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Princess Diana's Death Offers Lessons for Health Care Debate, 12 Years Later
ABC News ^ | August 31, 2009 | Susan Donaldson James

Posted on 08/31/2009 9:17:36 AM PDT by La Lydia

...The horrific accident (that killed Diana) illustrated the difference between the French and U.S. approaches to emergency care -- a relatively small piece of the French medical system, but deemed by some people to be the best in the world and often cited as a model for U.S. health care overhaul.

When rescue workers arrived, Diana was conscious...although she had suffered internal injuries, she did not arrive at the Parisian hospital for 110 minutes -- too late for the surgery that some speculated could have saved her life. Her last hour -- in cardiac arrest and bleeding to death -- was spent in a mobile medical unit parked a few hundred yards from Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital, where an emergency team followed French protocol and administered treatment at the scene of the accident and en route...many people surmised that had a U.S. ambulance responded, Diana would have been rushed to the nearest emergency room, where a full set of professionals and diagnostic equipment might have revived her.

Colloquially known as "scoop and run," the U.S. system is grounded in studies that show a trauma victim's best chance for survival is reaching the operating room within 10 minutes. Under the French system, "stay and play," a fully equipped medical ambulance with a doctor stabilizes the patient and then directs him or her to a specialized hospital, even if it is miles away.

"When a patient rolls into the American system, they have a level-one trauma center that runs 24/7, with every specialty and myriad resources..." said Dr. Preeti Jois-Bilowich at the University of Florida's Shands Hospital....

The SAMU team spent an hour treating Diana in the tunnel. Then, following French standards aimed at not further injuring the victim, they drove slowly to the hospital about 4 miles away...

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: emergencycare; france; french; socializedmedicine

1 posted on 08/31/2009 9:17:36 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia
Princess Diana's Death Offers Lessons for Health Care Debate, 12 Years Later

And what lesson is that, "Just Let the Papparazzi Take Your Damn Picture."

2 posted on 08/31/2009 9:18:54 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I don’t understand what you’re saying. I snipped out the part about the paparazzi.


3 posted on 08/31/2009 9:20:20 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

Is ABC actually pointing out deficiencies in the state run healthcare system in France??? Amazing. Immediate attention in a U.S. trauma ER would probably have save Dianna. Interesting point.


4 posted on 08/31/2009 9:23:32 AM PDT by downtownconservative (As Obama lies, liberty dies!)
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To: dfwgator

You should read what was posted. The French treat at the scene. We take people to trauma centers where they can actually be treated.


5 posted on 08/31/2009 9:26:19 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Royalty Ping.


6 posted on 08/31/2009 9:30:00 AM PDT by Pan_Yan (All gray areas are fabrications.)
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To: La Lydia

Interesting article. Basically doesn’t say one system is better than other. What’s not mentioned, however is the cost to the individual Frenchman.


7 posted on 08/31/2009 9:31:21 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: La Lydia

...many people surmised that had a U.S. ambulance responded, Diana would have been rushed to the nearest emergency room, where a full set of professionals and diagnostic equipment might have revived her.


so 12 years after her death people assume what might have been better? so they might had revived her? sorry but i guess we will never know. it´s allways easy to say (after someone has died) what might could have been better in a specific case.


8 posted on 08/31/2009 9:34:42 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: dfwgator

Just let her rest in peace. What did she ever do to you that you have to make such comments?


9 posted on 08/31/2009 9:37:54 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Portcall24
Basically doesn’t say one system is better than other

It does say her chance of survival would have been better if she had been taken to a hospital per the american model vs being treated at the scene and en route. One can come to their own conclusion about whether dying is better than surviving I suppose

10 posted on 08/31/2009 9:38:43 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Amazing after over 50 years of EMS, they are still doing it that way. How long ago did stay and play go away in the states? 1980’s. This also happened in Canada a few years ago, some celebrity hit her head skiing and they didn’t life-flight her to a hospital with a CT scanner and a Neurosurgeon.


11 posted on 08/31/2009 9:39:35 AM PDT by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: La Lydia
Colloquially known as "scoop and run," the U.S. system is grounded in studies that show a trauma victim's best chance for survival is reaching the operating room within 10 minutes. Under the French system, "stay and play," a fully equipped medical ambulance with a doctor stabilizes the patient and then directs him or her to a specialized hospital, even if it is miles away.

I could see how either one would be better in some situations. I don't have any information which one would be best overall. Maybe it would be possible to tell at the scene of an accident that the only chance of survival is which type of treatment is needed - rush to the hospital or perform surgery on site, but even then the time to decide would kill some who could have been saved by the "scoop and run".

