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Is Benedict in Favor of World Government?
First Things ^ | August 20, 2009 | Douglas A. Sylva

Posted on 08/20/2009 12:30:40 PM PDT by IbJensen

As observers continue to decipher the meaning of Benedict XVI’s latest encyclical, Caritas in Veritate, all appear to agree that the passage of note, the passage that may prove historic in its implications, is the one that is already becoming known as the “world political authority” paragraph:

In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of the responsibility to protect and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority. . . .

Could Benedict be in favor of world government, as many now believe? Taken in the context of papal writings since the dawn of the UN, as well as Benedict’s own opinions, recorded both before and after his election as pope, the passage gains another meaning. It is in reality a profound challenge to the UN, and the other international organizations, to make themselves worthy of authority, of the authority that they already possess, and worthy of the expansion of authority that appears to be necessary in light of the accelerated pace of globalization.

It is true that Benedict believes that a transnational organization must be empowered to address transnational problems. But so has every pope since John XXIII, who wrote in 1963 that “Today the universal common good presents us with problems which are worldwide in their dimensions; problems, therefore, which cannot be solved except by a public authority with power, organization, and means coextensive with these problems, and with a worldwide sphere of activity. Consequently the moral order itself demands the establishment of some such form of public authority.”

But such an authority has been established, and we have lived with it since 1948, and in many ways it has disappointed. So Benedict turns John XXIII’s formulation on its head: Morality no longer simply demands a global social order; now Benedict underscores that this existing social order must operate in accord with morality. He ends his own passage on world authority by stating that “The integral development of peoples and international cooperation require the establishment of a greater international ordering, marked by subsidiarity, for the management of globalization. They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order. . . .” Note the phrase “at last.”

What went wrong? According to Benedict, a world authority worthy of this authority would need “to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth.” The obvious implication is that the current UN has not made this commitment.

To understand how the UN has failed, we must delve into the rest of the encyclical. According to Benedict, the goal of all international institutions must be “authentic integral human development.” This human development must be inspired by truth, in this case, the truth about humanity. Pursuit of this truth reveals that each human being possesses absolute worth; therefore, authentic human development is predicated on a radical defense of life.

This link is made repeatedly in Caritas in Veritate. “Openness to life is at the center of true development. . . . The acceptance of life strengthens moral fiber and makes people capable of mutual help. . . . They can promote virtuous action within the perspective of production that is morally sound and marked by solidarity, respecting the fundamental right to life of every people and individual.”

To some, it must seem startling how often Benedict comes back to life in an encyclical ostensibly dedicated to economics and globalization. But this must be understood as Benedict’s effort to humanize globalization. It can be seen as the global application of John Paul II’s own encyclical on life, Evengelium Vitae.

Without this understanding of the primacy of life, international development is bound to fail: “Who could measure the negative effects of this kind of mentality for development? How can we be surprised by the indifference shown towards situations of human degradation, when such indifference extends even to our attitude towards what is and is not human?”

Throughout the encyclical, Benedict is unsparing in the ways in which the current international order contributes to this failure; no major front in the war over life is left unmentioned, from population control, to bioethics, to euthanasia.

But none of this should come as a surprise. Since at least as far back as the UN’s major conferences of the 1990s—Cairo and Beijing—Benedict has known that the UN has adopted a model of development conformed to the culture of death. He no doubt assisted John Paul II in his successful efforts to stop these conferences from establishing an international right to abortion-on-demand. At the time, Benedict said, “Today there is no longer a ‘philosophy of love’ but only a ‘philosophy of selfishness.’ It is precisely here that people are deceived. In fact, at the moment they are advised not to love, they are advised, in the final analysis, not to be human. For this reason, at this stage of the development of the new image of the new world, Christians . . . have a duty to protest.”

Now, in his teaching role as pope, Benedict is not simply protesting but offering the Christian alternative, the full exposition of authentic human development. Whether or not the UN can meet the philosophical challenges necessary to promote this true development remains uncertain. But it should not be assumed that Benedict is sanguine; after all, he begins his purported embrace of world government with a call for UN “reform,” not expansion.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: benedict; bxvi; catholic; globalism; integraldevelopment; pope; popebenedict; rc; romancatholic; teilhardism; vatican
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To: Poe White Trash

Well and sharply put. Thx.


401 posted on 08/23/2009 9:33:52 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler

Much agree.

Very well put.

However, defending the indefensible on such threads seems to be a cottage industry in some households.

I was just reflecting a bit ago . . . in my own current congregation . . .

From the Pastor on down, there’s a persistent fight, struggle to resist, avoid, lay aside,

RELIGION

in all it’s pervasive insideous flavors and inroads.

