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Women arenít equal to men - especially not the feminists
Times of London ^ | August 9, 2009 | Minette Marrin

Posted on 08/08/2009 4:39:06 PM PDT by GOPGuide

Men and women really are different. The findings of hard science – in endocrinology, brain structure and function and genetics, for instance – have forced rational feminists to admit that, statistically speaking, men and women have different aptitudes, interests and responses, little though this is yet understood. Such generalisations never apply to an individual, of course, and although – for instance – women are underrepresented at the extremes of intelligence and statistically are less good at higher maths, chess, musical composition and physics, any one woman might be brilliant.

Similarly, while women tend in general to be less aggressive and more conciliatory, there are plenty of ferocious females and Wodehouse aunts, and plenty of men who are shrinking violets – with obvious implications for their working lives.

The point here, and it’s another centrally important fact, which feminists either don’t know or refuse to admit, is that you would not therefore necessarily expect men and women to be equally represented in any particular occupation. The fact that just two out of 25 top maths dons or bond traders or gangmasters are men, say, is not self-evidently due to discrimination against women mathematicians, bond traders or gangers (although it may be). And this underlies an obvious killer fact for the politics of equality: equality of opportunity is not the same thing as equality of outcome.

It is a dangerous mistake doggedly to pursue equality of outcome and equal numbers of men and women in everything. The entire basis of the gender equality movement, equality by numbers, stems from an unquestioned and wrong assumption, taken as fact in defiance of the actual truth.

The tragedy of feminism is that it has been dogged, or perhaps I should say bitched, by a lot of fixed ideas and unquestioned beliefs.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: feminism; men; sexdifferences; women
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1 posted on 08/08/2009 4:39:06 PM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: GOPGuide
And this underlies an obvious killer fact for the politics of equality: equality of opportunity is not the same thing as equality of outcome.

Yet another wheel is reinvented. Next thing, they may discover the New World.

2 posted on 08/08/2009 4:45:56 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: GOPGuide
"...are less good at higher maths"

as men are bad at grammar.

"tend in general to be less aggressive"

I'd like to go one-on-one with this guy at air combat maneuvering ... should be fun ....

"The tragedy of feminism is that it has been dogged, or perhaps I should say bitched, by a lot of fixed ideas and unquestioned beliefs."

Usually by men.

3 posted on 08/08/2009 4:51:46 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: GOPGuide

Absolutely idiotic headline.

Of course women are equal. However, they are quite different.

For that matter, no two people of whatever sex are identical, although they are all equal.


4 posted on 08/08/2009 4:52:12 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: SkyDancer

Women have:

... 45-50% less upper body strength and 25-30% less aerobic capacity, which is essential for endurance...


5 posted on 08/08/2009 4:53:49 PM PDT by donna (Watch out! If they can print money they can print a birth certificate for Obama.)
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To: GOPGuide

Actually, in many ways, they are superior.


6 posted on 08/08/2009 4:55:12 PM PDT by Bookwoman ("...and I am unanimous in this..")
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To: Sherman Logan

Who is this writer? Does she have anything to lose?

Remember Larry Summers was forced out as president of Harvard for expressing thoughts along these lines? He actually said that we could explore why women are under represented in certain science disciplines. Even broaching certain subjects is taboo. And Larry Summers is a good liberal, veteran of the Clinton admin, and now serving in the Obama admin. The liberals will eat their own when certain sacred cows are threatened. And one of the biggest cows is the feminist dogma.


7 posted on 08/08/2009 4:57:24 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: GOPGuide
Frankly, I tend to love the difference!

Where is the competition anyway, except in NOW’s idiotic minds!

8 posted on 08/08/2009 4:59:21 PM PDT by mckenzie7 (I am a European American! Silly me. I never realized that before!)
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To: Sherman Logan
Of course women are equal. However, they are quite different. For that matter, no two people of whatever sex are identical, although they are all equal.

Quite true, I believe his premise of categorizing is also quite true. I have yet to see a man barged in on, in his own home by the Brinks folks commercials.

9 posted on 08/08/2009 4:59:21 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: GOPGuide
Groups are certainly different.

If you belong to a group that statistically does not excel in a certain area, that means nothing to you as an individual.