My gut reaction is that our method is best because there is a lot of diagnostic equipment like x-rays, CAT scans, MRIs and various lab tests which you can't just bring along in any vehicle.

12 posted on 08/31/2009 9:40:40 AM PDT by KarlInOhio ("I can run wild for six months ...after that, I have no expectation of success" - Admiral Obama-moto)
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To: DJ MacWoW

As a paramedic in a large US city, I’d ask you not to judge too harshly. Until relatively recently, “stay and play” was the standard of care for all trauma patients...the “Stay and play” meaning airway,oxygen,full immobilization, multiple IVs established and fluid resuscitation initiated, and a full external exam to determine all injuries.

It was established (arguably) about 10-15 years ago that IV fluid resuscitation simply was not effective, and even plasma or blood transfusion were of limited effectiveness. In other words, the best way to save the life of someone who was bleeding was not to “replace” the blood, it was to stop the bleeding. For patients with internal injuries, this means surgery. Thus the US standards have evolved into what was cutely termed as “scoop and swoop”, but which more accurately entails airway control, cervical/spinal immobilization, and rapid transport to an accredited trauma center.


13 posted on 08/31/2009 9:42:26 AM PDT by FreeperinRATcage (I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for every thing I do. - R. A. Heinlein)
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To: ClayinVA

Actually, Natasha Richardson’s ski accident was in March 2009.


14 posted on 08/31/2009 9:44:16 AM PDT by JeffChrz (Atlas will shrug.)
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To: ClayinVA

The star was Liam Neesons wife, Natasha Richardson. She refused medical attention. By the time she told people she didn’t feel well and had a headache, it was too late. The press went for the dramatic not necessarily the truth. A lot of people don’t realize how serious a bump on the head can be.


15 posted on 08/31/2009 9:44:38 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: FreeperinRATcage

I think the point was that we did learn and have darn good medical care as opposed to other countries.


16 posted on 08/31/2009 9:47:29 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: FreeperinRATcage

It was gone by 1994 in Virginia outside of the inner cities, I remember very strict guidelines when I was going thru EMS training. Most of the time in the Rural areas, the patient is med-flighted directly to the Trauma center. The area I live in really started upgrading EMS back in the late 80’s. Volunteer depts started to give way to full-timer paramedics units.


17 posted on 08/31/2009 9:53:00 AM PDT by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: Portcall24

IT POINTS OUT A HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Diana most likely would have Lived under the U.S. System!
By th end of the 1 Hour and 10 minutes it took the Frenchmen to get her to the ER, she would have been in Surgery for 1 FULL Hour with Full Life Support and a Ful Trauma Tem of Surgeons working on her in the U.S.!

But under OBOZO’S CUBAN HEALTH PLAN, NOT unlike the French, all of EXTRA COST of the ER and Surgery was Saved because they wasted enough time that Poor Diana didn’t need it by the time they got her to the Hospital....:-(


18 posted on 08/31/2009 10:01:16 AM PDT by True Republican Patriot (May GOD Continue to BLESS Our Great President George W. Bush!!)
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To: DJ MacWoW
I believe the fact that Canada did not have the Trauma Center also contributed. If she was in USA she would have been saved.
19 posted on 08/31/2009 10:05:34 AM PDT by angcat (GO YANKEES! I LOVE MY YANKEES!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Portcall24

I had a Frenchman in my house the other day and I asked him about this. He loves the French health care - said it’s part of their taxes and there are no bills he would ever see. He had no complaints but also didn’t know if you had to pay into the system before you got services.

He also said that their retirement is way better than social security - they get a percentage of the salary they made while working. I have to admit that our s/s is pitiful - used as a vote buying fund by our corrupt politicians.

He thinks our system is tough on the citizens here.

I’m not saying this in defense of the proposed health care at all - but what I suspect is we could do a lot better without the political takeover that the rats are proposing. But first we would have to clean out the illegals, tons of pork, foreign giveaways, etc. and the only person I can think of with the balls to do this is Sarah.


20 posted on 08/31/2009 10:05:37 AM PDT by Aria ( "The US republic will endure until Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the people's $.")
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To: True Republican Patriot

Diana most likely would have Lived under the U.S. System!
By th end of the 1 Hour and 10 minutes it took the Frenchmen to get her to the ER, she would have been in Surgery for 1 FULL Hour with Full Life Support and a Ful Trauma Tem of Surgeons working on her in the U.S


well maybe but the point is there exist nothing like the perfekt system. i´m shure there are specific situations where the french model for example would have turned out to
be the better. it allways depends on the situation. btw. who can say that i would have took them “only” 10 min to get
her in an emergency room in the US? there are many different factors wich influence how much time it will take to bring someone to a hospital. even personal luck (maybe the next abulance just is one street away on patrol?) comes into play.