IT’s a never ending struggle. It is human nature to make of

every practice, behavior etc. related to God

a RELIGIOUS experience . . . a ritual, a manipulation, a script, a canned tidy little box.

Of course it’s worse for organizations 1600 years old as the Vatican et al . . . but it’s there in every congregation.


402 posted on 08/23/2009 9:37:30 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Poe White Trash; Alamo-Girl; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings
Want to limit profit world-wide? (cf. Section 21)

I didn't find the word "limit" in connection with "profit" in Section 21.

Here's Section 21: p>

21. Paul VI had an articulated vision of development. He understood the term to indicate the goal of rescuing peoples, first and foremost, from hunger, deprivation, endemic diseases and illiteracy. From the economic point of view, this meant their active participation, on equal terms, in the international economic process; from the social point of view, it meant their evolution into educated societies marked by solidarity; from the political point of view, it meant the consolidation of democratic regimes capable of ensuring freedom and peace. After so many years, as we observe with concern the developments and perspectives of the succession of crises that afflict the world today, we ask to what extent Paul VI's expectations have been fulfilled by the model of development adopted in recent decades. We recognize, therefore, that the Church had good reason to be concerned about the capacity of a purely technological society to set realistic goals and to make good use of the instruments at its disposal. Profit is useful if it serves as a means towards an end that provides a sense both of how to produce it and how to make good use of it. Once profit becomes the exclusive goal, if it is produced by improper means and without the common good as its ultimate end, it risks destroying wealth and creating poverty. The economic development that Paul VI hoped to see was meant to produce real growth, of benefit to everyone and genuinely sustainable. It is true that growth has taken place, and it continues to be a positive factor that has lifted billions of people out of misery — recently it has given many countries the possibility of becoming effective players in international politics. Yet it must be acknowledged that this same economic growth has been and continues to be weighed down by malfunctions and dramatic problems, highlighted even further by the current crisis. This presents us with choices that cannot be postponed concerning nothing less than the destiny of man, who, moreover, cannot prescind from his nature. The technical forces in play, the global interrelations, the damaging effects on the real economy of badly managed and largely speculative financial dealing, large-scale migration of peoples, often provoked by some particular circumstance and then given insufficient attention, the unregulated exploitation of the earth's resources: all this leads us today to reflect on the measures that would be necessary to provide a solution to problems that are not only new in comparison to those addressed by Pope Paul VI, but also, and above all, of decisive impact upon the present and future good of humanity. The different aspects of the crisis, its solutions, and any new development that the future may bring, are increasingly interconnected, they imply one another, they require new efforts of holistic understanding and a new humanistic synthesis. The complexity and gravity of the present economic situation rightly cause us concern, but we must adopt a realistic attitude as we take up with confidence and hope the new responsibilities to which we are called by the prospect of a world in need of profound cultural renewal, a world that needs to rediscover fundamental values on which to build a better future. The current crisis obliges us to re-plan our journey, to set ourselves new rules and to discover new forms of commitment, to build on positive experiences and to reject negative ones. The crisis thus becomes an opportunity for discernment, in which to shape a new vision for the future. In this spirit, with confidence rather than resignation, it is appropriate to address the difficulties of the present time. [Itals in the original]

Much vision, no "technical plans" for implementation of anything. But then, that's not the Church's job, as Pope Benedict himself tells us early on in .

No, I haven't read Twain's "The War Prayer." Must look it up! Is this something he produced late in life? IIRC, his late years sadly were marked by darkness and depression.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful essay/post, Poe White Trash!

403 posted on 08/23/2009 10:24:01 AM PDT by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: B-Chan
See my posts here, here, here, here, and especially here on the issue of subsidiarity.

To contend that "subsidiarity" softens the Pope's stance on world government is a sign of extreme naivete unbecoming anyone who calls himself a conservative. It suggests severe unfamiliarty with the uses and functions of power.

404 posted on 08/23/2009 10:52:59 AM PDT by beckett (Amor Fati)
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To: Star Traveler
As for me..., I’ll leave *any church* in an instant, the second they start departing from teaching God’s inerrant and infallible Word, which is the Bible.

As for me, I will not leave the Church founded by Christ just because they depart from teaching your own personal interpretation of God's inerrant and infallible Word, which is the Bible.

405 posted on 08/23/2009 11:09:25 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Star Traveler
...what it is — is — giving the Word of God, so that one can adhere to that same Word of God...

You're not just giving the Word of God (redacted and mistranslated as your version is), you're also giving your own personal interpretation of Scripture.

