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Obama Administration: Depressed and Disabled Veterans Should Consider Foregoing Medical Care
IsraPundit ^ | 8/19/09 | Bill Levinson

Posted on 08/19/2009 2:52:03 PM PDT by Winged Hussar

Depression, disability, and "being a financial burden" could constitute "Lebensunwerte Leben" (Life Unworthy of Life) in U.S. Government end of life planning document

"The Death Book for Veterans: Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society" by Jim Towey in today's (August 18) Wall Street Journal says,

    Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices."
We downloaded this document directly from the Veterans Administration, and the content suggests that both family finances and depression--a non-terminal illness--could constitute Lebensunwerte Leben, or "life unworthy of life." Smoke is generally indicative of fire and, although HR 3200 says nothing about mandatory end of life planning, euthanasia, or anything else similar to Germany's Aktion T4 program--the euthanasia program that served as a precedent for the Holocaust--we have shown (http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=16320) that there is indeed fire to go with the smoke. "Your Life, Your Choices" is simply more evidence, and it even suggests that war veterans with depression consider themselves a burden on the society that sent them to war.

(Excerpt) Read more at israpundit.com ...


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To: silent_jonny; penelopesire; seekthetruth; television is just wrong; jcsjcm; BP2; Pablo Mac; ...

I think we unbelievably are! Note: That term is not in this
document that I found.

The actual VA document = July 2, 2009:

http://www.ethics.va.gov/docs/policy/VHA_Handbook_1004-02_Advance_Care_Planning_20090702.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stunning .. how bureaucratized and roboticized the VA docs will have to be, in just one excerpt below .. they’re going to spend a lot of time being govt. functionaries. It would now be hard to believe that his evil plans, if successful, couldn’t extend to the broader population.

I agree it’s important to discuss these things with your family and personal doctor at appropriate age and time, but it’s possible to now visualize that every conversation with your physician will be quite regulated and get reported and put into their massive population/cost monitoring databank. 1984.

Obamacare MUST fail.
______________________________________________________

Excerpt:

9. RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE PRIMARY CARE PRACTITIONER

Primary care practitioners are responsible for:

a. Raising the issue of advance care planning with all patients who have decision-making capacity, explaining that they do this with all their patients. These conversations may be brief, or more extensive, depending on the patient’s circumstances.

For patients who request more information and/or assistance completing advance directive forms, the primary care practitioner may personally provide the information and/or assistance, or make a referral to another qualified
individual (see paragraph 9).

b. Giving patients pertinent educational materials (e.g., Refer patients to the “Your Life, Your Choices” module in MyHealtheVet at the web site http://www.myhealth.va.gov, or provide written material such as Appendix C).

**The links that come up when you click that site above and search for ‘your life your choices.’**

http://www.index.va.gov/search/va/va_search.jsp?SQ=&TT=1&QT=your+life+your+choices&searchbtn=Search

c. Encouraging patients to discuss their preferences for future health care with their loved ones.

d. Explaining the potential benefits of advance care planning in general, and of advance directives in particular, especially for patients who are at high risk of losing decision-making capacity (e.g., patients with cerebrovascular disease, early dementia, or other serious mental or life-limiting illnesses).

e. Highlighting the particular benefits of appointing an HCA, especially if a problem related to surrogacy is anticipated (e.g., patients who have no family, patients who would want a surrogate other than the person authorized in VHA Handbook 1004.1, or patients with multiple
surrogates at the same priority level who may disagree with each other).

f. Describing the limitations of advance directives.

NOTE: Pertinent information is contained in the references cited in paragraph 8b, and in paragraph 14.

g. For patients who already have an advance directive in the health record, reviewing the advance directive with the patient to help ensure it is up to date, and that it states the patient’s intentions clearly (see paragraph 10c).

h. If the patient has more than one advance directive in the record, asking the patient to indicate which one(s) remains active and which, if any, needs to be rescinded because of changes in the patient’s preferences (see paragraph 11).

i. Initiating conversations about advance care planning periodically (at intervals no longer than three years), whenever the primary care practitioner observes a significant change in the patient’s health status, and at the earliest opportunity after a new or revised advance directive is entered into the patient’s record.

In addition, primary care practitioners need to initiate these July 2, 2009 VHA HANDBOOK 1004.029 conversations more frequently with patients who are at high risk of losing decision-making capacity (e.g., patients with cerebrovascular disease, early dementia, serious mental illness (SMI) or other life-limiting illnesses).

j. Documenting that the required advance care planning discussion occurred and summarizing the significant content.

(1) When the discussion results in the patient completing an advance directive, the advance directive must be filed or scanned with a progress note titled “Advance Directive.”

