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Next Step As Obamacare Goes Nuclear
HumanEvents.com ^ | 10/16/2009 | Connie Hair

Posted on 10/16/2009 8:23:13 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama

The House of Representatives yesterday set into motion the nuclear option for H.R. 3200 that would make it possible for the Senate to pass government-run health care with only 51 votes.

House Ways & Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) held the mandatory hearing yesterday to pass the formal notification in the form of a letter to the Budget Committee saying H.R. 3200 -- the main House Obamacare bill which was the subject of all the town hall rage in August -- has met all requirements to pass as a “budget reconciliation” measure.

Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), the top Republican on the House Ways & Means Committee, spoke with HUMAN EVENTS yesterday about events at the hearing and maneuvers by House Democrats to give their Senate comrades the opportunity to shut down debate on the bill in the Senate with 51 votes instead of the required 60.

“Under the rules, they had to have a hearing in committee in order to be able to position themselves to move through a process called reconciliation,” Camp said.  “They had to send the bill to the Budget Committee to do that.”

The notification is in the form of a letter certifying that the Ways & Means Committee has met the requirements set forth in the budget bill.

“Attached to the letter would be the bill,” Camp said.  “So this sends the bill to the Budget Committee to vote it out.  They’re setting up the nuclear option, not having any Republican votes for this bill.  They’re setting up that process.”

“That is an amendable document,” Camp continued.  “It’s an amendable process. There’s an opportunity to have amendments and have debate. They shut that completely down.”

The notification letter passed out of the Ways & Means Committee on a straight party line vote. No debate was allowed, and no amendments. Rangel told Camp that he would not have preferred to do it this way, but leadership -- i.e., Speaker Pelosi -- forced his hand.  

“We had let them know we were offering amendments and we had heard no problem with that until we got there today,” Camp said.  “Chairman Rangel said leadership made him do it, but he did it, not the leadership.”

This was the final opportunity for debate and amendments to the bill on a committee level.  The Budget Committee will simply vote to pass the bill out with an up or down vote that would certify that the bill has met the reconciliation requirements.

“It’s supposed to only be bills that impact the deficit,” Camp added.  “And what they’ve done is said this bill will save a billion dollars. That’s what we were ordered under the budget resolution to do.  They’ll fulfill that marker, but they’ll use that obviously to spend a lot more.”

The bill being certified for “reconciliation” is the Ways & Means version of H.R. 3200 that was passed out of committee before the August break, and before it was read aloud at town hall meetings across the country and blasted by voters across the country.

It contains all of the horrors previously exposed:  federal funding of abortion, coverage for illegal aliens, comparative effectiveness, healthcare rationing, deep cuts to Medicare.  Everything the American people overwhelmingly reject.

“Since the time we voted on this bill until today, we’ve had new issues develop, we’ve had new scores from the Congressional Budget Office which is the non-partisan expert agency that reviews our legislation,” Camp said.  “We felt it was important to talk about the issues.  We’ve had some new developments, new information.”  

“Let’s have 72 hours to read the bill and have the bill available,” Camp continued.  “That didn’t get any certain discussion today.  Let’s make sure members of Congress are part of any health care bill that passes.  That didn’t get any debate today.  Let’s make sure that we do not have non-citizens here illegally getting government funded healthcare.  Let’s make sure we don’t use tax dollars to fund and pay for abortion.  We didn’t get to vote on that today.”

Reconciliation is a parliamentary process that was created for use solely on the reduction of spending bills in order to reduce the deficit.  Spending bills must originate in the House, and when passing the budget, the full House can include language in the budget bill to a specific committee instructing them to reduce spending by a specific amount in order to reduce the deficit.  

Having learned from the 1993 Hillarycare debacle when the American people utterly rejected the notion of the government takeover of health care, House Democrats placed reconciliation language into the 2010 budget to facilitate passage of the government takeover of health care with Obamacare through budget reconciliation.  In the case of H.R. 3200, the reconciliation instruction was to reduce the cost of the health care bill by $1 billion -- a bill that by some estimates will cost taxpayers a minimum of $1.6 trillion.

“This is after August when the American people clearly weighed in and said, ‘Hey, hold up.  We want to be part of this.  We want to have some more openness,’” Camp said.  “I think they feel the less people know the better; that they, the majority, are better off because they don’t have to explain.  People don’t know what it is they’re really doing.  We won’t find out until it’s actually done.”