You're entitled to it, but I'll stick with the Church founded by Christ Himself.

406 posted on 08/23/2009 11:12:02 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Star Traveler
I would agree that the Bible does not agree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church...

Agree with whom?

...you are so right there...

Your deceitful attempt to jam your words in my mouth has failed.

407 posted on 08/23/2009 11:13:32 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: B-Chan
Don’t bother with this crowd.

I pop in for time to time to rebuke their scandalous lies, and to watch in awe as they mawkishly congratulate each other for spinning ever more vicious slanders of the Church founded by Christ.

408 posted on 08/23/2009 11:16:24 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: betty boop

>>> I didn’t find the word “limit” in connection with “profit” in Section 21. <<<

Sometimes an idea is not limited to the presence of a single word. Look again:

“We recognize, therefore, that the Church had good reason to be concerned about the capacity of a purely technological society to set realistic goals and to make good use of the instruments at its disposal. Profit is useful if it serves as a means towards an end that provides a sense both of how to produce it and how to make good use of it. Once profit becomes the exclusive goal, if it is produced by improper means and without the common good as its ultimate end, it risks destroying wealth and creating poverty. The economic development that Paul VI hoped to see was meant to produce real growth, of benefit to everyone and genuinely sustainable.”

Let’s see: setting “realistic goals”; making good (as opposed to bad) use of (financial?) instruments; a call to support good, as opposed to bad, profit; concern with “sustainability.” Yes, I think it’s clear that BXVI is talking about setting LIMITS to what he calls the “international economic process.” In with the good, out with the bad: isn’t that a setting of limits?

Now, I trust that many here would look upon these suggestions as trivial in the sense that everyone wants the Good as opposed to Bad in terms of profit; that everyone would agree that avarice is a sin and should be avoided; desire that economic processes should be sustainable. And so forth.

However, to present a vision of the Good is to make a political statement. It’s a solicitation to men of good will to do what is right, to CHOOSE the good when other options are available. Which is to say that I couldn’t disagree more when you wrote in post #144 that “Caritas in Veritate is NOT a political programme.”

Just because BXVI doesn’t provide detailed “technical plans” to tell us what is to be done, the goals that he sets in _Caritas_ trace out definite human responses.

Set limits to global economic processes? Guarantee a world-wide human right to food, to water, and — as I read in the article on BXVI’s “new humanism” — a global right to peace? Establish or support “mechanisms of wealth redistribution”? Please tell me, in a world built out of the crooked timber of humanity how is this possible without violence or the threat of violence from specific agents; without the establishment of huge bureaucracies with the power to enforce their codes; without the establishment of an effective world-wide controlling authority?

As for “subsidiarity”: I’ve read that it is a “fundamental principle” of EU law. And, as we all know, the bureaucrats in Brussels have been oh so careful to follow this principle when promulgating rules to the nations of Europe. Quix and others are right: it’s merely what the Germans call schwarmerei.


409 posted on 08/23/2009 11:25:15 AM PDT by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: Star Traveler
“Don’t bother with the crowd who adheres to the Gospel, according to the Bible. Instead, stay with the crowd that adheres to the Catholic Catechism.”

A distinction without a difference.

410 posted on 08/23/2009 11:29:37 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Star Traveler

The Catholic Church is a Bible-believing Church.


411 posted on 08/23/2009 11:44:14 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Quix
Thank you for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!
412 posted on 08/23/2009 11:56:36 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop

I don’t think his lofty conjectures are founded in anything remotely practically probable before Armageddon.

That’s why they are more than a bit curious, to me.


413 posted on 08/23/2009 12:05:30 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: beckett

I rather agree with you.

Seems like such words are thrown about as sugar to make the medicine go down. Isn’t working on me.


414 posted on 08/23/2009 12:06:18 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Petronski

Lots of folks stay around worshiping a dry husk of an empty shell of a structure

long after God has left the building.


415 posted on 08/23/2009 12:07:33 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Petronski

THAT Hasn’t been my observation.


416 posted on 08/23/2009 12:08:14 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Petronski

Sometimes such absurd assertions are funny . . . when they aren’t so pitiful.


417 posted on 08/23/2009 12:09:09 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Poe White Trash

Excellent points, I think.


418 posted on 08/23/2009 12:09:57 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Petronski

What a knee slapper!

419 posted on 08/23/2009 12:10:54 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

I trust Betty Boop will respond to them!


420 posted on 08/23/2009 12:22:03 PM PDT by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: beckett

Whatever.


421 posted on 08/23/2009 12:23:45 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Poe White Trash; betty boop

She’s a gem, for sure. However, she too marches to her own drum.


