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Controlling Children's Minds
Townhall.com ^ | Septmber 5, 2009 | Ken Klukoski

Posted on 09/05/2009 5:05:18 AM PDT by Kaslin

Most people have now heard that President Obama is going to address America’s school children on September 8. He’ll be speaking to them directly, without their parents there to serve as a filter.

Taken with an outrageous situation unfolding in New Hampshire, where a home-schooling mother has been ordered to put her daughter in public school because the daughter is too outspoken in her Christian beliefs, a terrifying truth emerges: If you can force a child into government schools, you can control that child’s mind

On Tuesday, around the nation, millions of children will be in a setting where they’re expected to accept what adults tell them, and where they are required to obey.

Many teachers will carry out White House instructions (now officially modified) to give writing topics to their students. The original theme: How can I help President Obama? Children are also encouraged to read books about Obama, and even kindergarteners will be asked, “Why is it important that we listen to the president?”

Meanwhile, a new video is circulating entitled “I Pledge,” wherein popular celebrities lend their voices, saying “I pledge” this and that. While some of those pledges are harmless or even helpful, and others silly, some carry a far-left message.

The most disturbing part is when one speaker says, “I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama.” In case you missed that, toward the end actress Demi Moore adds, “I pledge to be a servant to our president.”

Oh my word.

No citizen in a free country pledges to be a servant of the president. We pledge our allegiance to the flag and to the republic for which it stands, never to the president. He is our servant, not the other way around.

This is the kind of adoration given to dictatorial leaders in totalitarian regimes, unlike in America, where it’s our civic duty to question our leaders and hold them accountable.

And what is the most disturbing fact about this video? It’s being shown in some public schools.

For those who think they can simply keep their children out of government schools, there is an unfolding story that every parent should know. In New Hampshire, a family court judge has ordered a divorced mother, Brenda Voydatch, to place her home-schooled 10-year-old daughter in a public school. The girl’s academics are excellent, but the non-custodial father sought a court order to force her into public school.

Why? Because the court order expresses the judge’s concern that the daughter shares “her mother’s rigidity on questions of faith.” In other words, the girl is a devout, evangelical Christian. The court wrote that she must be exposed to “multiple systems of belief,” and so must attend a secular school.

Where, evidently, she will watch Barack Obama and write papers about how to help the president advance his leftist agenda.

To be fair, it must be noted that the divorced parents agreed to joint decision-making as part of their divorce. This is yet another example of how children all too often pay the price in domestic disputes.

But the court tipped its hand. If this were about meeting a child’s educational needs beyond academics, that might be another discussion. But the court references the girl’s Christian faith, and the mother’s faith, and cites that as a crucial factor in ordering the girl into a secular public school.

The court overstepped its bounds, violating both the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious freedom and the rights of conscience of both the mother and daughter. The Alliance Defense Fund has taken this case to contest the order.

Controlling the learning environment allows you to control a child’s mind. When children are in school at a young and impressionable age, they know that they’re there to learn. They’re told by their parents to listen to the teachers, to do what the teacher says, to trust what they are told. In this environment, children can be taught to believe almost anything. Communist and fascist regimes have taken advantage of this for decades, indoctrinating children to become obedient servants to the government, to adore the head of state and to fanatically follow that leader.

This New Hampshire situation is frightening, especially in the context of public schools being told to channel in Barack Obama.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: New Hampshire
KEYWORDS: 9809; communism; education; lping; obama; obamaschooladdress; schools
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1 posted on 09/05/2009 5:05:18 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

2 posted on 09/05/2009 5:08:41 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (http://www.conservatives4palin.com/)
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To: Kaslin
The original theme: How can I help President Obama? Children are also encouraged to read books about Obama, and even kindergarteners will be asked, “Why is it important that we listen to the president?”

That is why no matter how the White House tries to spin his talk as just telling them to stay in school, it won't fly. His first message was how to "help" him.

