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Pete Stark Blows Up Over National Debt
You Tube - Jan Helfeld ^

Posted on 09/02/2009 5:30:46 PM PDT by Globalist Goon

Watch Congressman Pete Stark blow up when Jan Helfeld asks him why Stark believes, "the more we owe, the wealthier we are."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhodeficit; fruitcake; moonbats; petestark
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1 posted on 09/02/2009 5:30:46 PM PDT by Globalist Goon
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To: Globalist Goon

Wooo hoooo, I am rich!!!!!!


2 posted on 09/02/2009 5:32:09 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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He threatens his life at the end...this is priceless.


3 posted on 09/02/2009 5:33:59 PM PDT by Globalist Goon ("Head down over a saddle.")
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To: Globalist Goon
Photobucket
4 posted on 09/02/2009 5:34:29 PM PDT by rfp1234
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To: svcw

Need to run up the cards! Then I can be rich.


5 posted on 09/02/2009 5:34:45 PM PDT by Globalist Goon ("Head down over a saddle.")
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To: Globalist Goon

Stark is “gonna say it slowly”

Well Pete, someone should land a ‘fast punch’ on your condescending nose!


6 posted on 09/02/2009 5:34:53 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Globalist Goon

I found the comments more interesting than the video. Mostly because all those libs seem so disconnected from reality.


7 posted on 09/02/2009 5:35:04 PM PDT by benjibrowder (For Neda. May God bless those fighting for freedom.)
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To: benjibrowder

Unbelievable!!!

Hey, these guys are in charge


8 posted on 09/02/2009 5:41:56 PM PDT by fishingking
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To: svcw

I reckon I’m broke. We own our house, business building, tools, and inventory free and clear. Damn, I’ve done it all wrong...


9 posted on 09/02/2009 5:46:12 PM PDT by ExpatGator (Extending logic since 1961.)
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To: Globalist Goon

Pete the idiot wasn’t a total idiot because he knew he was being an idiot but that just infuriated him into more idiotic remarks. Bottom line: he’s an idiot.


10 posted on 09/02/2009 5:49:31 PM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: Globalist Goon
My goodness. What a self-important blowhard.

Even though it does not good whatsoever, I sent him an email telling him "Ta-Ta" because I honestly believe that we are going to send all of his ilk to the unemployment office very soon.

I have read Adam Smith's Wealth Of Nations and do not think he is correct in stating that debt makes a nation wealthy. Hamilton believed that it gave a government ballast, not wealth.

I know many Freepers are much more learned than I, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you.

11 posted on 09/02/2009 5:50:38 PM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Been collecting pitchforks for years - now I know why!)
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To: ExpatGator

I am so sorry...... ;-)


12 posted on 09/02/2009 5:50:48 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: Globalist Goon

What miniature Island does he come from? Who does he represent...crass, no wonder government is in such a mess and confidence in the system is broken. This guy is past tense.


13 posted on 09/02/2009 5:51:24 PM PDT by rovenstinez
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To: benjibrowder

When the riots start, Stark will be hiding under his bed for a while and then they will find him. He will cry like a little baby but they will show no mercy because he tried to stay in office on the money of the unborn that he didn’t successfully kill with abortion. I pray for change so it won’t happen.


14 posted on 09/02/2009 5:52:42 PM PDT by londonfog
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To: Globalist Goon

I don’t have a degree in economics, but I didn’t fall off the turnip truck either. What a fine example of the condescending a$$es in our government - Not an ounce of common sense to be found.


15 posted on 09/02/2009 5:53:49 PM PDT by Bearshouse
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To: Globalist Goon

Mr. Stark’s answers are actually not far at all from the truth regarding the Nation’s debt. In fact, many times he is exactly correct and at times does demonstrate an apparent understanding greater than the man asking the questions (The questioner fails to use this against Mr. Stark and continuously allows Mr. Stark the opportunity to belittle his questions).

However, knowledge and understanding of how the monetary system is contrived in this Nation does not necessarily equate to the monetary system itself being sound policy.