(2) Documentation of the discussion that led to the filing of an advance directive can be in the form of an addendum to the “Advance Directive” note associated with that advance directive or in a separate note titled “Advance Directive Discussion.”

(3) When there is discussion, but no advance directive, the note needs to have the title “Advance Directive Discussion.”

(4) When the discussion concerns an existing advance directive, documentation can be in the form of an addendum to the “Advance Directive” note associated with that directive or may be made in a separate note titled “Advance Directive Discussion” (see par. 5).

_____________________

Related:

“Your Life, Your Choices:
Planning for Future Medical Decisions

Note –

The following is a 1997 publication that was produced
under VA IIR Grant No. 94-050, “Development of an
Advance Care Planning Workbook,” 4/01/95 – 3/31/97.
The document is currently undergoing revision for
release in VA. The revised version will be available
soon.

http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf


201 posted on 08/20/2009 12:31:35 AM PDT by STARWISE (The Art & Science Institute of Chicago Politics NE Div: now open at the White House)
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To: Brad's Gramma
My stupid email program accidently sent all of this information out...all by itself. Seems I can’t control it these days!

You must have gotten yours from the same cheap, 'chop-shop' online software store mine came from; it did the same thing.

202 posted on 08/20/2009 12:35:26 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The mob got President Barabbas; America got shafted)
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To: Winged Hussar
Oh how wonderful! Yeh.... health care for all! Health care for all! Just look at that fabulous example of government run health care- the VA. And Obama has said that he wants our care system to be like Canada's and England's -such perfect health care for their citizens.

Won't it be great when EVERY ONE can fill out this form and turn it into the federal government too? I mean why should our soldiers, who put their lives on the line for our country, get to have all the fun?

I don't want to keep my health care issues between myself and my doctor- I want politicians, and as many bureaucrats as possible, involved in my health care.

If my mom gets sick with something like, for example, Cancer- it will be so nice to have the Acorn representative show up at the door to take an inventory of how many bad habits she's had. How much she drinks or smokes, how much she weighs, and how much exercise she gets, what she eats, exc.... in order to determine if she gets any treatment at all.(Follow link and check the bill for yourself)

Oh, and if my mom is over age 65, the sweet man from the government can persuade her to refuse treatment, and die, in order to save the family State money.

This is exactly what some one needs who is fighting Cancer, or some other life threatening condition.

Death panels? Wha'd ya mean there are death panels?

You're all just a bunch of ignorant right wing nuts. I'd have better luck talking to a table.

Repeat after me:

Obamacare is not about health care rationing or putting Grandma to sleep.(I mean she's going to be denied any treatments that might save her life because she's too old, not a politician's relative, and it costs too much-but, that's not a death panel)

C'mon every body chant: WHAT DO WE WANT?!

DEATH-CARE er......I mean HEALTH CARE!

HEALTH CARE NOW!

Nothing to see here-move along.....

203 posted on 08/20/2009 12:40:29 AM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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To: All

United States Department of Veterans Affairs
National Center for Ethics in Health Care

Ethics Resources
http://www.ethics.va.gov/resources/ethicsresources.asp

“Reviewed/Updated Date: August 19, 2009”


204 posted on 08/20/2009 12:42:30 AM PDT by STARWISE (The Art & Science Institute of Chicago Politics NE Div: now open at the White House)
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To: glock rocks

Love that photo!

“You is been inspected, and is been found lacking.”

Wish (almost) I had gotten there soon enough to see what the tidbit of kittybait had posted.


205 posted on 08/20/2009 12:46:56 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The mob got President Barabbas; America got shafted)
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To: STARWISE

Sadly, it’s nothing less than a lot of us have suspected. Treating and sustaining our Warriors has become a “burden” to the state, much like unborn useless eaters.


206 posted on 08/20/2009 12:53:18 AM PDT by MestaMachine (One if by land, 2 if by sea, 3 if by Air Force 1.)
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To: the long march

As far as I’s concerned these liberal idiots are EVIL to the core!! Talking life’s decisions over with your Doctor and family is one thing, but notice the circles around the government PREFERRED OPTIONS....I call that the EVIL power of suggestion!!...and a whole lot of other things...#%*@*#$@!!! Then, they highlighted in BOLD type to punctuate it!!! IMHO, there is no hell deep enough for these idiots, trying to play God!! In the Book of Job...he states,”The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, Blessed be the name of the Lord!” ... and the LORD is NOT Obama or the Federal Govn’t!!