3 posted on 09/05/2009 5:10:00 AM PDT by Citizen Soldier (Just got up from Bedroomshire)
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To: Kaslin
On Tuesday, around the nation, millions of children will be in a setting where they’re expected to accept what adults tell them, and where they are required to obey

On Tuesday, in my classroom, twenty five children will be in a setting where they're expected to illustrate and label the position of the earth in conjunction with the sun during the four seasons.

4 posted on 09/05/2009 5:11:11 AM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: Citizen Soldier

My question is how long will it be until all patriotic and God loving Americans will pull their kids out of the government indoctrination centers and teach them at home?


5 posted on 09/05/2009 5:15:40 AM PDT by Gordon Pym
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To: Kaslin

George H. W. Bush talked to students apparently in 1991, which of course the White House is now using as a defense. Does anyone know how long GHW Bush talked for? From what I hear Obama is to talk to the children for 2 hours (an awnfully long time to tell them to study hard and stay in school).

Any info regarding Bush’s talk would be appreciated.


6 posted on 09/05/2009 5:18:02 AM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Gordon Pym

not soon enough IMHO


7 posted on 09/05/2009 5:20:28 AM PDT by Citizen Soldier (Just got up from Bedroomshire)
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To: Robert DeLong

Two hours of watching his head turn left and right constantly will hypnotize the kids to his bilge.


8 posted on 09/05/2009 5:21:39 AM PDT by Citizen Soldier (Just got up from Bedroomshire)
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To: Robert DeLong

I don’t even remember President Bush 41 talking to school children. I am sure though the theme was not what can you do for President Bush


9 posted on 09/05/2009 5:25:29 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for 0bama: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: Citizen Soldier
“Why is it important that we listen to the president?”

It's not - for grade schoolers. This is what we have to watch out for. The notion that our children must "listen" to the president. For any other president that would be okay. But, to this president that means "obey" - that's the nefarious part of this. This, I think, was meant to be the first of many such "listen" talks. I hope that has been shot down.

10 posted on 09/05/2009 5:37:50 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: raybbr

I agree with you, just highlighting one of the more dangerous quotes in the article.


11 posted on 09/05/2009 5:40:36 AM PDT by Citizen Soldier (Just got up from Bedroomshire)
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To: Kaslin
[If you can force a child into government schools, you can control that child’s mind.]

This is why the Constitution gave men freedom from tyrannical power over all Americans which the democrats have simply abandoned and ignored in their lawlessness and hatred of God, family and country.
The satanist democrat communist mind gives children's lives over to government abuse on the fallacy of benefiting all society as all communist government do. They call it diversity.

12 posted on 09/05/2009 5:45:49 AM PDT by kindred (Facts are a stubborn thing, but people are even more stubborn and will deny facts.)
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To: Kaslin
[“I Pledge,” wherein popular celebrities...]

Worthless communists indoctrinating children's into brown shirts neo nazis for the national socialist (Nazi) agenda of one world government to come under the antichrist.
But woe unto them that corrupt the minds of children, it had been better for them if they had not been born when they suffer the wrath of the God of Israel at their judgment.

13 posted on 09/05/2009 5:50:24 AM PDT by kindred (Facts are a stubborn thing, but people are even more stubborn and will deny facts.)
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To: Kaslin
How would I serve the President???

Why with a fresh green salad and a baked potato


14 posted on 09/05/2009 5:51:19 AM PDT by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: Kaslin

Frankfurt School followers infiltrated public and higher education, the N.E.A. and many church denominations during those years. Those folks brought us sensitivity training and consensus building.

Their Marxist-socialist plan was indoctrination of youth over time, leading to an eventual vote that would turn America hard left. That was 11/4/8.

Search on “Frankfurt School”.


