Skip to comments.Fake Obama Kenya birth certificate?
Posted on 08/02/2009 4:56:30 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
And then one of our moderators spotted this:
It has several clues, but also there's this question:
Who is E. F. Lavender?
Earth Friendly Lavender detergent?
I noticed that too, but whose to say, it was not just a typo on the original copy. Everything on there looks legit to me from what I can tell, and it only leads to more questions and only answers a few things. We will just have to wait and see, I want to get a more creditable source on this.
Orly has made so many claims that turned out to be false in the past; and she has been duped so many times by Obama’s lawyers that my first reaction to anything Orly says is disbelief. Everyone who has associated with Orly has been harmed in one way or another.
I would like to believe that the smoking gun has been discovered but I expect this to be yet another humiliation for Orly and all the “birthers” by association.
I noticed more red flags in the WND report. The title of this story ends with a Question mark (Is this really smoking gun of Obama’s Kenyan birth?); and there is no WND reporter listed as reporter on this story.
Orly first starting going off on strange tangents when she called on Active Military officers to denounce Obama. Lt. Scott Easterling followed Orly’s advice and immediately got in hot water with the Army. Orly’s response to this controversy was, “...there will not be a serious consequence to his career [for his statements], but I don’t know for sure.” Pardon me, it is a lawyers job to know the potential consequences, for sure, before said lawyer advises a client.
The Lt. Easterling incident was bad enough, but she then she went on the G. Gordon Liddy Show and said that all Supreme Court Justices and all members of Congress had committed “felonies.”
Most recently Orly involved Major Stefan Cook in two of her “cases;” the first “case” was dismissed post haste as being moot. The second employment discrimination “case” was summarily dismissed because Orly failed to follow proper procedure (known by any employment lawyer) and first file the claim with Equal Employment Opportunities Commission. The net result for Major Cook in his two cases with Orly is that he lost his civilian job at Simtech.
Some of what Orly proclaims is correct, i.e., it is arguable that Obama is an illegal alien and it is definite that he is not a Natural Born Citizen, according to the requirements of Article II of the United States Constitution; but Orly, to use Obama’s word, is an “imperfect” messenger, the perfect foil for the Obama misinformation campaign.
How can a person whose own Citizenship, Allegiances, Licenses and Degrees are suspect question Obama? To use the colloquial, Orly’s papers are not exactly in order.
http://defendourfreedoms.net/2009/06/11/berg-states-orly-taitz-has-gone-too-far-berg-sues- taitz-for-violating-individuals-basic-rights—privacy-by-revealing-birth-dates-and-social- security-numbers.aspx
Thank you. I have already had my say insofar as he is concerned. The FACTS in that post are wrong.
I don’t think I have gone from foolish to fool quite yet.
You may be right about the pic itself. However, WND (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764) clearly states :
WND was able to obtain other birth certificates from Kenya for purposes of comparison, and the form of the documents appear to be identical.
Orly is an intelligent person. So either is so desperate to get BO that she will grasp at anything or she has become a full-fledged BO Agent.
I hate to rain on everybody’s parade , but I honestly think that Obama and his handlers covered ALL bases before he was nominated, which would explain why Hilary and McCain didn’t find anything . The puppermasters have been grooming Barry for many years . I can’t believe they left any stone unturned . Many payoffs in Africa , Hawaii and elsewhere . Nobody wants to DIE over this . And I’m sure many have been threatened already , inc. Orly Taitz .
You are trying to shut down any investigation and debate. You are also assuming that people cannot do more than one thing at a time.
Free Republic is not the same activist site it once was.
You know, after a while, that line gets really old. It gets used everytime someone gets disagreed with.
**Earth Friendly Lavender detergent?**
Good one, Jim.
One forgery is as good as another so which BC are we to believe?
THAT ALONE should force Obamas hand into having to open up the vital records Fukina is sitting on.
GOOD POINTS ALL -- GRANNY!
Dude! WHAT in the WORLD are you talking about?!