Since it has now cleared the Ways and Means Committee (fulfilling the $1 billion reconciliation requirement), H.R. 3200 will go to the Budget Committee where they will do the same thing that was done today in Ways & Means.  They will agree on a straight party line vote that the bill has met the reconciliation requirements.
 
The bill then goes to Pelosi and the Rules Committee where Pelosi will do the same thing Sen. Harry Reid is doing with the two Senate bills right now:  Pelosi will merge the three House versions of H.R. 3200 together into whatever she wants it to be, then she will schedule it for a floor vote.
 
H.R. 3200 could see a floor vote in the next two weeks, likely no later than the first week of November if Democrats believe they have the votes for passage.  If the bill does pass a full House vote, and that’s a big “if” given the deep divides over the issues among Democrats, the bill would then be sent over to the Senate.

There are still bumps in the road for passage in the Senate with 51 votes, placing the undue burden for passage of H.R. 3200 through the Senate by reconciliation on rulings from the Senate parliamentarian.

Stay tuned.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 0bama; 0bamaisfailing; donttaxmykids; donttreadonme; gop2010; idiocracy; keepthechange; obamacare; palin2012; takebackamerica; tanstaafl; time2partyagain; truthmatters0
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1 posted on 10/16/2009 8:23:13 AM PDT by 2nd amendment mama
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Next stop a dictatorship?


2 posted on 10/16/2009 8:26:44 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Worse than we could have imagined.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

What have Democrats previously said about Reconciliation :

Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND):

“Once you’ve unleashed reconciliation, you can’t get it back in the barn, and it could be used for lots of different things that are completely unintended at this moment. People need to think about that very carefully.” CongressNow, 4/21/09

“I don’t think this was the purpose for which reconciliation was originally desed. There are many problems that it creates in trying to write substantive legislation. So I would much prefer that we not have reconciliation instruction in this resolution.” RollCall, 4/21/09

“Reconciliation was never intended for this purpose [health care reform], and it doesn’t work well…It was never intended for this purpose, and I think there would be a lot of unintended consequences.” RollCall, 4/21/09

“Reconciliation was designed for deficit reduction. The place where I would agree with the Senator is, I don’t believe reconciliation was ever intended to write major substantive legislation.” Senate floor statement on FY 2010 Budget, 3/31/09

“Our distinguished Parliamentarian has said, if you try to write major legislation in reconciliation, you will be left with Swiss cheese. So I hope people are thinking about that. I know there are attractive features of reconciliation …..I don’t think we should do it for substantive legislation that is really not deficit reduction legislation.” Senate floor statement on FY 2010 Budget, 3/30/09

Senate President Pro Tempore Robert Byrd (D-WV):

“I oppose using the budget reconciliation process to pass health care reform and climate change legislation. Such a proposal would olate the intent and spirit of the budget process and do serious injury to the Constitutional role of the Senate.” Dear Colleague letter, 4/2/09

“As one of the authors of the reconciliation process, I can tell you that…reconciliation was intended to adjust revenue and spending levels in order to reduce deficits…it was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime, and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system.” Dear Colleague letter, 4/2/09

“I am one of the authors of the reconciliation process. Its purpose is to adjust revenue and spending levels in order to reduce deficits. It was not designed to cut taxes. It was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime, and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system. The ironclad parliamentary rules are stacked against a partisan minority, and also against dissenting ews within the majority caucus. It is such a dangerous process that in the 1980s, the then-Republican majority and then-Democratic minority adopted language, now codified as the Byrd Rule, intended to prohibit extraneous matter from being attached to these fast-track measures. The budget reconciliation process will not air dissenting ews about health and climate legislation. It will not allow for feedback from the people or amendments that might improve the original proposals.” Senate floor statement on FY 2010 Budget, 4/1/09

“I understand the White House and congressional leadership want to enact their legislative agenda. I support a lot of that agenda, but I hope it will not require using the reconciliation process. Again, I commend the chairman of the Budget Committee for excluding reconciliation instructions, and look forward to working with him to ensure those instructions are not included in conference.” Senate floor statement on FY 2010 Budget, 4/1/09

Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT)

“Under reconciliation, the Senate is not the Senate; the Senate is a different institution.” Senate floor statement, April 5, 2001

“I’ve not totally ruled it out…I am doing everything I can to prevent us from going down that road.” Senate Finance Committee hearing, February 25, 2009

