Posted on 10/26/2009 7:51:02 AM PDT by Scythian
I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here
http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php
but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon.
I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?
SPAMMING
811, 812, 813,814
it’s ridiculous to bash Beck over this...who cars if he is an actual atheist or Jewish or agnostic or Catholic or Pentecost or Baptist...southern of course...anything but Muzzie really.....he’s effective.
we’ve had relative quasi or non Christians do well on the right...Paine, Franklin, Goldwater..sorta
why beat up on someone on our side....who’s doing good.
I’m grateful to Beck
ROTFL! I'm sure it has escaped your notice that the mention of the 60,000 plus missionaries sent out every year by the mormon church is without exception a response to whining from you mormons about the freedom of a handful of FReepers to post rebuttals to your organization's propaganda.
Wishful thinking DungeonMaster
some religions don’t spell out or say God name because many use the name disrepectfully, some religions do not talk about Mother because other take delight in being disrespectful.
I am happy to defend my Faith, but if it the argument is all over the place and is not direct nor honest (Mormons are the devil), then it is pointless.
I DO love it when mormons compare their doctrine that is fabricated by their "prophet" to the holy words of Christ and Joseph Smith's person to that of the Savior. The arrogance is SO attractive!
They were quite offended, just as you are. Interesting.
Yeah, it is pretty "offensive" to Christians.
As far as Making folks read your threads, most don’t anymore.
Hmmm..that must be why we see more and more new names of FReepers joining in to agree with us.
except when you hi-jack other’s which is becoming more & more frequent, kind of like kicking the door in. Interesting as well.
LOL...Most mormon threads are posted by non-mormons...that should be obvious to you. "Kicking the door in"...interesting comparison from one whose religion depends on missionaries entering doors by subterfuge.
....I really can’t imagine anyone interpreting the scriptures to say that one should be angry & hostile as you & the cabal seem to be on a daily basis.....
It's pretty obvious where the "anger and hostility" abide, when your posts consist of whining and accusations instead of presenting factual, sourced responses to ours.
There’s a lot of happiness to be had outside of your “work” here.
There's a lot of happiness IN doing the work of battling false doctrine and preventing others from being led into eternal error.
Get to work greyfoxx39 because there is 6 billion people on this planet who are in error.
But wait, it is the Mormons that are especially wrong! Think of the economy of wasting your times on the Mormons who are very small in size while at the same time you are ignoring the other 6 billion people are in grave error.
But I guess it is flattering. You must think that Mormons are the most wrong, dangerous sect on the planet. Hmmm...I guess you find those terrorist to be more correct than Mormons. Ok, that is you point of view..
So you're saying that 60,000 teen "evangelist/elders" go door to door but don't talk about theology. That's a good one.
I agree, and it's really ironic that the "family" church forbids parents, children, siblings and other relatives from attending the wedding of a couple unless they are "worthy" by mormon standards.
John, 2:1-2, "On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding."....Jesus and Mary, not to mention the Disciples, wouldn't be allowed to witness an LDS temple wedding without obtaining a "Temple Recommend" by submitting to and answering the following questions.
Newest Temple Recommend questions of the LDS church.
Must be answered succesfully in order to obtain a "temple recommend" in order to take part in rituals that will supposedly allow you to progress towards LDS "exaltation".
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5 Do you live the law of chastity?
6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10 Are you a full-tithe payer?
11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
Muslims and Hindus and other false religions don't claim to be Christians. It's those who do make that claim that get the attention of real Christians.
“There’s a lot of happiness IN doing the work of battling false doctrine and preventing others from being led into eternal error.”
I can tell by all the happiness that exudes from all your posts. Does bitterness = happiness to you?
“Yeah, it is pretty “offensive” to Christians.”
You state that quite definitively, & yet there seem to be a lot of Christians on this thread that aren’t offended. They may disagree w/ our doctrines, but their not offended.
Despite your vitriolic attitude, I’m un-offendable. I truly feel bad for you that you’re so easily offendable. It can’t be too happy for you to be offended all the time. Perhaps that’s why you’re seemingly so bitter. Most Christians aren’t offended by LDS as indicated by this thread. Perhaps you could have some substantive discussions w/ them to find out why.
