9:53:47 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: MHGinTN
Keep the pressure on.....Maybe we should create our own “real” BC...and REALLY let him panic.
8,068 posted on 08/07/2009 9:53:59 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: woofie

“I think Night-Line did a special on that didnt they?”

Please...somebody with a GOOD AIM, just shoot me!


8,069 posted on 08/07/2009 9:54:32 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

His stand-up is much better than his movies.

The first time I saw him do like 20 perfect impersonations in a row, I was just floored!


8,070 posted on 08/07/2009 9:56:07 PM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away..............)
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To: shield

That’s what dad and I said way back in the spring.

He has these grand ideas about himself.....Boy is he going to be disappointed when he’s not as great as he thinks he is....


8,071 posted on 08/07/2009 9:57:50 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: Salamander

Newly discovered childhood home of President Barack Obama

8,072 posted on 08/07/2009 9:59:41 PM PDT by woofie
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To: little jeremiah

Maybe go back to crack? I’ve wondered if he doesn’t do a little just because HE CAN.


8,073 posted on 08/07/2009 9:59:50 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: MHGinTN; hoosiermama

Jack Wheeler has been saying for months....he’d crack...he says the man is so unstable once he really starts to drop in the polls...he’ll go bongers.....we already saw it start with his recent speech...


8,074 posted on 08/07/2009 10:00:51 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: shield

He is so dependant on tele....that he gets himself in trouble whenever he open his mouth without it...


8,075 posted on 08/07/2009 10:03:32 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: woofie

And it’s for sale! Watta deal!!


8,076 posted on 08/07/2009 10:05:58 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: hoosiermama

Does he ever....he just goes off like some loony tune...Americans mouths drop open...not believing what they are hearing.....but all of us knew and are laughing our A’s off...we’re not surprised...at all...


8,077 posted on 08/07/2009 10:06:54 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: woofie

WOW...what a find.......


8,078 posted on 08/07/2009 10:08:37 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Corazon

Um, that version was replaced in 1795. But nice try, obamanoid.


8,079 posted on 08/07/2009 10:09:57 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Corazon
Psssst *little fun widya on the 'obamanoid' thing*

Seriously, the term natural born citizen was specifically removed for the 1795 version.

8,080 posted on 08/07/2009 10:12:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; shield

I was in Midland Texas not long ago and drove by the boyhood home of President GW Bush ...I did not go inside...but from the outside it is suprisingly modest.

They had quite a crowd of kids in there and I dont know where they put them all


8,081 posted on 08/07/2009 10:17:00 PM PDT by woofie
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To: MHGinTN
From attorney Mario Apuzzo:

“Thursday, August 6, 2009

 

Why the “Natural Born Citizen” Clause of Our Constitution Is Important and Worth Preserving

Article II, Sec. 1, cl. 5 of the Constitution provides in pertinent part: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President. . .” In this clause and in Articles I, III, and IV, the Founding Fathers distinguished between “Citizen” and “natural born Citizen.” Per the Founders, while Senators and Representatives can be just “citizens,” the President must be a “natural born Citizen.” Through this clause, the Founders sought to guarantee that the ideals for which they fought would be faithfully preserved for future generations of Americans. The Founders wanted to assure that the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military, a non-collegial and unique and powerful civil and military position, was free of all foreign influence and that its holder has sole and absolute allegiance, loyalty, and attachment to the U.S. The “natural born Citizen” clause was the best way for them to assure this.

 

That the “natural born Citizen” clause is based on undivided allegiance and loyalty can be seen from how the Founders distinguished between “citizen” and “natural born Citizen.” This distinction is based on the law of nations which became part of our national common law. According to that law as explained by E. Vattel in his, The Law of Nations (1758), a “citizen” is a member of the civil society. To become a “citizen” is to enter into society as a member thereof. On the other hand, a native or indigenes or “natural born Citizen” is a child born in the country of two citizen parents who have already entered into and become members of the society. Vattel also tells us that it is the “natural born Citizen” who will best preserve and perpetuate the society. This definition of the two distinct terms has been adopted by many United States Supreme Court decisions. (The Venus, 12 U.S. 253 (1814) and Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874) to cite just two.) With the presidential qualification question never being involved, neither the 14th Amendment (which covers only “citizens” who are permitted to gain membership in and enter American society by either birth on U.S. soil or by naturalization and being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States), nor Congressional Acts (8 U.S.C. Sec. 1401), nor any case law (e.g. U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)) has ever changed the original common law definition of a “natural born Citizen.” This amendment and laws have all dealt with the sole question of whether a particular person was going to be allowed to enter into and be a member of American society and thereby be declared a “citizen.” The 14th Amendment did not involve Article II, let alone define what a “natural born Citizen” is. Never having been changed, the original constitutional meaning of a “natural born Citizen” prevails today. We can also see from these definitions that a “citizen” could have more than one allegiance and loyalty (acquiring allegiance from one’s foreign parents or from foreign soil) but a “natural born Citizen” can have only one and that is to America (soil and parents are all united in one nation).