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI)

[Reconciliation] is an abuse of the process.” From 2003, as cited in The Hill on April 23, 2009

“I have strongly opposed past efforts to use reconciliation…it wasn’t appropriate then. It isn’t appropriate now.” Senate floor statement, April 2, 2009

“There are some features of this resolution with which I take exception, most notably the use of reconciliation as a tool to expedite health care reform. The arguments over the use of reconciliation are familiar to this body. Sadly, a tool intended to streamline the painful process of deficit reduction has been used to clear a path for major policy changes that have, at best, only a passing relationship to reducing the budget deficit.” Senate floor statement, 4/29/2009

“Health care reform is long overdue, and I look forward to the Senate finally acting on an issue that is so important to my constituents. But let’s not kid ourselves. It is no more appropriate to use reconciliation as a hammer to push through health care reform under regular procedures than it is to use it directly to enact those reforms. Both are abuses. Both undermine its original intent. Both inte even greater abuses in the future.” Senate floor statement, 4/29/2009

Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)

“Today, we are being asked to turn our backs on Senate history by adding language to this budget resolution which will make it difficult for the Senate to fully debate.” Senate floor statement, April 5, 2001

Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)

“Reconciliation was designed to help Congress pass a large package of measures to reduce the deficit, not to be used to resolve one major policy issue.” Senate floor statement, March 16, 2005

Senator Byrd

“I was one of the authors of the legislation that created the budget reconciliation process in 1974, and I am certain that putting health-care reform and climate change legislation on a freight train through Congress is an outrage that must be resisted.” (“The End of Bipartisanship For Obama’s Big Initiatives?” The Washington Post, 3/22/09)

“The budget reconciliation process will not air dissenting views about health and climate legislation. It will not allow for feedback from the people or amendments that might improve the original proposals.” (Floor statement on FY 2010 Budget, April 1, 2009)

http://budget.senate.gov/republican/pressarchive/PressRecon.pdf


3 posted on 10/16/2009 8:27:40 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: 2nd amendment mama

It will pass and we will do nothing. Maybe a little bitching but that is all. But then again, the politicians know this and it doesn’t worry them a bit. Once it is implemented, they they will get their revenge on the naysayers.


4 posted on 10/16/2009 8:28:57 AM PDT by sport
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To: 2nd amendment mama

4th Amendment.
Use it.
Socialized health care is impossible without seizing private medical records without warrants.


5 posted on 10/16/2009 8:29:11 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Mr. Obama, I will not join your plantation.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Anotehr March on Washington by millions of people is needed.


6 posted on 10/16/2009 8:29:43 AM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Anotehr March on Washington by millions of people is needed.


7 posted on 10/16/2009 8:29:51 AM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: Para-Ord.45

I’ve heard an awful lot of threatening bluster on how the Democrats are going to ram this bill through with various measures. I’m really not buying this. I think that we have a lot of scared congress critters who are trying to talk big.

Let’s talk about the Public Option. The radicals in the House are all for it while the Blue Dogs are supposedly not. So first, the House has to agree on it. Then the Senate, as far as we can tell will deliver a bill without a public option, or at least a watered down version of it. How can any one ram through a bill when they can’t agree on any of the details.

In terms of using Budget Reconciliation or the Nuclear Option. The Wikipedia article and a recent WSJ article make it clear that such an action would strip the bill of any items that did not have a direct impact on costs or revenues. This would leave such a gaping hole in the bill that it would never pass that way.

In sum, I challenge any one to believe this bluster. My prediction: the lack of agreement between the two legislative bodies will lead to a stalemate and no final passage, though I am not currently enthused enough to put money on this. I wonder what the Iowa markets could say about the likelihood of health care legislation?


8 posted on 10/16/2009 8:30:04 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Coup de tat, Chicago-politico style.

That one of the biggest crooks in Congress, the tax cheat Rangel, should grease the wheels is not surprising. He just played his stay-out-of-jail card with BO’s inJustice Dept.


9 posted on 10/16/2009 8:30:30 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Does this shock anyone?

The same group of jackasses waved the flag and sang "God bless America" on Sept 11th 2001. Shortly after they were siding with the lunatic fringe and supporting the enemies of America.

10 posted on 10/16/2009 8:31:11 AM PDT by frogjerk (Obama Administration: Security thru Absurdity)
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To: luvbach1

There has got to be a way to stop this crap.