How much of that did they steal from the Masons?
First, yes we are all free to disagree on matters of faith. That is not the issue. Faith does not create simple facts and simple facts can be proven.
You can believe that there is a McDonald's on the corner of 5th and main, that you know in your heart is there and open for business, but when we get there and find an empty lot we both will have issues getting a Big Mac. That is not a matter of opinion or faith but raw truth.
You are right faith is faith, but God also gave us minds to think and reason, and indeed Paul and others make many references to faith AND reason essentially walking hand and hand.
The Bible is a reasonable good history as well as an article of faith. Indeed so thorough is God's word that in the end reason and logic can deal with everything in it short of the very last question, the one true point that we have to take on faith and this is the question of whether the actions within and the person of Christ were Divine in nature or not. God left no lose ends or fantasy worlds for his detractors to deal with unless the are willing to look foolish.
One cannot question the existence of Rome or Cesar, I can right now even as we speak arrange a trip to the holy land. Just a couple of years ago Jewish Scholars in Israel uncovered the corner stone of Herod's place. All the real and tangible people and places of the Bible either have left us direct records or have acted and reacted as we would expect people in those places to do.
None of these things are matters of faith or opinion for they were real and did exist in time and history.
Sadly the lands and peoples of the BOM cannot even remotely stand against such scrutiny. Even those friendly and partial to the LDS cause cannot bring anything credible to the table, much less those seeking simple scientific inquiry with no interest in the subject at a personal level.
If things that should be tangible cannot stand in such regard then what do we say about the arguments of faith that are intertwined and emanate from the same narratives.
The second point I take away from you answer is in the last paragraph. You say that earnest and studious Mormons understand the issues of Mormonism the best. That simply cutting and pasting what should be straight forward quotes is not enough. I will not do so then, and the doctrine of the LDS is evidence here on FR many times anyways.
So there are a couple of things I can take from that and I am not sure exactly what tack to use. I guess the first would be to say, ok, then as an earnest and studious Mormon you should have no issue in being straight forward about the simplest of Mormon doctrine, that the simplest of ideas should not require deflection or obfuscation.
So from that I will take it that you believe and have no issue answering in the affirmative that Jesus, according to LDS doctrine as well as the Bible, is a deity, a god, and that god the father is separate and distinct from Jesus, that as Smith himself has stated from day one of the faith, that they are “two personages”.
I also will take it that your earnest answer to the simple question of how many gods there are is at least two as of this counting. Note I made no previsions of saying how many your worship or what world they are in charge of, but make a simple counting of the individuals that exist that have godly powers in their own right.
I also take it that you believe that those male Mormons who have successfully made the grade, so to speak, to reach Celestial Glory, that have been sealed in Celestial marriage and been exalted will become gods as well, as stated in the Doctrine and Covenants Section 132, paragraph 20. We have to assume at least a couple have made it that far (be sad if none had been successful to date, right?) so our god count rises even more.
I take it that as an earnest Mormon who follows letter of the Mormon scripture and has studied on these things knows that they are true and right and correct. Therefore you should have no problem when I state that by the very purist and true definition of polytheism, the one that states it is the worship of OR belief in more than one god, that the LDS is a polytheistic religion.
I also take it that you believe that Joseph Smith has a hand in the path to glory along side Christ himself because Brigham Young, a prophet of god, as well as others, has stated that no man may attain heaven without Smith's certification, a fact and quote posted on FR many times.
I take it you hold no issue with any and all the direct postings made here that come DIRCETLY from LDS dogma, any accompanying “editorializing” by the ”antis” not withstanding.
I am certain you do.
BTW one last note. You make a minor leap in logic in your last paragraph when you say critics of the LDS sole source of intellectual curiosity is to simply cut and past dogma and LDS “scripture”. There are pages and pages of material from the LDS, it takes at least some intellectual effort to find the specific lines oft used here.
excellent post
Equally valid...
Equally valid...
Equally valid...
And with that another disappears back into the darkness with nothing meaningful to provide here.
Still lives in the realm of hope of course.
I wonder if the challenge will be taken.
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