207 posted on 08/20/2009 1:14:53 AM PDT by prayin4_swcb (....A nation divided against itself, cannot stand.)
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To: ExTexasRedhead
Thanks, I put this on some other boards, too. It will also be an opening topic of discussion for my AP American Government classes when school begins next Monday.
208 posted on 08/20/2009 3:01:20 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: GreyFriar
Yep, Gen Shinseki has sold completely out to nObama

You watch. His mismanagement of the new Post 911 GI Bill (that shortchanges many 911 veterans and their families) is going to be a disaster.

I guess the solution would be to purchase more black berets.


209 posted on 08/20/2009 3:11:46 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: theKid51

ping


210 posted on 08/20/2009 3:14:46 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Socialism is not a bad word. It is a bad concept.)
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To: netmilsmom
"SO, Let me get this straight. We're going to get a health care plan shoved down our throats that is written by a committtee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a president that also hasn't read it, and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's nearly broke.What could possibly go wrong?"

That's a great post. Hits nail on the head.

Let nothing disturb you
nothing frighten you
All things pass
God does not leave.
Patient endurance attains all things.
He who has God lacks nothing.
God alone is enough.

-St. Teresa of Avila

211 posted on 08/20/2009 3:34:25 AM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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To: Pajamajan

btt


212 posted on 08/20/2009 3:48:33 AM PDT by Senator_Blutarski (No good deed goes unpunished.)
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To: maggief
m. I can no longer think clearly- I am confused all the time"

m. I can no longer think clearly- I am confused all the time and I can't read. Check here _________.

Nope- nothing strange about this form at all.(sarcasm)

Let nothing disturb you
nothing frighten you
All things pass.
God does not leave.
He who has God lacks nothing.
God alone is enough.

-St. Teresa of Avila

213 posted on 08/20/2009 3:52:01 AM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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To: Pajamajan; Senator_Blutarski; leilani; Winged Hussar; maggief


214 posted on 08/20/2009 4:26:10 AM PDT by Sparko (Obama: The only man who can make COMMUNITY a dirty word.)
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To: SaraJohnson

You are exactly right. I’m currently reading Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel’s memoirs. It’s the bloodlust for death that I just can’t wrap my head around. The Nazis’ (and others’) insatiable appetite for cruelty and death seems to be the same spirit fueling certain tenets of “health” care. I’d love to believe the “Never Again!” declaration, but unfortunately, I believe the same ethos is still around—just repackaged with prettier-sounding terms.


215 posted on 08/20/2009 5:19:07 AM PDT by 1951Boomer
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To: Sparko

That is a scream, Sparko. Forced to forage from my home? LOL!!!


216 posted on 08/20/2009 5:20:22 AM PDT by leilani
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To: celtic gal

Fantastic! I completely respect anyone who’s fought or been involved in the military at all. My dad and my father-in-law were in the military (both have died) and the stories they’d tell me...amazing. Speaking of courage!

Thank you!!!


217 posted on 08/20/2009 5:20:46 AM PDT by USAHOME
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To: Sparko; STARWISE; SE Mom; hoosiermama; Miss Didi; maggief

ROTFLOL PING!


218 posted on 08/20/2009 5:26:51 AM PDT by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: MarMema
Well, in truth the long march is correct in that it is commonplace procedure to ask family about how long/much someone wants to be kept alive.

As stated before, if this was a family/lawyer/doctor questionnaire for development of legal doc for use later, no problem. For forcible providing for gov't info, I call BS.

219 posted on 08/20/2009 5:54:28 AM PDT by xone
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To: Sparko; penelopesire

Good job!

“The post office is where I get my medical care” (from SEIU union thugs).

:)


220 posted on 08/20/2009 6:21:14 AM PDT by maggief
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To: Winged Hussar

Thanks for posting this. Haven’t read all the comments on the thread but the question makes me think of how they would be answered by FDR, Christopher Reeves, and a young Christian woman named Joni Erickson Tada who became a quadraplegic in her late teens. Joni learned to paint with her mouth and the Lord has used her to proclaim His grace, comfort and HOPE to millions worldwide as she learned to trust Him.


221 posted on 08/20/2009 6:33:43 AM PDT by JoyjoyfromNJ (Psalm 121)
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To: ExSoldier; SkyPilot; unkus; freekitty; sheik yerbouty; ElkGroveDan; celtic gal; Howie66; ...

LOL; the Socialists in Congress are the thugs that scream when they’re call Nazis. If the shoe fits!!!


222 posted on 08/20/2009 6:47:02 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Winged Hussar

Perhaps we can give this questionaire to Ted Kennedy right now along with ALL the elderly elists, liberals, professors and reports. They should go through this crap.