We should all stop filing our income tax. Seems like money talks in this world.


11 posted on 10/16/2009 8:31:55 AM PDT by New Yawk Minute
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To: 2nd amendment mama

A GOP majority should use reconciliation to repeal Obamacare and possibly a number of other Democrat programs that are helping to destroy this country.


12 posted on 10/16/2009 8:32:15 AM PDT by dr_who
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To: 2nd amendment mama

My sister, a nurse, and her whole idiot family voted for this.


13 posted on 10/16/2009 8:33:16 AM PDT by OldBlondBabe
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To: sport

We have fought it. The TEA parties, letter-writing campaigns, and more. The opposition to this bill has been extremely vocal and wide-spread.


14 posted on 10/16/2009 8:33:46 AM PDT by Military family member (GO Colts!!)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

This should surprise no one. The rats don’t care what the voters think because with help from acorn and jessie’s rainbow push groups they will keep getting elected. This is why the legislation making it legal to register and vote on the same day is so dangerous. You can be assured the buses will be going from district to district taking people to vote multiple times.


15 posted on 10/16/2009 8:34:01 AM PDT by MissEdie (America went to the polls on 11-4-08 and all we got was a socialist thug and a dottering old fool.)
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To: Fractal Trader; All

“I’ve heard an awful lot of threatening bluster on how the Democrats are going to ram this bill through with various measures.”

THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME....
They have just 18 days left to pass this nightmare. That’s what is driving all of this.

If Dems lose BOTH New Jersey and Virginia, the moderate Democrats will flee Obama’s agenda like roaches exposed to the light.


16 posted on 10/16/2009 8:34:38 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Trust but Verify

Yes, the first did so much good derailing HR 3200.


17 posted on 10/16/2009 8:34:45 AM PDT by Bob J ("For every 1000 hacking at the branches of evil, one strikes at it's root.")
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Once the government controls a third of what was formerly the private economy, it is all over but the shouting. This seems inevitable to me. It isn’t accidental that Hugo Chavez looked at Obama and liked what he saw. Obama Pelosi and Reid are following in the footsteps of Marx, Engles, Kant, Hegel, Rousseau, Lenin, Trotsky, Sartre, Marcuse, Weber, et. al..
18 posted on 10/16/2009 8:36:07 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: luvbach1

Nope. The next stop is the rounding up and putting their political enemies in camps to be liquidated at their leisure.

The dictatorship was established November 4, 2008.


19 posted on 10/16/2009 8:36:12 AM PDT by sport
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Dearest Olympia,

You’re off the hook for the moment, because your fascist friends don’t need the Baucus bill *you* let out of the Finance Committee. Now, though, please vote with our pitiful thirty-nine other Republican Senators. Many of your friends will be in trouble next November — if they make it to next November.

Sincerely,

America


20 posted on 10/16/2009 8:37:08 AM PDT by JohnQ1 (Pray for peace, prepare for war.)
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To: OldBlondBabe

Msny people cant see past the end of their noses. You have to wonder if they have a fully functional brain.

What I think is, most people for this plan, dont know enough about it. They are busy with their day to day lives, work, raising kids, having problems...they just manage to hear the blurbs on the car radio. I know this, because I used to be one of them. Only..something, last july made me take notice, and I cant even recall what that was.

A little net searching brought me not only information on healthcare reform, but a whole slew of information of things going on in washington, that I knew nothing about.

Its unfortunate..but, many people vote this way, too. They know nothing about the person they are voting for.

These people had better wake up.

Thru all of this, I sometimes feel, if it wouldnt be so devistating for the rest of us..they should pass their stinking reform. The people who support it..deserve it.


21 posted on 10/16/2009 8:38:11 AM PDT by New Yawk Minute
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To: dr_who
A GOP majority should use reconciliation to repeal Obamacare and possibly a number of other Democrat programs that are helping to destroy this country.

A GOP majority? Not likely for a while again. There's too many people RINO hunting and talking about third parties. And don't think the Democrats won't encourage more of that.

22 posted on 10/16/2009 8:38:48 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: ctdonath2
Socialized health care is impossible without seizing private medical records without warrants.

My problem is who will stop it. King Obama and his corrupt communists machine will tell us to go to He!!. I'm afraid that the American people are still ignorant as to what America has become and it will get worst.