The original definition of “natural born Citizen” gives our Constitutional Republic the best chance of having a President and Commander in Chief of the Military who has sole and absolute allegiance, loyalty, and attachment to the United States. By satisfying all conditions of this definition, all other avenues of acquiring other foreign citizenships and allegiances (jus soli or by the soil and jus sanguinis or by descent) are cut off. Having all other means of acquiring other foreign citizenships or allegiances cut off is unity of citizenship which is what the President must have at the time of birth. Additionally, by requiring the child’s parents to be U.S. citizens best assures that those parents most likely will have absorbed American customs and values which, in turn, they will transmit to their child.

The “natural born Citizen” clause serves a critical purpose today and must be enforced in every Presidential election. The President has immense power, both civil and military. The clause assures the American people that their President does not have any conflicting allegiances or loyalties. In our nuclear world, it will avoid having a President who may hesitate to act quickly and decisively in a moment of crisis due to some internal psychological conflict of allegiance or loyalty. It will avoid any foreign nation expecting and pressuring the President to act in their best interest instead of that of America. The clause gives the American people the best chance that they will not be attacked from within through the Office of President. Knowing the President is a “natural born Citizen,” the American people will trust their President with their lives. Finally, such a President can expect that the military will give him or her full trust and obedience.

When President Obama was born in 1961, under the British Nationality Act 1948, both his father and he were British subjects/citizens. In 1963, they both became Kenyan citizens. In fact, Mr. Obama’s father was never even a legal resident or immigrant of America. Hence, regardless of where Mr. Obama was born or that he may be a United States citizen under the 14th Amendment, he is not an Article II “natural born Citizen” and not eligible to be President. This ineligibility has absolutely nothing to do with his race or class but all to do with his being born with multiple citizenships and allegiances and not satisfying the strict eligibility requirements of Article II. If someone believes that today the “natural born Citizen” clause no longer serves any useful purpose, then the proper way to change or abandon it is by way of constitutional amendment under Article V of the Constitution, not by usurpation.

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.”

Read more about the lawsuit here:
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-natural-born-citizen-clause-is.html

8,082 posted on 08/07/2009 10:19:37 PM PDT by Corazon (Obama the usurper)
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To: woofie

I thought they only had W, Jeb and Robin when they lived there. Then little Robin died.


8,083 posted on 08/07/2009 10:24:23 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: shield

You are probably right and other kids came later...


8,084 posted on 08/07/2009 10:34:52 PM PDT by woofie
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To: MHGinTN

I rather enjoyed your turn of phrase “tinkling in the tea” in reference to suspected n00b trolls, but it doesn’t seem to have caught on. Pity, that.


8,085 posted on 08/07/2009 10:35:26 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: shield

They moved shortly after Marvin was born, IIRC. Late 1956ish.


8,086 posted on 08/07/2009 10:36:02 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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To: All
Newsmax.com has an interesting article talking about the birthplaces of, so far, 43 presidential birth places, but none yet commemorating Mr. Obama:

1. George Washington — Address: George Washington Birthplace National Monument; Rural Route 1; Box 717; Washington’s Birthplace, Va. 22443

2. John Adams — Address: 133 Franklin St.; Quincy, Mass. 02669

3.Thomas Jefferson — Address: U.S. 250; 3 miles east of Charlottesville, Va.

4. James Madison — Address: Monroe Hall; Virginia SR 205; Westmoreland County near Colonial Beach, Va. 22443

5.James Monroe — Address: Monroe Hall; Virginia SR 205; Westmoreland County near Colonial Beach, Va. 22443

6.John Quincy Adams — Address: 141 Franklin St.; Quincy, Mass. 02169

7.Andrew Jackson — Address: 14 miles south of Rock Hill on South Carolina State Route 5. The Park is on Route 1. Address:196 Andrew Jackson Park Road; Lancaster, S.C. 29720

8.Martin Van Buren — Address: 46 Hudson St.; Kinderhook, New York 12106

9.William Henry Harrison — Address: 12602 Harrison Landing Road; Charles City, Va. 23030

10. John Tyler — Address: John Tyler Memorial Highway; Charles City, Va. 23030

11. James Polk — Address: Box 475; Pineville, N.C. 28134







12. Zachary Taylor — Address: Highway 33; 5 miles west of Gordonsville, Va., and just over 20 miles from Charlottesville, Va.