15 posted on 09/05/2009 5:52:44 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: Kaslin

After doing a web search, I found that in October of 1991, President George Bush Sr. gave a talk at a local Washington DC school, Alice Deal Jr. High School. The text of his talk is available onlne as well. In a nutshell, he talked about staying in school and how important an education is for their future. He spoke about making their parents proud, and said that they should not study hard simply because the President of the USA said so but because that is the right thing for them to do. He did not ask them to be his “servant” , lol. The school statistics indicate that it is more than 50% black, 28% white and 14% hispanic. The speech was another in a long, long line of speeches going back more than 40 years given to minority students to tell them to stay in school, yada yada yada.


16 posted on 09/05/2009 5:53:13 AM PDT by sueuprising
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To: Kaslin
[...court tipped its hand. If this were about meeting a child’s educational needs beyond academics,...]

Hells bells, they do not get a good education in the communist public school system, they are indoctrinated into the cruelty of communist methods of destruction with little emphasis on education and edifying.
The liberal communist public school system is just a day care center whose role is propaganda for the totalitarian government the obamination administration is preparing America for.

17 posted on 09/05/2009 5:55:23 AM PDT by kindred (Facts are a stubborn thing, but people are even more stubborn and will deny facts.)
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To: kindred

This mother needs an attorney to appeal the court’s decision. Her 1st amendment rights were violated. I sure wouldn’t sit down and take the judge’s decision. Or, she could move out of that liberal state. That, of course, depends on what type of agreement she has with her ex.


18 posted on 09/05/2009 6:00:37 AM PDT by Catsrus
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To: GraniteStateConservative

This is happening in New Hampshire.


19 posted on 09/05/2009 6:13:17 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Liberal sacred cows make great hamburger)
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To: bamahead

“Meanwhile, a new video is circulating entitled “I Pledge,” wherein popular celebrities lend their voices, saying “I pledge” this and that. While some of those pledges are harmless or even helpful, and others silly, some carry a far-left message.

The most disturbing part is when one speaker says, “I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama.”

Government schools are beyond hope. People need to stop using them.


20 posted on 09/05/2009 6:14:27 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Liberal sacred cows make great hamburger)
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To: metmom; Tired of Taxes; wintertime

Here’s another one, and this will really leave you shaking your heads.


21 posted on 09/05/2009 6:14:57 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Liberal sacred cows make great hamburger)
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To: Kaslin
Taken with an outrageous situation unfolding in New Hampshire, where a home-schooling mother has been ordered to put her daughter in public school because the daughter is too outspoken in her Christian beliefs, a terrifying truth emerges: If you can force a child into government schools, you can control that child’s mind

******************

I'll tell you, anyone who doesn't see this is not looking.

22 posted on 09/05/2009 6:17:13 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Gordon Pym

Even if parents do this, it won’t be for long. There will be new laws forcing all kids to attend public schools to ensure indoctrination by Dear Leader.

I’ll bet the most recent uprising by parents about the speech on 9/8 has set in motion law-writing efforts in the White House. The last thing Hussein wants is kids who are learning to think in home schools or private schools.


23 posted on 09/05/2009 6:25:36 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam (POWER TO THE PEOPLE)
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To: Kaslin

bookmark


24 posted on 09/05/2009 6:27:16 AM PDT by pepperdog (As Israel goes, so goes America!)
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To: KosmicKitty

“Why with a fresh green salad and a baked potato “

Don’t forget the chianti!


25 posted on 09/05/2009 6:27:20 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam (POWER TO THE PEOPLE)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

The schools are already firmly in the control of leftists. Everday they indirectly and directly are confronted with leftits propaganda. A demogoguing Obama would only validate the propaganda.

If this visit ignites a sustainable movement to get the propaganda out of the schools, then this outrage will have some sustainable benefit. If not, then it is just a flash in the pan.


26 posted on 09/05/2009 6:29:46 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Freedom First in 2010)
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To: Clintonfatigued

At the end, Demi Moore says she pledges to be a servant to BO - when previously in the video, they pledged to eliminate slavery...I don’t get it. Isn’t BO their new master?


