Posted on 08/20/2009 12:30:40 PM PDT by IbJensen
Good grief, PWT — then what is the point of Christianity? You seem to suggest in these lines that it is a dangerous, misleading thing.
>>> And just who or what is supposed to make up this global authority who will control America’s national sovereignty? <<<
Brussels sprouts.
I have already given a "backgrounder" on the "with teeth" episode.
I gather you were not at all persuaded by it.
Not at all, 1000silverlings. People see what they see. But the criterion here is not what people see, from their viewpoint. The criterion is the Truth of God.
What “Truth of God”?
He is not arguing for "global control!" He is arguing for the Christian Spirit as having a fruitful role to play in the working out of human society.
The Truth that God reveals in His four revelations to us — Holy Scripture, the "Book of Nature," the Incarnation of Christ, and the Holy Spirit with us.
As the late (sainted!) Francis Schaeffer put it, God tells us truthfully of Himself — truthfully, but not exhaustively.
Well if you are relating all of those in some way to the Pope, that is just your own personal interpretation of the Truth of God.
Well I thank you kindly in return, dear brother in Christ. But I'm not attempting to "mind read you." I'm just trying to understand your argument. And at this point, I'm no further ahead than I ever was before.
Lol. That’s preferable to a few other options a lot harder to swallow. 8~)
I am not relating these things in any way to the Pope — I am relating these things to God's revelations. We ALL have the same revelations from God! He sends them for ALL of us.
If that were all he was arguing for, no Christian should have a problem with it.
But the pope has gone far beyond this "Christian spirit."
What is this global authority with the power of enforcement? Specifically.
### To look at that, and to say in one’s heart that “I can do better, for I have Christian spirituality and Christian ethics on my side,” is — I would argue — to tread a very old and very dangerous path. It saddens me to see that BXVI appears to be on it. ###
>>> Good grief, PWT — then what is the point of Christianity? <<<
Context is important, don’t you think? My “that” in the above sentence refers to the disasterous Bolshevik attempt to solve the problem of international capitalism. Do you really think that the Christian thing for BXVI to do is to step up to plate for his turn at bat?
I don’t think that the point of Christianity is to engage in international power politics and incite what is tantamount to a revolutionary approach to world capitalism. If the Church does THAT, who will be able to hear the word of the Lord over the resulting din?
>>> You seem to suggest in these lines that it is a dangerous, misleading thing. <<<
What I am suggesting is that to be in the world and NOT of the world is not an easy thing. Which is to say that in _Caritas_ I see BXVI advancing a political position that places him and the Church “of the world” to a dangerous degree. What I see is BXVI at the brink of an abyss; my response is to yell “Step back! STEP BACK!”
A Christian Spirit with “teeth” no less from the guy that wrote something about having the Inquisition reinstated?
A Christian spirit with “teeth” is like coercive charity — an oxymoron.
Perhaps that’s another way of putting it — that the _Caritas_ Encyclical, on the whole, has an oxymoronic quality to it.
>>> something about having the Inquisition reinstated? <<<
Geepers, don’t mention the I-word! You really want to derail this discussion, don’t you?
In chapter 11,
1) Paul starts by pointing out that God has always kept a remnant of the faithful even when the vast majority were in open idolatry.
2) He goes on to point out that the Gentiles partake of Israel's (family) tree by a miracle of God. He warns that the Gentile branches can be broken off just as swiftly as the natural branches.
3)
3) And it is in the light of the above that he said, "all Israel will be saved, as it is written . . . Concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your (the Gentiles') sakes, but in regards to election, they are beloved for the Patriarch's sakes."
The only way you can get around that plain interpretation is to either deny the "remnant of Israel now/all of Israel in the future" dichotomy that Paul is clearly setting up or to claim that the Church is the enemy of the Gospel because of the Gentiles that were grafted in. Frankly, I know Jews who might agree with that second interpretation, given how the visible church has treated the Lord's people in the name of a distorted "gospel"--but I wouldn't think that you'd prefer that interpretation to a straightforward reading that the Father will be reconciled with His firstborn son.
Shalom.
This pope is on record as calling all other religions other than Catholicism "defective" so he can't be planning in putting teeth in say, a Hindu's mouth.
How old are you? Maybe you should go back to reading the New York Times.
Then by all means keep on sinning! Meanwhile we have the Master's warning:
Matthew 7:21-29
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
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