This is how they treat their parents, the veterans, the greatest generation. This is what “compassionate liberalism” is.


223 posted on 08/20/2009 7:05:58 AM PDT by TMA62 (TMA62)
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To: Winged Hussar

I read and heard on the radio where 0bama said some stupid thing like military (AD or vets?) should use their own supplemental insurance or some crap.


224 posted on 08/20/2009 7:23:00 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama, the first ever 3 in a half year, lame duck TOTUS)
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To: Winged Hussar

&%$#@________! Saving & cirsulating...


225 posted on 08/20/2009 7:26:37 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: the long march

Doctors ARE NOT allowed to do what they want. You sound like that moron Obama when he spouts the same lies.


226 posted on 08/20/2009 7:31:46 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: timydnuc

We’re with you. God bless us all, because we really, REALLY need it.


227 posted on 08/20/2009 7:41:12 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: MestaMachine
Overall, I agree with you. I do think that shrinks have their place, but I'm not convinced that they should replace nutrition counseling, hormone balance and just all-out rest for someone who likely has adrenal fatigue. You can actually become so depleted that your "fight or flight" trigger just doesn't work anymore.

As someone who was treated with these drugs for "depression" that was really Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, I have some experience. I was able to tolerate and stay in a job that I hated - whereas if I had not been medicated, I probably would have quit sooner and moved on to happier circumstances. Relationships that were formed while on the drugs couldn't be tolerated AT ALL once off them. So it does change your personality, even though it did make life easier to just not be so worked up about stuff all the time. Problem is, you can't stay on them forever, no matter what they'd like you to believe, and once off them, you're back to square one.

228 posted on 08/20/2009 7:52:49 AM PDT by ponygirl
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To: the long march

I think the difficult but acceptable choice as the best choice is the point here. Plenty of People in wheelchairs would answer that they love their lives and are happy. Not living a difficult life but acceptable. Of course these talks need to happen but, when if I am healthy but am disabled, I am not going to begin talking about the end of my life. Those happen in the course time.


229 posted on 08/20/2009 7:53:54 AM PDT by Bruinator (It's the Media.............Stupid)
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To: MestaMachine
"Something is very, very wrong here. VERY wrong. It should be stopped immediately"

Self fulfilling prophecy: ask a depressed, possibly permanently disabled vet questions like are you a burden to your loved ones and it plants a suggestion in that vet's mind, which reinforces their feelings of uselessness. Add to it the known side effects of prescription antidepressants (kinda contrary to the POINT and why I only use or recommend catnip tea, which has no side effects). It's what passes for "science" now: they're callously creating the statistics which they will use later to "prove" their theory as "fact".

230 posted on 08/20/2009 8:05:45 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: STARWISE; All

It wasn’t that long ago B Hussein wanted to CHARGE veterans for medical services. Anyone who thinks this is a coincidence is “surprised” by rising unemployment.


231 posted on 08/20/2009 8:08:54 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: Pajamajan

I’ve been confused a LOT since January 20, 2009....


232 posted on 08/20/2009 8:11:44 AM PDT by cake_crumb (86 44!)
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To: timydnuc; afnamvet; Alamo-Girl; onyx; ALOHA RONNIE; SpookBrat; Republican Wildcat; Howlin; ...

Oh, my !!

Pinging my General Interest and Texas Lists here cuz I thought you’d wanna know!

Ping! Ping! Ping!


233 posted on 08/20/2009 8:12:07 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (2008: The year the Media died. --Sean Hannity, regarding Barack HUSSEIN ObaMao's treatment ...)
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To: Winged Hussar

Bump for later email forwarding


234 posted on 08/20/2009 8:29:32 AM PDT by Dustbunny ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. " Ronald Reagan)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Good day meekone, i hope you are well today. This situation is a total travesty. Days ago my friend, who is a disabled Vietnam Vet, stopped taking the effexor and vicodin that he has needed for years. I am going to see if this has anything to do with that decision post haste.


235 posted on 08/20/2009 8:33:16 AM PDT by JerseyDvl (Since they call Bush, "Dubya" then I must insist on calling Barry, "Hussein" *2009=1984 on steroids*)
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To: Nathan Zachary

I agree but, there are a lot here who will flame you for saying that.


236 posted on 08/20/2009 8:38:11 AM PDT by mel
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To: Bon mots

I have only TWO words for Obama.

F*** YOU


237 posted on 08/20/2009 8:39:17 AM PDT by antiunion person (PALIN for PRESIDENT 2012)
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To: Sparko
I LOVE that, Sparko!

Thanks for a much needed laugh.