422 posted on 08/23/2009 12:29:14 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Petronski; BlackElk
Don't judge them, Petronski. They think they're doing good.

Our job is not to argue or debate the Truth. The Truth is what it is -- the Faith as handed down to us by two thousand years of Tradition. Our job is to present that Truth, and to lovingly correct any errors of fact that may be propagated as truth. That being done, it's counterproductive to say more. Instead, let's pray for them. They need it. Imagine the burden of being your own personal Pope, on duty 24/7, a "church" of one, dependent solely upon one's own personal interpretation of King James' version of the Scripture that our Church gave them for comfort. No saints, no Mary, just themselves and a book of printed pages. How lonely and sad. Talk about a hell on earth!

The Protestant Heresy is almost dead. Like Arianism, it had its day, but it was always a house built upon sand. The Anglicans/Episcopalians are gone; the Presbyterians, Methodists, and Lutherans are going; and even the Baptists are crumbling, worn away by the flow of modernism and the corrosion of individual religion. As for the Evangelicals, the good and true among them are slowly but surely returning to the Church. The rest will continue to self-interpret and Pharisee along until the social structures that support them collapse. Then, with the wolves at the gates, they too will rush to the doors of St. Peter -- and those doors will open.

When it all comes rumbling down, the Church will be here. As BlackElk once said, "the Catholic Church has shoveled two thousand years of dirt upon the faces of its enemies"; the heresy of Martin Luther and John Calvin, and the self-centered hedonism of the Evangelical movement, are only the latest two bodies to bury. Heresy and schism comes and goes; the true Church abides.

423 posted on 08/23/2009 12:44:22 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Poe White Trash

424 posted on 08/23/2009 12:44:56 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Quix

425 posted on 08/23/2009 12:45:24 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan; Blogger; Star Traveler

Stuttering fingers. Fascinating.

Does that come from fingering so many rosaries so obsessively?


426 posted on 08/23/2009 12:48:46 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop

>>> No, I haven’t read Twain’s “The War Prayer.” Must look it up! Is this something he produced late in life? IIRC, his late years sadly were marked by darkness and depression. <<<

Yes, it was written about 1896-1897. Can’t find my edition of Twain in the “pile,” so I’m not sure exactly when. Supposedly prompted by the US intervention in the Philippines, but I can’t help but think that it was inspired by his disillusionment with the War of Southern Rebellion.

Here it is:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_War_Prayer


427 posted on 08/23/2009 12:50:29 PM PDT by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: B-Chan; Star Traveler; Poe White Trash

MORE AMAZING JOKES
FROM THE MAGICSTERICAL!
Cute!
Though idolizing
A 1600 year old human structure
is plenty ugly.

428 posted on 08/23/2009 12:52:01 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Looks like B-chan wants to hi-jack the thread so that he can torpedo the discussion on _Caritas in veritate_.

Don’t take the bait!


429 posted on 08/23/2009 12:53:40 PM PDT by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: Poe White Trash

Could be! LOL.

Thx.


430 posted on 08/23/2009 1:25:42 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: B-Chan
They think they're doing good.

I cannot read their minds. I can only know their fruits.

431 posted on 08/23/2009 2:27:10 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Poe White Trash
Actually, I can think of few groups of people I despise more than paleocons and their ilk. I’m pro-immigration, pro free trade. I loathe anti-semites and racists — which is to say that I think Pat Buchanan is a stinker. You lost your bet.

Ah the subtle nuances of the neocon. Well you guys ran the Bush white house, so don't blame the paleos for That Mess.

Pat is niether a racist or an anti-Semite. Personally, I do not see why we need to involve ourselves in globalist intervention and make cannon fodder out of our citizens, but hey neocons love a borderless world, foreign intervention and bigger government. I love immigration and I hate the equation of illegals to immigrants: they are NOT the same.

432 posted on 08/23/2009 2:57:55 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Conservatism is primarily a Christian movement.)
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To: Petronski

Well, will you trust me regarding their motives? I used to be one of them. They think the Church is the Whore of Babylon and they’re trying to save us from it. I know, it’s stupid, but bear with them. Their intentions are good.

We’ve refuted their non-arguments point by point and it still isn’t enough, so let’s let them be. Like I said, we’re not here to be the best debaters on Earth (although I’ve regularly whipped the pants off many, many others like them here on FR over the years); we are here to be the most loving people on Earth.

There are many lurkers who read these type threads that will silently judge us my what we write here, so let’s be good examples of Christian charity. We’ve had our say, they’ve had theirs, nobody has changed their mind, so there’s no point in going on and on about it. The Truth is out there; all we can do is pray that our separated brethren come to know it, as we have.