He said he says 'he thinks Obama was born in Hawaii' but he still wants to check out his birth certificate.
Yes, Bill Cunningham has gone as far as most would not dare to go on this one. He is very astute and knows what ridicule, Alinsky style can do to people. This ridicule he has defanged., by steering clear of non proved statements by himself. Bill has again and again had people call in about the BC issue and indeed has had on Dr Jerome Corsi.
You will know this, but I thought I would put in a plug for Bill, as I check out my fading signal from Cleveland. Live streaming does not extend to Canada.
If you just Google the name you will see several stories connected with it. Like I said, I need to keep digging
. ."at the inauguration. . he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath.". .
The UK kept duplicate records of almost everything from their colonies and protectorates in Britain. And right now, they are not so enamored of our new 0verlord.
Brit Intel might have “allowed” this to leak. They are insulted by this man. Perhaps they even fear him.
They are also very upset with the number of their military troops being killed in Afghanistan because of 0’s ineptitude.
Bump for later
You may want to go back and read your posts. Or we are having a very strong miscommunication? Intent is not always correctly interpreted through online postings. What say you?
“If you had read the WND article, you would see that they DID compare it to another certificate from the same period and THEY MATCHED. And both were signed by E.F. Lavender! “
I went back and reread the entire article. I can’t find the part where it says the comparison birth certificates were signed by Lavender. Am I missing something?
While you were sleeping, Hillary somehow convinced Obama to let her be Secretary of State, as well as appointing several people from the Clinton machine into various cabinet and admin jobs.
She was using "something" for leverage.
Orly may not be perfect, but a lot of lawyers make a lot of mistakes and screw over clients in a more malicious way. I don’t think a Palin or Joe the Plumber treatment of her is the answer. Joe the Plumber says some things he shouldn’t and probably screwed up a few toilet replacements too, right? If he was offering free plumbing services to all Americans it would be buyer beware, just like anything else.
What stuns me is all these ‘facts’ that the forger had to know in order to make it. At first glance, someone would shout ‘forgery’ by saying Kenya wasn’t a Republic at that time period. But it ends up being true. Not only would a forger have to be good at making such a type written document, he would have to know all these little ‘facts’ that even some history books have wrong.
If it is a forgery, it is a damn good one, and I give applause to the forger.
Understanding that the Oath of Office was perjured might shed some light on the odd behavior all around, when the Oath was administered, twice, once in private.
Maybe, except that the document was filed on February 17, or the 47th day of 1964. That could explain the 47 just as much as Obama’s age would. This may have been the 44th record filed on the 47th day of 1964.
This really has nothing to do with Orly. It has everything to do with the birth certificate in question.
Orly has faults. But deconstructing her doesn’t change any facts.
Good Lord. You’d think that post would put an end to all of this!
Welcome to FR. Come here to bad mouth a patriot like Orly?
‘The Truth Always Rises To The Surface’
(and it will on Obama’s hidden records too)
WND was able to obtain other birth certificates from Kenya for purposes of comparison, and the form of the documents appear to be identical.
It's the 4th paragraph / text block.
Yeah! What’s everyone doing discussing this and trying to verify as much information as possible when all they have to do is just listen to one guy’s incorrect ‘facts’ debunking it!
Interesting that your copy here has a rip in it....the one I have seen doesn’t.
48th - my bad
This was an attempt by a FReeper to make the document more readable with Photoshop. It is nothing more than a manipulation of the other picture on the red tablecloth.
It's your truth. Not 3 weeks ago, The Boss posted that he'd put Freepers up against anybody. And win.
Ill put you guys up post for post, dollar per dollar, man to man, brain cell to brain cell against any other political forum on the Internet and you will shine through magnificently! No other political forum, no other group of citizen patriots can hold a candle to the FReepers!!
the copy that skr has was done by someone here at FR i order to try and make it more readable.
The rip and edges happened when he took out the background.
you’re not missing anything, you are completely correct, frac is pushing a falsehood by accident here.