238 posted on 08/20/2009 8:49:40 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: the long march
I had major surgery three years ago. The hospital sent me a similar questionnaire. My lawyer had me set up a living will. Since I was unmarried my daughter was given the power of attorney. I realized at the time a prudent person would have these instruments in place even in good health.
239 posted on 08/20/2009 9:06:01 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Shinseki is a disabled vet. He should apply his own treatment on himself first and let us know how that’s working out for him.


240 posted on 08/20/2009 9:08:06 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Proud FR Mobster)
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To: driftdiver

Yeah I agree


241 posted on 08/20/2009 9:17:44 AM PDT by the long march
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To: penelopesire

you have not been in an end of life position then. Fact is if you want NO Care there is no guarantee that some doctor will decide that they want to put you on a medication to keep you going ( happened to my aunt until we pulled out the paper work to make them back off). There are plenty of cases that hit the courts where hospitals want to pull the plug on someone and the docs are sued. Jehova’s Witnesses ( with whom I have nothing in common) and Seventh Day Adventists ( as well as Christian Scientists) fight in court frequently to practise their religious point of view.

I read the whole booklet. These are common questions that one would like families to discuss and know something about. It isn’t a “survey” You obviously have never been a care giver for one at the end of life ( regardless of age). I find that most people do not discuss death and dying with anyone, least of all those who will be taking care of them. If you do not have your wishes written down ( regardless of what they are) you will indeed be at the mercy of someone else.


242 posted on 08/20/2009 9:27:13 AM PDT by the long march
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To: frogjerk

The advanced health care directive ( at least in California) appoints a person who has power of attorney in matters regard health care decisions. It also has areas that you can explain what (generally) you want or do not want. You are correct having a designated person with the legal authority is the best way to go to insure you get the kind of care you desire ( regardless of what that is)


243 posted on 08/20/2009 9:29:55 AM PDT by the long march
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To: maggief

I do not disagree with you as to where the decision should be made. Read the booklet in it’s entirity. this is an effort by those who deal with the dying to address the issues of what they want when they are still in a functioning and coherent state. If someone responds that they are confused all the time several things happen ( at least in the VA here in northern california) first the veteran is reevaluated for medications to see if there is some confusion being caused by mixed meds or dosage issues. Second the vet is scheduled for another appointment with the doc

This booklet is a starting point for family discussions. Your own family physician has a similar one that will be given to you or your care giver as you get nearer to making decisions.


244 posted on 08/20/2009 9:40:40 AM PDT by the long march
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To: 4woodenboats

Wills have nothing to do with advanced health care directives. That truly is mixing apples and oranges. Living wills while you might think them nice are frequently over looked or not available for evaluation. The best thing to do is have an advanced health care directive in place that specifies treatment and NAMES aperson to have power of attorney for helth decisions

The booklet by the VA is broad based in its questioning for several reasons. The answers to many of those questions can lead the nurse practioner and doctor to diagnose PTSD, clinical depression, and other severe changes in patient outlook. Fact is that a lot of our older vets are depressed and do not feel that much in life is worth living for. The goal is to find a way to imprpove their conditions and support them so that things have meaning again


245 posted on 08/20/2009 9:45:34 AM PDT by the long march
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To: PhiKapMom

I do not disagree with you. I only pointed out that the VA has a tool that is useful. It is not mandatory. It is no different than the questionairres that doctors offices give to families.

I am not in favor of any government involvment in health care and you will never find a place where I have said that I am.


246 posted on 08/20/2009 9:47:42 AM PDT by the long march
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To: Brad's Gramma

That is part of the problem overall. Families will not discuss what they want in the way of care. If you want all measures to be used no matter what -— somewhere you need to write that down and appoint someone to make sure it happens

Life is God given and so is the passing from this veil of tears. Our time is not God’s time but the type of care you receive can be what you want or not.


247 posted on 08/20/2009 9:50:15 AM PDT by the long march
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To: FourPeas

You are very lucky. That is not always the case. It is not a scare tactic tp say that a doctor can go to court and get authority to provide or remove a treatment if they so desire ( the cases are all over the news when it happens——people who want to refuse treatments and aren’t allowed to and people who want life saving measures that they can’t get). No where in my post did you ever see anything that said I wanted the government to make these decisions. All I said was it is important for people to protect themselves.


248 posted on 08/20/2009 9:53:14 AM PDT by the long march
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To: plain talk

I agree the VA pamphlet is not unlike the ones you get at any gerontolgists office


249 posted on 08/20/2009 9:53:54 AM PDT by the long march
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To: MeekOneGOP

Thanks for the ping!


250 posted on 08/20/2009 9:56:20 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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