23 posted on 10/16/2009 8:39:05 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: tcrlaf

There is now hardly a chance for the dem not to win in NJ. Corzine is ahead.


24 posted on 10/16/2009 8:39:51 AM PDT by New Yawk Minute
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To: Trust but Verify

I agree - I was thinking about this yesterday. The day they vote would it not be cool if there were MORE people outside the capitol, screaming NO YOU WON’T!


25 posted on 10/16/2009 8:41:19 AM PDT by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
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To: New Yawk Minute

I.O.U.’s!! Do as California did before they do it to us. Put any taxes due in escrow and send them an IOU


26 posted on 10/16/2009 8:42:02 AM PDT by halfright (My presidents picture is in the dictionary, next to the word, "rectum".)
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To: tcrlaf
If Dems lose BOTH New Jersey and Virginia, the moderate Democrats will flee Obama’s agenda like roaches exposed to the light.

I was unaware of the timing for these elections, but...I think you are correct about this. Elections MATTER!

27 posted on 10/16/2009 8:43:17 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Obamacare is just a step in the Zero Solution, and if we continue to resist, the step where he has to eliminate 20 or 30 million Americans will come.


28 posted on 10/16/2009 8:43:32 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch

You can get the entire american population out there chanting with signs and they will still do whatever the hell they want. They feel they were voted in and they can do as they please. Pelosi even stated this, since they wont the election.

What will stop it is if lightning strikes the capitol while they are all in it. Anybody know any good rain dances?


29 posted on 10/16/2009 8:43:50 AM PDT by New Yawk Minute
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To: OldBlondBabe

Please tell me your sister is now having buyer’s remorse.


30 posted on 10/16/2009 8:44:36 AM PDT by Josa
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To: Military family member
Didn't impress them did it?

What impresses them is people taking to the streets and breaking things.

Why do you think that they are careful not to do anything to set the muslims, blacks, or communists off? Because they know that would take to the streets in a heartbeat and there would be riots.

The politicians in Washington D.C. hold us in lower contempt than the Officials of the Crown held the colonists before the Revolutionary War.

The current politicians have no conscience, no principals, low morals, and bad character. One cannot negotiate or reason with individuals such as these. Draw your own conclusions.

31 posted on 10/16/2009 8:47:36 AM PDT by sport
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Is anyone else wondering why the Democrats voted to let Old Charlie keep his job last week?

This was set up months ago, and if they had taken Rangel down from being committee head they wouldnt have gotten away with it.


32 posted on 10/16/2009 8:49:14 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: OldBlondBabe

My in-laws also voted for, and still support, barry. They claim to be born-again Christians. My mother-in-law once publicly berrated me for watching the movie Bruce Almighty. Said it was sacreligious and trash; she wouldn’t watch it.

Umm......she’s certainly lost the moral high-ground by continuing to support the most pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, anti-American, infanticide supporting POTUS EVER. And next time she tries to rake me over the coals
about the “splinter in my eye,” I’m just going to have
to point out that big ol’ log in her eye.


33 posted on 10/16/2009 8:49:15 AM PDT by Josa
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To: ctdonath2
4th Amendment. Use it. Socialized health care is impossible without seizing private medical records without warrants.

Good point. I think this will be our only defense if this travesty is passed. Take it to court and find it unconstitutional - which it clearly is.

34 posted on 10/16/2009 8:50:43 AM PDT by fwdude (It is not the liberals who will destroy this country, but the "moderates.")
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To: luvbach1

Next stop a dictatorship?

Maybe our next stop should be the nuclear option on the Senate and Congress!


35 posted on 10/16/2009 8:51:04 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: Bitsy

Best bet: buy ammo.

I think this one will, if passed in the indicated manner, start the shooting portion of the plan.


36 posted on 10/16/2009 8:59:35 AM PDT by benewton
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To: 2nd amendment mama

tells me they’ve concluded they can’t get cloture. Joe Lieberman must have told them to go pound salt. Blanche Lincoln must be scared witless. And Sheetz Byrd may not even be alive at this point (would you be shocked to learn he passed away weeks ago and the Dims were sitting on the news?)

Of course, never let a little thing like that stand in the way of taking over 1/6 of the economy.

Hey, Graham and McCain....how’s that Gang of 14 thing working out for you??


37 posted on 10/16/2009 9:04:28 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: New Yawk Minute

“You can get the entire american population out there chanting with signs and they will still do whatever the hell they want. They feel they were voted in and they can do as they please. Pelosi even stated this, since they wont the election.”

