The Air Force Seeks the F-22's Low-Tech Alternative (bring back the Mustang?)

Time ^ | 8/27/2009 | Mark Thompson

[markomalley]

The Air Force spent years fighting to keep building the $350 million F-22 fighter, an airplane crammed with so much gee-whiz technology there's a law barring it from being sold to any other nation. But since no other nation is building such a plane to challenge it, the F-22 has become a costly investment with an uncertain payoff, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates just killed it. That sent an unmistakable message to the two new top Air Force officials Gates recently appointed, and now the service is seeking 100 slower, lower-flying and far cheaper airplanes — most likely prop-driven — that it can use to kill insurgents today and use to train local pilots — such as Afghans or Iraqis — tomorrow.

The list of requirements for what the Air Force is calling its Light Attack Armed Reconnaissance plane is fairly basic, and harkens back to the Vietnam-era A-1 Skyraider. It must be capable of flying 900-mile missions at up to 200 miles per hour (compared with up to 1500 mph for the F-22), including at night and poor weather. It will carry guns and rockets, along with a pair of 500-pound bombs, according to an Air Force solicitation issued last month. It will have to fly to and from dirt airfields where the only ground support is fuel. The its two pilots will have warning systems for enemy radars and missiles, an armored cockpit and self-sealing fuel tanks — and ejection seats if those protections fail. It should convert from an attack plane to a trainer by simply removing those weapons.

[Little Ray]

It should DEFINITELY should belong to someone other than the USAF...

[mcshot]

I recall that Ol Clinton really worked at leveling the playing field - with missile guidance and nuke technology.

[Texas Jack]

Wonder how a 200 mph plane would stand up to surface-to-air missiles? /sarc

They won't need a surface-to-air missile. At 200 MPH, the ragheads will be able to shoot them down with light automatic weapons and those 37MM Soviet anti-aircraft guns. Low and slow. They won't even make it to the target area.

It sounds to me as if Gates thinks pilots are expendable.

[Constitution Day]

I’m a big fan of it. My 1st cousin is in a maintenance sqdn. and works on the A-10.

Amazing plane and tough as nails, he says.

[Constitution Day]

Oh, I see what he meant now. Thanks!

[762X51]

I think the plane they are describing already exist. Of course we'd have to buy it from Brazil! The thing is very Mustang-like with it's narrow fuselage. It seems to meet most of the requirements.

[mcshot]

Are there some at the bone yard in Arizona?

[ArrogantBustard]

The loaded weight of that aircraft (~10,000 lbs) is less than the A-10’s bombload (16,000 lbs).

[cripplecreek]

Reminds me of my grandfather’s story about being on big slag heaps in Belgium (I think). He said the angle was wrong for the German planes to strafe their position but they came over so low that the guys were bouncing rocks off their underbellies when they flew over.

[Nuc1]

Don’t they pretty much have one of these? The Warthog?

[papasmurf]

A-10's. There isn't anything more capable, efficient, and durable as a "Hog". As a former Soldier, there wasn't any other aircraft I would rather have supporting me in combat.

The A-10 is one of smartest designs we've ever had. The aircraft is designed to fly with one engine, one tail, one elevator and half a wing torn off. It's designed, and the only aircraft we have so designed, to survive belly landings.

The pilot sits in an armored Titanium "tub", and, in case you missed it, they'll bring their pilots home, almost regardless of the damage they have sustained...



Currently in inventory... Air Force-A-10 Thunderbolt II
A-10A 273
A-10C 1
OA-10A 94
Scheduled to continue flying until 2028.

Regardless of how truly great the A-10 is, I don't get the connection to the F-22 Raptor?

As a refresher, all should visit the A-10 Wiki , it's very good.

[mcshot]

And to that “poltron” we are the enemy as we love our Constitution and Country.

[GonzoGOP]

Actually if you wanted to have fun with an old aircraft how about the Gotha Go 229. Plywood construction, twin engine, flying wing design. Jet exhausts on top of the wing so no IR from below. Decent speed, especially if you use modern turbofan engines in place of the 1st gen jets it was built with. Move the air intakes to the top of the wing and this thing disappears. Was armed with 4 x 30mm cannon and an internal bomb bay. Sure it doesn't have a GAU-8 but ya can't have everything.

[calex59]

I thought I would just remind everyone that we already have aircraft that meet this requirement. They are called Helicopters, they can fly at 200 MPH, they can hold the bombs and guns and they can be shot out of the sky just as easy as a fixed wing aircraft that can only fly at 200 MPH. This whole article has to be satire, if it is not someone has gone sh** house crazy. Someone said bring back the P51, why? It could fly almost 500 MPH and with todays technology might actually hit 500. It is too fast for Gates. The P47 would be good, but it too was way faster than 200 MPH. Both of these planes would be hard for a ground crew to bring down but Helicopters flying at 200 MPH, or slower, would be easy to shoot down.

This is apparently what they want. No air superiority, just vulnerable aircraft going in to get slaughtered so Bozo can let his muslim buddies win one for the pedophile prophet.

[calex59]

We have one of those, it is called the B2.

[TLI]

YEP! Pretty good...
Specifications (OV-10D):
Engines: Two 1,040-shp Garret T76-G-420/421 turboprops
Weight: Empty 6,893 lbs., Max Takeoff 14,444 lbs.
Wing Span: 40ft. 0in.
Length: 44ft. 0in.
Height: 15ft. 2in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed at Sea Level: 288 mph
Ceiling: 30,000 ft.
Range: 430 miles in full combat configuration.
Armament: Up to 3,600 pounds of assorted bombs, cannon, machine guns and missiles on five weapon attachment points; plus 1,200 pounds of bombs on two underwing pylons. Wing pylons can also carry missiles or external fuel tanks.

[ArrogantBustard]

Article is from "Time" magazine.

What do you expect?

[GonzoGOP]

We have one of those, it is called the B2.

Well the guys at Northrop did borrow the only surviving Go-229 and the technical drawings from the Smithsonian during the design of the B-2. So while you couldn't prove it their may be some family resemblance. My point was rather than build it out of super high tech materials that cost billions, us plywood. It is cheap, easy to repair, absorbs radar, doesn't have rivet lines (that show up on radar) like metal, and quite literally grows on trees. And with modern resins it can be made more than strong enough for anything except a front line interceptor.

[Justa]

I don’t think liquid-cooled engines are suitable for a ground-support role. Imo radial is the way to go.

[joe fonebone]

there are times when only the most sophisticated 5th gen aircraft will do....there are times when overwhelming numbers of less sophisticated aircraft will do...the problem is and always will be balancing the 2 ideals