This has already been addressed. It was confirmed to be an edit job from another member, and wasn’t meant to be used as an official display of the document. From what I understand, it was run through some filters to try to better make out the lettering. This was settled in the 4,000+ thread from earlier this morning. :) If you want more info, FreepMail me.
I hope you don’t truly believe that the BC issue is the only reason Obama’s poll numbers have dropped. Unemployment is at 9.5%; some estimate the true figure to be closer to 20%. The stock market was over 12,000 when he received the nomination and dropped to 6500 shortly after his election. Taxpayers are 1 Trillion dollars in debt personally from his actions since taking office, and have noticed that the “change” he promised was not the one they thought they were going to get. He has taken over banks, the auto industry, census, and is working on health care, energy, food and education.
Delete the copy with the black background. Salamander made that copy for another user on the main thread to make it easier to read. It is not ripped, he admittedly just isn’t very good with photoshop. There is nothing to this picture.
I'm not a big fan of Orly Taitz, either. I've been here since early '05, lurked regularly since the Florida recount fiasco, and firmly support the objective of establishing Obama's eligibility or the lack of it.
There isn't anything untrue that I can see, about those comments and links.
She's doing far more harm than good, imho.
How do you impeach an unqualified/fraudulent potus?
Answer: you put him in jail instead.
I REALLY have to go to bed. It's late and been a hectic day here.
Please read the following about the "ten mile strip" of what is now "Coastal Province":
The Constitution of Kenya Review Commission - [Cached Version] and MY personal favorites: * I wonder what they might have called themselves in the interim, to ensure they wouldn't be annexed by Zanzibar, you know, BEFORE the whole of Kenya became a Republic on Dec. 12, 1964? *
Published on: 9/1/2002
Views were divided as to whether the coastal strip should be treated as a single entity with Kenya Colony, or whether it should be handed back to the Sultan of Zanzibar or it be treated as an independent entity and declared Independent.
In a report submitted to the British Government and the Sultan of Zanzibar entitled ‘The Kenya Coastal Strip Ð Report by the Commissioner’ Mr. Robertson recommended that the coastal strip be incorporated into Kenya before self government and independence subject to certain safeguards being given to the coastal people which should be entrenched in the constitution.
Robertson further recommended that the British Government abrogate the 1895 Agreement with the Sultan of Zanzibar and that another Agreement be made between the Government of Kenya and the Sultan of Zanzibar whereby the Sultan of Zanzibar will surrender his Sovereignty claims over the Coastal strip in consideration of the Kenya Government undertaking to respect and safeguarding inter alia the maintenance of the Sharia Law for Muslims and the retention of the Kadhi’s Courts.
On the 5th October 1963, the said Agreement was actually executed in the form of an exchange of letters between the Prime Ministers of Kenya and Zanzibar Messrs Jomo Kenyatta and M. Shamte respectively.
That Kadhis’ work should be restricted to judicial work and Muslims to elect their own Islamic/spiritual leader (mufti) who will be their official spokesman and an advisor to the government on issues affecting Muslims in Kenya.
Muslim personal law on marriage, divorce, inheritance and succession is not codified into legislation in Kenya. It is left to the Kadhi’s in their different courts to interpret the law as they understand it.There are no reports of the Kadhi’s Court's decisions - hence this has hampered the growth of Islamic Law jurisprudence in Kenya.
Muslims are mainly of two sects in Kenya - the Sunni and Shia.Majority of the Muslims in Kenya are Sunni Muslims but there is a significant population of Shia Muslims too and consideration ought to be given to the appointment of Kadhis of the Shia Sect to cater the interest of the Shia Muslims.