27 posted on 09/05/2009 6:46:28 AM PDT by TiredofItalltoo (tiredofitalltoo)
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To: TiredofItalltoo

“At the end, Demi Moore says she pledges to be a servant to BO”

Which kinda makes you hope she doesn’t have sole custody of her kids by Bruce Willis.


28 posted on 09/05/2009 6:49:14 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam (POWER TO THE PEOPLE)
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To: TiredofItalltoo; fieldmarshaldj; Impy

I wonder what Demi Moore meant by that? Back in the 90’s, there were rumors about her and Bill Clinton.


29 posted on 09/05/2009 6:53:43 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Liberal sacred cows make great hamburger)
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To: sueuprising
October of 1991, President George Bush Sr. gave a talk at a local Washington DC school

There is NO Comparison!

Obamathug is BEAMING HIS "HELP ME" indoctrination to ALL SCHOOLS complete with HOMEWORK.....

.....GHW Bush made a SPEECH, not a lesson, to ONE SCHOOL and then left...forever...no strings attached.

Obamathug is attempting to take us adults out by our knees by enlisting our children against us.

30 posted on 09/05/2009 7:14:43 AM PDT by SteamShovel (When hope trumps reality, there is no hope at all.)
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To: Clintonfatigued; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; ...
Communist and fascist regimes have taken advantage of this for decades, indoctrinating children to become obedient servants to the government...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
(View past Libertarian pings here)
31 posted on 09/05/2009 7:25:36 AM PDT by bamahead (Avoid self-righteousness like the devil- nothing is so self-blinding. -- B.H. Liddell Hart)
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To: Kaslin

I didn’t either, someone at work told me he did and I did find evidence that he had on the net, but couldn’t find that much.


32 posted on 09/05/2009 7:27:28 AM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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“Barack Obama will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual – uninvolved, uninformed – you have to stay at the seat at the table of democracy with a man like Barack Obama not just on Tuesday but in a year from now, in four years from now, in eight years from now, YOU WILL have to be engaged.” - Michelle Obama at UCLA.
33 posted on 09/05/2009 7:39:33 AM PDT by anglian
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To: MayflowerMadam

And the fava beans!


34 posted on 09/05/2009 7:45:51 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Clintonfatigued

I never cared for her, always thought she was too hard-looking. Can’t fathom what Bruce, let alone that twerp Ashton, see in her (and she’s box office poison, too).


35 posted on 09/05/2009 7:55:07 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: polymuser
Frankfurt School followers infiltrated public and higher education, the N.E.A. and many church denominations during those years. Those folks brought us sensitivity training and consensus building.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The goal of government schooling from its very beginnings in the mid 1800s to the early 1900 was to turn citizens into compliant workers for the fascist state. It is certainly no surprise to me that by the 1930s the American population was fully indoctrinated to accept FDRs sweeping socialist program. It's been a steady slide into socialism from then on.

The moment a child walks into his government school on the first day of pre-K, he learns that government has the power to force his neighbor to pay for a service that the parents want for free! Added to this is that his teachers for 13 years teach him that it is a “right”. Just by attending government schools children are prepared to accept other forms of socialism: retirement benefits, disability, university tuition, food, clothing, housing, medicine, health care, transportation,...even entertainment.

And...Now government schools are even worse. As you point out, they are thoroughly infiltrated from top to bottom with Marxist and their Useful Idiots. Yet...Year after year conservatives send their children into this indoctrination camps and foolishly believe they can be reformed.

Government schools were a socialist dream from the beginning. Socialism can not be reformed.

36 posted on 09/05/2009 8:00:53 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: MayflowerMadam
We may have to resort to something like this

"This is a perfect house for a secret room," said Mr Smit when he came. The ten Boom house was a very old house, with all kinds of unexpected corners and spaces in it.

"The room should be as high up as possible, to give your people time to hide if there is a raid," he said. In fact he chose Corrie's own little room at the top of the house.

He then marked off a space about 75 centimetres from the end wall.

"This is where the false wall will come," he explained. "I cannot make the room any bigger, but several people will be able to get in."