10 posted on 08/08/2009 4:59:31 PM PDT by Bobalu (I AM JIM THOMPSON)
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To: donna

I fly that NATO combat trainer ... I have dumped a lot of guys when we went up to do a rat chase/fur ball/dog fight ....I have never been shot down (so to speak) by any guy. Those trainers pull 9gs positive and 3g’s negative ... we don’t wear g-suits when we do it. I’m 5’7 and weight 120 .....


11 posted on 08/08/2009 4:59:38 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

She’s in UK. Have no idea if the attitudes are different there.

In actuality, Larry did not say innate differences explained differential representation of the sexes in some scientific fields. He merely listed this as one of the possibilities that should be investigated.


12 posted on 08/08/2009 5:01:18 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: SkyDancer

Women are less aggressive? Not true. Ask any of my disgruntled ex-boyfriends.


13 posted on 08/08/2009 5:01:32 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: SkyDancer

Women aren’t equal to men...wow...what an informative title...

There is no way I could (or would) accomplish what my wife does on a daily basis...I don’t have the compassion or the desire to interact on a daily basis with those that are (shall we say) less fortunate that we are...

Men and women are different...not inferior to each other...


14 posted on 08/08/2009 5:01:33 PM PDT by BamaBlue
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To: SkyDancer

Geez, don’t cry about it.


15 posted on 08/08/2009 5:02:02 PM PDT by donna (Watch out! If they can print money they can print a birth certificate for Obama.)
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To: JillValentine

LOL I’m with you on that!


16 posted on 08/08/2009 5:02:36 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyDancer
"...are less good at higher maths"

as men are bad at grammar.

"Maths" is correct UK English usage.

17 posted on 08/08/2009 5:03:46 PM PDT by sthguard (Pres__ent Obama: He's All Ego.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Equal under the Law. The term ‘Equality’ is inaccurate. All Beings are different yet treated equally under the Law.


18 posted on 08/08/2009 5:04:05 PM PDT by TCats
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To: GOPGuide
there are plenty of ferocious females and Wodehouse aunts, and plenty of men who are shrinking violets

Quite a few of them in the Wodehouse stories.

My family has been watching the absolutely wonderful Jeeves/Wooster series from UK starring Hugh Laurie and Stephen Frye. Highly recommended. Bertie and a good number of his friends would probably run in terror from a shrinking violet.

19 posted on 08/08/2009 5:04:23 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: sthguard

Ummm - last I checked we’re in America where we speak American type English ...


20 posted on 08/08/2009 5:05:47 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: TCats

Also equal in God’s eyes. Which is of course the basis for equality under the Law, at least historically.


21 posted on 08/08/2009 5:07:02 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: SkyDancer

“Ummm - last I checked we’re in America where we speak American type English ...”

And last *I* checked, the article was published by the Times of London (that’s in England, in case your feminist geography book says otherwise), which quite correctly uses UK English.


22 posted on 08/08/2009 5:07:30 PM PDT by sthguard (Pres__ent Obama: He's All Ego.)
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To: sthguard

Ok and your point is?


23 posted on 08/08/2009 5:08:14 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyDancer

The article is from the Times of London.

Should it have been translated to protect you from viewing alternate usage?


24 posted on 08/08/2009 5:08:38 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Bobalu
Off topic, but that reminded me of this cartoon, which I love:


25 posted on 08/08/2009 5:09:22 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: BamaBlue

Except, sad to say, that is why socialism is taking over.


26 posted on 08/08/2009 5:09:24 PM PDT by donna (Watch out! If they can print money they can print a birth certificate for Obama.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Not really - the sentence structure is wrong even for UK English ....


27 posted on 08/08/2009 5:09:36 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Bookwoman

And, in many ways, men are superior to women.

Somewhat like breeds of dogs, some tend to be quite territorial, like a sheep-dog, some tend to be very friendly with everyone (like many “family-dogs”), and some are inclined to be vicious (like guard-dogs)... basically, it all depends on what you want, what you’re testing for that allows you to say whether one or another is superior.


28 posted on 08/08/2009 5:10:49 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: GOPGuide
"Such generalisations never apply to an individual, of course... any one woman might be brilliant.

Similarly, while women tend in general to be less aggressive and more conciliatory, there are plenty of ferocious females and Wodehouse aunts, and plenty of men who are shrinking violets – with obvious implications for their working lives.

I thought it would be worth reemphasizing these lines from the article before everyone starts trying to contradict it with anecdotal evidence.

29 posted on 08/08/2009 5:10:55 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: Sherman Logan
True. The use of ‘Difference’ to divide and denigrate people, regardless of sex, is a source of much angst in this life.