Under Section 66 of the constitution as read with the provisions of the legislations passed pursuant to that Section, Islamic Law is clearly recognised as a source of the Laws of Kenya in as far as matters pertaining to marriage, divorce and inheritance for the Muslims is concerned.The Kadhi’s Court's and the High Court must apply the Muslim Personal Law in dealing with Muslim personal matters. However, Section 3 of the Judicature Act, Chapter 8, Laws of Kenya which lists the sources of the Laws of Kenya and provides for the Jurisdiction of the various Courts in Kenya, does not include Muslim personal law as one of the sources of the Laws of Kenya subject to limitation as to the scope of application.The result has been that Institutions of higher learning in Kenya that teach law to students do not include Islamic Law in their curriculum or courses.Consequently, when lawyers get admitted to the bar in Kenya as advocates with the right of audience before all Courts, they find it difficult to effectively represent clients in the Kadhi’s Court's especially if they are not Muslims and have not studied Islamic Law. It is therefore necessary to recognize Islamic Law as one of the sources of the law in Kenya and for the same to be taught at universities and in the Kenya School of Law.
I'll reiterate the key quotations from this official Kenyan report:
... "Views were divided as to whether the coastal strip should be treated as a single entity with Kenya Colony" ...
... "Islamic law" ...
... "Muslim personal law on marriage, divorce, inheritance and succession is not codified into legislation in Kenya." ...
... "recommended that the coastal strip be incorporated into Kenya before self government and independence subject to certain safeguards being given to the coastal people which should be entrenched in the constitution" ...
... "Agreement was actually executed in the form of an exchange of letters" ...
It appears the "Ten-Mile Strip" (where Obama's possible place of birth is located) was separate and seemingly sovereign from the county that WOULD eventually BECOME the "Republic of Kenya" -- at least for a short while in 1963 and 1964.
My money is on the "Republic of Kenya". And this Kenyan birth certificate from the "Republic of Kenya" in February 1964 is looking MORE and MORE plausible...
and MY personal favorites:
* I wonder what they might have called themselves in the interim, to ensure they wouldn't be annexed by Zanzibar, you know, BEFORE the whole of Kenya became a Republic on Dec. 12, 1964? *
I need to get some sleep. Hope the rest of your evening in great!
In regards to the claims that BO seniors age is listed as 26:
Zoom in and examine the document carefully. It does indeed say 25. The angle of the picture makes it difficult to tell, but if you compare the number to the 5 and 6 in 5th August, 1961, you can tell that the loop made for the 5’s is much bigger than that of the sixes, and that the second digit of his age does match the 5 in the date of birth. Zoom in far enough and you can even see the straight line at the top of the 5.
If I were an argumentative soul, I'd say something to the effect of..."But you aren't John Jay and it wasn't your idea to include the phrase in the Constitution. Aren't you just a little curious what it meant to him at the time he inserted in the the Constitutional draft?"
But, I'm not an argumentative soul, at least not in my retirement. I grant you your understanding of "Natural Born Citizen", and admit that your position is completely defensible. If I had a paying client, I'm confident I could argue both positions with equal effectiveness. Usually, it's just these kinds of controversies that the Supreme Court loves to wade into. But, for whatever reason, this court (and all prior courts) hasn't the appetite to consider such a complex and confusing Constitutional puzzle.
The best analysis I've read was a written by a University of Illinois Law School professor as a commentary that appeared in the University of Michigan Law Review. Interestingly enough, it was written to address the concerns of some about John McCain's presidential eligibility, not Obama's. The author is a well-received and widely recognized expert on the varying kinds of constitutional originalism, with specific emphasis on semantic originalism, which is incredibly germane to the topic of "natural born" citizen.
Again, while he attempts to dissect McCain's eligibility dilemma, much of what he writes encompasses Obama's possible dilemma as well. I don't know your level of legal understanding or knowledge, and the document is rather wonkish and professorial (as one might expect from an expert law professor), but IHMO, it's worth the read if you've got :20 minutes.
Read it when it was posted. Normally I would agree, but too many posters nowadays get hung up on long-term agendas they can’t readily win. We should be focused on the near-term while strategizing the long-term. I firmly believe FReepers are the best multitaskers online and if we can distance ourselves from emotional involvement we can objectively focus on the details of the fight while maintaining a broader perspective of the long-term issues and strategy.
If you go back and read my post you will see that (although at one time I may have laughed at conspiracy theories) anything is posible in today’s time.