What Mr. Stark fails to point out is that the inflation and deflation of the monetary supply in the Nation is not tied to an economic barometer (say for example - gold), but controlled at the whim of a few to the detriment of many.

He fails to point out that the system is not tied to the combined productive wealth of the Nation, but manipulated to reduce the individual wealth acquired through these productive activities.

He also fails to mention that the present system is arguably un-Constitutional.


16 posted on 09/02/2009 5:55:41 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: Globalist Goon

What a complete anal aperture.


17 posted on 09/02/2009 5:58:21 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: fishingking

Woo Hoo! This is great. I am going to open 10 new credit cards and load em up. I have always wanted to be wealthy.


18 posted on 09/02/2009 5:58:57 PM PDT by kempster
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To: Globalist Goon

This guy is a total idiot. I wish Jan had asked him if the deficit was such a wonderful thing why was it a bad thing under bush when it was a lot less than it is now but a good thing under Bozo and democrats when it is much higher?


19 posted on 09/02/2009 6:01:20 PM PDT by calex59
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To: Globalist Goon

OH MY....I hear the “F” word at the end...I now need to take a nap.


20 posted on 09/02/2009 6:04:51 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: cliniclinical
Mr. Stark’s answers are actually not far at all from the truth regarding the Nation’s debt.

Absolutely NOT!

He nailed Stark on the "Why not increase the spending".

He nailed Stark on the "interest" question.

Stark was made out to be the blathering idiot he is!

21 posted on 09/02/2009 6:07:24 PM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: Globalist Goon

Stark has no Econ degrees, either. His background was engineering.


22 posted on 09/02/2009 6:09:24 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: cliniclinical

“What Mr. Stark fails to point out is that the inflation and deflation of the monetary supply in the Nation is not tied to an economic barometer (say for example - gold), but controlled at the whim of a few to the detriment of many.

He fails to point out that the system is not tied to the combined productive wealth of the Nation, but manipulated to reduce the individual wealth acquired through these productive activities.

He also fails to mention that the present system is arguably un-Constitutional.”

Couldn’t have said it better. You know your stuff.


23 posted on 09/02/2009 6:14:18 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: sausageseller

I don’t want to argue with you, but I stand by what I wrote. Mr. Stark makes many factual points about our monetary system. That doesn’t mean it is the best system, or a Constitutional system, but it is what we have today...

I’m sorry, but even the manipulators know you cannot just increase the debt (monetary supply) dramatically in a short time. Completely crashing the system will benefit no one... Now, it is possible and it does happen where the monetary supply increases outside of the control of the Federal Reserve and the Treasury, but mostly it is a slow drain on the wealth of the Nation so the people don’t necessarily notice...


24 posted on 09/02/2009 6:15:28 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: freekitty

Thanks...

It’s possible that Mr. Stark actually has a fairly solid grasp of economics and the monetary system in the US. That means he therefore is a total shill for the present banking system, or he has never really answered for himself the question “who really benefits from this system?”...

A moral, just person could see that answer as nothing less than a call to oppose the system with all their might.


25 posted on 09/02/2009 6:21:19 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

Mr. Stark will never be voted out of office. If being a wealthy arrogant butt-hole of an idiot was an impediment to public office in a heavily Democratic district, it wouldn’t have taken only the Grim Reaper to dislodge Ted Kennedy.

BTW, remember the media outrage when Cheney told Leahy to F himself? Wonder when we’re going to hear that about Fortney’s comment.


26 posted on 09/02/2009 6:23:00 PM PDT by JusPasenThru (Never let a good crisis go to waste.)
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To: cliniclinical
I don’t want to argue with you,

Just as Stark chose not too.

Whats next you telling me to get the ____ out too?

27 posted on 09/02/2009 6:25:23 PM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: cliniclinical

I agree.


28 posted on 09/02/2009 6:27:07 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: sausageseller

No, I won’t be telling you anything like that. I’m just suggesting that this interview failed to focus on the problem, and badgering Mr. Stark with simple questions that don’t make sense even for those in control of the system will not help.