Of course they feel this way. Had we won last November we would feel the same way.
For 8 years the left screamed that GWB was a dictator, that free elections in America were gone forever. The left claims their protests of the war in Iraq were ignored by the Bush administartion, the left was sure the Patriot Act would be used to round up liberals and squash political dissent and oposition. Despite all the squealing and gnashinig of teeth from the left none of that ever happened. So now it’s our turn to squeal and gnash our teeth.
America survived FDR, LBJ and Jimmy Carter. We’ll survive BHO as well.


38 posted on 10/16/2009 9:05:20 AM PDT by snarkybob (')
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To: New Yawk Minute

>>> There has got to be a way to stop this crap. We should all stop filing our income tax. Seems like money talks in this world.

I think the next step is the state legislatures.

I do believe that some states have already passed anti-Obamacare legislation, pretty much claiming states rights over federal authority to implement any form of health care reform nationwide.

What needs to happen is a wave of these state laws that declare exemption from Obamacare for residents of their particular state. This will of course force the issue to the Supreme Court which should find the federal law unconstitutional.


39 posted on 10/16/2009 9:08:18 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: sport

“The next stop is the rounding up and putting their political enemies in camps to be liquidated at their leisure.”

Not going to happen as long as I draw breath.

There are many many many more like me.

I will not be a good little Dhemmi! I promise.


40 posted on 10/16/2009 9:10:19 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.)
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To: sport
That is a separate issue. Clearly the Democrats are out to pas this bill regardless of what others say. Given that attitude, what else could any of the rest of us do?

I know they may not have been impressed, but to say that nothing was done is to treat the 2 to 3 million who went to Washington the same way the Democrats and MSM did.

41 posted on 10/16/2009 9:10:46 AM PDT by Military family member (GO Colts!!)
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To: benewton

Not sure that is would, but I think Cap & Trade would.

At least in the Oil Producing Region.

If it comes it will be a State action, not individuals.

Someone uncork his hidden history, it is time for Obozo to Exit Stage Left.

There can be no recovery until he is out of office.


42 posted on 10/16/2009 9:13:02 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.)
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To: ctdonath2; 2nd amendment mama; Just mythoughts; maggief; GOPJ; Condor51; AuntB; ...
Reference 4th Amendment: Socialized health care is impossible without seizing private medical records----the 4th prohibits seizure without warrants.

The Constitution is meaningless to the present govt. We ain't seen nuttin' yet. Ohaha’s got BIG plans, much much BIGGER PLANS for us. Ohaha told the N/Orleans crowd: "I'm not tired. I'm just getting started."

Once govt gets control of medical care, all the defining, controlling features of socialist govt can be introduced, one by one.

PASTE THIS ON YOUR BATHROOM MIRROR AND MEMORIZE IT . "Medicine is the keystone of the arch of the socialist state.” Vladimir Lenin.

===========================================

Obama-Soros Health Crimes
Canada Free Press | 10/14/2009 | Joy Tiz
FR Posted Wednesday, October 14, 2009 by jazminerose

Most of Obama’s stated plans for America are indistinguishable from those of George Soros. As the left forces nationalized health care on us, we may want to consider Soros’s Project on Death. Soros is a leading promoter of the assisted suicide movement. He papers over it with tripe about compassion; in reality, the project is a push for palliative care rather than treatment for gravely ill patients. As always, it’s all about the money: (Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...

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NOTE: The Emanuel brothers--Rahm and Zeke---are in charge of the healthcare trillions.


On the plus side, Dr Zeke was spit-shining his penny loafers when the subject of "death panels" surfaced.

43 posted on 10/16/2009 9:15:55 AM PDT by Liz
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To: luvbach1
Next stop a dictatorship?

Being necessary for the security of a FREE STATE, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

We are deviating well away from a free state these days...

44 posted on 10/16/2009 9:17:42 AM PDT by meyer ("I went to Europe to buy the Olympics for Chicago and all I got was this silly Nobel")
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To: luvbach1
Next stop a dictatorship?

In case no one has noticed, the coup has already taken place.

it started in earnest last fall and continued since - the Republicans have been SHUT OUT of meetings, of hearings, of any input - literally SHUT OUT as if they weren't even in DC.