When it was finished, not even Corrie could have guessed that there was anything behind that stained old wall, with a bookcase against it. None of it looked new. Somehow the workmen had made the new wall look a hundred years old! Mr Smit was very pleased with the result.

"They will never find this," he said. "But now you must practice getting your 'guests' in there in the shortest possible time. And they must leave nothing behind in the house to show that they are here. If they are eating a meal, their cups and plates must be hidden. If it is at night, even the mattresses on their beds must be turned over so that there is no 'warm spot' for the Gestapo to find."

By now they had four regular guests and often other members of the underground as well. So there had to be many practices. In the end they managed it in just over a minute.

To give them a little time, one of the guests fixed up an alarm system with a buzzer and several push-buttons, including one near the door of the shop.

Remember, the right to educate your child is a gift from God and to relinquish that right to the false god that is the state is to deny that gift.

37 posted on 09/05/2009 8:02:44 AM PDT by Gordon Pym
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To: Gordon Pym

I love the Corrie ten Boom story! Who’d have thought this would ever be possible in America?


38 posted on 09/05/2009 8:07:14 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam (POWER TO THE PEOPLE)
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To: School of Rational Thought
If this visit ignites a sustainable movement to get the propaganda out of the schools,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please read post #36.

How can you squeeze socialist indoctrination out of government schools that **ARE** from top to bottom and from its core to its outer skin SOCIALIST???? !!!

Government schools **are** socialism! Government schools **are** government in action. Government forces citizens to pay for a service middle class parents want for FREE!

Simply by attending government schools, day after day for 13 years, children are made to feel comfortable with taking money from their neighbor. They are taught day after day to be comfortable with taking a service provided by government workers. And...Foolish teachers ( some who claim to be conservative) teach these children that it is their **right** to take money from their neighbor so they can use a free government service.

Government schools ARE socialism. It is impossible to reform socialism.

Compulsory government schools were not fully accepted by all states until the beginning of the 1900s. To put this in perspective, my mother is 96 and our county high school is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. By the 1930s the American people were sufficiently comfortable with socialism ( likely due to their experience in socialist schools) to vote for FDR. It's been downhill ever since.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get socialist indoctrination out of the government schools! Government schools **are** socialist. They are a daily expression of taking money from your neighbor for a service someone else wants for free!

I am appalled, amazed, and EXASPERATED that so few conservatives grasp this basic idea. Government schools is a daily, minute by minute expression of socialism! Socialism can NOT be reformed! It must be eliminated.

39 posted on 09/05/2009 8:17:29 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Kaslin

President to Address Students
President Obama will deliver a national address to students on September 8 at noon ET. He will challenge students to work hard, set education goals, and take responsibility for their learning.
Fact sheet (updated Sep 4)
Activities for Grades PreK-6 [PDF, 64K]
Activities for Grades 7-12 [PDF, 108K]
http://www.ed.gov/index.jhtml


40 posted on 09/05/2009 8:24:06 AM PDT by anglian
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To: SteamShovel

Of course there is no comparison. Obama considers himself the icon of a new age, and wants children to see that as well. It is scary indeed. However, what is more frightening is the legions of his minions who are on board with him. Will the majority of American people rebel? Who knows. I am still wondering who exactly voted for this guy?


41 posted on 09/05/2009 8:32:03 AM PDT by sueuprising
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To: wintertime
It is IMPOSSIBLE to get socialist indoctrination out of the government schools! Government schools **are** socialist. They are a daily expression of taking money from your neighbor for a service someone else wants for free!

I am appalled, amazed, and EXASPERATED that so few conservatives grasp this basic idea. Government schools is a daily, minute by minute expression of socialism! Socialism can NOT be reformed! It must be eliminated.

Another thing those who believe in Conservatism need to understand is that most local governments are funded by a means that is wholly inconsistent with freedom and property rights.