Also, the questioner never takes the time acknowledge an important point that Mr. Stark repeatedly made (but without saying this simply) - Dollars = Debt. Mr. Stark says that the increase in debt is an increase in the wealth of the Nation. This is very true in many ways given our present system.

It would be even better if it was tied to the productive output of the Nation, but it is not, and therefore politicians are free to spend money like, well, criminals because there is no check to their creation of debt (wealth).

I’m telling you in the best way I know how that we are in serious trouble in America right now, and the root cause is almost assuredly tied into the banking system and how our Nation now creates its “wealth”.


29 posted on 09/02/2009 6:34:27 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: Globalist Goon

I can’t believe that Fortney is still in Congress. He is a great argument for term limits.


30 posted on 09/02/2009 6:39:48 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Yes, we disagree - no, we won't shut up - no, we won't quit.)
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To: Globalist Goon

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

What a idiot this stark... raving idiot!


31 posted on 09/02/2009 6:43:49 PM PDT by Principled (Get the capital back! NRST!)
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To: cliniclinical
I would say your premise and his is unworkable because increased debit does not really equal wealth. Increased debt for highway project's is just servicing a decaying asset. Dollars spent on the cash for clunkers is a prime example of investing in a deprecation asset.

Even if you and Stark really believe debt= wealth, the extra debt dollars needed to pay interest to other nations that hold our debt would decrease our wealth.

32 posted on 09/02/2009 6:44:52 PM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: sausageseller

I think he is saying that the politicians are rich with an endless stream of tax dollars, and debt is meaningless because we have to pay it.


33 posted on 09/02/2009 6:48:50 PM PDT by Globalist Goon ("Head down over a saddle.")
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To: cliniclinical
You can monetize the debt, but you create inflation. Or worst, if nobody buys the debt, you eventually create deflation, which will lead to poverty. Just ask those still alive from the Wiemar republic, or Zimbabwe or...

5.56mm

34 posted on 09/02/2009 6:51:25 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: sausageseller

It’s not a belief, it’s a fact.

The Dollars that create our wealth come into existence in a very special way. They are literally created out of thin air by an agreement between the Treasury (Government component) and the Federal Reserve (Quasi-government / Private component). In exchange for an IOU (completely made up) that the Fed “buys” from the Treasury, the Fed prints money for release into circulation to create our Nation’s wealth.

One Dollar owed to the Federal Reserve (our Nation’s “debt”) = One Dollar printed and entered into circulation as “wealth”. Get rid of the debt and you get rid of the wealth.


35 posted on 09/02/2009 6:56:47 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: M Kehoe

Now you are talking about a different type of “debt”. The Fed tries not to monetize this type of debt (sometimes referred to as budget deficits or other shortfalls in money needed to pay for government programs) because of exactly what you wrote. They prefer to slowly bleed us dry.

It’s the politicians who push to monetize this debt because it is so easy to hide their criminal, un-Constitutional behavior behind an endless stream of “free” money...


36 posted on 09/02/2009 7:01:01 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: svcw

Thanks for your heartfelt condolences... ;)


37 posted on 09/02/2009 7:04:02 PM PDT by ExpatGator (Extending logic since 1961.)
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To: Aevery_Freeman
Take a private sector example:

I borrow money to buy a bigger home. I have exchanged some cash, my down-payment, and an intangible, a promise to pay off the loan, for a tangible asset, a nice, big house.

I have not increased my wealth. I may be living in a wealthier manner. I have converted my ability to generate cash in the future, for a tangible asset today.

The problem arises if I cannot pay off that loan, or can do so only by scrimping to such an extent that I end up living a poorer life, bigger home notwithstanding. I should not have borrowed so much money to buy that bigger home.

It's not much different for a nation, or for our federal government. People who lend the money expect to get it back along with the interest, which is supposed to be sufficient to offset the expected decline in the value of the currency. The loan is based on assumptions about the future income and spending of the nation.