I realize that whichever party has the majority has the advantage - but never before has that meant they - and they alone - write the bills, decide which one shall even come to the floor - and how, have "private" meetings without anyone from the other party, etc etc.

WE think they're getting ready for a coup?

I think it has already happened.

Buckle your seat belts, it's gonna be a rough ride -

and find a way to grow and store food - but let NO ONE, other than family, know you have any food storage, because they have laws now - in the 'security bills - that would, in time of emergency - allow the gendarmes to come into your home and search for stored food - it would no longer be 'stored' but "hoarded" and you would be a criminal with fines/jail. (Enemy of the people.)

Think on this: They have commandeered the auto industry, the banking industry, the college loan must now ALL be from the gov't, and now the health bill- which, among things like fines and jail, allows them to have access to ALL you financial records - banking, etc.

Now, one tiny step further and everyone is under there iron thumb.

The trucking industry - which NO ONE is saying a word about - is in dire straights. Over a quarter million drivers have lost their jobs in the last year and thousands of trucking co.s have gone bankrupt.

Shipping is down dramatically, shipping containers are lying still by the thousands here and abroad.

Combine that with the fact that your local supermarket has ONE days supply for it's customer base. ONE DAY.

Now remember a top tenet of Marxist strategy to rule a people: CONTROL THE FOOD, CONTROL THE PEOPLE.

Any day, they could take over the trucking industry. Then you will be dependent on them for your very daily food. The masses will behave.

Put in some emergency rations - dried goods like beans, peas, rice, dried soups/veggies are a good start as they will last for years and take up less space than other foods like canned goods.

The LDS (Mormon) Church, decades ago, warned it's people to practice storage - 2 years supply, as well as have your own water supply.

You can find advice from them on how to gather/store/use and rotate storage foods.

Few of us here today could ever envision what is happening in this country today. Many, who've been around as long as I have = and had a REAL education in school, complete with history, have known this was the goal of the socialists/marxists in this country for decades - but few could believe it none would listen.

They're listening now - Pray to God it isn't too late.

In the meantime - get your head around this - a silent coup has already taken place in DC.

Batten down your hatches = and get some supplies in...and put in gardens come spring - even it means using your lawn - make it "English" with a combination of vegetable and flowers - serves two purposes, makes it pretty and flowers attack beneficial insects, like lady bugs and bees.

And PRAY like you've never prayed before. )Even the scientists now admit that prayer really works - they're even beginning to understand the why of it = and they call it "Noetic Science."

Those who believe what Jesus taught - but few ever 'got' - know how and why it works.

45 posted on 10/16/2009 9:21:08 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" LINCOLN)
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To: sport

I concur 100 percent with what you posted. Thanks for telling it like it is.


46 posted on 10/16/2009 9:21:13 AM PDT by hot4plasma
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To: Safrguns

I thought the same way as you do, for a while. I believe it was arizona, who was having some vote, on excuding thier state from healthcare reform. I thought this was a great idea, until I began to think about what the reform would actually do.

Tell me what you think of my thoughts on this..and whether or not states opting out..will matter or not.

If that HR3200 type bill is passed..employers will be fined for not providing insurance. Most americans get their insurance thru work.

So, lets say the fine..is less than what the employer is shelling out. What do you think he will do? If the fine is less..he will drop his employees insurance. Under that plan, you would then have to buy govt insurance.

If your state opts out..what happens? You cant have ANY insurance?

You are forced to buy the govts.

This is why I think, opting out, ultimately wont matter. They have us over a barrel.


47 posted on 10/16/2009 9:22:00 AM PDT by New Yawk Minute
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To: sport

Sorry.
The current administration WANTS conservatives to do something silly and violent. They would love an excuse to crack down on us.


48 posted on 10/16/2009 9:25:40 AM PDT by Little Ray (Obama is a kamikaze president aimed at the heart of this Republic.)
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To: Military family member

My hat is off to everyone that went. At one time that would have been effective. But now we are dealing with evil power worshipping individuals. Who, as the Bible says, “Regard neither God or man.”


49 posted on 10/16/2009 9:29:24 AM PDT by sport
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To: Little Ray

“The current administration WANTS conservatives to do something silly and violent. They would love an excuse to crack down on us.”

BINGO!!!!!! That’s all they need, and they are banking on it.

We are being played like the fiddles of Nero..


50 posted on 10/16/2009 9:31:34 AM PDT by hot4plasma
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