21 posted on 08/31/2009 10:10:05 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: angcat

I thought that I had read once they have a headache and then pass out it’s too late. The pressure has already caused damage. It may have made a difference. The press was dishonest with the facts. They sensationalized it for their benefit, as they do with everything.


22 posted on 08/31/2009 10:10:39 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Aria
We have a choice in this country. Do you want to cut taxes and take care of yourself as was the original plan? Or do you want the government to redistribute your money to those that didn't earn it?

If you paid less in taxes, people could afford to pay for themselves and save money for retirement. Who manages your money better, you? Or government?

23 posted on 08/31/2009 10:15:07 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: DJ MacWoW
I don't know it was terrible either way she seemed like a nice person and of course her children will suffer without their mother.
24 posted on 08/31/2009 10:21:45 AM PDT by angcat (GO YANKEES! I LOVE MY YANKEES!!!!!!!!!)
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To: La Lydia

I’ve been preaching this since the day she died. In the USofA, within fifteen minutes she’d have been triaged and placed on a medical helicopter.

My guess is that they were waiting for The Queen to agree to pay France for the cost of Medical Care.


25 posted on 08/31/2009 10:23:24 AM PDT by HighlyOpinionated (If you cannot make them see the light, make them feel the heat. ~~ Ronald Reagan)
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To: angcat

It was a tragedy.


26 posted on 08/31/2009 10:25:06 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: carton253

I’m sorry she died and all that, but the fact is that they not only endangered the lives of the people in the car, but the lives of others on the road at the time, and why? Just because they didn’t want their picture taken. Not to excuse the paparazzi, but that does not justify endangering the lives of others. I think Di would have liked to have had a “Do Over” on that one.


27 posted on 08/31/2009 10:31:46 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: True Republican Patriot; Jonny foreigner

Actually it is even worse than that it was 110 minutes, according to the article, which is one hour and 50 minutes before she arrived at the hospital.


28 posted on 08/31/2009 10:35:44 AM PDT by protest1
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To: DJ MacWoW

Well I do think the insurance companies and the lawyers need some rules - doesn’t seem right that insurance companies can cancel when they do....and of course the lawyers need to be kneecapped. And we could more insurance competition through interstate policies. I personally have been treated fairly by the insurance companies I’ve had.

My sister lived in Holland and loved their health care system. But we aren’t Holland or France - they’re smaller and don’t think they give away their money for political favors the way we have.

This Obama care seems to be social engineering and sooner or later it will be a death sentence for many.


29 posted on 08/31/2009 10:40:04 AM PDT by Aria ( "The US republic will endure until Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the people's $.")
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To: La Lydia

I think the point of this story is to give fuel to the “Diana was purposely bumped off so Chuck could marry Camilla” conspiracy theory.


30 posted on 08/31/2009 10:43:24 AM PDT by sportutegrl (If liberals could do math, they would be conservatives.)
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To: protest1

Absolutely Correct! The FROGS are even much WORSE than I projected them to be! GIVE ME OUR U.S. HEALTH CARE ANY DAY!! and Keep The KENYAN VILLAGE IDIOT FROM DESTROYING OUR GREAT U.S. HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!!! So far, there hasn’t been one thing about AMERICA that OBOZO HUSSEIN has Praised! NOT ONE!!


31 posted on 08/31/2009 10:47:06 AM PDT by True Republican Patriot (May GOD Continue to BLESS Our Great President George W. Bush!!)
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To: Aria

Insurance companies need competition. Let people buy insurance out of state. Rates went sky high when medicare started as a big chunk of payers were taken out of the pool so rates went up. Doctors that order unnecessary tests also drive up rates. I’m not for limiting tests but there should be some common sense. However you can’t legislate common sense. Also, young people have learned that they’ll be treated whether they have insurance or not so they don’t purchase it. There was a vid posted on FR that was under 30’s talking about spending $500 a month on food and nightclubs but refusing to get insurance since they didn’t have to to get medical care. Greedy idiots.


32 posted on 08/31/2009 11:05:47 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: True Republican Patriot

just a question is this based on your personal experience or to you think the system has to be crap “only” because its french? i have been medical treated in a hospital in france some years ago. i couldn´t say that it was bad.


