Posted on 08/19/2009 2:52:03 PM PDT by Winged Hussar
From the above list:
m. I can no longer think clearly -- I am confused all the time.
n. I no longer recognize family/friends.
How can you defend your position with these two specifics included? Because they've included a "Can't answer now" option??
I understand your point about making certain you have considered things long before you may actually get to this point, make certain your spouse, family know your feelings regarding extraordinary measures, Do Not Resuscitate, etc., but to offer this under the rubric of one being a burden to his family, life worth living, I'm sorry, I just see this as cruel. It looks to be suggesting thought rather than inquiring of it.
I agree with you completly. WHen I was young and healthy and knew I was immortal ( I was 18), I knew that if I couldn’t ski life would not be worth living. By the time I was 21 and had to have a surgery that a) would allow me to walk BUT b) would mean that I couldn’t ski, I had the surgery. I thought my life was over I said so to the docs and nurses. Because they recognized that as depression and grief they were able to better help me. I will say that not skiing has saved me lots of money and life is just fine.
Thank you for your thoughtful response
Yes that is all I was saying
Not all will -— but the best thing ( and that is ALL I was saying) is to be proactive in your own health care.
Yeah I have ——and perhaps the living will in your state is different.
and since you don’t know where to start don’t bother.
FTR..I am in that position right now with my mother, who has terminal cancer, you big jerk! I know what I am talking about, so bugger off! If you cannot see the problems with that awful questionaire, then it is you who has no clue. My mother’s living will and directives don’t read anything like that evil ‘survey’ and neither did the ‘workbook’ type info that came with the stuff. If it had, I would not have even let her read it. People who are sick or at the end of their lives don’t need to be made to feel guilty about anything....
ESPECIALLY OUR VETERANS WHO HAVE GIVEN SO MUCH FOR OUR COUNTRY!
Because if they answer I am confused all the time it will in fact negate any decisions made by that person. Moreover it is also being used as a therapeutic tool to help folks who are starting to show signs of dementia ( drug induced or organic) and other such diseases.
These are questions to consider NOT a directive. It is a pamphlet designed to get people talking about the issues the family and patient will face.
These pamphlets exists is many doctors offices. I have NO position to defend. All I did was point out that the pamphlet is being used NOT just at the VA and that the questions are legit. I do not advocate for ANY government involvement in health care
I am sorry to hear that you are struggling with your Mom’s illness.
I have never suggested that this type of questionairre be used at “ end of life” indeed I said it was used to prompt families and patients to discuss these things ahead of time. My own mother ( passed in March of 2005) chose to have nothing other than palliative treatment for her fully metastisized cancer. Since I was her care giver and carried her medical power of attorney AND we had discussed MANY times what she wanted, I made sure that the care she got was exactly what she wanted. that was my duty and my gift to her.
Again you have misread my posts because of your own anger. I have NEVER said that vets deserve less than the best. AND I have NEVER advocated for government involvment in helath care.
We will just have to agree to disagree then because I find those types of questions unconscionable...particularly coming from the government. No-one should be forced to do that vile worksheet....EVER...PERIOD.
They are making every veteran do those things whether they are sick or not. It is clearly a guilt trip designed to push them into refusing care.
No they are not making every veteran answer those questions. This is a pamphlet that is given to someone. The vet doesn’t have to take it if they don’t want to.
I agree with you that NO ONE should be forced by the government to do that which is morally repugnant. I have NEVER advocated that the government should have anythng to do with health care.
Because no one thinks these things when they are faced with medical/physical difficulty? It has to be suggested, and not in a manner that is considerate, realistic, but cruel?
I do not buy this, and I speak as a person who was permanently and totally disabled at the age of 23 (I'm 46 now) and have cost my family more than money with my difficulties. People know -- this is not making sure one's wishes are carried out when he may no longer be able to express them himself due to whatever the factor, this is suggestive, the whole "are you worthy of living, is your continuing to live a necessity to anyone other than you" is just so wrong. If this is indeed laying on the table in the waiting room of any doctor I see, pamphlet or inquiry form, you can be sure I am leaving, as that is a doctor I do not wish to have responsible for my care.
Great poster!
There you go again..spreading ‘fishy’ information. You said:
“No they are not making every veteran answer those questions. This is a pamphlet that is given to someone. The vet doesn’t have to take it if they don’t want to.”
(end quote)
You obviously have not even bothered to read the WSJ link which states:
“Worse, a July 2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to “Your Life, Your Choices.” Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition—all patients. America’s 24 million veterans deserve better.”
READ IT!..ALL PATIENTS! You tell me how many patients are going to ‘refuse’ to have this conversation or take the stupid pamphlet when the doctor brings it up and shoves it in their face because he is ordered to by the government?
Not many...especially our active duty military and veterans, who are conditioned to obey ‘authority’ figures. Please don’t ever go into the patient advocacy field...I’m begging you.
Great find, and thanks for bringing it to us. This exposes the true nature of Obamacare’s “End of Life Counseling”.
How ironic that this should first be proposed to our veterans!
In Germany, the first ones to experience euthanasia by government edict were the veterans of World War I. They were dragged out of the nursing homes...the amputees went first...they were the guinea pigs for various gassing methods. At first these gassings were carried out in busses and trucks. The wounded vets thought they were being taken out for an airing.
(Documented by reporter Christopher Isherwood in his famous book, “Berlin Diary”.)
Glad you are NOT related to me!
The press reported lastweek that Teddy Kennedy “still goes sailing.” Yeah, with terminal brain cancer, on morphine, and not knowing where the hell he is.
My boyfriend has PTSD and if he listens to these jerks from the gov’t and finds life less than worthwhile, I’ll kick his former Marine recon rear end myself
But then he has me, so how can life not be worthwhile, right???? big LOL!!!!!!
He’d better realize that he’s my hero. I think he does. :D
I read it. it says it is offered to the vet. moreover, i actually know folks who work in the VA who actually are involved in gerontology and taking care of our vets who are in fact getting closer to the end of their lives. No one at the VA is forcing anything onto to the vet.
But that isn’t really the point. whether one offers a patient information is of no concern to me. You and I both agree the government should stay out of it and there should be NO mandates.
Bwahahahahahhaa
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