Taking the loans does not make our nation wealthier. It is a claim on future income, or our ability to get new loans to pay off the old loans, again based on lenders' assumptions about our future income.

Stark the politician can huff and puff his theories, but it is our nation's creditors, those who hold our debt and hold our currency, who determine the outcome of the argument.
38 posted on 09/02/2009 7:05:30 PM PDT by kenavi (No legislation longer than the Constitution.)
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To: cliniclinical
From your posts, I know you probably know this, the Fed is buying "Agency," paper now. Just like Kalifornia issuing "script," it's all the same.

And yes, you are correct, it's all unconstitutional.

In my not so humble opinion, the excrement is going to hit the oscillator in the next two or three quarters, and it won't be pretty.

5.56mm

39 posted on 09/02/2009 7:11:32 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Globalist Goon

What an arrogant gasbag! Stands to reason he’s from Kalifornia...


40 posted on 09/02/2009 7:18:02 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: M Kehoe

We’re about at the logical end of the road on this deal...

Next steps are going to be pretty bold intrusions into people’s private lives, and corresponding reductions in freedom.

Buckle up ;)


41 posted on 09/02/2009 7:19:06 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: cliniclinical

“The Dollars that create our wealth come into existence in a very special way. ....Get rid of the debt and you get rid of the wealth.”

I’m not an economic expert - but what is barter if not an exchange of “wealth” outside government debt? If so, then in a sense a nation’s “wealth” exists outside of the government’s debt.


42 posted on 09/02/2009 7:34:51 PM PDT by loungeSerf (Truth-In-Legislation Amendment)
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To: loungeSerf

Hmmm... Not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say, but each Dollar that we use as a uniform medium of exchange in this country was created out of thin air by a transaction between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury.

In a sense (and in reality), on a balance sheet somewhere there exists a debit (or our Nation’s debt) offset by a credit (a dollar). The government and the private sector then use this Dollar as a medium of exchange or barter.

Under our current banking system, if we were to pay off the Federal Reserve with our Dollars to get rid of this debt, then we would have no more Dollars.

We do pay interest on this service to the Federal Reserve, essentially and almost permanently enslaving us to this banking system, slowly draining the wealth created in this Nation by the productive actions of its citizens...


43 posted on 09/02/2009 7:45:08 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: M Kehoe

I agree the excrement will hit the fan in the future but I don’t think enough people really understand the danger we face. We might be able to maintain this illusion for a few more years or even a decade but the end is certain as long as we keep the entitlements.

As a poster above stated..... people buy debt with an expectation that the return will be a profit over inflation. I am not an economist but it appears to me this is a certain disaster and the only way out of it will be to kill the programs. I don’t see either party doing this any time soon. The entitlements will eventually dwarf all other debt in our nation.

Anyone else think our economy will enter an endless cycle that will eventually destroy our dollar? I know some think it will be deflation. I still think it will be inflation when they cannot sell debt. I think they will print endless money to prop up the entitlements. Either way, we are screwed.

I am very angry for my children who will suffer the most for the sins of those who came before them. This is not what America stands for is it?


44 posted on 09/02/2009 7:45:49 PM PDT by volunbeer (Dear heaven.... we really need President Reagan again!)
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To: loungeSerf

And hence why the Founding Fathers and others repeatedly warned us of the perils of the central banking concept (along with fiat currency and fractional lending)...

We are about to pay a steep price for failing to heed their warnings. So steep that we may lose the very Freedoms that separated this Nation from all others before it.


45 posted on 09/02/2009 7:51:32 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: volunbeer

It’s more than the entitlements, it’s the very foundation and core of the financial system that needs replacing. Entitlements are enabled by the system.

The problem is generational no matter which direction it heads - either we will ween people off the teat of the government and begin production in earnest, or we will collapse into a Nation of servants to a powerful few.


46 posted on 09/02/2009 7:55:12 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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To: cliniclinical

I’m just saying that with barter you theoretically don’t need any currency. But as a practical matter currency is necessary because transmitting information has been so inefficient.