The property tax is based on the false belief that one who owns property has a responsibility to pay a portion of the value of that property to the town for the "common good" when the truth of the matter is that the property is not truly owned by that individual but for the right to occupy the property an annual rent is paid to the town. This, even though the so called owner has purchased the property, insures and maintains the property and has liability issues if someone should be injured on that property. If this rent is not paid the property will be taken from that individual and be given to a tenant that will pay this rent.

There are no property rights where a property tax exists

42 posted on 09/05/2009 8:34:25 AM PDT by Gordon Pym
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To: Gordon Pym

There are no property rights where a property tax exists
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

AMEN!

Our county just opened a $70 MILLION dollar high school, and the final bill still isn’t completely tabulated and paid. Our property taxes were increased 100% last year.

We don’t “own” our property. We are literally **renters**! Our landlord is the government! And...Behind every property tax bill stand government schools with armies of government workers waiting to be paid, and armed police more than willing to force the money out of the citizen. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)

This government school is the **most** expensive ever built in the history of our state.


43 posted on 09/05/2009 8:43:10 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Kaslin

The ex-Weatherman is now a radical educator with influence.

The next time Obama—the candidate who purports to be our next “education president”—discusses education on the campaign trail, it would be nice to hear what he thinks of his Hyde Park neighbor’s vision for turning the nation’s schools into left-wing indoctrination centers. http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html


44 posted on 09/05/2009 9:05:39 AM PDT by anglian
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To: polymuser
Right on Frankfurt, but it goes deeper. The Humanist Manifesto in the 1930s, John Dewey, the Darwinists, and 19th-century secular humanists and socialists. It has been a long history of attempting to use schools for statism and social engineering.
45 posted on 09/05/2009 10:59:27 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Kaslin
On Tuesday, around the nation, millions of children will be in a setting where they’re expected to accept what adults tell them, and where they are required to obey.

It's weird that they are pledging to obey a man who has 3.5 years left in office and isn't guaranteed a 2nd term (as none are), rather than allegiance to our nation or community.

Basically pitching to the chul-drun ideas they pitched to the adults, that the adults, even supporters, rejected. And counting on the children's obedience.

46 posted on 09/05/2009 11:22:08 AM PDT by fortunecookie (Please pray for Anna, age 7, who waits for a new kidney.)
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To: Kaslin

I am in NH and they plan to play Obama’s lecture to our children Live at 12:00. I am considering keeping my son (11) home from school that day although the school is taping the speech and let us know that it may be played “at a later date.” :(


47 posted on 09/06/2009 7:13:12 AM PDT by wndycndy (WE ALL MUST FIGHT TO RETAIN OUR RIGHTS AGAINST LIBERAL IDEOLOGY)
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To: wndycndy

Sometimes we need to teach children about certain dangers at an age younger than we hoped necessary. Whether it’s candy, charm, or propaganda, the threat will always exist.


48 posted on 09/06/2009 7:23:18 AM PDT by Gene Eric
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To: Gene Eric

Okay, how do you suggest we turn this situation into a “educational moment”? My son is aware of our feelings about Barack Hussein Obama...and FoxNews is the only news channel our family ever watches...but I am not above thinking that at 11 years of age my son is beyond the influence of this silver tongued devil and the majority of the school board, teachers, etc.,


49 posted on 09/06/2009 7:28:27 AM PDT by wndycndy (WE ALL MUST FIGHT TO RETAIN OUR RIGHTS AGAINST LIBERAL IDEOLOGY)
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To: wndycndy

I think that I would ask to be present in the classroom when and if the Obama speech is presented and ask the teacher if you can speak to the class after the speech. Tell the kids that it is ok, and even right to listen to the President, but to also question what he is saying. Children should be encouraged to respect authority figures, like the President, but they owe allegiance to the country, not to any politician. They need to be taught to respect themselves first, they owe it to themselves to become self responsible, good citizens. They don’t owe any politician, anything.


50 posted on 09/06/2009 7:38:20 AM PDT by Eva (union motto - Aim for mediocrity, it's only fair.)
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