The irony is that is just this ‘Difference’ that makes for all of the raison d’etre. A World without these differences is one populated by robots or clones.

IMO only malcontents use these differences to divide.

30 posted on 08/08/2009 5:11:13 PM PDT by TCats
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To: JillValentine

Yup, that is funny :-)

Could be redone to poke fun at Obama’s economic plan.


31 posted on 08/08/2009 5:11:26 PM PDT by Bobalu (I AM JIM THOMPSON)
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To: Sherman Logan
ps - here is the point: "are less good" ... if you can't see it then .....
32 posted on 08/08/2009 5:11:36 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyDancer

Ah, feminist logic— gotta love it.

My point is that you were wrong to claim that the article made a grammar mistake.


33 posted on 08/08/2009 5:12:14 PM PDT by sthguard (Pres__ent Obama: He's All Ego.)
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To: sthguard

Think about it ... “less good” ....


34 posted on 08/08/2009 5:13:17 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: sthguard

ps - think about “way good” or “these ones” ....


35 posted on 08/08/2009 5:14:21 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: donna
Our ancestors were hunter/gatherers. Men had to chase down food, and women had to look for berries and roots etc..Thats why women still love looking for berries and roots, but they do it at the local supermarket...A man picks up a watermelon and puts it in his basket. The woman on the other hand looks them over, thumps them with their knuckles and check out the color...same thing in a clothing store, use to drive my husband nuts and finally one day he said "Do you have to touch everything in the store?" to which I replied "Yep"...

Upper body strength doesn't help in childbirth either. A man sees the charging elephant and the woman looks down for snakes and spiders...

Everyone except the feminists and newpaper reporters know we are not equal but complimentary..

36 posted on 08/08/2009 5:14:41 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: SkyDancer

The structure seems a little non-standard to me. I would have worded it differently.

British English often allows slightly different sentence structure as well as different wording. I’d want a review from a well-educated Brit before agreeing her grammar was improper.


37 posted on 08/08/2009 5:15:24 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan

Ok, sounds reasonable to me ....


38 posted on 08/08/2009 5:16:59 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: timm22
No need. I always read the article before posting. The author deserves credit for including those lines. My problem is with people (often FReepers) who make generalizations about the sexes without saying anything about individualism.

My comment was simply to make the point that (conservative) feminists can have a sense of humor - and even (gasp) use self-depreciating humor.

39 posted on 08/08/2009 5:17:19 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: SkyDancer
***I’m 5’7 and weight 120 ***

I'm 5'6 and weigh a lot more than that...I hate you (said with a smile on my face) :O(

40 posted on 08/08/2009 5:17:20 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny

LOL - hard to keep it there ... I’m usually around 110-115


41 posted on 08/08/2009 5:18:29 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: GOPGuide

All the feminists I know and am married to thinks that women are MORE equal than men. ;-)


42 posted on 08/08/2009 5:19:41 PM PDT by J40000
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To: J40000
All the feminists I know and am married to thinks that women are MORE equal than men. ;-)

Plural? Better hope they don't find out about one another...

;-)

43 posted on 08/08/2009 5:26:09 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: SkyDancer

Wow, impressively thin. I’m 5’5” and 120 - I try to keep it within two pounds of the 120 mark, up or down.


44 posted on 08/08/2009 5:27:29 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: SkyDancer

With a chocolate ganache and raspberry torte in my frig. Its impossible to keep my weight any where.. :O)


45 posted on 08/08/2009 5:31:32 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: GOPGuide

Wow.

This thread sure brought out a lot of female freepers.


46 posted on 08/08/2009 5:32:45 PM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: goat granny

What’s your address - I’m on my way over .... !!!!


47 posted on 08/08/2009 5:34:19 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: GOPGuide

And you like it that way.


48 posted on 08/08/2009 5:36:19 PM PDT by JillValentine (Drinking Kool-Aid leads to PDS.)
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To: SkyDancer

Just to turn you green with envy, its sitting beside my Carmel Turtle Cheesecake....:O)


49 posted on 08/08/2009 5:39:21 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Dilbert San Diego
The liberals will eat their own when certain sacred cows are threatened.

Pun intended?

50 posted on 08/08/2009 5:40:00 PM PDT by umgud (Look to gov't to solve your everday problems and they'll control your everday life.)
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