However, as bartering systems get more and more sophisticated and information needed to match barterers becomes more available more quickly I can see a time where the need for currency becomes much less. Hopefully, the role of the gov’t and the Fed becomes less needed as well.

Maybe I misunderstood the discussion but with direct barter it seems that a nation’s wealth is actually greater than the sum of its currency issued. The gov’t requires barter exchanges to report the transactions at what it deems “fair market price” or in terms of currency. It the transaction is not reported to the gov’t the value of the transaction is not part of the “balance sheet” you mention.


47 posted on 09/02/2009 8:07:14 PM PDT by loungeSerf (Truth-In-Legislation Amendment)
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To: Globalist Goon
Stark believes, "the more we owe, the wealthier we are."

Can anybody tell me who elected this idiot to the House, so I can extend my "congratulations" to his District!

"Congratulations" dictionary delivered upon request!

48 posted on 09/02/2009 8:19:40 PM PDT by danmar (Life is hard enough, even harder if you're stupid! John Wayne)
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To: cliniclinical

I don’t disagree it’s the whole system. I just wrote this on the thread about Who’s rooting for the economy to tank again. It was in response to a bit of a different question but related to your point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2330870/posts

__________

It is the immediate movement of money that is the focus instead of the long term creation of wealth. Instead of low inflation - steady growth that benefits everyone our investment system seems geared towards bubbles. It can be a short term bubble or a long term bubble like tech stocks or real estate. They are all still bubbles and a small number of people can make big money at the expense of those not in the game.

Even our government runs like this now. It’s all about the four year cycle of elections is’nt it? It does not fit well with what I learned in school decades ago.... the principle of interest and long term growth. If you are connected and in the game you can make big money. If you are just the average Joe like me with a 401k you have to pray the bubble is inflated when you retire. You can’t make much on interest at the bank anymore when interest rates are so low because of inflation.

Those on the inside get rich (like Congress, bankers (including the Fed), and the other money changers and brokers on Wall Street. Those of us who play by the rules and think long term are left to luck. Just ask someone who had to retire recently compared to someone who retired at the top of the bubbles.

______________

However, in terms of our public debt (gov’t) I firmly believe the entitlements are beyond our comprehension. I think social security and medicaid/medicare will wreck us because they are absolutely tied to our currency when the government can print money to continue to prop up the unsustainable. As I said on the other thread, there are a small number of people who benefit at the expense of the rest of us. I agree that we have a very flawed system at almost every level.

We constantly (and rightly so) debate the waste of millions and billions in our government but the entitlements are trillions. That was my point.... on a ledger sheet it’s all very small and insignificant in comparison to the monsters that I believe will destroy the dollar.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am trying hard to educate myself so that I can do what I can to protect my family and prepare for the future. Like everyone else, I have opinions, but I know that I have much to learn.


49 posted on 09/02/2009 8:38:21 PM PDT by volunbeer (Dear heaven.... we really need President Reagan again!)
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To: loungeSerf

True barter would be best, maybe for local economies and more of a community approach than our present system, but the problem is you want some way to value a bottle of beer in Atlanta nearly the same as Seattle.

A uniform currency makes it all happen. If that currency is tied to productive output only, then growth is controlled by the ability to increase production. Our currency has a different set of controls, though, and the whim of the politician seems to be taking the lead as the reason we are seeing such outrageous debt.

I see what you are saying now... I think currency as we know it (dollars and such) will eventually turn into fluctuating “credits” in a system of complex barter. You can keep track of your credits in any manner of electronic storage and retrieval, but others will have access to your credits and therefore direct control over many facets of your life regardless of your will.

Your idea presupposes a positive outcome for Freedom and a reasonable central leadership. I wish I could share that view, but I think we are going to learn a hard, and possibly crippling lesson in the US.


50 posted on 09/02/2009 9:02:53 PM PDT by cliniclinical (space for rent)
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