433 posted on 08/23/2009 3:13:02 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan; Petronski
I respect your point of view, but imho, the truth is always a goal worthy of pursuing.
434 posted on 08/23/2009 3:16:13 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Poe White Trash

There’s nothing left to discuss. I’ve thoroughly refuted each claim you guys have made, using words taken straight from the text. None of you has been able to formulate a reasoned reply. The discussion is therefore over. Chalk up another online victory for B-Chan.


435 posted on 08/23/2009 3:16:13 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
Chalk up another online victory for B-Chan.

********************

And isn't that the truth? :)

436 posted on 08/23/2009 3:17:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
And how shall we recognize the truth when we catch it? To do that, we'd need God Almighty, or at the very least an authority established by Him personally with the power to infallibly define the Truth. Too bad there is no such authority on earth OH WAIT THERE IS
437 posted on 08/23/2009 3:21:41 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

:) There is indeed.


438 posted on 08/23/2009 3:25:32 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: B-Chan
We’ve had our say, they’ve had theirs...

When the example is our say about how salvation is attained v. their say about salvation is attained, well, I would agree with you.

We part company when the example is what THEY CLAIM the Catholic Church teaches about attaining salvation v. what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY DOES teach about attaining salvation.

439 posted on 08/23/2009 3:35:59 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski; B-Chan
We part company when the example is what THEY CLAIM the Catholic Church teaches about attaining salvation v. what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY DOES teach about attaining salvation.

******************

Agreed. Letting misinformation stand does not advance the understanding of lurkers or participants of these threads. It may even encourage misunderstanding.

440 posted on 08/23/2009 3:49:49 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Petronski

Believe me, you could post the relevant teaching straight from Catechism and they’d still tell you that the Church teaches something else. Just leave ‘em be.


441 posted on 08/23/2009 3:50:01 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan; Petronski
Quite right. Still, Petronski is a most valiant defender of our Church and faith. For that, I admire him greatly.
442 posted on 08/23/2009 4:03:04 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Petronski; Star Traveler
[ As for me, I will not leave the Church founded by Christ just because they depart from teaching your own personal interpretation of God's inerrant and infallible Word, which is the Bible. ]

All christian churchs think they are founded by christ..

Actually NONE are..

The church was founded by the Holy Spirit..
The church IS the Body of Christ.. and the Bride of Christ..
Which are the same thing in different metaphors..

All it takes is a few minutes at a meeting of some church..
To detect whether the Holy Spirit is there or is cut out of the loop..

Many churchs have no need of the Holy Spirit..
He would just mess up their drama.. and disinformation..
Not all christians are christians..

443 posted on 08/23/2009 4:30:28 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe
Actually NONE are...

Your own personal interpretation of Scripture is of no use to me. You are welcome to it. I will stick with the Church founded by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit to this day: The Catholic Church.

444 posted on 08/23/2009 4:32:20 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Quix

Yep, a spirit of religion permeates Christianity and needs to be cast out in Jesus’ name so HE can get done what He longs to do in our midst.


445 posted on 08/23/2009 4:49:07 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Petronski
[ I will stick with the Church founded by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit to this day: The Catholic Church. ]

The Roman Catholic church has no need of the Holy Spirit..
And can operate fully without him.. and does/do..

However some Roman orthodox believers do need him and know him..
As John ch 10 says.. some go in and out of the sheep pen..
Sadly its the same with some protestant situations..

Some christians love the acrid odors and sqwish between their toes in the sheep pens..

446 posted on 08/23/2009 4:51:29 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Quix

Amen, Quix.


447 posted on 08/23/2009 4:52:25 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: B-Chan

But the true Body of Christ, His family of believers, will not fall. Even the Catholic church will fall one day. Then what will you do? Only Jesus, my friend. He will sustain all of us who put our faith in trust in HIM and not in any church.


448 posted on 08/23/2009 4:54:16 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Marysecretary; Lee N. Field; Petronski; Blogger; Outership; Dr. Eckleburg

YUP.

I don’t know what jerks folks chains the most . . .

psycho-dynamic pride stuff from ATTACHMENT DISORDERED childhoods in and of itself

or

ditto as addicted to RELIGION.

They sure seem to go together a lot.

Alas, watching their dance is a short-term entertainment attraction at best.

Maybe if we gave them funny little hats the dance would be more entertaining longer.


449 posted on 08/23/2009 4:54:21 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: hosepipe

You put things sooooo well! LOL.


450 posted on 08/23/2009 4:55:02 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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