13. Millard Fillmore — Address: Millard Fillmore Birthplace; Locke, N.Y. 13092

14. Franklin Pierce — Address: The Pierce Homestead; Routes 9 and 31; Hillsboro, N.H. 03244

15. James Buchanan — Address: Buchanan Historic Site; Mercersburg, Pa. 17236

16. Abraham Lincoln — Address: Sinking Spring Farm; 2995 Lincoln Farm Road; Hodgenville, Ky. 42748

17. Andrew Johnson — Address: Mordecai Historic Park; Wake Forest Road; Raleigh, N.C. 27601

18. Ulysses Grant — Address: Grant’s Birthplace; Routes 52E and 322; Point Pleasant, Ohio 45143

19. Rutherford Hayes — Address: Rutherford B. Hayes Birthplace; East William Street; Delaware, Ohio 43015

20. James Garfield — Address: James A. Garfield Birthplace; 4350 S.O.M Center Road; Moreland Hills (now Chagrin Falls); Cuyahoga County, Ohio 44022

21. Chester Arthur — Address: Chester A. Arthur State Historic Site; Route 36; Fairfield, Vt. 05455

22. Grover Cleveland — Address: Grover Cleveland Birthplace State Historic Site; 207 Bloomfield Avenue; Caldwell, N.J. 07006

23. Benjamin Harrison — Address: Benjamin Harrison Birthplace; William Henry Harrison Home; Symmes and Washington Avenues; North Bend, Ohio 45052

24. Grover Cleveland — Address: Grover Cleveland Birthplace State Historic Site; 207 Bloomfield Avenue; Caldwell, N.J. 07006

25. William McKinley — Address: William McKinley Birthplace; 36 S. Main St.; Niles, Ohio 44446

26. Theodore Roosevelt — Address: Theodore Roosevelt Birthplace National Historic Site; 28 East 20th St.; New York, N.Y. 10003

27. William Taft — Address: 2038 Auburn Ave., Cincinnati, Ohio 45219

28. Woodrow Wilson — Address: 18-24 Coalter Street, Staunton, Va. 24401

29. Warren Harding — Address: Highways 97 and 288, Blooming Grove, Ohio 44878

30. Calvin Coolidge — Address: P.O. Box 247, Plymouth, Vermont 05056

31. Herbert Hoover — Address: West Branch, Iowa 52538

32. Franklin Roosevelt — Address: 519 Albany Post Road, Hyde Park, N.Y. 12538

33. Harry Truman — Address: 1009 Truman Ave., Lamar, Mo. 64759

34. Dwight Eisenhower — Address: 208 East Day St., Denison, Texas 75020

35. John Kennedy — Address: 83 Beals St., Brookline, Mass. 02146

36. Lyndon Johnson — Address: Box 329 Johnson City, Texas 78636

37. Richard Nixon — Address: 18001 Yorba Linda Blvd., Yorba Linda, Calif. 92686

38. Gerald Ford — Address: 3202 Woolworth Ave, Omaha, Neb. 68103

39. James Carter — Address: 300 North Bond St., Plains, Ga. 31780

40. Ronald Reagan — Address: 119 S. Main St., Tampico, Ill. 61283

41. George H.W. Bush — Address: 173 Adams St, Milton, Mass. 02187

42. Bill Clinton — Address: Bill Clinton was born at the Julia Chester Hospital in Hope, Ark. The hospital has been demolished.

43. George W. Bush — Address: George W. was born to Barbara and George Bush in what was then Grace-New Haven Community Hospital and is now Yale-New Haven Hospital.

44. Barack Obama — Address: Unknown.

VIDEO "BORN IN THE USA"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCzmLfsdhjY


8,087 posted on 08/07/2009 10:37:59 PM PDT by Corazon (Obama the usurper)
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To: RegulatorCountry

They are also like the talking potholes in the latest Geico commercial.


8,088 posted on 08/07/2009 10:38:15 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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To: Spaulding

Charges made “upon information and belief” comprise a legitimate complaint in our judicial system.


8,089 posted on 08/07/2009 10:40:41 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: MHGinTN
I try, I try. But none seem to want my latest neologism: prick ... small, irritating nettle.

Oh, but that neologism minimizes what he really is... a large, poisonous thorn.