33 posted on 08/31/2009 11:06:59 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: True Republican Patriot
In France, the government-run Service d'Aide Médicale d'Urgence (SAMU), or Emergency Medical Assistance Service, provides more uniform care, coordinating the mobile resuscitation units. Teams always include one doctor, usually an anesthesiologist or emergency room physician, and a driver who serves as a technician and a nurse paramedic... But Sancton and MacLeod later rescinded their theory, based on evaluations of the medical records, in a 2004 Vanity Fair piece on the British inquest into Diana's death. "I have actually revised my conclusions based on a fascinating series of interviews with a trauma specialist in Houston," Sancton wrote in an e-mail to ABCNews.com. " The bottom line is, whatever the merits or demerits of the French emergency medical system, poor Diana was a goner from the beginning because of the particular nature of her deceleration injury." Sorry I still don't see it. But don't confuse this with any support for OBOZO's POS Plan.
34 posted on 08/31/2009 11:19:15 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: dfwgator

The French have an interesting way of treating cardiac tamponade.


35 posted on 08/31/2009 11:21:04 AM PDT by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: dfwgator
I guess you and I will never know what it is like to be hounded like that by the paparazzi. And because we don't know... it might be hard to judge what people should and shouldn't do in those types of situations.

Without a doubt, DIANA would probably like a do-over, but, to me, that is just stating the obvious.

Have a great day!

36 posted on 08/31/2009 11:27:37 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Jonny foreigner
"so 12 years after her death people assume what might have been better?"

Well, not exactly. I remember that within days of her death American doctors were calling the whole event a travesty and speculating what could have been done for her if the accident had occurred here. At least we would have thrown every bit of our knowledge, expertise, and equipment behind it, and we would have done it in a hospital where all those things are found in abundance.

37 posted on 08/31/2009 12:04:12 PM PDT by Mila
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To: dfwgator

Actually, the lesson is, “Click it or croak it.”


38 posted on 08/31/2009 12:05:41 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: Jonny foreigner

I had actual experience in both Italy and France, I just didn’t like it but it wasn’t life and death. Luckily I had my Life and Death Experience here in the U.S., within mere minutes I was under and being worked on by Fantastic Surgeons and am Blessed to be here Thanking Them and GOD!!...:-)


39 posted on 08/31/2009 12:09:04 PM PDT by True Republican Patriot (May GOD Continue to BLESS Our Great President George W. Bush!!)
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To: carton253

The French have been tweaking their system for over 40 years, mostly reducing costs and paperwork. I like it fine, but of course I’m rarely sick. When something is ailing me, I go see my Doctor, it costs 22€, I get half back, it’s not 100% free. A while back I had a bad earache, so I called a number I have and asked the nurse which hospital specializes in ear problems, he told me and I went to that one. That’s the way it is in Paris, you take your kids to Necker Hospital, they treat livers at St. Antoine hospital, if you have hind side problems it’s Leopold Bellan hospital.
They have set rates for banal procedures too. They can’t charge you an arm and a leg for a procedure that’s been performed for 80 years a million times!


40 posted on 08/31/2009 12:25:18 PM PDT by paristwelve (Feeling sorry for things is just an excuse for not celebrating your own happiness.)
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To: True Republican Patriot

well it wasn´t life or death for me too in france just a minor car accident “taxis drive crazy in paris :-)”(i was just checked in the hospital if every thing is allright).
but i didn´t have to wait long for CT... (and i was in no way an emergency.)
Interesting that you mention a life and death experiance because i had “mine” last tuesday. (at least i was pretty shure that i´m now gonna die) same here in Austria the system worked really fine. friends told me that the ambulance arrived after max. 5 min. (i thought it was longer because this have definitely been the longest 5 minutes in my life). was checked and stabilized by the doctor “most during the driving” (there are emergency doctors in every abulance here too) and about 10 min later i was in a hospital.


41 posted on 08/31/2009 12:28:14 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: paristwelve

just a question are you a french citizen? because i wasn´t (austrian) billed for a single cent for the treatment i achieved in this french hospital. (ok i have a private insurance but even i would had the state insurance i would
get every single cent i would have to pay worldwide back from the insurance.) i´m just interested because the only thing what you have to pay here in austria (no matter what insurance you have) is a standart 5 euro bill per every prescription medicament you have to buy at a drug store no matter what it would cost in “real life”. (btw. if you are really poor you don´t have to pay even this here).


42 posted on 08/31/2009 12:55:39 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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