8,090 posted on 08/07/2009 10:40:41 PM PDT by Swordmaker (remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Corazon

Boy, do I wish he’d help Orly with her cases...


8,091 posted on 08/07/2009 10:43:25 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: woofie
Read Barbara's book...they are very non pretentious. She tells a story when they were vacationing in the Maine home how some king came to stay and wanted to cook....So much food they had to call the neighbors in to eat all the food...

It was only after the king left that she realized she'd left the note up she had posted for the grand-kids...”pick up your wet towels, who do you think I am the maid?”

8,092 posted on 08/07/2009 10:48:16 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: hoosiermama

Barbara is my favorite...no getting around her


8,093 posted on 08/07/2009 10:55:41 PM PDT by woofie
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To: woofie

When mama first got sick, they asked her who the president was...Her reply “I’m not sure but I sure do like his wife, Mrs. Bush!”


8,094 posted on 08/07/2009 10:58:09 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: woofie; Salamander

Awwww ... now that was just mean ... LOL..


8,095 posted on 08/07/2009 11:10:36 PM PDT by STARWISE (The Art & Science Institute of Chicago Politics NE Div: now open at the White House)
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To: RegulatorCountry
“Upon information and belief?” Is this the legal principle which requires that “officers of the court” act to address wrongs? It would be important to know if our elected or appointed legal representatives have some responsibility to address wrongs. Can they be held liable (allowing that intent might be hard to show) for not acting?

I will never forget being at a post-trial party with my girl friend, a court translator. A Spaniard working on a North Sea oil rig had been hit by rigging, and was suing in the U.S. for his injuries - he was blinded and lost his ability to talk because of a spinal injury - even though neither the companies involved or the injured were American. The worker won. Both prosecution and defense were at the party, and so was the Spanish oil worker, who was dancing, watching beautiful lawyer's wives, and talking with my girl friend.

What does this have to do with legal responsibilities? I wonder if we have a corrupt legal profession which sees that this is where the remaining money is, a socialist system where they will be both the masters and the beneficiaries? They produce nothing, and will not be lawmakers in China or India or Russia or Brazil or ...

8,096 posted on 08/07/2009 11:23:53 PM PDT by Spaulding
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To: Spaulding

The deVattel argument is also pretty pathetic:

Birfers are citing the English translation of deVattel that dates to 1883, almost 100 years after the Constitution was written. If the founders of the Constitution used the original French of deVattel, then the phrase he used was “Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.”

The first English translation of deVattel’s work was published in London in 1760:

“”The citizens are the members of the civil fociety: bound to this fociety by certain duties, and fubject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or indigenes, are those born in the country of parents who are citizens.”

Nothing about a “natural born citizen” there. “Natives” or “indigenes” is the term deVattel used.

The first American version was in 1787, and the wording is identical. It’s hard to see how the Framers of the Constitution would have used deVattel to define a term that wasn’t in any of the translations available at that time or in the original French.

The Framers of the Constitution were more familar with English common law and, indeed, the Colonists had followed it before the Revolutionary War, and after the nation was founded. William Blackstone was considered the leading commentator on the Common Law and he concluded that under English Common Law either place of birth or citizenship of overseas parents was the key to citizenship at birth. For example, as he wrote in 1753:

“THE firft and moft obvious divifion of the people is into aliens and natural-born fubjects. Natural-born fubjects are fuch as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the ligeance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king; and aliens, fuch as are born out of it.”

English common law held that in English Law the following two types of children would be considered natural-born subjects of the crown of England: (1) a child born in England of aliens of England, and (2) a child born outside England of natural-born subjects of the crown of England.


8,097 posted on 08/07/2009 11:55:30 PM PDT by Technical Editor
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To: Technical Editor

Where did you get your 18th-century translations of Vattel?

Or are you just cut&pasting from another website?


8,098 posted on 08/08/2009 12:01:42 AM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: Plummz

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/05/de-vattel-revisited/


8,099 posted on 08/08/2009 12:36:33 AM PDT by Technical Editor
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To: Technical Editor
Food for thought.

Natural - functioning or occurring in a normal way, lacking abnormalities or deficiencies, related by blood; not adopted.

Born - brought into existence.

Citizen - A person that is a legally recognized as a member of a state, with associated rights and obligations; A member of a state that is not a monarchy; used as antonym to subject.

Native - an indigenous person who was born in a particular place, belonging to one by birth, a person born in a particular place or country, one who is born into.

Indigenous - natural to a country or region, native.

8,100 posted on 08/08/2009 1:06:06 AM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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